Never knew how to feel about combat

[polyhistor]

With any combat MOS its supposed to be the "pinnacle" of your job, but due to the nature of war, your not supposed to want it. I thought about it then and even out of the service i still think about it but can never reach a conclusion. You train for war in hopes it never happens, but in this conflict in iraq, we had like 3 months of semi-war fighting, then the occupation with the random skirmishs.

I guess as an infantryman at times, im sad to say, as well as many of my brethren, hoped for some time of scuffle. At the back of my head every time id hear a mortar land, or a small firefight in the distance id wish it would come our way, a tough and determined enemy. I had a chance to see a bit of combat, not none the like some of the boys in 3rd ID, or the soldiers and marines in falluja; but i always think back and wish in a way, i was there. To do what the iconic figure of my job was supposed to do, find and engage the enemy by means of fire and manuver.

Im torn, i dont know how to feel? War f'ing blows, but the sensation of real combat, and doing the job you've trained for, for so long and hard coming to life and everything coming together is beyond anything in this world, man , i swear after my first bit of combat ; i had this nuts high, twice as better then an orgasm.

I finally got a job at a womans shoe store at macy's which i look forward too, but i dont know if i will ever do anything that gives me such a rush and feeling of importance as my time in the army. Im always left wondering, what if, i wonder ....

Thoughts?

[Red]

edit edit edit edit

[Howie Kaluha]

Well, I've only just joined the Army (not even gone though BCT). However, I think I know what you mean. I myself don't really know what to feel either. Personally, I joined because I want to contribute to what we're doing in this world, I want to serve my country instead of myself. But, understanding we're at war makes it more difficult to put a finger on the emotions of it all. I want to be prepared to use the skills the Army teaches me, and I want to use them; on the other hand, I hope I don't have to use them.

[Ayura]

Hamza Yusuf (the guy in my avatar) was giving a lecture once and in it, he discussed the issue of "an addiction" to war. That those who go through war can easily become addicted to it. Do you believe there is some truth in this?

(sorry if this is off-topic.)

[medic99]

I got out of the Army two years ago and since that time I have found myself constantly bored at work. I think that the reason I miss it so much is because of the rush or adreneline that I got from training and deployments. Now a days I fly to get that. I would not say that I felt addicted to combat but I def loved the adreneline and feeling I got from it.

[oregongrunt]

Having been an infantryman in Iraq I find your post a little strange. You may have been in the infantry, but were you in a line company? Apparently you haven't seen the elephant.

[guest]

edit***********edit

" in the middle of hell, aka the sandbox" or by my IP, Canada.

[Bombtrack]

Might want to post credentials so people dont assume youre full of it

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Hamza Yusuf (the guy in my avatar) was giving a lecture once and in it, he discussed the issue of "an addiction" to war. That those who go through war can easily become addicted to it. Do you believe there is some truth in this?

(sorry if this is off-topic.)

I don't think anyone becomes addicted to war as such, but the rush of certain elements of combat can't be denied. Getting shot at and not being hit is pretty euphoric for instance. Getting hit kinda sucks though.
There's far more to it than that of course.
The feeling of brotherhood between guys who've seen combat is indescribable.

[I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

I got out of the Army two years ago and since that time I have found myself constantly bored at work. I think that the reason I miss it so much is because of the rush or adreneline that I got from training and deployments. Now a days I fly to get that. I would not say that I felt addicted to combat but I def loved the adreneline and feeling I got from it.

im a civie, having never served in the military...but i think medic is on to something there...w/o trying to do one of those "this is how you feel" quotes, sounds to me like you miss the adrenaline, the freedom of movement etc...

[EsoognomEhT]

What does MOS mean? yanks speak funny ;o



I finally got a job at a womans shoe store at macy's which i look forward too, but i dont know if i will ever do anything that gives me such a rush and feeling of importance as my time in the army. Im always left wondering, what if, i wonder .


Is this a joke? :}

[ABNINF]

One of my soldiers is obsessed with getting his CIB right now. I've tried to talk to him, but he won't shut up about it. But the question is that, once you've seen the elephant, to borrow oregon's catchphrase, and you've got your CIB, then what? There's always SOMEONE, that most combat infantryman would gladly give up their CIB for, just to have them back. If I need to spell that out, well.......

[California Joe]

This is an odd thread and although I understand what the thread starter is getting at I can also appreciate that only men who've been in combat understand the feelings involved and even those feelings are subject to personal interpretation......ie, people respond differently to the same situations....

[Lokos]

*sigh*

Brother, I don't know what to make of your post. The only thing I'll ever miss about the whole sordid mess of combat is that feeling of belonging peiculiar to formations that have been through their baptism of fire. I won't miss the terror, or the thoughts that what I'm shooting at aren't just targets, but people. It's a shiet-scary ordeal, and the only thing that makes you get on your feet and close with the enemy to engage is the training.

Lokos

[khukuri]

With any combat MOS its supposed to be the "pinnacle" of your job, but due to the nature of war, your not supposed to want it. I thought about it then and even out of the service i still think about it but can never reach a conclusion. You train for war in hopes it never happens, but in this conflict in iraq, we had like 3 months of semi-war fighting, then the occupation with the random skirmishs.

I guess as an infantryman at times, im sad to say, as well as many of my brethren, hoped for some time of scuffle. At the back of my head every time id hear a mortar land, or a small firefight in the distance id wish it would come our way, a tough and determined enemy. I had a chance to see a bit of combat, not none the like some of the boys in 3rd ID, or the soldiers and marines in falluja; but i always think back and wish in a way, i was there. To do what the iconic figure of my job was supposed to do, find and engage the enemy by means of fire and manuver.

Im torn, i dont know how to feel? War f'ing blows, but the sensation of real combat, and doing the job you've trained for, for so long and hard coming to life and everything coming together is beyond anything in this world, man , i swear after my first bit of combat ; i had this nuts high, twice as better then an orgasm.

I finally got a job at a womans shoe store at macy's which i look forward too, but i dont know if i will ever do anything that gives me such a rush and feeling of importance as my time in the army. Im always left wondering, what if, i wonder ....

Thoughts?


I get what you mean. I actually think most soilders thought like that. Its frustrating to train train train and become good at and then train and train for something you never use. And also to add to that, even if it seems to be pure **** being in a fight, its stills seems to be something exciting about it. Like Ngati Tumatuenga aleady mentioned. Still I hope I never get in a fight or get shot at. Its cinda of difficult to not feel complex about the issue. thou I know combat is probably horror. You want to have expirienced it.

[oregongrunt]

One of my soldiers is obsessed with getting his CIB right now. I've tried to talk to him, but he won't shut up about it. But the question is that, once you've seen the elephant, to borrow oregon's catchphrase, and you've got your CIB, then what? There's always SOMEONE, that most combat infantryman would gladly give up their CIB for, just to have them back. If I need to spell that out, well.......
Very true, it was a bitter pill to lose people in combat. I don't know anyone in the infantry that was in close combat that hadn't come out of it changed in some way. Here's a really great quote.

"Boys,

I’ve been where you are now and I know just how you feel. It’s entirely natural that there should beat in the breast of every one of you a hope and desire that some day you can use the skill you have acquired here.

Suppress it! You don’t know the horrible aspects of war. I’ve been through two wars and I know. I’ve seen cities and homes in ashes. I’ve seen thousands of men lying on the ground, their dead faces looking up at the skies. I tell you, war is hell!"

-General William T. Sherman to the graduating class of the Michigan Military Academy, 1880.

[Silent 6]

What does MOS mean? yanks speak funny ;o





:}

MOS = Military Occupational Specialty...your job title.

[AlexNenadic]

Here's a quote from a friend of mine who happens to be a US Army SF officer:

"I have never met a Special Operations soldier of any type that did not
relish the opportunity to apply his tradecraft. The more elite one
becomes, the more willing one is to follow orders and execute without
hesitation."

[Royal]

"The more elite one becomes, the more willing one is to follow orders and execute without hesitation."

I find it very difficult to believe that a 'quiet professional' would make such a crass comment.

[AlexNenadic]

I find it very difficult to believe that a 'quiet professional' would make such a crass comment.

PMed you.

Alex

[Kaplanr]

My experience while not in sustained Iraq type combat never-the-less involved ieds, snipers, rockets and the rest of the mix that Hizbullah could do in the mid 80s.

I followed the bell-curve with the top of the curve being the adrenaline rush and excitement of practicing what I learned, and doing it well (coming out in one piece as individuals and as a unit, and fulfilling our mission.) The downward part of the curve would be when I kept feeling that the odds had to catch up, that we could only be so good, and that their capabilities were improving relative to ours. That's rational thought 20 years later, then it was just a feeling of something would inevitably have to go wrong while out there.

If I miss anything, it's the ability to practice the skills I learned as well as the comradery of the unit. Underneath I think there is somethin else a little darker. As a soldier I had to maintain a different level of responsibility; I wasn't married and didn't have a family. I didn't have to worry about day to day things like housing, taxes, car payments or showing up for work, I was there 24/7. I was fed, clothed and told what to do explicitly or implicitly most of the time. On the other hand I was responsible for a unit or a position that had a different sort of value, but it wasn't a mundane burden like a warehouse or lot of used cars.

[BadKarma26]

With any combat MOS its supposed to be the "pinnacle" of your job, but due to the nature of war, your not supposed to want it. I thought about it then and even out of the service i still think about it but can never reach a conclusion. You train for war in hopes it never happens, but in this conflict in iraq, we had like 3 months of semi-war fighting, then the occupation with the random skirmishs.

I guess as an infantryman at times, im sad to say, as well as many of my brethren, hoped for some time of scuffle. At the back of my head every time id hear a mortar land, or a small firefight in the distance id wish it would come our way, a tough and determined enemy. I had a chance to see a bit of combat, not none the like some of the boys in 3rd ID, or the soldiers and marines in falluja; but i always think back and wish in a way, i was there. To do what the iconic figure of my job was supposed to do, find and engage the enemy by means of fire and manuver.

Im torn, i dont know how to feel? War f'ing blows, but the sensation of real combat, and doing the job you've trained for, for so long and hard coming to life and everything coming together is beyond anything in this world, man , i swear after my first bit of combat ; i had this nuts high, twice as better then an orgasm.

I finally got a job at a womans shoe store at macy's which i look forward too, but i dont know if i will ever do anything that gives me such a rush and feeling of importance as my time in the army. Im always left wondering, what if, i wonder ....

Thoughts?

Join the Guard, go back and do it again. I know my division is "always hiring" haha.

[Mastermind]

here's my
take on it:

Phase 1: In training, you go through the motions and imagine combat...but all you have to go on are movies and TV and stories you have read. Sounds exciting and filled with glory...but you don't think it can ever really be your cup of tea.

Phase 2: You get orders to go to a peace time area in a combat unit (mine was an airborne Cav unit in Germany). You go on field problems and play soldier. It is still very unreal in your mind. The "enemy" is there, just across the fence...but, still it is not real.

Phase 3: You get orders to go to a combat zone (Vietnam)..You just S4it your pants...You don't believe it and try to get the orders changed...(I'm just in this for the education!)

Phase 4: You train really hard and get your affairs in order. You tell yourself it might be a cake walk.

Phase 5: You meet the in-country reality. The smell is the first thing everyone mentions...and it was the same for me. It smelled like rotten vegetation mixed with ****...so humid...Things got real when the AC never even stopped to let us out...Had to jump onto the tarmac while plane is rolling along about ten mph. A mortar attack was underway just after we landed. I was actually shocked to see strong points along the route to our hootches with real live ammo locked and loaded....the disorganization and dirt was everywhere...red dust on everything..."I'm in it now"...thoughts.

Phase 6: Actual combat...I see my first dead American...the guy was literally split in half right beside me by a huge piece of an exploding ACAV. Again, I s*hit my pants emotionally...I was useless...had no idea what to do...crawled into a ditch...me and one other guy survived..."Welcome to hell" thoughts.

Phase 7: Getting down and dirty...doing what is expected and I'm beginning to get familiar with the combat environment. Tet, 1968 hits...we fight like hell and win! Cool....I'm beginning to see how the "danger" zones are...the effective killing range and types of terrain in which people die. Got wounded…got blown up pretty good by a recoilless rifle hit…not so bad...one guy right next to me shot to pieces...TC got it through both legs...bloody mess...the LT is shot up pretty bad, too...I bandage him up. It doesn’t' seem real at all....like a funny kind of dream. I am learning to respect the enemy. Fire fights and dead are getting familiar...doing the job...but, still scared silly most of the time. Saw lots of rotting corpses. Can’t get used to the smell

Phase 8: Everyone I came over with are either dead or totally wounded. I'm starting to feel 'charmed' and I'm definitely developing a sense of superstition...never take point on a Friday...what day is it anyway?...Fire even if there is no target...that keeps their heads down...throws off their aim. Shoot the dead enemy bodies…make sure…kill anyone who is in enemy territory unless proven friendly…watch out for mines...Best friend got killed…really got to me…crying a lot…can’t stop crying…really embarrassing. My personal rules are more important now than my training. I'm starting to actually get into the swing of things.

Phase 9: Things are tough, exhaustion is setting in. I'm jumpy. Don't give a damn about anything. I don't figure I'm going to survive this. Lost lots of guys...watched three tanks burn up with crews inside...saw guys turned to red spray by direct hit...I just hope I get killed quick...damn sure don't want to get mangled like so many friends I have seen, they lost arms...lost faces, lost hands...I'm starting to enjoy killing the enemy...volunteering for ambush patrols… I’m doubting officers orders. ..Refuse orders that are likely to get us killed...tell the officers to go to hell...stupid bastards...even a court martial would be better than this s*hit...nothing happens...I'm crazy.

Phase 10: I’m really chilly now...I don't know why, but my fear is gone...what a relief...it feels really good not to be afraid anymore...I love this s*hit. I don't talk to anyone. They are all going to die anyway. No one talks to me, not even officers. I must look terrible, probably stink pretty bad. Haven’t had a bath in weeks…don’t care anyway...ha...Jerry's blood is still on my pants and I can't get it washed out...might be some of his brains are there too...can't tell what that is.......use up lots of water trying every day to wash it out...it stinks bad...can't get that smell out of my nose.. I love sharpening my bayonet and my .50 is a true friend…clean it constantly. People get wounded or killed on my track but I don’t pull out of the line…I keep going for the enemy…The only joy I have is seeing the bastards bleed....it's almost like an orgasm. I shoot my last enemy solider…repeatedly…dumped full belt of 50 rounds in him…saw his arms and legs come off - - - - .God I love this s*it!

That’s the way it was for me…I had a really hard time when I came home…I couldn’t handle the peace. Everyone around me seemed like total pussies…got in lots of fights...I went off to live in the desert for about six months by myself...got my head on straight...the nightmares started about a year later and have never stopped. I still on occasion can smell Jerry's blood...sound of Hueys flying over brings it all back.

That’s what it “feels” like!

[foxtrot023]

all I can say that after being shot at and shooting back, I tremble like a leaf for 15 mins. I though I would never stop

[Mastermind]

Adreanline over dose does that to you sometimes....

[cinoeye]

all I can say that after being shot at and shooting back, I tremble like a leaf for 15 mins. I though I would never stop

Yea, that's the first thing that comes to my mind.
My shaky knees where like a rubber, sweaty hands...
LAter you loose up, but those first souple of times you are 100% shoore, you are going to die.
No training can prepare you for those feelings.
I remember first time seeing the enemy. It was a nice weather, birds singing..and than you see people shooting at you. My first thought was, WHO are they? And then-MAn this is war, they are shooting to kill you!!!!
You need couple of minutes to comprehend that, I remember being not able to move, how scared I was.
WTF, that was acctualy how I felt.

WTF?
I belive this brave man share my feelings!
http://planetsean.blogspot.com/soldierScaredPolaris.jpg
http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/photography/images/photograph/medium/im00233.jpg
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1310/images10/ptsd3.jpg
http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/b_resources/d_images/image59.jpg

[Rooster_II]

Never been in war, in college during the first gulf war. But I want you to know I respect the he!! out of you sons a b!tches!

[polyhistor]

Awesome reponses guys thanks.

I think its more unique for the combat types because of the whole taking or maiming someone elses life. Its just a bad place to put yourself into? If i was a college student or something and never got ot apply my education id feel unfufilled, but sense the nature of war is nasty, you do and you dont.

But really, i did get a job at macy's and i start tomorrow, it think its going to be a real nice shift from the army, but i did want to talk about how i felt so perhaps i could get some closure and NOT want to ever ever be put in a situation where i had to attack someone, because like the movies its not like POW hha your dead.

But i always thought if i were to go back into the army or guard, it wouldnt be infantry, probably a medic, and preferably working with the children of soldiers or something.

[Mastermind]

Yeah? Working with kids is really nice and wonderful....Might be you can get a cool job working in a day care center.

Good luck to ya.

For you, it might be better to leave the real soldiering to someone else, then.

[TheStorm]

here's my
take on it:

Phase 1: In training, you go through the motions and imagine combat...but all you have to go on are movies and TV and stories you have read. Sounds exciting and filled with glory...but you don't think it can ever really be your cup of tea.

Phase 2: You get orders to go to a peace time area in a combat unit (mine was an airborne Cav unit in Germany). You go on field problems and play soldier. It is still very unreal in your mind. The "enemy" is there, just across the fence...but, still it is not real.

Phase 3: You get orders to go to a combat zone (Vietnam)..You just S4it you pants...You don't believe it and try to get the orders changed...(I'm just in this for the education!)

Phase 4: You train really hard and get your affairs in order. You tell yourself it might be a cake walk.

Phase 5: You meet the in-country reality. the smell is the first thing everyone mentions...and it was same for me. Things got real when the AC never even stopped to let us out...a mortar attack was underway just after we landed. I was actually shocked to see strong points along the route to our hootches with real live ammo locked and loaded....the disorganization and dirt was everywhere..."I'm in it now"...thoughts.

Phase 6: Actual combat...I see my first dead American...the guy was literally split in half right beside me by a huge piece of an exploding ACAV. Again, I s*hit my pants emotionally...I was useless...had no idea what to do...crawled into a ditch...me and one other guy survived..."Welcome to hell" thoughts.

Phase 7: Getting down and dirty...doing what is expected and I'm beginning to get familiar with the combat environment. Tet, 1968 hits...we fight like hell and win! Cool....I'm beginning to see how the "danger" zones are...the effective killing range and types of terrain in which people die. Got wounded…got blown up pretty good by a recoilless rifle hit…not so bad...one guy right nest to me shot to pieces...TC got it through both legs...the LT is shot up pretty bad, too...I bandage him up. It doesn’t' seem real at all....like a funny kind of dream. I am respecting the enemy. Fire fights and dead are getting familiar...doing the job...but, still scared silly most of the time. Saw lots of rotting corpses. Can’t get used to the smell

Phase 8: Everyone I came over with are either dead or totally wounded. I'm starting to feel 'charmed' and I'm definitely developing a sense of superstition...never take point on a Friday...what day is it anyway?...Fire even if there is no target...keep their heads down. Shoot the dead enemy…make sure…kill anyone who is in enemy terriroty unless proven friendly…watch out for mines...Best friend got killed…really got to me…crying a lot…can’t stop crying…really embarrassing. My personal rules are more important now than my training. I'm starting to actually get into things.

Phase 9: Things are tough, exhaustion is setting in. I'm jumpy. Don't give a damn about anything. I don't figure I'm going to survive this. Lost lots of guys...watched three tanks burn up with crews inside...saw guys turned to red spray by direct hit...I just hope I get killed quick...damn sure don't want to get mangled like so many friends I have seen, they lost arms...lost face, lost hands...I'm starting to enjoy killing the enemy...volunteering for ambush patrols… I’m doubting officers orders. ..Refuse order that are likely to get us killed...tell the officers to go to hell...even a court martial would be better than this s*hit...nothing happens...I'm crazy.

Phase 10: I’m really chilly now...I don't know why, but my fear is gone...what a relief...it feels really good not to be afraid anymore...I love this s*hit. I don't talk to anyone. They are all going to die anyway. No one talks to me, not even officers. I must look terrible, probably stink pretty bad. Haven’t had a bath in weeks…don’t care anyway...ha...Jerry's blood is still on my pants and I can't get it washed out...might be some of his brains are there too...can't tell what that is.......use up lots of water trying every day to wash it out...it stinks bad...can't get that smell out of my nose.. I love sharpening my bayonet and my .50 is a true friend…clean it constantly. People get wounded or killed on my track I don’t pull out of the line…I keep going for the enemy…The only joy I have is seeing them bleed....it's almost like an orgasm. I shoot my last enemy solider…repeatedly…dumped full belt of 50 rounds in him…saw his arms and legs come off - - - - .God I love this s*it!

That’s the way it was for me…I had a really hard time when I came home…I couldn’t handle the peace. Everyone around me seemed like total pussies…got in lots of fights...I went off to live in the desert for about six months by myself...got my head on straight...the nightmares started about a year later and have never stopped. I still on occasion can smell Jerry's blood...sound of Hueys flying over brings it all back.

That’s what it “feels” like!


Amazing post.

[Caper]

Mastermind, Thank you for sharing that. For real

[Mastermind]

You are certainly welcome. I only hope it sheds some light on what happens to people who survive real combat...but, I'm not wanting to feel 'special' over it...it is what millions of fighting men have lived through....Sherman said it best: "War is hell on earth."

[Caper]

Yeah my Grandfather was a Jewish Canadian Commando in WW2 and he never talked about it. Thats always how you know the real guys who have been there, they arent pounding their chests. The definition of class.

[oregongrunt]

Phase 10: I’m really chilly now...I don't know why, but my fear is gone...what a relief...it feels really good not to be afraid anymore...I love this s*hit. I don't talk to anyone. They are all going to die anyway. No one talks to me, not even officers. I must look terrible, probably stink pretty bad. Haven’t had a bath in weeks…don’t care anyway...ha...Jerry's blood is still on my pants and I can't get it washed out...might be some of his brains are there too...can't tell what that is.......use up lots of water trying every day to wash it out...it stinks bad...can't get that smell out of my nose.. I love sharpening my bayonet and my .50 is a true friend…clean it constantly. People get wounded or killed on my track but I don’t pull out of the line…I keep going for the enemy…The only joy I have is seeing the bastards bleed....it's almost like an orgasm. I shoot my last enemy solider…repeatedly…dumped full belt of 50 rounds in him…saw his arms and legs come off - - - - .God I love this s*it!



That’s what it “feels” like!

This guy needs some help. I never met or knew anyone so bloodthirsty after a battle. It sounds like a lot of bragging about questionable exploits to me. Please don't make a comment on this unless you've been there.

[Chops]

I agree OG- all I could smell from here is BS...

[kayaker]

indeed, esspecially after the nasty commend of "workin with children - real nice... let the real soldiering be done by someone else"

as you really went through all those classic signs of PTSD you should not wish for someone else to suffer everything you had to go through...

[Mastermind]

That's okay...get out of it what ever you want. But, do me a favor...not that you think I deserve one...go do it...experience it..re read it ..then tell me about it being BS.

The guy asked...I contributed what it's like...

[oregongrunt]

That's okay...get out of it what ever you want. But, do me a favor...not that you think I deserve one...go do it...experience it..re read it ..then tell me about it being BS.

The guy asked...I contributed what it's like...

What war were you in? I'm not being rude, just curious. There's quite a few vets on here from conflicts all over the world.

[Mastermind]

By the post, you might see Tet 1968 mentioned. My avitar is me just before that began..the trees in the background are the rubber trees of Song Be. After this battle, which lasted several days, we went to Camp Eaglem just south of Hue, where we secured the countryside after the Marines re-took the city. Our areas of operations were essentially north and south of the city and east of Hwy 1. ZOur job was to wander around the countryside seeking enemy contact...which usually manifested in an ambush...at that point, like good armored scouts, we held contact until heavier units could come in and destry the enemy. Most of the time, the initial contact was over by the time reinforcement arrived...we had 7 ACAV's (M-113's outfitted as AFVs) armed with one .50 MG and two 7.62 M-60's ...