the things the chavez supporters have to do to find a job in a chavist public company

[uhramechi]

http://www.noticierodigital.com/img0603/0330_imagenimpacto.jpg

http://www.noticierodigital.com/img0603/imdia_0330.jpg


this unemployed worker crucifies himself in protest for the corruption, traffic of influences and discrimination: and try to get the atention from the president of the poor people is mean chavez..

this is men is Anibal Romero of 34 years old, he and with big group of carpenters, workers and mechanics, have 7 days of hunger protest, because the new people`s public companys ( people is mean now are of chavez) dont given job to them, so for desesperation this men Anibal decided to crucifies himself.

What is happened here??

well the problem is the chavez promised to the unemployed and poor people that he will give and share the public jobs between them or among them, so for that chavez comand the creation in each public company of "Sisdem" (Sistema de Democratización de Empleo; in english would be System of Democratization of Employment).

in what consist this system? well in system were the any person of between 15 and 65 years old can sign in, so using a random selection is choose the person to have to received the job from the public company.

so with Anibal and his unemployed patner the sign in to this system like 2 years going to 3 years ago, until the moment they no have get any job.

so with they deseperation came also frustration, because they se how persons received jobs with only one or two day after sign in to the system, they see that many people received jobs for be son, nephew, counsin, friend, relative or for have any influence inside the system of democratic employment; in the worse of the case they have not received jobs because the money of the wage or salary have been lost in corruption.

the directors of the system (by the way the director are hardcore chavist, and radical comunist and hate the american empire, for that the dont bought american SUVs only japanese SUVs ) say: " the problem is lack budget, dont exist any job for the moment, or are saboteurs of the oposition and everthing is going well.

meanwhile anibal after of be in the cross for ten hour, he was send to the hospital for the fatigue of the effort and their heart problems; Anibal romero say: "he and his group wil continue with the hunger protest until they get a jobs, we try to tal with the directors and they send us with chavez , and we try to contact him, we send letters. e-mails, but until the moment he have no answer us, we are desperate, i havea a wife and three kids, i have to support them, i work like "buhonero" ( buhonero is a illegal street seller) and what i received for that is not enough to support my family; please chavez came here and help us, give us the job your promised to us, we save you during the coup, we vote for you in the recall and for yours candidates inn the elections, help us and make your promise true".

the socialism is beautiful.

source
www.noticierodigital.com (sorry is in spanish).

[Rictor]

I can only imagine his pain. Before Chavez came to power, he had a mansion, a fleet of Mercedes and a profitable business, just like all Venezuelans. Unemployment was non-existant before that rascal showed up.

How about you show unemployment figures from before '98 and recent ones, to compare. I've seen numbers, and while unemployment obviously exists, it seems (http://www.eluniversal.com/2005/12/29/eco_ava_29A649059.shtml) unemployment is hovering around 10%, which for Latin America seems pretty amazing.

Also, for your sob story there's also a success story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4400052.stm

Here, a group of elderly people work in a vegetable co-operative; 220 unskilled women, many of them housewives who have never had a job before, work in a textile co-operative; and 139 men, many of whom have not had employment for a long time, work in a shoe co-operative.

[uhramechi]

I can only imagine his pain. Before Chavez came to power, he had a mansion, a fleet of Mercedes and a profitable business, just like all Venezuelans. Unemployment was non-existant before that rascal showed up.

well i never said before chavez was perfect, but yeah the venezuelan live better than now.

just a exemple, the minimun wage or salary, when chavez took the power the minimun salary was in 100.000 and yeah chavez increase to 465.000 in th epresent time, in a first look you can say i magnificent, but also in the same way he increase the minimum wage or salary he have devaluated the money, so when chavez took the power, each dollar was 490 bolivares, so a person with minimun wage received like 204 dollars for month. now have 465.000 bolivare of salary but with the money devaluated to 2250 bolivares for each dollar, a person with minimum salary only received with 206 dollars, so only chavez could increase in two dollars and only in a artificial way, because to the rules of the market the minimum salary should be of 350.000 bolivares. so that means the private companys cannot pay that salary so the private company have two options fired people or close the business, so many compbay choose the first option, and the people fired going to the public sector and the public sector can pay that salary because have taxes and oil income to support the population.

a exemple of the economy disaster of chavez is that before him, the people was employed in the private sector was the 70 % of the persons, now only the 40 %,, and the number is increasing, now the rest the population or work in the public sector or in illegal way in black market and informality.


How about you show unemployment figures from before '98 and recent ones, to compare. I've seen numbers, and while unemployment obviously exists, it seems unemployment is hovering around 10%, which for Latin America seems pretty amazing.

well yeah are people employed but the public sector, so that means the all the people that work for the goverment directly is mean like 3 millions almost going to 4 and increase, so a population of 26 millions of people, almost 4 millions (more or less the 15 % of the population) work for the goverment, so that mean the 40 % of the people with their taxes are working to support parasites, i forget will the oil income so high also the govemtn can make that luxury of employ all the people that want.

also by the article you show make me think you can read spanish so read this article after to say something. http://liberalismo.org/articulo/365/



Also, for your sob story there's also a success story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4400052.stm
Quote:
Here, a group of elderly people work in a vegetable co-operative; 220 unskilled women, many of them housewives who have never had a job before, work in a textile co-operative; and 139 men, many of whom have not had employment for a long time, work in a shoe co-operative.

yeah that sound very pretty, but the true is those co-operative are nothing more that public company, is mean more burocracy,more corruption and more money wwasted.

those 220 unkilled person are no, really owner of the co-operative, the people only received a permission of working in that co-operative, and not only with that any product the make and want to sell, should with the price that the goverment want to put, for exemple is a product cost 50.000 bolivares, the goverment put the price like 25.000 bolivares; so how the co-operatives can work well in the same way that any public company does, the deficit between the cost and the profits are pay with taxes and oil income, so chavez is paying to the people to work in public company with controlled prices, and very few posibilitys of survive without public money.

and thta is not the worse, a person to have a permision to work in a co-operatives should loyal to the goverment is mean vote, march and obey unconditionally to the goverment, if show any diferences witht he order of the goverment loss the permision to work in company, so really the chavez system is no really socialist system is feudalism system, chavez is a feudal lord and all the people in the co-operatives are becoming nothing more the feudal slave.

so is reallys ad see that my country afte of abolish the slavery in 1841, is appearing again but with populism blackmail.

finally i recomend you thies book "On the way to Servitude" of Friedrich A. Hayek, he 60 year ago beceme a prophet, explaing how the society like mine will becem in slave society in the order totalitarian system like the chavez is creating

[Rictor]

I've read the book (well, listen to the audiobook) and I think Hayek was reffering to the fascist dictatorships of his day, Hitler, Mussollini, Stalin and so on. And whatever you may say about Chavez, I don't thik even yo can claim that he's equal to those guys.

The basic premise of the book (and that of liberalism) is that since the state wields political power, it is necessary for the private sector to wield economic might, to ensure that power is not accumulated in one place. And I certainly agree. But what happens when you have the opposite: instead of the government taking economic power, the businesses and corporations take political power. You have the same situation, one class has all the power (and add to that the power of media) which is equally damaging to freedom. The concept of free markets implies that business should not interefere in government affairs, and that each should respect the other's "territory". If government falls into the hands of business, it will be run like a business and no business has a moral obligation, which governments do. And that's exactly what happens in states that are dominated by business interests, where the state is unable or unwilling to assert itself..

If the free market had worked, Chavez would not have been elected. What else did he have to offer? His appeal wasn't primarily cultural, nationalist, relgious or whatever, it was his promise to help the poor. Neoliberalism (even though that is not free markets) had twenty years to work it's magic, to make people's lives better. If one appraoch doesn't work, try another.

[XShipRider]

If the free market had worked, Chavez would not have been elected. What else did he have to offer?
This is what brings all saviors to power -- support from the so-called
peasantry. It's what they do with that power once they get it that
determines how the world views them.

Now let's see if President Chavez diverts attention, as well as the nation's
oil wealth, away from the very people who got him elected.

Socialists are supposedly immune to the follies and corrupting influences
of money. Time will tell.

[uhramechi]

I've read the book (well, listen to the audiobook) and I think Hayek was reffering to the fascist dictatorships of his day, Hitler, Mussollini, Stalin and so on. And whatever you may say about Chavez, I don't thik even yo can claim that he's equal to those guys.

You have right i cant claim that chavez is equal to those guys, because those guys were better persons with more intelligence than chavez.

about hayek he used like exemple the facist and comunist dictatorship of hitler, mussollini and Stalin to show how goverment can converted to a society in slave society.

when goverment no mather is if in the name of the people, increase his the power, funtions, rules, regulations, public institutions and companys, the goverment no mather is democratic elected (like hitler or chavez) will become in a totalitarian system.

is mean like happen here chavez in the same way that he increase the size of the goverment, also increase his power and control in the society.



If the free market had worked, Chavez would not have been elected. What else did he have to offer? His appeal wasn't primarily cultural, nationalist, relgious or whatever, it was his promise to help the poor. Neoliberalism (even though that is not free markets) had twenty years to work it's magic, to make people's lives better. If one appraoch doesn't work, try another.

about neoliberalism here in venezuela was try only for 3 years, make some positive effects but those effect were betrayed because the goverment in that time (when Carlos Andres Perez was in power for secon time between 1989 and 1993) devaluated the money in 80 %, the inflation increase in 60 % some monopoly of the goverment were yeah became private but still they were monopolys.

and About the market in venezuela, here since 1959 never existed a really free market, all the goverments in the democratic era have controled the market for political goals. if you search the venezuelan history the socialist always have been in power excet in the period 1959 to 1998 were soft socialism politicians, if the socialism destroy venezuela, and created the huge poverty, more socialism, specially the radical socialism of chavez will not to be a solution, is mean the cure of socialism is not more socialism.

in few words here the economic liberalism and the free market never was apply or put to work in venezuela, always have exist half socialism and half capitalims system, thta half of capitalism have make of venezuela a little more modern than other latinamerican countrys, but the socialism only have increase the poverty and misery.



This is what brings all saviors to power -- support from the so-called
peasantry. It's what they do with that power once they get it that
determines how the world views them.

Now let's see if President Chavez diverts attention, as well as the nation's
oil wealth, away from the very people who got him elected.

Socialists are supposedly immune to the follies and corrupting influences
of money. Time will tell
i can tell you where is going the money of the oil income,
the chavez family have 12 hummers, 3 private jet, houses in cuba and florida, chavez is the owener of the biggest farm of venezuela (he before have farm but was very small), the brothers and cousin of chavez, are owner companys that have received millions of dollars for contract with the goverment, the favorite close of chavez is the armani and italian clothes. that is where the money is going.

[XShipRider]

i can tell you where is going the money of the oil income,
the chavez family have 12 hummers, 3 private jet, houses in cuba and florida, chavez is the owener of the biggest farm of venezuela (he before have farm but was very small), the brothers and cousin of chavez, are owner companys that have received millions of dollars for contract with the goverment, the favorite close of chavez is the armani and italian clothes. that is where the money is going.

IF what you say is true then he's just another wealthy dictator who will
assuage the grief of the peasantry until someone gets the idea that
all they need is food, medical care and water to make them happy.
Then the real wealth will simply shift to those loyal to him. He'll need
one heckuva secret police force to keep the masses subdued.
Then it becomes getting rid of one form of subservience for another.

Again, that's IF what you say is true. I don't know and I'm too lazy to
do any research. Just my opinion.

[nick_ua]

I can only imagine his pain. Before Chavez came to power, he had a mansion, a fleet of Mercedes and a profitable business, just like all Venezuelans. Unemployment was non-existant before that rascal showed up.

thats right :D :D


i can tell you where is going the money of the oil income,
the chavez family have 12 hummers, 3 private jet, houses in cuba and florida, chavez is the owener of the biggest farm of venezuela (he before have farm but was very small), the brothers and cousin of chavez, are owner companys that have received millions of dollars for contract with the goverment, the favorite close of chavez is the armani and italian clothes.

this is something vvvvvery unussial. Ussualy people who sits on Oil pipe share their profit with the people. Everybody does that, look around, everybody, except Chaves.
Can't you see pr. bush nad his budy cheney giving away money every day for these homless and not homless people. Did you see that?