Palestinian sniper that killed 9 Israeli soldiers

[Sayeret]

Does anyone know about the Palestinian sniper who killed about 9 Israeli soldiers using a Galil, a CAR-15, m203 and an Lee Enfield?

[Hullebullen]

Did he use all of those guns?

[obd]

yes, I think he used a Lee Enfield or Mauser bolt action. Im pretty sure it was Lee Enfield though. Anyway, he set up an ambush on a checkpoint or some kind of temporary base from what I heard on the news when it happened. He ambushed them making I think 3 or 4 kills before they responded and began looking. I think he changed positions and picked them off as they searched for him. From what I know, he was able to kill 9 soldiers. I actually dont know if he was killed or not. I think he withdrew. I know for sure that his weapon was not taken as the Palestinians proudly showed it on television afte the "incident" but they didnt show the sniper accept for posters all over claiming him a hero which makes me think he went down fighting.......Anyway, Israli troops founf cartridges to match the weapon around the area so no dispute as to what weapon he used....... Some in Israel accused US CIA of training him. I know some Palestinian police/paramilitary were tranined by US at one time but I dont think we trained any snipers. Anybody know if US trained any Palestinians as sniper??? Doubt it though. This guy could have been trained by anybody though. His weapons, the Lee Enfield has long been known as accurate, reliable, hard hitting, and its bolt action is one of the fastest and easiest to use in the world. Superior even to most American designs and German designs of today even though it is several decades old design!!!! Ask most Afghan Mujahideen what they loved most and it wont be the Ak 47 like most people say. It will be the old reliable Lee Enfield. Ask Soviet Spetsnaz which weapon they hated most: It wont be the Ak 47 or even the RPG-7v. They will say the Lee Enfield because its bullet could pierce body armor of the time at long range. Arnt I right Permski-OMON??????

[obd]

Ask any Mujahideen what they feared most and it will be, no contest, the Mi-24 Hind gunship. They feared this even more than Spetsnaz. I read an interesting book by a leading Mujahideen of the time on the resistance and fighitng. When Spetsnaz first entered A-stan in great numbers and began hunting Muj, the Muj were absolutely terrified of them. They felt there was nothing that could handle Spetsnaz and for a time they were worried Spetsnaz would crush the resistance. Yet, alas, this did not happen and eventually the Mujahideen learned to deal with the Spetsnaz and killed many of them, although Spetsnaz remained a constant threat to them and killed many of them as well. Yet, as they learned and adapted to Spetsnaz actions and tactics, the influence of Spetsnaz dropped so that it was not as high nea end as when they were first deployed in numbers...(this does not include Spetsnaz opening of the war by assasinating the Afghan president in Kabul which I still have yet to read good info about and want to find a book on the mission,,,Permski you got any for me buddy??)

In one instance, an entire group of Spetsnaz and Airborne infantry were annihilated, actually it was in same area as Tora Bora where US troops had so much trouble during Operation Anaconda. Either way, the Spetsnaz still killed more than thier fair share of Muj, but after a time the Muj learned that the Spetsnaz wernt the invincible fource that they intially thought and that they could be fought head on and beat under certain circumstance, like when outnumbered severely and in certain terrain where air support was difficult.

Yet one Russian weapon they never learned to deal with until the US Stinger missile changed the war was the Mi 24 Hind. It was formidable. It was armored and virtually impossible to take out with an Ak 47. It could even withstand some punishment from the heavier 12.7 mm systems the Afghans employed where they could. The Mi-24 could simply sit back and punish Muj columns from far beyind range of Ak 47 or even any sniper systems of the time such as SVD Druganov and Lee Enfields etc It could also land something like 8 or 9 troops too, essentially alowing groups of them to pin down Muj, land troops surrounding them, and then wipe them out in place...... The Mi 24 was truly the one thing that made even a brave Muj ready to go to Allah piss his pants at the sound of its rotor blades........Arnt I right Perski-OMON hehehe???? Im sure you tell me Im wrong about Spetsnaz though......err maybe you will.......... repeat, you have any info on Russian Spetsnaz operation to assasinate A-stan leader at begining ofwar??? MAybe you could post it as a topic in General Discussion so more would see it???

[REMOV]

Does anyone know about the Palestinian sniper who killed about 9 Israeli soldiers using a Galil, a CAR-15, m203 and an Lee Enfield?Yes, I've heard about it. 3rd March 2002, at the IDF roadblock north of Ofra, the Palestinian sniper killed 7 soldiers and 3 settlers, 4 other people were hurt.


Source: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=136881&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

10 slain near Ofra; soldier dies in Gaza
(Wed., February 04, 2004 Shvat 12, 5764)
By Ha'aretz Staff

(...) IDF sources reported that a lone Palestinian sniper, probably trained by Force 17 and using an old World War II-era carbine outfitted with a telescopic sight, had taken up a position on a hilltop overlooking a military checkpoint near the settlement of Ofra. From about 50 meters away, the sources said, the gunman had begun cutting down the soldiers at the bottom of the hill.

The 6:40 A.M. attack began on three soldiers who were out in the open. One had gone to check an Israeli car coming from the north, while the other two had waited behind at the checkpoint. An officer and eight more soldiers were in residential quarters near the checkpoint at the time.

The sniper shot single rounds, at a rate that IDF sources said later had been about one shot every 45 seconds. First, he shot at the soldier and the car, killing the driver and the IDF man immediately. He then took aim at the other two soldiers who were outside, killing them instantly too. After stepping out from behind a building, a fourth soldier was wounded in his hand.

Platoon commander Lieutenant David Damlin heard the shooting and left the barrack. He went around the building to the north of the checkpoint and was shot dead when he appeared in the sniper's sights.

At this stage, the medic emerged, looking for wounded. He tried moving around the checkpoint from the south and was shot dead. The remaining soldiers understood that whoever left the barricaded barrack was in danger, so they tried to conduct a battle from there. But they were unable to pinpoint the source of the gunfire.

The soldiers had been told of intelligence reports saying that they might be attacked from the east, where there had been some suspicious movements before the attack began; so they fired toward the eastern hill. But the sniper was on the western one. Indeed, the fact the gunman fired single shots made it even more difficult to identify the source of the shooting and from his commanding position overlooking the checkpoint, the gunman could see everything below, while remaining hidden behind an old olive tree on a terrace above.

The seventh victim was a civilian who arrived from the north. The eighth was the reserve company's sergeant, Avraham Ezra, who arrived on the scene in a patrol jeep after the soldiers at the checkpoint had radioed for help. When Ezra tried to aim at the sniper, he was shot and killed. Some of the soldiers in the jeep with him were also wounded.

The last two victims of the attack were soldiers who arrived in the area in civilian cars. Lieutenant Ariel Hovav, 25, from the settlement of Eli, was due to command a unit of basic trainees in the Paratroop brigade and was on his way to a training session at the brigade HQ. He was shot when he got out of the car to try identifying the source of fire. The tenth victim was a new immigrant from France.

Those killed in the attack were Hovav; reservist Kfir Weiss from Beit Shemesh; Damlin, 29, from Kibbutz Meitzar; Ezra, 38, from Kiryat Bialik; Sergeant Yohai Porat, 26, from Kfar Sava; Sergeant Rafael Levy, 42, from Rishon Lezion; Eran Gad, 24, from Rishon Lezion; Yitzhak Didi of Eli; Sergei Beauturo from Ariel; and Vadim Balbula from Ariel.

The gunman got away after claiming his tenth victim and 25 minutes of shooting, apparently because his weapon gave out. As of dusk, the IDF had not found any evidence to support the theory that there was more than one shooter. The carbine was found, dismantled, though it's not clear if this had been the result of one of the soldiers' bullets or simply because it was old and had given out. There were signs of a telescopic sight, but none was found.

Three people wounded in the Ofra checkpoint attack and 11 wounded in the Saturday night bombing in Jerusalem remained in hospital last night.(...)

[Sirpad]

forget all the BS that flies around this story. the fact is he used an old russian mosin-nagant rifle, and he left behind him a m1 carbine to confuse the IDF.
as far as i know, he was a very well trained sniper - he made several positions to shhot from, and he retreated after achieving the most he could.

the story about the echo around the valley that confused the soldiers (thus responding to the wrong direction) is apparently true.

[Herrmannek]

forget all the BS that flies around this story. the fact is he used an old russian mosin-nagant rifle, and he left behind him a m1 carbine to confuse the IDF.
as far as i know, he was a very well trained sniper - he made several positions to shhot from, and he retreated after achieving the most he could.

the story about the echo around the valley that confused the soldiers (thus responding to the wrong direction) is apparently true.

Why soldiers didn't called choper with some IR device? It sounds like it wasn't quick shotout but longer one including major changes of position by sniper, lots of confiussion etc...If it's not secret what are common countersniper mesures in israeli army. Don't say it's against opsec, but instead of that tell us things with palestinians already know and maybe took counter messures :)?

[obd]

Hey Sirpad, I agree with you that he left behind the carbine to confuse enemy as the carbines bullets didnt match those that killed Israeli troops. But it was not a Moisan Nagant. I saw the television footage of Palestinaians showing off "the rifle" to the media in frontof posters of the man that went up all over the city. If they were telling the truth and showing the rifle he actually used, then it was a old British Lee Enfield.

I havnt heard of any sources saying it was Russian Moisan Nagant although that is certainly possible as examples of that rifle are known to be in hands of Palestians. I have seen direct evidence on TV from Palestinian sources saying it was a Lee Enfield and holding it up. Im curious as to where your info came from saying it was a Moisan Nagant. Im not trying to flame you. It could be that the source I saw was lying for propaganda and they wernt showing the actualy rifle. Id be interested to read sources saying it was the Moisan Nagant................

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

After reading through the posts and looking at articles about the incident I am beginning to think that the carbine left at the lair was probably a back up weapon to be used if compromised. If he was using a bolt gun and acting alone and unsupported he might find the need for something a bit more hard hitting than pistol.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I know that a military bolt action rifle like the .303 SMLE is a very capable weapon in the hands of a competent rifleman.

But I don't know that the Soviet troops were especially bothered by it because I doubt that there were many real marksmen among the mujahadeen.

Maybe a few Red Army veterans of the Afghan war would care to comment on this?

[Marmot1]

I know that a military bolt action rifle like the .303 SMLE is a very capable weapon in the hands of a competent rifleman.

But I don't know that the Soviet troops were especially bothered by it because I doubt that there were many real marksmen among the mujahadeen.

Maybe a few Red Army veterans of the Afghan war would care to comment on this?

Well having a rifle is very old tradition n Afghanistan - for hunting ,as a social status indicator etc. So most of them were very well trained in action bolt rifles especialy lee enfeld... Remember afghans are not a peaceful nation, just read history - about couple of british military expeditions that were slaughtered by afghans in XIX and at the beginning of XX century.

[pretorian669]

He was Irish.
Contract work.
We're still looking for him...
The weapons found were those of the decoy who was palestinian.(was!)
One of my friends was investigating the incident as an expert on sniping.

[Sixgun Symphony]

He was Irish.
Contract work.
We're still looking for him...


If he was a professional, then why not something like a .300 WinMag bolt rifle with Luepold 10x scope?

[pretorian669]

[quote=pretorian669]He was Irish.
Contract work.
We're still looking for him...


Well I guess he did not arrive to the Ben Gurion Airport with his own rifle saying "Hi I'm here to shoot some of your guys for money. Is that OK with you?"
And again the weapons found were those of a palestinian decoy and not those of the actual sniper who took the shots. The targets where hit by
7.62X51 bullets. By the way the real firing position was identified by someone I know at around 300 meters from the checkpoint. The general direction of the position was identified by learning the impact angles . Than on that general straight line two possible positions were found in one of which a high consternation of a chemical agent was found that neutralized the ability of tracking dogs to pick up his tracks. A few secondary and decoy positions where found also but only one position was used according to the investigation. The hits in the post by other callibers / angels were made by the decoy who was positioned nowhere near the actual sniper.

It was a very professionally executed military operation.

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/sniper/sniper_sign.jpg

[Sixgun Symphony]

I am thinking that a precision rifle would have been smuggled in from Jordan.

Anyway, I checked my copy of "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee and the .303 British cartridge actually uses a .313 caliber bullet. I then checked some online sources and the milsurp FMJ bullets will be 174gr weight.

So I take it that the bullets recovered from the cadavers were .308 and not .313?

If they were .308 caliber bullets, then how could you assume the rifle was chambered in 7.62 NATO? There are several cartridges that use a .308 caliber bullet. Perhaps your military discovered some 7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) shell casings? If so, then this guy was sloppy. A shell case might have a fingerprint. Of course you guys seem to know alot about this person...

[Ichhabe]

I am thinking that a precision rifle would have been smuggled in from Jordan.



So I take it that the bullets recovered from the cadavers were .308 and not .313?


Not to be a nitpicker, but since your the kinda guy that seem to like to have every bit of information in a correctly manner I would have refrased the use of "cadavers".
Since it is humans we are talking about that demands respect. It is either body or corpse.

A cadaver is an animal, may it be a squirrel or a cow.

[Uninen]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cadaver

cadaver

\Ca*da"ver\, n. [L., fr cadere to fall.] A dead human body; a corpse.

cadaver

n : the dead body of a human being [syn: corpse, stiff, clay, remains]

:slap:

[Sixgun Symphony]

Thanks Uninen,

Ichhabe, We usually refer to a human corpse as a cadaver. Especially for autopsy. Speaking of autopsy, I am wondering more about the recovered bullets.

If they were .308 diameter, then a 150gr weight bullet would most likey have come from a 7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) rifle. Now .308 caliber, 150gr bullet could also have come from a .30-06, but I doubt a European would choose the venerable .30-06 over the 7.62mm NATO round which would be more familiar to him.

Now I was thinking it could have been the 7.62x54R chambering. Very possible, especially since someone said it was a Mosin-Nagant rifle used. So I check out the 7.62x54R cartridge in my reloading book to see that it uses a .310 caliber bullet. Hmmm...

If the recovered bullets were .308 caliber (7.62mm), especially if they were 150gr weight, then I think it would be a 7.62x51mm rifle.

[mustamato]

Well, and how do the Israelis know that he was Irish? If they know that much
they probably know who the guy is as well?

[pretorian669]

No cases where recovered only bullets and they were 7.62X51.
From 300 meters a good scoped Fal or G3 can do the work.
They got them both . A good scope and zeroing range and you're good to go.

[pretorian669]

Well, and how do the Israelis know that he was Irish? If they know that much
they probably know who the guy is as well?
The chemical agent was Irish beer :lol:

[M_S]

That doesn't say alot, I can buy some russian vodka but im not russian :roll:

[AirZone]

Yeah, i heard it was IRA sniper

[AK-Lover]

IRA and Hezbollah work together? :|

[Sixgun Symphony]

IRA and Hezbollah work together? :|

Most of the IRA are commies, not Catholic. Being hard Left, they sympathize with the PLO cause.

I once visited an Irish Republican forum to see what they were about and there were some using PLO terrorist images for their avatars.

http://fiannaeireann.com/phpBB2/index.php


You can click on the URL above to see it for yourself.

[pretorian669]

IRA and Hezbollah work together? :|
Don't know about that but money and contract killers do work together ;)

[gilgoul]

Does anyone know about the Palestinian sniper who killed about 9 Israeli soldiers using a Galil, a CAR-15, m203 and an Lee Enfield?

cmon he used a ww2 garand m1

[Basil]

If it's Nato 7.62mm Could be a Lee neflied- some were converted to 7.62mm for Snipers in the Uk Armed Forces.

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn44-e.htm

As to Irish Sniper, well PIRA have had links to mid east before- training camps and funding etc. They've turned up in Colombia with FARC.

Have heard reports that as a aprt of the Oslo accord CIA was to train Palestinian Snipers, Anyone got any more information on that? (My ref was from SOF- a reserve Israeli Sniper).

Also has anyone heard of a refernce to Barret .50 AMR's being made available to Mujahideen for use against Russian Camps during the 80's?

Cheers Gordo

[sethen]

I am thinking that a precision rifle would have been smuggled in from Jordan.

Anyway, I checked my copy of "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee and the .303 British cartridge actually uses a .313 caliber bullet. I then checked some online sources and the milsurp FMJ bullets will be 174gr weight.

So I take it that the bullets recovered from the cadavers were .308 and not .313?

If they were .308 caliber bullets, then how could you assume the rifle was chambered in 7.62 NATO? There are several cartridges that use a .308 caliber bullet. Perhaps your military discovered some 7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) shell casings? If so, then this guy was sloppy. A shell case might have a fingerprint. Of course you guys seem to know alot about this person...

Well let me say that there is an Indian made version of the venerable .303 and gues what, its chambered in .308 winchester!!!! This is the equivqlant of 7.62x51!!!! thus most likely the IRA shooter was using an Indian .308!!!!!! These weapons only cost $100.00 over here in America and would be even less in middle east!!!!! Thus, in my humble opinion this hit was conducted with lee-enfield clone-Indian .308!!!!!! :|

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Yeah, whatever sherlock....!!!!!

[RomanS]

What is the question again?

[guitarwolf]

Did the sniper work with a spotter?

[dacanadianbomb]

It wouldnt be a far off idea that the IRA did work for the PLO.
As faras I remember reading in the 80's they trained Plaestinians in bomb making etc. The IRA sure spreads their fingers out far.

But how does he dive under in that region ?. Unless he used a NGO cover.
Moving around there is not as easy.
The Palestinians would not want people to see that they are providing protection to a guy like that.

I have been to the Gaza Strip and I could see someone like him trying to stick around NGO/UN places where there are alot of light coloured people.
You dont want to stray to far into the place without marked cars and stuff.

Although he may have simply high-tailed in out of Jordan asap after doing it. Getting into Jordan is twice as easy as getting into Lebanon.

Anyway I am not authorative on that.
The one thing that might speak against him being irish is that if he was and the israelis alread know he is Irish , the mossad will know what he is eating right this moment. Unless they , or the PLO already have buried the guy somewhere in a dusty mound.

[guitarwolf]

Anyway I am not authorative on that.
The one thing that might speak against him being irish is that if he was and the israelis alread know he is Irish , the mossad will know what he is eating right this moment.

If he's IRA, it's bad enough having the Brits trying to arrest him. Why would he go and make life complicated having Mossad trying to grease his ass? Somewhere in Ireland there's a guy walking sideways with his back against a wall...

[Mark_Aspen]

I think we're in speculative mode here. The Israelis had arrested one guy who it turned out was an Irish journalist. Why is it so hard to think an Arab could have been the sniper? They flew motorized hang gliders once too. I'd probably venture that the Israelis suffered from equal parts complacency and poor training.

[oldsoak]

I suspect that the Israeli intelligence services may have had info from an inside source as to his origin -also things like picking up your empty cases after having shot several rounds point to a well trained individual ( especially when the locals dont pick up their cases ) . Thats not saying that Arabs cant do it, its just that AFAIK they dont appear to be trained to the level of the west or warpac countries. As an aside rumour had it there was an individual called " one shot willy " who took on the army in NI . It was thought he was an individual from the eastern bloc brought in to snipe at the Brits. He only ever fired one shot at a time and it was always a head shot ( so I'm told ) and he was gone from his hide and away. I'm told they caught up with him in the end.

[IDFM203]

I think we're in speculative mode here. The Israelis had arrested one guy who it turned out was an Irish journalist. Why is it so hard to think an Arab could have been the sniper? They flew motorized hang gliders once too. I'd probably venture that the Israelis suffered from equal parts complacency and poor training. From what I read, I believe the suspicion on this being a Irish person or that one was involved was a little more then us merely speculating but was from some security officials after an investigation.

Anyways I don’t remember where I read that and I am not sure if that was officially dismissed or not.

I have always said that contrary to popular belief, the pali’s do have some quality snipers, now most aren’t but I and others know that in their ranks there are some very professionally trained snipers and as such it is a fallacy on your part to assume that none of us recognize that.

My view on this and I say this respectfully to those soldiers that died is that whether it was an Irish man or a pali, it makes no difference for what I believe is that more of the blame for the amount of lost lives falls on the IDF soldiers there for a few of the procedures that I read they did not follow and non withstanding the professionalism of that sniper, the IDF soldiers there more then anything are to blame for the amount of losses that was occurred there.

All I can say is that we aren’t perfect and indeed we (generic) can at times make operational or procedural mistakes and all I can hope for is that we study what happen and learn from it so as to prevent some of the mistakes there from not being repeated.

Shalom :D

[slobo]

He was Irish.
Contract work.
We're still looking for him...

F*#King Provo Pig. Find him and cap his ass, wherever he is.

[slobo]

He was Irish.
Contract work.
We're still looking for him...

F*#King Provo Pig. Find him and cap his ass, wherever he is.

[faithless]

First not all ira members are communist the commies are either breakoff groups or use the ira name in a bad way i do not mean to flame in any way




ps: not ira member and do not support them but i do

support unification of ireland


big fan of the forum and its my first post

[Viktorin]

I am thinking that a precision rifle would have been smuggled in from Jordan.



So I take it that the bullets recovered from the cadavers were .308 and not .313?


Not to be a nitpicker, but since your the kinda guy that seem to like to have every bit of information in a correctly manner I would have refrased the use of "cadavers".
Since it is humans we are talking about that demands respect. It is either body or corpse.

A cadaver is an animal, may it be a squirrel or a cow.

Cadaver
Noun
1. The dead body of a human being

;)

[Rifleman]

Does anyone know about the Palestinian sniper who killed about 9 Israeli soldiers using a Galil, a CAR-15, m203 and an Lee Enfield?

cmon he used a ww2 garand m1

My Favorite;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid132/p423f8ca3df5747e1f9c709cb69cbe7e5/f79ee9e8.jpg

[PrincessRAR]

After reading through the posts and looking at articles about the incident I am beginning to think that the carbine left at the lair was probably a back up weapon to be used if compromised. If he was using a bolt gun and acting alone and unsupported he might find the need for something a bit more hard hitting than pistol.

Yep I'd say your right.
If I was in that situation I would do the same.

Set up your first ambush point, pick 3-4 others that you could safely access from each other without being compromised.

As your first is discovered you are already at your second and so on - each would therefore have to have a field of view of the last ambush point if you ere doing it that way.

Otherwise in this guys case, he would have had his ambush point - then a point to fall back on that he could defend hence the automatic and not another bolt action.

Smart man I'll give him that much.

[Walter Schumate]

Whoops I somehow missed the whole of page 2 thus making my post somewhat redundant..sorry gents

Cadaver:

A cadaver is a dead body that is used for being dissected. To dissect is to separate into pieces for scientific examination. Medical students work with cadavers of human beings to learn about the human body. A cadaver is also known as a corpse. Cadaver comes from the Latin word "cadere" meaning "to fall." The reason for this is that a dead person falls from a standing position, or as many people say, "drops dead."

So cadaver is human and animal yes ?

[khukuri]

I think we're in speculative mode here. The Israelis had arrested one guy who it turned out was an Irish journalist. Why is it so hard to think an Arab could have been the sniper? They flew motorized hang gliders once too. I'd probably venture that the Israelis suffered from equal parts complacency and poor training. From what I read, I believe the suspicion on this being a Irish person or that one was involved was a little more then us merely speculating but was from some security officials after an investigation.

Anyways I don’t remember where I read that and I am not sure if that was officially dismissed or not.

I have always said that contrary to popular belief, the pali’s do have some quality snipers, now most aren’t but I and others know that in their ranks there are some very professionally trained snipers and as such it is a fallacy on your part to assume that none of us recognize that.

My view on this and I say this respectfully to those soldiers that died is that whether it was an Irish man or a pali, it makes no difference for what I believe is that more of the blame for the amount of lost lives falls on the IDF soldiers there for a few of the procedures that I read they did not follow and non withstanding the professionalism of that sniper, the IDF soldiers there more then anything are to blame for the amount of losses that was occurred there.

All I can say is that we aren’t perfect and indeed we (generic) can at times make operational or procedural mistakes and all I can hope for is that we study what happen and learn from it so as to prevent some of the mistakes there from not being repeated.

Shalom :D


1: Very interesting read. I know my relatives told me alot of palestinians training in irak for along time ago. I have this feeling/theory that the elder generations have some trained people while the younger ones in theese times mostly jump throu fire rings and wave heroic victory flags... What are youre views on this?

2: About the behaviour of the soilders I can agree on some of them acting "clumsy". But I still think that youre being to harsh on them. You have alot of younger guys out on theese posts with no experience of getting shot at. Especially when it comes to sniper fire where you dont know what youre exactly dealing with. Talk about panic and fear...

[DukeScout]

Well let me say that there is an Indian made version of the venerable .303 and gues what, its chambered in .308 winchester!!!! This is the equivqlant of 7.62x51!!!! thus most likely the IRA shooter was using an Indian .308!!!!!! These weapons only cost $100.00 over here in America and would be even less in middle east!!!!! Thus, in my humble opinion this hit was conducted with lee-enfield clone-Indian .308!!!!!! :|

I recently did a stint in Afghanistan and brought back a Lee Enfield G.R.I., S.HT. L.E which was made in Ishapore India and put into production in 1941. A version of the S.M.L.E, (Smelly). I call it my “Deer Hunting Jingle Gun”. It’s got multi-colored beads and leather and studs and all kinds of decorations and little dangly things. His loss, my gain.
Anyway, I did a lot of research on this weapon and come up with these FACTS en-regard to your posts, take it for what it’s worth:

The Lee-Enfield rifle was in use with the Irish Defense Forces from its beginning as the Irish Volunteers around 1916 until its removal from service finally in 1990. It fired the .303 cartridge from a ten-round detachable box magazine, loaded from five-round chargers.
The "floating barrel" and other not so minor modifications introduced in the Rifle No.1, Mk.VI. improved the accuracy and the No. 4 became the standard British rifle, with a 3x scope on the sniper version. The British Army introduced it from 1939.
In all over 14 million were produced when English production stopped in 1956. The Indian Firm in Ishapore continued to produce a strengthened SMLE in 7.62 mm NATO, as well as .303 SMLEs into the 1980s.
Still looking for an Original scope and mount for this weapon if you could help a Brother out just email me at:
DukeScout@aol.com

[LRPV]

Since this has already been dredged up, does anyone have any updates on this marksman?

[futurepilot2004]

Since this has already been dredged up, does anyone have any updates on this marksman?

Don`t think anything has been heard of it since. He`s probably having a pint in some belfast pub as we speak.
Its well known that the PIRA used to train with the PLO in Libya and the Bekaa valley so it is quite possible that a member or former member went back as a mercenary.

[muttbutt]

Don`t think anything has been heard of it since. He`s probably having a pint in some belfast pub as we speak.
Its well known that the PIRA used to train with the PLO in Libya and the Bekaa valley so it is quite possible that a member or former member went back as a mercenary.
doubtfull, it was an open secret who he was, but apprently he never came back to Ireland North or South, It was thought he headed to South America after being in the ME, but it was never confirmed

[CMEPTb]

I remember jpost.com reporting that an IRA member was suspected of being the gunman because the shooter left the rifle behind, which is supposedly an IRA tactic.

As far as the PLO-CIA connection goes, some PLO forces received CIA training in the mid 90's. I used to have a picture of a group of PLO guys standing next to some CIA instructors but I can't find it. I did find this picture in google:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5936/plociayh5.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plociayh5.jpg)

[Imshi-Yallah]

Question:

When have the IRA had all that many decent marksmen, never mind snipers.

Urban myth about the 12.7mm sniper attacks aside (to the best of my knowledge these were usually Juba style aggregations of various other shoot and sh*t yourself attacks by those brave sackheads from much shorter ranges which were pushed by the Subversive propaganda machine/tabloids/Walts as being incredible IRA killing machine attacks)

It doesn't really take an amazing sniper or any sort of major bumfcuk incompetence on the behalf of soldiers manning a checkpoint to inflict these sort of casualties.
All it takes is planning and a bit of luck. There is plently of time to shoot nine blokes who are deployed in a Counter insurgency/Aid to the civil power type role in the ten plus minutes it would take any standby air cover to arrive on scene.

Anyone could have been caught out like those unfortunate Israeli soldiers and all the "sniper" would need is local support (which we can assume they had at least passively) and sound basic marksmanship which doesn't require a CIA training montage to achieve.

ps: I'm not trying to absolve the chuckies of anything, I just seriously doubt they are anywhere competent enough to achieve the sort of amazing hollywood hit being talked about here.

[muttbutt]

Question:

When have the IRA had all that many decent marksmen, never mind snipers.

Urban myth about the 12.7mm sniper attacks aside (to the best of my knowledge these were usually Juba style aggregations of various other shoot and sh*t yourself attacks by those brave sackheads from much shorter ranges which were pushed by the Subversive propaganda machine/tabloids/Walts as being incredible IRA killing machine attacks)

It doesn't really take an amazing sniper or any sort of major bumfcuk incompetence on the behalf of soldiers manning a checkpoint to inflict these sort of casualties.
All it takes is planning and a bit of luck. There is plently of time to shoot nine blokes who are deployed in a Counter insurgency/Aid to the civil power type role in the ten plus minutes it would take any standby air cover to arrive on scene.

Anyone could have been caught out like those unfortunate Israeli soldiers and all the "sniper" would need is local support (which we can assume they had at least passively) and sound basic marksmanship which doesn't require a CIA training montage to achieve.

ps: I'm not trying to absolve the chuckies of anything, I just seriously doubt they are anywhere competent enough to achieve the sort of amazing hollywood hit being talked about here.

Did all of the shooters the RA have qualify as experts...no, and I take your point, but they did send several guy's to civilian shooting courses in the US, also there was supposedly a former USMC S/S, who trained several of them in the US, but that was not confirmed