5 Killed in Haiti; Marines Return Fire

[Seraphim]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040307/capt.xrm13403072259.haiti_xrm134.jpg

U.S. Marines patrol the streets of Port-au-Prince, Haiti after a shooting erupted during a march of opponents of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, Sunday, March 7, 2004. (AP Photo/Dario Lopez Mills)



PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - Three U.S. Marines returned fire during Sunday's attack on protesters around Haiti's National Palace that left at least five dead and 30 injured, Marine Maj. Richard Crusan told The Associated Press.



The Marines reacted when gunmen shot at thousands of unarmed protesters in Port-au-Prince demanding that ousted President Jean-Bertrand Aristide be tried for alleged corruption and killings by his armed militants.


At least four demonstrators and a foreign journalist were killed.


"Three Marines fired from the palace in the direction from which the shots were being fired," Crusan told the AP.

[Ratamacue]

That article is worde really poorly. It makes it sound like the Marines fired on the protestors.

[Maverick77]

That article is worde really poorly. It makes it sound like the Marines fired on the protestors.

wheres it say that

[Ratamacue]

It doesn't say it directly, the way it's worded.


Three U.S. Marines returned fire during Sunday's attack on protesters around Haiti's National Palace that left at least five dead and 30 injured, Marine Maj. Richard Crusan told The Associated Press.

I'm not accusing the writer of bias or anything, I just think he could have done a better job with it.

[Maverick77]

Yeah I can kinda see where your comin from...

the only word in there that makes you know that the Marines didnt shoot the protesters is "returned".

So knowing theres a lot of stupid people out there I see what you mean

[USMarine3521]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040307/capt.xrm13403072259.haiti_xrm134.jpg

now that's badass.

hmm if they are FAST then they should have at least m4's if not the m16a4, I read that the only Marines that get the m4 is Recon and the Security Forces.

can anyone verify this?

[Ratamacue]

now that's badass.

hmm if they are FAST then they should have at least m4's if not the m16a4, I read that the only Marines that get the m4 is Recon and the Security Forces.

can anyone verify this?

I've seen FAST teams with a mix of both M4's and M16's. I'm pretty sure that not everyone in Haiti now is with FAST in any case.

[Ratamacue]

now that's badass.

hmm if they are FAST then they should have at least m4's if not the m16a4, I read that the only Marines that get the m4 is Recon and the Security Forces.

can anyone verify this?

I've seen FAST teams with a mix of both M4's and M16's. I'm pretty sure that not everyone in Haiti now is with FAST in any case.

[mustamato]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,443947,00.html

According to this article in a swedish newspaper the Marines did nothing,
(Yes, they have reporters there, and the picture is taken by them):

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0403/08/NYHETER-08s12-haiti1-65_368.jpg
Civilians flee while armed police officers take cover

- The Marines come here with their big weapons, but do nothing, says
demonstrator Rosier Nixon, 32, to Aftonbladet.

During the shooting there was American Marines nearby - But it took them
half an hour to intervene.
- Where are the Americans, shouted the people.
- If they can´t deal with things that happen 300 meters away, they have
nothing here to do, says Amos Charles.

[Sixgun Symphony]

It looks like the Marines have gone over to a brown suede leather boot in that picture above.

There is only one Marine with the black combat boots, the others are wearing the brown boots.

Will any marines here care to comment on these new boots?

[Elmo]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38833-2004Mar7.html

Well, according to this three marines fired at some direction.
They must have been scared and confused.

[Sixgun Symphony]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38833-2004Mar7.html

Well, according to this three marines fired at some direction.
They must have been scared and confused.

That the story came from a leftist rag like the Washington Post, I would doubt the reporting.

BTW, I notice your avatar is the communist clenched fist. I find that an odd choice for a person from Finland. Perhaps your family were communists trying to help the Soviet Red Army during the Winter War?

[Elmo]

BTW, I notice your avatar is the communist clenched fist. I find that an odd choice for a person from Finland. Perhaps your family were communists trying to help the Soviet Red Army during the Winter War?

This particular fist has more to do with Rage Against the Machine. Great lyrics.

Even if my family were communists, what would that mean to me? Nothing. I wasn't born back then. I don't get credit from things I haven't done (especially military victories) nor do I take blame. Everyone is only responsible for one's own actions.

Did you get irritated because I said that maybe the American marines very a little scared and especially confused? Must have been a tough spot to be there in Haiti. Riots must be quite scary and confusing no matter what training you have.

[Sixgun Symphony]

This rock band "Rage Against the Machine" have communist politics. Their lyrics and the symbols they use are communist.

If they were alive during the 1930's, they might have been commissars leading the soviet forces into your country.

I get irritated with the communist and socialist Europeans who bash my country. Now most Finlanders have been ok, but you look to be a communist due to your avatar and the usual snide comments that normally come from the reds and pinks in Europe.

I find it rather odd for a Finlander to use communist symbols what with the history of the war and all. So I just had to wonder what side of the Winter War you would be on.

[mustamato]

I find it rather odd for a Finlander to use communist symbols what with the history of the war and all. So I just had to wonder what side of the Winter War you would be on.

The social democratic parties was during the last century quite popular in the
Nordic countries, I guess those are left enough to be classified as "communists"
in USA, however it seems that the voters is going more right nowadays, (which
would would translate to the left wing of your Democrats).

I can´t exactly say that our countries have suffered from that economically
or from "the freedom of each individual" point of view. Some reading for you:

http://virtual.finland.fi/

[Elmo]

Ok, I see.

You have to differentiate communism as an ideology and Soviet communism in practice. I'm not promoting Soviet style dictatorships, nor am a communist. Anti-globalization? Yes. Green? Yes. On the left? Yes.

I hope Kerry will win. Does that mean I bash your country? Your pro-Bush, pro-military force comments are as snide to "European reds and pinks" as theirs are to you.

Let's leave Winter War out of this.

Or if we stick to it I'd have to ask if your family or you were participating in the witch-hunt ignited by McCarthyist paranoia?

[Uncle Chô]

That the story came from a leftist rag like the Washington Post, I would doubt the reporting.

BTW, I notice your avatar is the communist clenched fist. I find that an odd choice for a person from Finland. Perhaps your family were communists trying to help the Soviet Red Army during the Winter War?
:cantbeli: This so is pathetic Mr "I know all"... What gives you the rights to rule the world ? Because you think an avatar on the Internet reflects the person in life ? You would be surprised of my personal political choices...

BTW : you may be a leftist gay American (Oh my God !) hidden behind your carefully selected rethoric, avatar and signatures rofl

[Shake n Bake]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,443947,00.html

According to this article in a swedish newspaper the French did nothing,
(Yes, they have reporters there, and the picture is taken by them):

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0403/08/NYHETER-08s12-haiti1-65_368.jpg
Civilians flee while armed police officers take cover

- The French come here with their big weapons, but do nothing, says
demonstrator Rosier Nixon, 32, to Aftonbladet.

During the shooting there was French soldiers nearby - But it took them
half an hour to intervene.
- Where are the French, shouted the people.
- If they can´t deal with things that happen 300 meters away, they have
nothing here to do, says Amos Charles.


OR





http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,443947,00.html

According to this article in a swedish newspaper the Canadians did nothing,
(Yes, they have reporters there, and the picture is taken by them):

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0403/08/NYHETER-08s12-haiti1-65_368.jpg
Civilians flee while armed police officers take cover

- The Canadians come here with their big weapons, but do nothing, says
demonstrator Rosier Nixon, 32, to Aftonbladet.

During the shooting there was Canadian soldiers nearby - But it took them
half an hour to intervene.
- Where are the Canadians, shouted the people.
- If they can´t deal with things that happen 300 meters away, they have
nothing here to do, says Amos Charles.

[mustamato]

Shake N Bake, it was the Americans that was 300 meters from the place,
(where the Swedish journalists were) not the French or the Canadians, and
also the people were shouting for the Americans.

[ibstolidude]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,443947,00.html

According to this article in a swedish newspaper the Marines did nothing,
(Yes, they have reporters there, and the picture is taken by them):

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0403/08/NYHETER-08s12-haiti1-65_368.jpg
Civilians flee while armed police officers take cover

- The Marines come here with their big weapons, but do nothing, says
demonstrator Rosier Nixon, 32, to Aftonbladet.

During the shooting there was American Marines nearby - But it took them
half an hour to intervene.
- Where are the Americans, shouted the people.
- If they can´t deal with things that happen 300 meters away, they have
nothing here to do, says Amos Charles.

Thank goodness they didn't do anything lest you would have accused them of being imperialistic.

Pehaps you just look to critique anything the US military does, I have yet to read a viable solution for the situation from you. I would venture the reason they did little was that it deviated from their mission and they did not want to over step their mandate less they create a political situation.


@ ELmo - why
Well, according to this three marines fired at some direction.
They must have been scared and confused. in order to fire their weapons. Of course 90% of all the world soldiers would be a bit scared in a situation where there are huge number of Haitias in the street in a riot situation. (and there are always huge numbers of Haitians in the streets anytime things go down.)

[Elmo]

@ ELmo - why
Well, according to this three marines fired at some direction.
They must have been scared and confused. in order to fire their weapons. Of course 90% of all the world soldiers would be a bit scared in a situation where there are huge number of Haitias in the street in a riot situation. (and there are always huge numbers of Haitians in the streets anytime things go down.)

This is excactly what I meant. I would piss my pants in a situation like that. The marine major who gave the statement could be seen defending his men for not really doing anything by saying that they did fire their weapons. I don't know if it's out of context or not. Even if these trained professionals could manage their fear they must have been really confused and thinking what on earth we should do now? Who are we supposeed to defend here in this chaos? Anyway, just guessing.

[Maj C]

The brown suede boots are the new ones to go with the marpat. I like them - no more polishing. Not that I spent a lot of time doing that anyway - I'd rather see one of my Marines doing almost anything like reading a book than waste time spit shining a boot.

http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/

I went to high school with the bass player (Tim Commerford) of Rage Against the Machine..it's funny how he's turned out because he used to be kind of a Nazi punker drawing pictures of Hitler and swastikas etc. He was the neighborhood bully - he would sneak up behind you with a dog collar choke chain and choke us with it and he would grab bees by the wings and put them against you so they'd sting you...now he's a millionaire rock star...I'm a jarhead....hmmmmm...maybe communism wouldn't be so bad...

[mustamato]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,443947,00.html

According to this article in a swedish newspaper the Marines did nothing,
(Yes, they have reporters there, and the picture is taken by them):

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0403/08/NYHETER-08s12-haiti1-65_368.jpg
Civilians flee while armed police officers take cover

- The Marines come here with their big weapons, but do nothing, says
demonstrator Rosier Nixon, 32, to Aftonbladet.

During the shooting there was American Marines nearby - But it took them
half an hour to intervene.
- Where are the Americans, shouted the people.
- If they can´t deal with things that happen 300 meters away, they have
nothing here to do, says Amos Charles.

Pehaps you just look to critique anything the US military does

Or maybe I just quoted the newspaper?

[Sixgun Symphony]

Ok, I see.

You have to differentiate communism as an ideology and Soviet communism in practice.

That is like trying the differentiate national socialism from the excesses of the NSDAP regime in Germany during WWII.

[Sixgun Symphony]

The brown suede boots are the new ones to go with the marpat. I like them - no more polishing. Not that I spent a lot of time doing that anyway - I'd rather see one of my Marines doing almost anything like reading a book than waste time spit shining a boot.

http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/

I went to high school with the bass player (Tim Commerford) of Rage Against the Machine..it's funny how he's turned out because he used to be kind of a Nazi punker drawing pictures of Hitler and swastikas etc. He was the neighborhood bully - he would sneak up behind you with a dog collar choke chain and choke us with it and he would grab bees by the wings and put them against you so they'd sting you...now he's a millionaire rock star...I'm a jarhead....hmmmmm...maybe communism wouldn't be so bad...

I agree with your point about time spent on reading (or training) rather than polishing boots. The brown suede boots make alot of sense.

Tim Commerford is lucky to have been a talented musician, as he seems rather messed up in the head and I don't think a person like him could hold down a regular job.

[ibstolidude]

The brown suede boots are the new ones to go with the marpat. I like them - no more polishing. Not that I spent a lot of time doing that anyway - I'd rather see one of my Marines doing almost anything like reading a book than waste time spit shining a boot. - Now that is what troops like to hear - an officer that places priorities where they should lie... - The "Toy soldier" look has it's place in ceremonies, but that is where it should end. - Lucky you aren't in the Army, they demote people for using such intelligence.



I went to high school with the bass player (Tim Commerford) of Rage Against the Machine..it's funny how he's turned out because he used to be kind of a Nazi punker drawing pictures of Hitler and swastikas etc. He was the neighborhood bully - he would sneak up behind you with a dog collar choke chain and choke us with it and he would grab bees by the wings and put them against you so they'd sting you...now he's a millionaire rock star...I'm a jarhead....hmmmmm...maybe communism wouldn't be so bad... Now that is FUNNY!

[JC]

What weapon does the marine with the black boots have slung over his shoulder? Possibly a M79 or shotgun?