CIWS

[OzMan]

Someone directed me to a site after I requested information, and I ran across this pic:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/ciws.jpg
Pretty sweet weapon system, and a beautiful pic.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-15.htm

[Frens]

I agree! very nice pic!
I saw this gun in action on AFN News few month ago.... impressive!!!

[Midav]

Future RAM:

http://www.waffenhq.de/schiffe/rim-116ram-03.jpg

And basic Rim-116:

http://navysite.de/launcher/ram.htm

[MARINO]

Here you have a Spanish CIWS called MEROKA
http://www.futura-dtp.dk/FLEET/images/artilleri/Meroka.jpg

[Nikolas]

Very beautifully. :D
I love such systems.
Soon I shall lay out photos of the Russian systems.

[Nikolas]

http://www.laes.sbor.ru/~psv/Images/plavia_3.jpg

http://www.army.lv/Flot/Krejseri/Kirov/4.jpg

http://www.warweb.ru/KACHTAN.jpg

http://www.warweb.ru/6K30GSh.jpg

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/relama_02.jpg

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/kashtan.jpg

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/petr4.jpg

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/11-005_Kashtan.jpg

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/11-004_Kashtan.JPG

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/11-003_Kashtan.JPG

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/relama_03.jpg

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/relama_04.jpg

http://pvo.guns.ru/images/kortik/relama_01.jpg

http://www.rusarm.ru/Images/Kashtan2.jpg

[/list]

[Backis]

The Thales Goalkeeper. Uses the 30mm GAU8 thats on the A10.

Some specs (http://www.xsouth.freeserve.co.uk/goal_keeper_30mm_ciws.htm)

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/rotterdam/images/rott1.jpg

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/LCF/goalkeeper5.jpg

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/LCF/goalkeeper4.jpg

Here's one with the through-deck cruiser Invincible attached to it. ;)

http://unsd.macrossrpg.com/invincible1.jpg

[Nikolas]

http://topgun.rin.ru/images/2548_7.jpg

[usa320]

The Phlanx combined with the RAM will be one mean system.

[wyrm_142]

I'm pretty sure the gun goes away in the Block I upgrade (which gives it the RAM).

[usa320]

It shuldnt/. The double layer of protection is far better.

[Guttorm]

Heres a Norwegian CIWS...

http://www.22mtb.com/bilder2000-2001/21-40/images/mistral.jpg

And

http://www.22mtb.com/bilder1999-2000/1-20/images/gunex.jpg

:D :P

[mmackem]

The Dutch Goalkeeper system as used in the British Royal Navy, the best gun based CIWS around, beats Phalanx into a cocked hat.



http://www.warships1.com/Weapons/WNNeth_30mm_Goalkeeper_pic.jpg
http://klu.tigerteam-security.net/images/Goalkeeper.jpg

[GazB]

The Goalkeeper system is very impressive, but needs a small SAM to go with it if it is to be effective.

Gun based systems aren't much use alone against supersonic antiship missiles. The whole reason Phalanx needed RAM was to defeat supersonic AShMs. Unfortunately the Americans rely on the airpower of their carriers quite a lot and have decided to drop Phalanx so they can fit RAM... RAM being a mixing of Hellfire, Stinger and other missile parts together to make a relatively cheap missile. Rather than making more space onboard to use both systems they are replacing one with the other... in my opinion a mistake.

The Soviets and now Russians have the most experience with supersonic anti ship missiles... making quite a few different types. Their solution as seen above is a mount with two 30mm 6 barrel gatling guns with a combined rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute plus 6-8 10km range all weather SAMs. On large ships 8 mounts are fitted, on destroyer sized vessels 4 are fitted. Both are dual use and can be used against other targets like short bursts or single missile launches against speed boats or vessels not complying with commands. (ie ilegal fishing boats etc)

[usa320]

Really though, the CIWS would probably never be used on American ships.

Carriers wouldnt need em cause they would be protected by the battle group.

And aegis class ships can hit incomming missiles far away- like 70m with SM2 and now SM3 missiles before they even get in close.

[Backis]

Really though, the CIWS would probably never be used on American ships.

Carriers wouldnt need em cause they would be protected by the battle group.

And aegis class ships can hit incomming missiles far away- like 70m with SM2 and now SM3 missiles before they even get in close.

You gotta be prepared... and there are really, really nasty SSM's with low-RCS out there... While the high-altitude missiles can be detected far away, this is not so easy with sea skimmers.

Can't shoot at what you can't see.

[GazB]

You gotta be prepared...

Read this and then read it again... this is very true.

On paper the Sheffield should never have been sunk by Exocets either as its defence was supposed to be excellent. For surprise attacks or wave attacks to defeat with numbers you always need that last layer or two. Especially with sub and aircraft launched weapons. These days a weapon like the anti ship Onyx and its export models Yakhont are mach 3 sea skimmers that are very capable. In Russian service a single Oscar class sub can fire 24 of these babies while submerged with a range of 500km at mach 3 just with information from a recon satellite. Each missile can fly its own path but one missile will be designated leader and pop up at a calculated time to look for the targets... if it detects a target or targets it identifies them by looking at their size and shape and can order a missile to take it out while it continues to search for the other targets. Once it has aquired the carrier group it gives each remaining missile a target and then drops down and starts to manouver to hit its own target and fly evasive manouvers for the terminal part of the flight. If the main missile is shot down one of the other missiles will pop up and take its role, find the target data, pass it on to the other missiles and the drop down for the terminal phase.

ie these are very powerful and sophisticated weapons and can use active or passive radar homing. At least 6 of the 24 will be armed with a nuclear warhead and will fly most of the mission at 5m above the water at mach 3.

The Indian Navy has completed a joint development with the Russians to build the Bramos, which is a Yakhont with Indian electronics, and they already have Club in service ,and the Chinese already have Moskit on their Sovremmeniy class boats and are looking at Yakhont or Club for the air launched role.

(Club is like a cruise missile that flys at high subsonic speed to the target area... but at 20km rang efrom the target it launches its nose section powered by a rocket booster to mach 3 for the terminal phase...)

[usa320]

You gotta be prepared... and there are really, really nasty SSM's with low-RCS out there... While the high-altitude missiles can be detected far away, this is not so easy with sea skimmers.

Can't shoot at what you can't see.


The ships may not be able to see the Sea SKimming SSM's, but the AWAC's above the battlegroup will be able to.

[GazB]

The ships may not be able to see the Sea SKimming SSM's, but the AWAC's above the battlegroup will be able to.


Think about the problems of intercepting something traveling almost a kilometer a second at 5m above the waves. A fighter plane is just able to fly at 1/3rd that speed at that altitude and it can't maintain that speed for more than a few minutes. A sidewinder AAM has a range of about 4km at sealevel and it flies at mach 2.5. Active radar guided missiles like AMRAAM will have huge problems with false reflections off the sea and Sparrow has a pathetic kill probability against subsonic fighters let alone sea skimming missiles.

Just what exactly is the AWACs supposed to do? It might give them a few minutes warning but it can't stop it. With the Phoenix being withdrawn from service with the Tomcats the US carriers are in trouble.

[GazB]

Ooops I should point out that sinking a US carrier fleet is not childs play. There are very capable systems there on, above and under the water in a US carrier fleet and it takes coordination and systems like recon satellites and Oscar II size submarines and Backfire sized aircraft to carry a decent load of these big missiles.

It is just that very capable systems for making holes in those things are being sold to countries that like to mass produce copies and sell to all sorts of people (China). Perhaps a real replacement for a Tomcat should perhaps be suggested.