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fantassin
03-06-2004, 12:23 PM
I was really happy about the fact that the air had cleared considerably in the past weeks on that site thanks to the positive actions of the site admin; that was of course counting without budanski's old battle-horse, the hatred of anything French.

Interestingly, recent events in Haïti have once again proved, if necessary, that the armed forces of those two countries work well together.



Christopher P. Pinet, Editor in Chief, French Review FEBRUARY 2004.


In a column published in the New York Times of 18 September 2003, Thomas L. Friedman provides ample evidence that francophobia is still alive and well and that it will not simply fade away through benign neglect. His ill-informed and biased opening remarks only add fuel to the fire of those who would bash the French no matter what: “France is not just our annoying ally. It is not just our jealous rival. France is becoming our enemy.” Friedman uses inflated rhetoric to belittle and undermine France’s call for the United Nations to play a greater role in so-called post-war Iraq, a position that the Germans and Russians, among many other countries, also support. He concludes from his own tautology that “France wants America to fail in Iraq,” a reckless and inflammatory statement that has no basis in fact, but serves his rhetorical purposes. Friedman’s further statements about how radical Muslim groups in France would be energized by an American defeat in Iraq confirm that he understands little about the French, including French Muslims, and apparently is not interested in actually informing himself about French realities. Ironically, Friedman concludes that the United States would actually benefit from French help in Iraq.

At a time when we need to heal the rift between France and the United States by having both sides listen to each other (something the two governments may be doing better than the media give them credit for) and to other countries of the world, irresponsible and bombastic journalism is definitely not the answer—nor is the continued exploitation of stereotypes and simplistic, anti-democratic arguments.

In an article published in the USA TODAY of 25 September 2003, Barbara Slain makes the point that President Chirac certainly does not hate America though France does not always agree with American policies. In fact, Chirac knows the United States and lived here in the 1950s. During his stay he operated a forklift at the Anheuser-Busch brewery in St. Louis and studied at Harvard, where he worked as a soda jerk at a Howard Johnson’s in Cambridge. And yes, he had an American girlfriend. He also speaks fluent English and expressed surprise at what he called the “very emotional, almost irrational reactions” against France in the American news media, reports Slain. On the other hand, Chirac also claims to feel at ease with President Bush whom “he has always felt was warm and friendly.” The same article points to polls that show a “slight diminution of anti-French feeling” as Americans have begun to question “the wisdom of the Iraq invasion and the difficulties the United States is having in securing the peace.” A USA TODAY/CNN/GALLUP POLL from mid-September of 2003, which is cited immediately after Slain’s article, found that 66% of Americans regard France as an ally or a friend, an increase of 8 percentage points since April. 6% see France as an enemy, compared with 9% after the ouster of Saddam Hussein. A quarter (25%) of Americans see France as “unfriendly,” compared with 4% three years ago. The poll had a range of error of +/-3 percentage points. It is the 25% figure which is troubling, especially in light of the cordial reception most Americans who traveled to France in the summer of 2003 received.

It seems to me that one reason for the high “unfriendly” characterization is once again the negative stereotypes perpetuated not only by the popular press and so-called serious press, but also by talk show hosts such as Jay Leno and David Letterman, who jumped on the French-bashing bandwagon during the winter and spring of 2003. Millions of Americans watch these personalities and parrot their cheap shots about so-called French cowardice during the world wars without ever considering the millions of brave French who died or were wounded during World Wars I and II. Simplistic and hateful comments like these should be challenged and were by Molly Ivins, a syndicated columnist. But they show how easy it is for the “big lie” to gain ground through the air waves. By the same token, there was only minimal coverage when French soldiers spirited 100 Americans to safety in Liberia in the late spring.

One probing analysis of the reasons for such stereotypes, and there are many reasons, was offered by Nina Bernstein in an article of 2 October 2003 which appeared in the New York Times. Bernstein says that despite France and Germany taking the same position on the Bush administration’s policies in Iraq, “France’s president got the cold shoulder and columnists’ heated denunciations.” For Americans, she says, “World War II permanently inoculated Germans against ‘the wimp factor’ and branded the French indelibly as sissies.” So, the image of France as the country of “haute couture” and perfume, not to mention free love and ****** pleasures unimagined on this side of the Atlantic, and of Germany as the home of heavy industry and technological mastery, continues to win out in spite of France’s position as the world’s fourth largest economy, the manufacturer of the TGV (the fastest train in the world), one of the world’s top two exporters of defense products, the fourth largest producer of automobiles (all Mack trucks are manufactured by Renault) , and the world’s third largest military power. The list goes on and on, and readers should consult Richard Shryock’s article, “French: The Most Practical Foreign Language,” in the September 2003 issue of the National Bulletin for other noteworthy and stereotype-breaking information.

In her article Bernstein goes on to show how, since the days of FDR, the French have been portrayed through the use of negative feminine traits, a tactic which has served to undermine the legitimacy of French points of view on the international scene. For example, in 1953 Life magazine “likened the French government to ‘a big can-can chorus.’” She cites Frank Costigliola’s book, France and the United States: The Cold Alliance since World War II, as the source for this and other good examples of such stereotyping. Bernstein also quotes Ann Douglas, author of The Feminization of American Culture, who states that “The constant need to denigrate France—and feminization has always been the way to go—is because France has always maintained a separate voice.” Ultimately, as many of us have argued, our relation to France is one of attraction and repulsion—attraction to the romance of France and good living, but repulsion for a country that can have its cake and eat it too, and disagree with us if it chooses to.

On the positive side, a poll by TV5 USA published in the September issue of the National Bulletin of September 2003 shows that 25% of all American households are Francophiles, which translates into 60 million people, including six million adult Francophones. The survey was conducted in May 2003 among 4,000 U.S. adults 18+ years of age. Francophiles were defined as “people who are very interested in various aspects of French culture and/or travel to visit countries where French is spoken, and/or were a student of French language while in school, and/or embrace the French culture.”

One can see that Americans are divided in how they view the French. What we must do as teachers, scholars, and citizens is to continue to point to the facts and history of our two countries to counter the stereotypes that continue to dominate public discourse. This means writing letters to the editor, not to mention radio and television stations; taking issue with negative statements by colleagues in other disciplines or people in our communities who try to denigrate the French by making untrue statements or try to convince our students not to take French, something that has happened far too often in the last year. We must also insist on everyone’s right to an opinion even if differs from ours. That means trying to understand different perspectives and contexts. The right to free speech is a cornerstone of American democracy and should extend to other democratic societies. Though stereotypes will always be with us, we do not have to let them go unchallenged and we must not if we are to bring reason to irrational times.

Christopher P. Pinet
Editor in Chief
French Review

budanski
03-06-2004, 12:27 PM
Trust me, it wasnt because of the fine mods the air cleared up. I just happen to be busy at work... Lets see if I can free up some more time then. ;)

fantassin
03-06-2004, 12:36 PM
Oh, my God !

Bush Calls Chirac to Thank France on Haiti

Tue Mar 2, 2004 11:35 AM ET

PARIS (*******) - President Bush telephoned French President Jacques Chirac Tuesday to hail their countries' cooperation over the Haiti crisis, the latest sign of a gradual thaw in U.S.-French relations.

France and the United States, which fell out last year over Paris's opposition to the U.S.-led Iraq war, led pressure on Haiti President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to step down and have sent troops to restore order after an armed rebellion.

Bush called "to hail the excellent U.S.-French cooperation on Haiti and thank France for its efforts," Chirac spokeswoman Catherine Colonna said, adding that Chirac also expressed his satisfaction about the tight coordination of their diplomacy.

Bilateral U.S.-French relations hit a low last year. Some top U.S. officials asked whether France still considered itself an ally and said it could expect punishment for the way it conducted its anti-war campaign.

Since then France has promised substantial debt relief for Iraq once power has been handed over to a sovereign government and Washington has relented on an initial ban on French firms bidding for major reconstruction contracts there.

Relations are still dogged by differences in areas such as trade, which prompted new European Union sanctions Monday.

Bush has not yet accepted an invitation to attend ceremonies in Normandy this June marking the 60th anniversary of the D-Day landings, but a German official visiting Washington this week said it was clear Bush would go to the high-profile event.

obd
03-06-2004, 01:20 PM
Of course Germany, France and Russia want the UN to go into Iraq. Its because those three are left out on all the money from rebuilding and they hope if the UN goes in then they will have more control and possibly get money. They damn sure know they wont get any if the US remains in control!! Bastards.

KalleBalleSvartSk@lle
03-06-2004, 01:24 PM
Of course Germany, France and Russia want the UN to go into Iraq. Its because those three are left out on all the money from rebuilding and they hope if the UN goes in then they will have more control and possibly get money. They damn sure know they wont get any if the US remains in control!! Bastards.
I don't think they really want UN to get in now unless they get rebuilding contracts. US wants UN to help out, to save some money, that's how things work.

Ratamacue
03-06-2004, 01:34 PM
Of course Germany, France and Russia want the UN to go into Iraq. Its because those three are left out on all the money from rebuilding and they hope if the UN goes in then they will have more control and possibly get money. They damn sure know they wont get any if the US remains in control!! Bastards.

Quiet.

I don't think the UN is the best organization possible. I think that there's too much bickering and not enough backbone in the organization to really get anything accomplished. But I will say that UN involvement in rebuilding Iraq would definitely accelerate things and quite possibly quiet things down with increased numbers of peacekeepers while more US units can focus on eliminating the terrorist threat.

And as I've said before, I don't have any problem with the French people, though I often disagree with their government. Sure, we joke about the French and make fun of them, but the fact is, most people don't have any real problem with them and most of the rest just don't care. I bet things are the same way with the French talking about Americans.

Kilgor
03-06-2004, 05:41 PM
no problem with the french people. Just the government, especially with some very very questionable foreign policy decisions while questioning America on theirs. Very Hypocritical.

fdt
03-06-2004, 06:00 PM
.......... government, especially with some very very questionable foreign policy decisions while questioning America on theirs. Very Hypocritical.http://www.china.org.cn/images/64900.jpghttp://www.china.org.cn/images/64901.jpg

Eiffel Tower Illuminated in Red to Honor China

The Eiffel Tower, one of the great symbols of France, is bathed in scarlet red lights for the first time in its history on Saturday evening and will sparkle red for the next five days in honor of China.

The red color, which symbolizes happiness, joyful festivities and prosperity in the Chinese tradition, is also a color loved by the French people, said Chinese Minister of Culture Sun Jiazheng at the "light-on" ceremony. [..........]

(Xinhua News Agency January 25, 2004)

Kilgor
03-06-2004, 06:07 PM
yes.. prime example.

Try to get support to end the arms embargo and basically get on their knees to please the chinese government.

Many people in france said that gesture just went too far.

fantassin
03-06-2004, 06:28 PM
FYI, it's the year of China in France. There was a Chinese parade in Paris just like there are some in many China towns around the world.

There's been a year of India before and last year was the year of Algeria.

The rest is your interpretations.

Ngati Tumatauenga
03-06-2004, 07:22 PM
I was really happy about the fact that the air had cleared considerably in the past weeks on that site thanks to the positive actions of the site admin; that was of course counting without budanski's old battle-horse, the hatred of anything French.

And of course your above that sort of behaviour aren't you?,




So it is definitly the best choice, especially if it's coming from New Zealand, a country well known for being particularly anti-France which would not have chosen a french system if it could have helped it.

How typically european, critisizing others whilst ignoring your own similar shortcomings.

Kilgor
03-06-2004, 08:12 PM
The rest is your interpretations.

China calls for lifting of arms embargo
( 2004-01-29 11:46) (chinadaily.com.cn)



The European Union's (EU) arms embargo on China should be lifted, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said Thursday.


Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue [newsphoto]
Zhang said the arms embargo was a product of the Cold War era, which hampered cooperation between China and EU members.

"We have noticed that many EU members have adopted positive attitudes towards the lifting of the arms embargo", she said, saying China appreciated the efforts of certain EU members, including France and Germany.

She expressed the hope that the arms embargo would be lifted as soon as possible.

The EU is considering lifting the ban on arms sales to China, the foreign ministers' meeting of EU members and would-be members revealed Monday. The EU Council had opened discussion on the issue and ministers have invited the Permanent Representatives Committee and the Standing Political and Security Committee to examine the issue.

US refutes Chirac's call to end China arms embargo

The Bush Administration does not support France's call for an end to a European Union embargo on arms sales to China, in the latest sign of frosty ties between Paris and Washington, the AFP reported.

French President Jacques Chirac told his Chinese counterpart President Hu Jintao in Paris lately that the 15-year-long embargo,slapped on China after 1989 "makes no more sense today." Chirac said he hoped the ban on Beijing would be scrapped "in the coming months".

However, the U.S. State Department said it viewed bans on arms sales to China by the United States and EU as "complimentary", and did not agree they should be lifted.


Of course.. its got nothing to do with it. :roll:

Kilgor
03-06-2004, 08:36 PM
FRANCE gave Saddam Hussein's regime regular reports on its dealings with US officials, The Sunday Times reported, quoting files it had found in the wreckage of the Iraqi foreign ministry.

The conservative British weekly said the information kept Saddam abreast of every development in US planning and may have helped him to prepare for war.

One report warned of a US "attempt to involve Iraq with terrorism" as "cover for an attack on Iraq", according to The Sunday Times.

Another, dated September 25, 2001, from Naji Sabri, the Iraqi foreign minister, to Saddam's palace, was based on a briefing from the French ambassador in Baghdad and covered talks between presidents Jacques Chirac and US President George W Bush.

Chirac was said to have been told that the US was "100 per cent certain Osama bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks and that the answer of the United States would be decisive".










The report also gave a detailed account of American attitudes towards Saddam amid anxiety in Iraq that the country might soon become a target of US reprisals.

"Information available to the French embassy in Washington suggests that there is no intention on the part of the Americans to attack Iraq, but that matters might change quickly," said one document from folders marked "France 2001" found by The Sunday Times.

Bernard Jenkin, defence spokesman for Britain's opposition Conservative Party, told the paper that the briefings went beyond diplomatic courtesies and pointed to French "duplicitousness".

France came in for sustained attack from Britain's tabloid press in the run-up to and during the Iraq war for opposing early military action against Saddam's regime, with the Sun newspaper notably labelling Chirac a "worm".

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6344726%255E1702,00.html

And you wonder why Americans consider france a enemy ?
Backstabbers.

:-*$

Mr Gently Benevolent
03-06-2004, 08:55 PM
All buildings containing anything of any intelligence value were sealed of by US troops as soon as they entered the capital even the oil ministry had armed guards outside so the thought of journalists scrabbling around looking for juicy documents is a little unbelievable. I can't imagine US troops directing journo's into government buildings and telling them to look but not touch. I don't doubt that newspapers are in possession of documents relating to France's dealings with Iraq but I doubt their validity the whole thing reeked of a smear campaign.

fantassin
03-07-2004, 04:44 AM
From www eubusiness.com

It's easy to point out France while most EU countries would be quite happy trading with China again; it's just like during GW2, most everybody was against it in Europe, but only France and Germany had the balls to voice it.

quote: "Britain, which was at the forefront of the EU arms ban in 1989, appears at least open to lifting the ban"

EU mulls lifting post-Tiananmen arms ban on China

26 January 2004

EU foreign ministers launched talks Monday to lift an arms embargo on China imposed after the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, with France leading calls for a new approach to the emergent trading giant.

France is hosting a visit by Chinese President Hu Jintao this week and has widespread backing for its initiative to end the embargo, diplomats say.
But any decision is months away as the EU tries to work out how to resume arms sales to the communist nation to make sure weapons are not used for internal repression or to threaten Taiwan, sources say.
"We need to take a little more time. There has been progress by the Chinese (but) I am not convinced that we have to decide on that today. We have to wait," Belgian Foreign Minister Louis Michel told reporters.
European officials say they are aware that the United States is against lifting the ban, while some EU countries -- notably Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden -- remain concerned about China's human-rights record.

"We are conscious of the US position, and we want to avoid serious high-profile differences with the US. But it's not the primary factor," said a senior diplomat with the Irish EU presidency.
The embargo was imposed after China in June 1989 sent in tanks to break weeks-long pro-democracy protests in Tiananmen Square in central Beijing, killing hundreds.

"There has been no review of the arms embargo for 15 years and France, supported by many others, thinks it's high time that the EU reappraises the issue," said an EU official.

"China is growing all the time in importance for Europe, and there are safeguards in place to ensure arms sold by the EU do not end up being used for internal repression or to undermine regional stability," he said.
Backers of ending the arms ban say an EU "code of conduct" on arms sales would act as a safety net.

China has been pressing hard for the EU to lift the ban, which Beijing said last month "does not conform with the good momentum in the development of relations between China and Europe".

The EU official underlined the fact that Paris, which was pulling out all the stops to welcome the Chinese president for a state visit from Monday, was the key force behind the push to lift the ban.

"But nobody really is against lifting the embargo. The question is timing, and how arms sales would fit in to the code of conduct," he said.
"There is a real concern about human rights, but let's not forget that we sell weapons to countries with which we do have human-rights concerns, and that's where the code of conduct comes in," he added.
The foreign ministers Monday were holding initial talks, before asking EU diplomats to discuss the issue further and then returning to the matter themselves at their regular monthly meetings.

Britain, which was at the forefront of the EU arms ban in 1989, appears at least open to lifting the ban.

"Our position is that we do accept the need for a review of the arms embargo. We think there probably is an issue about modernizing it," said a British source.

A spokeswoman for the European Commission, the EU's executive arm, echoed the signs of diplomatic movement on the issue. "There does seem to be some shift of mood going on in the council" of EU ministers, she said.

All the rest are normal balderdash rubbish spoon fed to brainwashed individuals by Fox news over the past years.

fdt
03-07-2004, 06:43 AM
"The EU official underlined the fact that Paris, which was pulling out all the stops to welcome the Chinese president for a state visit from Monday, was the key force behind the push to lift the ban."

- It's a simple thinking: "Well, we willl earn a buck while showing US that we don't give f*ck their laments.... that's all it counts now for the polls. If the arms sold to China will eve be used, it won't be French soldiers who will going to die of it... (there is plenty opportunities in the region where those arms may be employed: Korea, Taiwan, Spratly Islands, Tibet.... to mention only those "big" ones). :-*$

fdt
03-07-2004, 06:46 AM
FYI, it's the year of China in France. There was a Chinese parade in Paris just like there are some in many China towns around the world.

There's been a year of India before and last year was the year of Algeria.

The rest is your interpretations.Well, it's a good reason to lift the arms sales embargo. rofl By the way, is Algeria allowed to buy arms in EU?

fantassin
03-07-2004, 06:51 AM
Your problem is that you are isolating France from the rest of the EU; all the EU countries want the ban lifted, just like the UK has asked for the ban on weapons sells to Libya to be lifted.

And yes, many EU countries sell weapons to Algeria to help it in its war against the GIA moslem terrorists.


for those with a short memory:

from the Sikorsky website

Worldwide, S-70 BLACK HAWK helicopter variants are serving, or are on order, with 25 governments -- Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Brazil, Brunei, Chile, Colombia, Egypt, Greece, Hong Kong, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco,

People's Republic of China,

the Philippines, Republic of Korea, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey.

Marmot1
03-07-2004, 07:05 AM
Your problem is that you are isolating France from the rest of the EU; all the EU countries want the ban lifted, just like the UK has asked for the ban on weapons sells to Libya to be lifted.

And yes, many EU countries sell weapons to Algeria to help it in its war against the GIA moslem terrorists.


for those with a short memory:

from the Sikorsky website

Worldwide, S-70 BLACK HAWK helicopter variants are serving, or are on order, with 25 governments -- Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Brazil, Brunei, Chile, Colombia, Egypt, Greece, Hong Kong, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Malaysia, Mexico, Morocco,

People's Republic of China,

the Philippines, Republic of Korea, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey.

Only a few and they were delivered BEFORE 1989 masacre.

Kilgor
03-07-2004, 07:09 AM
Your problem is that you are isolating France from the rest of the EU; all the EU countries want the ban lifted, just like the UK has asked for the ban on weapons sells to Libya to be lifted.


And does the rest of Europe put on pathetic exercisers at brown noseing the chinese government ??

fdt
03-07-2004, 07:22 AM
Your problem is that you are isolating France from the rest of the EU; all the EU countries want the ban lifted, just like the UK has asked for the ban on weapons sells to Libya to be lifted.

Your problem is You haven't noticed the EU countries' foreign ministers reaction to this French proposals... it was far from warm welcome.

EU snubs Paris over arms for China
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard and Philip Delves Broughton
(Filed: 27/01/2004)

A French attempt to lift the European Union arms embargo against China was rejected by ministers yesterday amid concern over Beijing's human rights record and belligerent attitude to Taiwan.

President Jacques Chirac has led the drive to ease sanctions imposed after the Tiananmen Square massacre of students in 1989, hoping to benefit from China's economic growth and draw Asia's rising power into strategic "multipolar" alliance with the EU to counter American hegemony.

But EU foreign ministers meeting in Brussels agreed by 14 to 1 that China's deployment of up to 650 missiles in a war of nerves against Taiwan made it a hazardous moment to lift the arms boycott.

The decision is a blow to Beijing, which has been seeking a strategic partnership with the EU to obtain high-technology weaponry.

The hard line from Brussels came as M Chirac welcomed President Hu Jintao of China for a four-day state visit, shutting out complaints from human rights groups in preparing one of the most lavish receptions France has ever offered a foreign leader.
[......]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/27/warms27.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/27/ixworld.html

The vote was 14:1 .... and You tell us..."Your problem is that you are isolating France from the rest of the EU; all the EU countries want the ban lifted." rofl rofl rofl

fantassin
03-07-2004, 07:28 AM
Now, that's a really interesting "I'll Google you an answer" battle here... if you think ANYBODY is not interested in trading with the PRC, weapons or bubble-gums, then you are the last great idealist.



EU's Solana signals support for lifting China arms embargo
26/01/2004

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana signalled Monday support for those seeking to lift a ban on arms sales to China imposed after the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre.

"If you take the list of countries with whom we have embargos of arms or weapons .. probably China is not in the company it should be," he said, after EU foreign ministers launched talks on a French-led initiative to end the ban.

He noted that China's leadership has changed dramatically since the bloody events of 15 years ago.

"It's a leadership that wants to look forward, (that) doesn't want to be linked to the ideas, to the events that took place a long time ago in relation to Tiananmen," he said.

The embargo was imposed after China in June 1989 sent in tanks to break weeks-long pro-democracy protests in Tiananmen Square in central Beijing, killing hundreds.

France, which is currently hosting a state visit by Chinese President Hu Jintao, has initiated the push for the arms embargo to be lifted. French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin on Monday called it "outdated."

But countries including the Netherlands and Sweden remain reluctant to lift the ban, citing notably China's human-rights record, diplomats say.

EU ministers agreed Monday to refer the issue to technical-level officials, who will carry out a review in coming weeks and months of China's progress in meeting EU concerns.

EU external relations commissioner Chris Patten, the last governor of Hong Kong before it was handed back to China, echoed some of Solana's comments but also underlined continuing concerns about human rights.

"Clearly the situation in China has changed pretty dramatically since 1989, and there is a leadership which represents a new generation in China," he told reporters.

But he asked: "Are we satisfied with the human rights situation in China? The Chinese know that we are not," noting in particular the issue of the death penalty.

"We do recognize progress but there are still matters that concern us," he said, adding that these matters would be examined in more detail by EU experts who will report back to EU ministers in due course.

fdt
03-07-2004, 07:32 AM
.... if youn think ANYBODY is not interested in trading with the PRC, weapons or bubble-gum, then you are the last great idealist.
Who said (not me for sure) that nobody is interested to sale arms to China? Problem is that between interested (on some conditions that China is not willing to meet) and willing... is a long way. And of course google Yourself the dates of You article and mine article. My deals with the outcome, Your is dealing with wishful thinking efforts that were ruined in 14:1 vote against. Please... try to be more careful with such a "details". :cantbeli:

fantassin
03-07-2004, 07:38 AM
...with the French efforts to...to...come on, you can make it...Yes, to LIFT THE EMBARGO! well done son !

Can see the link now? between French efforts and embargo?

Pheeew, that was hard...



:D you must have realized the stupidity of your last post, there's been a lot of editing going on there...

fdt
03-07-2004, 07:43 AM
...with the French efforts to...to...come on, you can make it...Yes, to LIFT THE EMBARGO! well done son !

Can see the link now? between French efforts and embargo?

Pheeew, that was hard...



:D you must have realized the stupidity of your last post, there's been a lot of editing going on there...Short on arguments? I think so if You take such a great joy of mocking the obvious mistake I made in hurry. rofl

fdt
03-07-2004, 07:45 AM
...with the French efforts to...to...come on, you can make it...Yes, to LIFT THE EMBARGO! well done son !
:hug: Daddy!