Webbing vs. Vests/Chest rigs for Infantry work.

[kangur]

Hello,

What kind of personal equipment is better for standard Infantry, full-scale conflict? Chest Rig/Ves or Webbing /Belt Order?

Vests have their advantages, but seem to be less comfortable when combined with a heavy backpack, also more complex to manufacture.

I am only considering standard Infantry, NOT SF.

Which type of individal equipment do you think is better for nation-wide issue to Infantry Soldiers?

Regards,
Kangur

[Blarney]

for which country?

[Erik2a4]

Chest rig for vehicle-mounted or MOUT situations. I prefer this to directly mounting to body armor, but each to his own.

Traditional webbing/MOLLE/PLCE for lots of walking or patrolling.

But really, it all depends upon where you are operating.

[kangur]

g'day,

I am considering jungle/european forest/ australian bush etc. NOT urban situations. Standard infantry foot patrol work. Rifle + soldier + backpack.

Inb Europe, what do regular armies use the mose?

Are the Brits using belt order or Chest rigs?

K.

[ABNINF]

I would recommend webbing for forest work. It's uncomfortable to get into the ****e with all your mags strapped to your chest. Chest rigs for urban work. Just MHO.

[East Scout]

this is the never ending debate..Its part opinion-part practicality-part comman sense...........

[Sabre]

You can't go wrong with belt kit. It is the best for all situations. You have plenty of room for kit, easy access to all of it, you can go ****e easily, access your smock/ventilate and it works well with a bergen.

Vests, in my experience, are quite comfy but you can't access all of the pouches easily. PLCE vests are especially crap due to the inane design of the ammo pouches. Working on the premise that you ought only to carry what is useful in your webbing, what is the point in a system where you can't get at some of it when you need it?

Chest rigs are good for vehicles as they are even less restrictive than vests. I personally prefer very small rigs with space for 8-9 mags and maybe a radio. All other essentials can go in a grab bag in the vehicle.

[East Scout]

You can't go wrong with belt kit. It is the best for all situations. You have plenty of room for kit, easy access to all of it, you can go ****e easily, access your smock/ventilate and it works well with a bergen.





Ill agree with that 100%..Never had anything like a chest rig in my day unless you were playing OPFOR and were issued some "enemy gear" like a Chinese one..Always had the trusty LBE/PLCE/webbing (what ever your county lables it, its all the same basicly)

[Icarus1]

I am oldschool too and the CHestrigs were issued when my servicetime was nearly over. I still carry most of the important stuff (weapons, ammo, light) around the belt and the rest in the chestrig. But I must agree, chestrigs are damn comfortable and handy, especially in MOUT and when driving around in vehicles.

[bluffcove]

When using webbing you can still use the brecon and chest pockets on a smock. If you are wearing a vest all the things that used to be in those pockets* then have to be moved to the Vest, taking up most of the space you had gained by changing anyway.

Stick with webbing, it is simpler in terms of modification, repair, replacement, and organisation. The spanish clips can also be done one handed when you are cold behind your back, Not sure you can do the same with male female clips on vests!!!

* Kit in pockets, I mean snacks, FFD, Racing spoon, Combitool, LED button torch. brufen gel, vaseline.

[RecceGuy]

Well I'm in a Recce Reg't and we get issued both vest and PLCE. I found the vest the best deal when I was in Iraq mainly 'cos I operated from rovers most of the time. Ours have been modded by the tailoress to accept A2 mags more easily, no mean feat when she had to do 350. Webbing though pretty much does it in nearly all situations, especially after you've put it together how you want it. Mine's been together for 6 years now and pretty much stays the same shape when I take it off. I'd be fairly upset if I had to hand it all in.

[MrScruff]

Webbing all the way. Assault vests are for driving and not having to go through doors sideways.

[Royal]

Horses for courses.

In the woods or jungle - webbing all the way.

OBUA and vehicle work and in the high hills then a chest rig.

Need more kit than a rig carries and get in and out of vehicles/helos then use a vest.

I use all 3 on occasion, though I've tended to use mainly a chest rig and a vest on Ops recently.

The ventilation issue with webbing doesn't hold true (except in the trees) because on Ops you'll almost always be wearing CBA, which negates that advantage.

[kangur]

Thanks for your input, how about a few pictures of peoples webbing? Here is mine:

http://www.specops.com.pl/taktyka%20zielona/adf_my_webbing/webing%20closed%20full.jpg
http://www.specops.com.pl/taktyka%20zielona/adf_my_webbing/webing%20general%20view%20400.jpg

pretty much standard ADF with one aftermarket panic pouch.

k.

[Erik2a4]

Not a big fan of taping a knife upside down on the suspenders. On all of my gear I try to keep that area free; putting stuff there tends to either interfere with weapon while firing, or with the shoulder straps of a ruck (bergen).

May want to consider a dump pouch and camelback if you're going to be wearing body armor. Can't exactly throw used mags down your shirt with that on.

Other than that I agree with Royal and Sabre. It seems that a lot of units are going to a "modular" kit that you can use to configure what you need for when you need it. So you can have all three types (Chest/Vest/Webbing) at your disposal.

[Erik2a4]

I've heard that the quality of Arktis is a bit lacking? Just curious...

[smp75]

As everyone's already pointed out, its mostly personal preference, if your unit actually gives you a choice. One thing to be sure to do with any gear: Tie ALL your sh!t down, tape or secure everything that rattles or shines. get your kit setup, and shake it around a few times. You dont wanna sound like a damned gypsy camp bustin brush.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

My rig.

South African M-83 assault vest with a few modifications thanks to gafkiwi.

Riflemancentric in that carrying gun ammo is extremely difficult due to the lack of suitable pouches. However, easily the best webbing/vest I've used in my experience.

But yeah, as several people have said its personal preference. As an example most unit snipers I know prefer to make their own ghillie suits rather than use the issue one.

[baboon6]

My rig.

South African M-83 assault vest with a few modifications thanks to gafkiwi.

Riflemancentric in that carrying gun ammo is extremely difficult due to the lack of suitable pouches. However, easily the best webbing/vest I've used in my experience.



In the SADF in the 80s a "MAGger" would carry 200 rounds of 7.62mm link in one of the waterbottle pouches (the "kidney" pouches) and another 400 in the back pouch. Of course this meant he could only carry one 2 litre water bottle. However most operations were from vehicles, so getting more water wasn't always a big problem.

[TacoDelRio]

I've got pretty much the same preferances as everyone else here.

Lotsa walking: Web gear / belt kit
Lotsa riding: Chest rig / vests

A lighter weight chest rig is pretty comfy if yer doing lots of ropework, such as safety lines in the mountains, or rappelling. On the other hand, I have trouble breathing wearing one while climbing more than about 5,000ft. Belt kit frees up the chest, which amongst other things, lets your lungs expand and fill with air and all that fancy crap. Makes it so your body works a bit better in that effect.

I don't have a big buttpack on my belt kit most of the time, so it's not that uncomfortable wearing it in a vehicle, although I wouldn't do it day in and day out.

[gafkiwi]

I've always prefered vests since moving on from the vietnam vintage stuff we were issued in the mid to late 90s Alot of the vests I buy or make myself are influenced by a combination of Sth African, Brit, Aussy and Yank designs, with a Kiwi spin an them. When Im in a ****e firing position, my profile is the same height wearing belt order but none of the pouches are on the front hold more than 2 mags(60mm deep). The vest designs I use are just as comfortable to wear a pack as with belt order.
If i ever find myself carring a GPMG again in an infantry section I will always wear belt order, our current stuff slightly modified is good but with a small vest attached to the yoke/harness for stuff like a pistol grenades etc, Because of the space that the belt takes up.
the vest below is one i made up for a mate it was very compact but carried alot
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7640/mk2vest19oq.jpghttp://img68.imageshack.us/img68/7403/mk2vest25xv.jpg

[Ratel]

This is a photo of my kit, taken in 1988 whilst I did national service in the South African Defence Force. The original nutria SADF tactical load bearing vest was developed in South Africa in 1987 or 88 and from what I've read, has since been adopted by armies around the world.

http://www.sa-soldier.com/avatars/webbingandgalil.jpg

[digrar]

I'm another fan of the SADF M83, it's a nice compromise between vest and belt webbing.
I'd also recommend pisssing the knife off, I'm guessing your a reservist (just a guess because if you were reg I reckon it would be gone already)?

[East Scout]

This is a photo of my kit, taken in 1988 whilst I did national service in the South African Defence Force. The original nutria SADF tactical load bearing vest was developed in South Africa in 1987 or 88 and from what I've read, has since been adopted by armies around the world.

http://www.sa-soldier.com/avatars/webbingandgalil.jpg

I just ordered a bulk lot of these from a South Afrikan wholesale exporter for ebay sales. I'll surely keep one for myself..

[East Scout]

Also, does anyone have a few pictures of the various models that are out there? The M83 comes in a few variations but pictures are limited..

[ABNINF]

Couldn't stay away huh East Scout?

[RichardH]

I currently wear a chestrig, but i personally prefer a vest.
you can have more stuff in your vest since it has pockets, and its easy to take on or off your body, and if you're going to take a nap, (inside a tent perhaps) you can just take your jacket on if you suddenly have to get up and get ready for action, whereas a chestrig, you have to take the whole thing off, then pull it down over your head when you want to wear it again.. too much hassle.

[STEPAN1983]

In Russian army webbing is very popular ("Smersh", made by SPOSN company). We have a stereotype that vest and chestrigs cover the human chest. When you breathe, your chest expands. When you walk a lot, vest restricts your breathing (there is no room to expand). If you have the armor vest, you dont care about additional chest rig or vest (your chest is already covered). But unfortunately, we dont have a good army armor vests and you all know about chaotic russian way to use gear and uniforms. So without armor vests, in the field, without motorised transport like Humvee or BTR, it is more comfortable to use webbing. Some people say that they feel a weakness after walking with vests, but those who use webbing feel Ok.

[Dan2004]

My issued TA-50

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/311/beltloadkj9.jpg

And my RACK, which I prefer to use. Usually in conjunction with my patrol pack.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1903/rackmn9.jpg