Somalia '93

[budanski]

http://www.bhd93.com/modules/gallery/albums/somaliapictures/asz.jpg

Guess what unit the guys with the blackout belongs to?

http://www.bhd93.com/modules/gallery/albums/somaliapictures/ark.sized.jpg

SF, ODA 562

http://www.bhd93.com/modules/gallery/albums/somaliapictures/afn.sized.jpg

Shot taken from Super 68 during Mogadishu flyover. Delta operator in picture has retired.

http://www.bhd93.com/modules/gallery/albums/somaliapictures/acs.jpg

[Registration Information]

Those two fellas on the first pic are not who you think they are

[Piccolo]

I've heard there are one or two PJ's in that pic, but I have no idea. I do however, find it hard to believe that a PJ would carry a cut down 870 pump shotgun for CSAR. Just something to think about anyway..

[96B]

Why would PJs be wearing black vests and helmets that look exactly like Delta? Why would PJs even be riding around in a HMMWV?

[hood]

yeah, bhd93.com has a lot of great ones on their site.

[Zach R.]

Doesn't CSAR and PJs wear name tapes,unit patches,etc....Delta doesn't wear name tapes or any other form of ID on thier uniforms.That's one way to identify what unit they're from.

[OzMan]

Well, for the most part, PJ's wear name tapes. There are A TON of pictures of PJs and CCTs not wearing tapes. I think most people fail to realize how high-speed the PJ's and CCT's are when they hear about them. Normally when they hear "Air Force", they automatically think about an F16 or a C130 or something. They are a Special Operations unit, and they work with everyone in the SOF field. Many SEALs, Rangers, and SF "roll over" to USAF to become CCT's, and some of them to be PJ's because of the job diversity. PJ's are (in my opinion) the most elite corps or combat medics anywhere, and maintaining that means going through high speed training and working with all of the SOFs.

It would not be surprised at all if those guys were PJs. It sometimes pisses me off when people see a black vest and a pro-tec from Somalia and they automatically say delta. I think the Rangers and the 10th Mountain were about the only ones there who DIDN'T wear the vests and pro-tecs. ST6 wore them when they were there, Schilling and the CCTs wore them, the PJ's wore them.

Carrying an 870 doesn't really surprise me either. If you have to stabalize someone, and you can't do it on the street, breach a door. It is a lot more efficient if the PJ would do it himself, rather than calling and waiting on a Delta breacher.

And riding in a HMMWV? What the hell does that have to do with anything? the CCTs rolled around in HMMWVs. The SEALs did. Yeah, there was a dedicated CSAR bird available for every mission, and you were guaranteed to find some PJs there, but I wouldn't doubt that there were some on the ground too.

And ID'ing someone by not wearing tapes has nothing to do with it either. SEALs don't wear nametapes, especially ST6.

I'm not sure about you guys, but I wouldn't be surprised if that guy is a PJ.

[96B]

Not to take away any honor or disrespect them, but PJs are simply combat paramedics. They are trained similar to other SOF units as far as jump school, dive school etc but they go through the same exact courses other SOF medics go through, so I dont know if I would say that they are better than any other SF or SOF medic. Also, not that I have exactly talked to everybody that has been in another service SOF or SF group that has switched to PJs, but one can assume they most likely decided they would rather save lives than take lives, not because they could do anything more high speed or secret.

Secondly, I do not know a whole lot about PJs, but I have always associated them with going in my air, hence "para" and rescueing a downed pilot or something, not riding around in hummers with infantry. There may be in fact some or one PJ in that picture, but I for one am suprised that they would be riding around on the ground as if going to a fight. I just never thought or have seen pictures of PJs who are inserted or just ride around on the ground to a fight or on a mission.

I am not one of those people who see a picture of a guy in black or a SOF looking dude and automatically assume he is Delta, but going on the fact that its a picture taken in Somalia in 1993 and the way those guys look, it would be a good guess in this case because I was not aware anybody wore black helmets that look exactly like what Delta wears except ST6 maybe. If I am wrong, please post links to where I can find pictures of it.

[Piccolo]

Semper; SEALs generally use full protec helmets; with the ear holes. Army SF (Delta,etc) and AFSOC wear the half cut type. Also, there were a couple of a CCT's riding in the HMMV convoy in October 3rd/4th, it's mentioned in BHD by Bowden. That, along with the SEALs and Delta (Who had medics themselfs).

Again, I'm no BTDT, but I do really find it hard to believe a PJ would carry a 870 if he was jumping. It's just something to get into the way. After all, their mission dictates they need to carry as little as possible and get in and save someone as quickly as they can. Just my thoughts on it anyway.. I doubt we will ever find much more of the story behind this picture.

[OzMan]

Well, that could be true, but if you remember in the book, there were those 40 lb. medical bags which had to be kicked out the door when the CSAR bird was called in and Wilkinson fast roped out. That would definitely get in the way.

About PJ's only coming from the air, come on. They are trained as combat divers, and in using the Draeger rebreather, and they are proficient in almost every other insertion/extraction method used in the military. I said I believe PJs to be the most elite medical corps because of their training, and the fact that air rescue units were among the most highly decorated in the Vietnam war.

And PJ's have their own mobile ground vehicles, called the RATT. I can't find any pictures to link here right now, but look around for them. I don't believe that the RATT is air drop capable, though I could be wrong.

Maybe the guy with the 870 isn't a PJ, but I still think there is a good possibility of the others being PJs.

[OzMan]

Here's what I could find about the RATT.
Picture:
http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2002/4/air_force_special_ops/images/lg_jeep-lg.jpg
Short description (last paragraph):
http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2002/4/air_force_special_ops/index3.phtml

[Chops]

Weirdly enough I used to know Captain CB Stevens; he's the second in from the left- outstanding fella.

The top photo on the Humvee? Could be ST6/DEVGRU, ISA/TV, PJs, CAG.. who knows? Unless you were there. Nice shot though.

rgds

Chops

[Wolfpack]

the guy in the right of the humve turret, the one whit the green t-shirt, ...i think he looks alot like Gordon or shugart.

Those of ya who have the book take a look. and tell
bye.

Lets remember tah whit task fore ranger were a seal team. since this guys are whit marines they couldný be delta cause officially they arrived later, so could this be seals?

[Piccolo]

Um, what?

The ODA pic is a team of Special Forces sodliers, not Delta. I can tell you that is Not Shugart.

Also, the top pic is taken at the Pakistani stadium on the .4th, so Delta was in country.

[Wolfpack]

ok, no need to get angry dude, I didn´t knew that. thanks for the info.


hey, whats the new helmet mich?

[Piccolo]

No worries, not mad here.

I'm not sure on all the details of the MICH. I know it is better then the standard 'Kpot', or PASGT Kevlar helmet currently issued to most Infantry troops; lighter in weight, and offers more ballistic protection. Apparently all SFG's have them, along with some Marine Recon units, plus Rangers and 82nd Airborne, etc.

[Wolfpack]

looks like you know a hell of it, so let me ask you a few ones man:

why is delta still in the dark, even my 10 yo bro knows about them, the logic says that the most secret you want to keep this unit the more eyes are going fix on it.

i mean whats the problem with that? i bett my left kidney that most of foreing intel services knows as much about delta as the army, so what harm is going to make to tell people that america has the crem of the crop of soldiers?

my other cuestion is why you say : sf = army green berets and not delta?


and a comment i´ve read in the times about former colonel harrel being now a general, that blew delta about operations in irak.

thanks picolo,

[OzMan]

My guess is that Delta will eventually end up like Area 51. Everyone knows about it, and in 1994 Clinton signed 9545, which officially admitted the existance of the base. Time will tell. Delta was created in what year, 1978? And the Groom Lake facility had been there for over 50 years before the government officially admitted it.

[Redford]

I thought Dboys seldom use M60E3, so the super 66 3rd squard is a ranger unit?
What are the man in second photo carry a bow for? hunting deers?

[Piccolo]

Well, in my opinion, it's just the nature of the game. Specops by nature are secret and not so out in the open. Atleast, they should be. It's obvious alot of people know of Delta (Created in '77, btw), but OPSEC and PERSEC is still a major issue. Considering the missions Delta does, and DEVGRU for that matter, it just makes sense that the government doesn't officialy comment on them. I don't think their stance is that they deny they exist, more so that they just don't make it a routine to expose their people to any more danger then they should be.

On your other question; Special Forces is a title that is only reserved (In the US Armed Forces) for the US Army Special Forces, or as they are known "Green Berets". All other Special Operations group are generaly only refered to, simply as Special operations forces/groups. It's semantics really, but thats the gist of the whole thing.

No idea on the General you speak of btw, if you have a link with info please post it.

Redford, thats not a M60E3. Also, no one ever claimed to guys to be SFODD, they are Rangers. Rangers do not use the M60E3 as a SAW, they have the M249. The full size M60, however, was used as full sized squad machine gunner.

[Redford]

I see, it's nfull size M60, so the gunner should be platoon's machinegunner? the squard muchinegunner use M249.
but what the bow for, personnal hobby?

[Redford]

The 19 KIA soliders Somalia '93

Pilla. Dominick

http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_PillaDominick.jpg

Briley. Donovan
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_BrileyDonovan.jpg

Cavaco. James
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_CavacoJames.jpg

Cleveland. William
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_ClevelandWilliam.jpg

Dan. Bush
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_DanBush.jpg

Field. Thomas
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_FieldThomas.jpg

Fillmore. Earl
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_FillmoreEarl.jpg

Houston. Cornell
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_HoustonCornell.jpg

Joyce. Casey
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_JoyceCasey.jpg

Kowalewski.Richard
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_KowalewskiRichard.jpg

Martin. James
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_MartinJames.jpg

Matt. Rierson
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_MattRierson.jpg

Ruiz. Lorenzo
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_RuizLorenzo.jpg

Tim. Martin
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_TimMartin.jpg

Wolcott. Cliff
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_WolcottCliff.jpg

Smith. Jamie
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_SmithJamie.jpg


And 2 Moh owner

GordonGary
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_GordonGary.jpg

ShughartRandy
http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_ShughartRandy.jpg

[Chops]

Redford

He was 562's Weapons Sergeant- personally owned bow I seem to remember. Just a hobby...

rgds

Chops

[AVZ]

@ wolfpack and Piccolo

This is the new MICH - helmet!?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2021&highlight=mich

[Wolfpack]

avz, thanks.

[hood]

hey redford, are those pictures anywhere else? they all seem to say "sonic album" instead of the picture itself...

[CX20]

Hood; yes, I guess anyone can cut and paste images off BHD93.com too. ALL of the Somalia 93 pics on this thread have been on that site for a very long time.

I hate to get involved in childish "Delta" arguments (I leave those for the little kids) but those guys with the black hats in the first photo are Delta, one of the normal soldiers sitting on the Humvee in the pic posted that pic onto the BHD93 website! So despite all the squabbling on this thread, on BHD93 you had official confirmation from the soldier who was there.