michael moore if he lied how come nobody sued him?

[martinexsquaddie]

its the USA the NRa are not short of money
So how come there's no lawsuit against mike it's like your national sport suing people?

[SOG]

its the USA the NRa are not short of money
So how come there's no lawsuit against mike it's like your national sport suing people?

lied about which issue? in moores case he always has clearance because he tells half truths which technically arent lies. he'll state something like a number of gun related deaths and make it sound bad, but wont tell you what they are in relation to. thats more or less his game, state something, and hope to god no one does research. using stuff out of context has been done forever. so technically it isnt lying but presenting facts a certain way are. he's no worse than all media outlets except he choses very hot topics and attacks directly making him more of a target himself. the fat pile will prolly die from to many twinkies stuck in his mud butt before someone beats his ass for going to far.

[George W. Bush]

Bowling for Columbine was drivel. You can't sue someone for making drivel.

[mocking_loudly_died]

The NRA are to busy amending the constitution to include the use of High powered 20mm nuke filled cyanide tipped “praise Jesus” rifles for home defence.

I smell commies, socialists and the king of England!

[George W. Bush]

A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

My inalienable rights are being infringed.

[martinexsquaddie]

so how come Stupid white men made no1 non fiction book last year if its all lies rofl

[Shake n Bake]

"Oh, I don't like your gun culture...It frightens me!"


Here's a Bandaid for your pussy, Martinxsquaddie

http://www.keysan.com/pictures/sjoj3644.jpg

[Luxembourger]

you could make a movie like BFColumbine on any country!

For exemple you can make a movie about Belgium ( nothing against that country or their people, my mum is belgian too,but their justice sucks) and show how well treated rapists are , getting the best lawyer while victims have to save money to pay an average lawyer in order to fight for their murdered raped children.

[spoonman]

so how come Stupid white men made no1 non fiction book last year if its all lies rofl


because people in general are ignorant morons. example; let us look at this board as a microcosm. there are fewer than 3-5% of active posters who actually posses the ability to reason with someone using facts and logic. this same minority usually questions what they read/hear/see on t.v. instead of taking everything someone tells them as fact. the other 95-97% are idiots, they do not posses the intelligence to form coherent arguments that are based on fact and logic. they spew the same things over and over again, making any argument they engage in pointless and stupid. they do not want to learn things, instead letting vacuous emotion dictate what they say and how they feel. this majoritiy believes everything they hear/read/see on t.v. and as such are so misinformed and ingrained with false information that it would be better if they weren't allowed to speak in polite company and permanently assigned to the children's table.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

because people in general are ignorant morons.Quite wrong most people in general are neither ignorant or moronic they maybe just do not see things from your own perspective, this is an issue that you will have to deal with because it may hinder your development as a human being.

the other 95-97% are idiotsAs militaryphotos despite being mostly men does represent a broad cross section of society so to class a person as an idiot they would have to have an IQ of well below 70 but this section of society is comprised of no more than 2.2% of the population, and yet many of them would still be able to form coherent arguments when required.
they do not posses the intelligence to form coherent arguments that are based on fact and logic. And you do?

[martinexsquaddie]

bite :lol:
not really worried about you gun culture its your problem :roll:
I'd rather follow the swiss example given the choice.
I happen to think michael moore's intelligent and funny the fact that so many americans brought his book proves there is intelligent live out there
rather than armed rednecks with ayn rand paperbacks rofl

[Argyll]

Why would you need Militias if you have the most poerful Army in the World?
These Militias are frightening,and they're full of racists and nutters from what I can gather,though no doubt there are descent Militias........but what purpose do they serve?

[mocking_loudly_died]

Militias exist to make me laugh.

"Gawd dang socialist insurgents, I got my AR-15 and if some socialist froggies come here wanting some of our freedom fries, it's on biatch!"

Cough.

Wait, haven't we already had this debate?

[George W. Bush]

Sorry to break up your moron-parade but there are millions of law-abiding gun owners in the U.S. Just like how there are millions of idiots who buy Michael Moore crap.

[Elmo]

These militias are problematic.

They believe that the government is not to be trusted and therefor they reserve the right to defend themselves.

I think it really shows how twisted representative democracy sometimes is. In theory the members of the militia also constitute the government but the outcome as they see it is always negative.

They might also be compensating something with their big and powerful weapons.

[California Joe]

The guns I build have 42 inch barrels.


Shut up.


I don't have a complex.


Do not.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

CJ do you do any forge work when you are constructing your weapons or is it kit form you work from, are matchlocks ever made and shot over there.

[California Joe]

Very little forging. Maybe the ocassional triggerguard. I buy the parts and the wood in blank form or with just the barrel channel cut as that is a huge pain in the arse to cut. So it's more gunstocking than gunsmithing except for finishing the metal, drilling all the holes etc. The component parts out right now are very high quality. I know a couple of guys that have matchlocks. There are actually a few matchlock shooters around in this country. I mostly build flint longrifles.

[martinexsquaddie]

well my soviet UN armoured column will be along soon to collect them :lol:
when I can finally round them up from chasing Bubba and his pals around with BMPS
so of those fatboys can get quite a run of speed up when they realize a custom .45acp is not much use against a T 72 rofl

[SOG]

These militias are problematic.

what militias? our militias? your militias? names of militias? how many? where? all of them? generalization? stereotypes?


They believe that the government is not to be trusted and therefor they reserve the right to defend themselves.

do you trust our government? rofl


They might also be compensating something with their big and powerful weapons.

uhmmm.... yeah.... :roll:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Some links for all those interested in militias.

http://www.adl.org/extremism/arizona/

http://www.adl.org/mwd/

[SOG]

Why would you need Militias if you have the most poerful Army in the World?
These Militias are frightening,and they're full of racists and nutters from what I can gather,though no doubt there are descent Militias........but what purpose do they serve?

we hardly have any and of any numerous size so i really doubt its about defending the US against some "threat" because they would be wholly inefective in the big picture.

i wouldnt say militias are frightning, id just say there a bit queer. some are used for searching for lost people in low density population states by police along with official rescue workers, some teach survival and hunting somtimes running along with thier belief oil or a economy might collapse society and they might have to fend for themselves. some are wholly racsist but are branded as just that and disregarded as insane militias. some are post apocalyptic militias believing the end is nigh or anti gov, some are guys that hang out to drink, bbq and shoot for fun. hell some militias are family events, boyscouts for the whole family. some militias organize small gun shows or gun awareness or some are actually very political simply to raise important issues to them.

they really serve only self purposes or beliefs and are about as standout as any group that gets together to chat. only time i hear about them is when one does something bad. its been years since they crossed the mass media radar. they really are not an issue out here especially in a country this size, and the average american probably could not even form a general opinion of a modern day militia because they never hear about them.



Some links for all those interested in militias.

http://www.adl.org/extremism/arizona/

http://www.adl.org/mwd/


i see you select your links very carefully.

[Elmo]

what militias? our militias? your militias? names of militias? how many? where? all of them? generalization? stereotypes?


do you trust our government? rofl



What militias? I was referring to citizens trained as soldiers (either by the army or by themselves) who are not part of the regular army nor national guard. Independent groups of soldiers. In America. The thread was about Michael Moore, ring a bell? Also previous posts referred to american militia.

It doesn't really matter if I trust your government. It is not responsible to me. My government doesn't really trust any governments (they claim otherwise) so they forced me out of my home to practice killing for a year. In a way I don't trust your government either because my government represents me.

[SOG]

What militias? I was referring to citizens trained as soldiers (either by the army or by themselves) who are not part of the regular army nor national guard. Independent groups of soldiers. In America. The thread was about Michael Moore, ring a bell? Also previous posts referred to american militia.

well thats why i asked. when you state


These militias are problematic.
They believe that the government is not to be trusted and therefor they reserve the right to defend themselves.

i was curious as to which ones? did you not understand my question/s? id like to know which militias are problematic? what are thier names? how many groups? how many standing members? do they constitute any threat in a nation of 290 million people? which ones dont trust the government? in what capacity do they not trust they government or are they all lumped together? what are there beliefs? are any cross connected constituting a larger threat? how do these numbers comapre to the mellow miltitia's? what do they do? how often dothey get together? what do they talk about? what constitutes a general mdoern day militia?

hell, over half the population doesnt trust the government on one level or another wether it be foreign policy, medicare or retirement. why not make the same general assumptions about black people? black+bad neighborhood must mean criminal and crack? hence my question about stereotypes and general assumptions. really, im curious.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

People are always going to have there own opinions, the sad thing is that if they some how are different from others, they get bashed and brought down. So much for free speech, but hey what does that say for the people that are doing it? ;)

[Elmo]

Well well, SOG.

You know pretty well that I can't answer those questions. I'm not doing a study on different groups calling themselves militia in the United States of America. Even if I was, you posted way too many factors...it would be a major work. I'm really sorry if I let you down. My post may have been too generalized. Sorry for that too.

However, the thread mentioned Michael Moore and militia, which you completely ignored, probably on purpose. The issue at hand is the freedom to carry guns, lots of them. In Bowling for Columbine Moore interviews the Michigan Militia and that former Oklahoma City suspect..Nichols? The distrust towards one's government comes from there. Politically, democratically speaking it is problematic.
Unfortunately I have no idea what different militias are talking about.

Please accept my apologies for my lack of accuracy and prepare to see your posts scrutinized to a detail.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Some links for all those interested in militias.

http://www.adl.org/extremism/arizona/

http://www.adl.org/mwd/


i see you select your links very carefully.
One does try, I was going to link to some militia sites but I feared the topic would be locked as their content is somewhat disturbing so I linked too the ADL website in the US its orientation is neither left nor right so it should not offend anyone.

[Seraphim]

Oklahoma City bombing

[Durandal]

Why would you need Militias if you have the most poerful Army in the World?
These Militias are frightening,and they're full of racists and nutters from what I can gather,though no doubt there are descent Militias........but what purpose do they serve?

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with the concept of the "modern Militias" you see in the United States today. In fact, many States have outlawed their formation. Not only that, I personally....a super pro gun advocate I mayt add, feel that the militias actually provide the opossite of what they claim...they are in deed racist and usualy severely anti-federal.

Legally, these militias are actually NOT militias...

Here is why in layman terms...

A while back it was decided that there were THREE parts of the malitia. One, the Naval Reserves/Militia. Two, the Organized Militia. Three, the Unorganized Militia.

Now, after this, there was ruling that determined the National Guard was indeed the Organized Militia. No problem there.

The unorganized militia is simply (as determined by each State) the male body of the population, usually between the ages of 19 and 45.

That's it. It is as simpel as that.

Technically I am part of the militia. As is every other male ages 19 and 55 in MY State. I do not have the "right" to train n a military fashion, but I do have the right to own a gun.

Both sides of the fence on this one are usually fair looney. On one side you have the militias, who are filled to the brim with nuts to begin with, then you have people like Michael Moore and the Bradys that compare the NRA and pro-gun folks to the militia.

Drives me nuts.

Both sides need to simply vanish.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Every year I take part in militia reenactment shows.
I get out the uniform (Truckers cap, moldy shirt with “spec ops” print and two sizes too big cargo’s) and proceed to represent the great American tradition of re-telling militia lore.

Drinking beer and blaming the government for Jews owning our country.

Amen.

[Ichhabe]

What worries me when seeing the militia on TV is that they tend to have Norwegian surnames. Specially when they are out filming in the mid-west.

But I agree that the spectrum of the militia movement is quite interesting. Going from far out paranoia to the lovable almost "rock of the community".

In my early days on the Internet I learned to use IRC. The first channel I was on was #militia on Dalnet.
There I was welcomed and I had some interesting debates with the members of that channel. Most of them where, as we refer too: normal people. Some, and they were actually in a minority.
I remember one that said he was trapped behind enemy lines. It turned out that he lived in California. But he spelled it Kalifornia when ever he said were he was.

I see nothing wrong in the American militia movement as long as it is based on the fundament of "American heritage." But when they get totally paranoid, that is when one should ring warning bells.

As I see it, the militia movement is an American "speciality". But someone will always over do it.

[SOG]

The thread was about Michael Moore, ring a bell? Also previous posts referred to american militia.

yes thats why the 2nd poster in the topic, me, addressed how michael moore works. did you miss that? we have had several discussions about him and every time someone proves hes not "lying", he's just telling half the truth to show things in a certain light which is as good as lying in this society. also his bowling for columbine movie has been talked about here before and again refuted in its accuracey/intent.

i asked all those questions because i was wondering if you just saw a "movie" and formed an entire opinion of all groups from that or if you actually knew of some numbers that proved all militias are whacky cracky. usually serious flame wars errupt when someone says something that "general" about a countries people. luckily this time it was about gun toting hillbillies.

[Durandal]

Michael Moore technically never lied, nor did he claim it was a documentary. Everyone else did though.

Call it political satire, social commentary, or an op ed piece. For that is what they are, not true fact and not complete fiction.

Nor was anything he did enough to get sued over. No libel no slander...defamation? None of that either...

Bah, I am tired. Hank could probably give you a more technical side of Moore's liability.

I also like to think that as a movie director anything he does is protected under the 1st Amendment.

Not because I like his work (I hate it), but the principle behind its protection. Of course I defend one of his rights while he attacks one of mine, but hey...America wouldn't be so wacky if stuff like that did not happen.

[FallenAngel]

Why would you need Militias if you have the most poerful Army in the World?
These Militias are frightening,and they're full of racists and nutters from what I can gather,though no doubt there are descent Militias........but what purpose do they serve?

The Second Amendment has nothing to do with the concept of the "modern Militias" you see in the United States today. In fact, many States have outlawed their formation. Not only that, I personally....a super pro gun advocate I mayt add, feel that the militias actually provide the opossite of what they claim...they are in deed racist and usualy severely anti-federal.

Legally, these militias are actually NOT militias...

Here is why in layman terms...

A while back it was decided that there were THREE parts of the malitia. One, the Naval Reserves/Militia. Two, the Organized Militia. Three, the Unorganized Militia.

Now, after this, there was ruling that determined the National Guard was indeed the Organized Militia. No problem there.

The unorganized militia is simply (as determined by each State) the male body of the population, usually between the ages of 19 and 45.

That's it. It is as simpel as that.

Technically I am part of the militia. As is every other male ages 19 and 55 in MY State. I do not have the "right" to train n a military fashion, but I do have the right to own a gun.


Indeed, that's what the rules say. Although, it's an age set by the United States Code (federal law.) which states the unorganized militia is any able bodied male between 17 and 45 that could be called up in a time of war. Granted the Supreme Court decision that exstablished this was in the early 1800s, but nothing since has overruled it.

So the next time you hear some Dem saying the average American has no need for a firearm, you can then politely and correctly point out they are ignorant people talking out of their ass. :D

[Durandal]

Indeed, that's what the rules say. Although, it's an age set by the United States Code (federal law.)...

It is also a State issue, which of course muddies it up since the State can also call up militia and defines its militia...


Granted the Supreme Court decision that exstablished this was in the early 1800s, but nothing since has overruled it.

The 2nd Amendment is the LEAST (well except for Quartering troops) fought over Amendment in the Constitution of the United States. The Supreme court avoids it like the plague.

[FallenAngel]

The 2nd Amendment is the LEAST (well except for Quartering troops) fought over Amendment in the Constitution of the United States. The Supreme court avoids it like the plague.

Damn right it is. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the one to order God knows how many million Americans to hand over their firearms.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I am not a Southerner, and was brought up in a pretty liberal environment (in terms of gun-control, abortion, religion etc.) But until some changes the 2nd amendment I dont see how normal people can be forbidden from legally purchasing (maybe with a "sin" tax) a firearm (as long as it is no t RPG or an abrams tank) If the majority of Americans are against it, then amend the damn Constitution, until that point STFU.
That goes for everyperson who holds the NYtimes as gospel and believes in their punchline" "when the constitution was created, we didnt have sophisticated firearms...bla bla bla......Conservatives are a bunch of crusaders.....bla bla bla bla bla...........lets ban all guns......bla bla bla bla bla...
The constituion is a pretty dynamic piece of document, if an amendment is getting irrelevant with the times, you can always change it (provided you have the support of your constituency) otherwise quit bitching.

[UkrainianAmerican]

O, and ADL is becoming more and more irelevant every day. THey sound like a polite version of Al sharpton sometimes....

[GrantT]

From BowlingForTruth.com:


"If he's such a liar, then why hasn't anyone sued him for defamation?"

Because they wouldn't win. The reason Lockheed, those interviewed, the nation of Canada or Charlton Heston haven't sued Michael Moore is because it's a hassle that has little to no promise of pay off. Lawsuits or even vigorous pursuits to clear their names by any of the pre-mentioned would only make them look more foolish under the scrutiny of the media eye and every person reading this knows it. That is why I made the site. Because it's not that those defamed in BFC can't or even simply won't make large public efforts to defend themselves - it's just not a prudent move for most of them. But regardless - This question is silly because the one who asks it never applies the logic to Michael Moore. He says that anyone saying that there is something false in Bowling For Columbine is committing libel, yet he pursues no action against any of the 'libelers'. The best he does is post a pathetic page on his website that just makes fun of his critics and contains more of his staple spin, lies and distortions.

[Shake n Bake]

Wow...just gobbling down all that propaganda you've been fed all your lives about guns


like sheeps to the slaughter..

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Its not a fear of guns that makes folk distrust and fear militias its statements like the following.
"Am I angry with my government? You bet I am," Hicks said. "Why do I fear my government? A few names like Waco, and Ruby Ridge... it used to be someone breaking in your house with a ski mask to take your stuff would be called a terrorist, a criminal. Now they're called cops, serving a warrant and confiscating your possesions."



"Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) “is working against the
American People and we have said so over and over again.” The
American people, according to Spencer, “are beginning to realize that
we were right all along. We intend to give 'em hell.”


Chris Simcox said“There’s
something very fishy going on at the border. The Mexican army is
driving American Vehicles – but carrying Chinese weapons.
If you want to defend your country or constitution join the military, government agency or get involved politics local or national, don't run around the countryside like a loon having mock exercises against the army of the New World Order.

Below are some nutty militia types, the fat loon on the far right (no pun intended) made the first statement at the top of the post.
http://www.mindspring.com/~kubla/images/sccm/tuning3.JPG

[HELEX]

Every 2 weeks there is a Story in the news about 6 year old children shooting at their Brother or sister with Daddys Gun in the USA. Wouldnt it be usefull to ensure that anybody who wants to buy a Gun has an at least 1 Month long safety and shooting training with a demanding test at the end to ensure that NO ****ING STUPID IDIOT is allowed to buy a Gun?

In Germany it is even allowed to buy semiautomatic evil looking "assault rifles" when you are qualified yourself as a Competition-Shooter or Hunter what is quite difficult and impossible when you are known as violent/criminal or sth.
Every single Weapon is registered and if you drive drunken or get violent or do other stupid things you will loose you License forever....

[FallenAngel]

Every 2 weeks there is a Story in the news about 6 year old children shooting at their Brother or sister with Daddys Gun in the USA. Wouldnt it be usefull to ensure that anybody who wants to buy a Gun has an at least 1 Month long safety and shooting training with a demanding test at the end to ensure that NO f*** STUPID IDIOT is allowed to buy a Gun?

That's not technically true. Does it happen? Tragically, yes, but not as often as you'd think. There are laws to prevent this sort of thing. Some require the weapon to be in a place out of the reach of children (a top shelf in a closet), in a gun safe, with a trigger lock on it, and storing the ammo for the weapon somewhere OTHER than where the weapon is.

Usually when these accidents happen, it's because someone wasn't following the law. Same senario with cars, sports, etc. You don't follow the rules- someone gets hurt. If you follow all the rules, everything is fine.

[HELEX]

Same senario with cars, sports, etc. You don't follow the rules- someone gets hurt. If you follow all the rules, everything is fine.

An 1 month training will ensure that everybody who owns Firearms knows that they are no Toys. And it will ensure they KNOW these Laws you are talking about. Even Persons who are too stupid to get a driving license can buy Firearms in the US.

[Durandal]

[An 1 month training will ensure that everybody who owns Firearms knows that they are no Toys. And it will ensure they KNOW these Laws you are talking about. Even Persons who are too stupid to get a driving license can buy Firearms in the US.

Why would I need to spend an ENTIRE month to learn gun safety?

and let me guess, I would have to pay for the course...

Absurd.

If you had to take a class, a weekend afternoon will teach you all you need about gun safety.

I wonder if we should have saftey classes for fireworks too. What about chainsaws (cutting trees is one of the most dangerous occupations/chores in America right now). What about golf? Bow hunting? Swimming? Bike riding?

The list goes on and on.

Requiring a fire arms saftey course will do nothing to prevent stupidity. Driver's Education is PERFECT example of that.

If anyone wants to protect their children, take them out to shoot, show them how it is done safely, and join the NRA. The NRA has a massive child safety program...with courses and plenty of literature.

Alos, one more thing. What does driving drunk have to do with gun ownership? If they are driving drunk take away their driving privledges.

And screw putting a name on a list...that is the last thing ANYONE that respects democracy and liberty should want.

Finally, enforce gun related crimes rather than giving them a slap on the wrist...