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ed316
03-27-2006, 12:41 PM
UN-Iran discussion mirrors Iraq debate

Some experts warn that the US may act independently if the UN Security Council takes too long on Iran.

By Howard LaFranchi



UNITED NATIONS, N.Y. - As the United Nations Security Council wrestles with how to curb Iran's nuclear ambitions, discussion at UN headquarters is at times as much about the council's effectiveness and America's role in the international community as it is about Iran.
Sound vaguely familiar?
Three years after the Bush administration pressed the Security Council to act on Iraq's weapons programs or face independent US action against the Baghdad regime, the UN is witnessing a strikingly similar conversation. Moreover, some experts warn that dallying by the council could prompt the US to eventually act outside the UN.
"Déjà vu," said Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov of the current standoff. He was Russia's UN ambassador during the Iraq debate.
"If that is déjà vu, so be it," responded US Ambassador to the UN John Bolton, who says the Iran case is about getting a country to comply with its international obligations.
While some key actors in the current saga have changed - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has replaced Saddam Hussein as international rogue; China and Russia, not France, are now the burr under America's saddle - much of the plot remains the same. The US complains about some council members backing down from commitments to concerted international action and warns of the council's irrelevance if it can't force Tehran to back down. Others, like China, vaunt council unity but say action at this stage should be elsewhere - in this case, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). In another parallel with Iraq, the US accuses Iran of using the delays in international action to make crucial progress towards weapons development.
"This is a test for the Security Council: Can it take up an issue like and try to be tough?" says one US official with close knowledge of the deliberations. "It's really the same message point of Iraq - whether the UN is able to enforce its own rules and regulations."
As of Wednesday morning, the Security Council appeared to be making progress on a draft statement that would outline Iran's violations of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty - the next step in what has proved to be a long and still unfolding diplomatic journey. In the draft, proposed by France and Britain, the council would not lay down sanctions and instead inform Iran how it can return to compliance with international law. The draft would direct the IAEA to report back to the council on Iran's compliance. When the IAEA should report back remains one of the contentious points. Further meetings were scheduled for Thursday and Friday.
Yet even as debate continues, some experts said the apparent difficulties in lining up behind even this rather mild rebuke suggests the council is still laboring with issues reminiscent of the Iraq debate.
"The negotiations over Iran are causing a distinct sense of déjà vu, not least among those who said at the time of the Iraq debate that it was the final chance for the Security Council to prove its worth," says Nile Gardiner, a specialist in the UN's role in international affairs at the Heritage Foundation in Washington.
"Frustration, particularly in Washington, over the UN system has only built up," he adds, "so the Iran debate is going to be hugely important for how the US deals with the Security Council - or whether it prefers to bypass it altogether in the future."
So far, the US is officially expressing confidence in the council's ability to unite behind an action plan on Iran. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, traveling in Indonesia, said Tuesday she remains confident the council will "find an appropriate vehicle for expressing the international community's solidarity."
But Mr. Bolton was scheduled to appear before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Thursday, a venue where US frustrations were likely to surface, some observers say. That is especially true in the wake of a 170-4 vote Wednesday to create a new Human Rights Council to replace the discredited UN Human Rights Commission. The US opposed the body, arguing that the criteria for council membership won't be tough enough.
For some experts, US rejection of the new Human Rights Council only adds to the sense among some countries that America is still acting as it did on Iraq.
"On the human rights [council] and increasingly on Iran the US is coming across as 'It's our way or the highway,' " says Lawrence Korb, a foreign policy analyst at the Center for American Progress in Washington.
"There's a sense the administration would love to do something more muscular on Iran, like they did in Iraq, but that what's stopping them is a lack of any good options," he adds. "That doesn't raise a lot of confidence that the US has really changed and is now set on working with the international community."



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WarriorMonk
03-27-2006, 01:30 PM
We'd be dumb to act alone again on this Iran thing. We'd frikkin' need 10 years to recover after Iraq...

usmajunk
03-27-2006, 02:07 PM
if the US wants to attack another country, it is the soverign right of a nation to do so. whether Russia and China stand up behind Iran or not, well that's thier decision too. I mean, you do have this international council that is supposed to appease conflict, but when this international council makes a rule, and does not follow through with punishment once the rule is broken, what good is it anyway?

George Washington wrote that "it is a maxim founded on the universal experience of mankind, that no nation is to be trusted farther than it is bound by its interest; and no prudent statesman or politician will venture to depart from it."

Obviously, every nation is going to want its interests represented in the UN, and will make an effort to make this so. So tf the UN seriously interferes with our interests, according to THE founding father, we are not bound to it.

caridon
03-27-2006, 05:11 PM
The big difference is that the US has lost almost all of its political godwill with the rest of the world.

If it goes alone against iran, the probability is wery high that the US will face sanctions.

/C

ed316
03-27-2006, 05:20 PM
The big difference is that the US has lost almost all of its political godwill with the rest of the world.

If it goes alone against iran, the probability is wery high that the US will face sanctions.

/C

We all know how well sanctions work. :roll:

tsuri
03-27-2006, 05:29 PM
It is pretty bold of the US to act without Security Council Sanctions here. Seems the Politicians in Washington have not learned from Iraq and want results.
Iraq was suspected through questionable intelligence material while Iran has not even done anything illegal yet. The message to the world will be wrong and more so than the Iraq War will this be an illegal War of Agression against a theoretically innocent country.

Starting a War with them, is exactly what Iran wants.

The option must be available but not with the current set of facts.

ElHombre
03-27-2006, 05:31 PM
if the US wants to attack another country, it is the soverign right of a nation to do so.

could you clarify that a little? it sounds like you're saying it's okay for any nation to attack another anytime it wants to, which nations do not have the right to do.

XxDualityxX
03-27-2006, 05:32 PM
if the US wants to attack another country, it is the soverign right of a nation to do so. whether Russia and China stand up behind Iran or not, well that's thier decision too. I mean, you do have this international council that is supposed to appease conflict, but when this international council makes a rule, and does not follow through with punishment once the rule is broken, what good is it anyway?

George Washington wrote that "it is a maxim founded on the universal experience of mankind, that no nation is to be trusted farther than it is bound by its interest; and no prudent statesman or politician will venture to depart from it."

Obviously, every nation is going to want its interests represented in the UN, and will make an effort to make this so. So tf the UN seriously interferes with our interests, according to THE founding father, we are not bound to it.
Yeah so whats the qoute for when the u.n sits around on their arse and Iran develops nukes.

budgie
03-28-2006, 10:19 AM
Here's a frickin' bone for ya. I charge that the US would probably lose if it invaded Iran. Air strikes and possibly commando raids would have limited success, but the raids in particular would bring heavy casualties. A full ground invasion like Iraq? In a country of 70 million where the US is unpopular? Against a large and reasonably well equipped armed forces by regional standards? With the mess across the border in Iraq as yet unresolved? I hate to say the US might just have its ass handed to it.