Spains Racial shame.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Europe / Spain
The Ugly Game
Racism is a widespread problem in football, and nowhere more so than in Spain. Can decent fans stand up to bigots?

By GEOFF PINGREE / BARCELONA


...Although players of African descent are routinely harassed during soccer matches, it took the three-time African Player of the Year's near departure from the field to jolt the country — or at least its media — into recognizing how entrenched racism has become among fans. Many are now asking why Spain — a country that, after the terrorist bombings in Madrid of March 11, 2004, prided itself on its tolerance toward outsiders — can't seem to curb the ugly scenes that blight its stadiums.




"What concerns me," says Javier Duran, president of the Observatory of Racism in Sport, the body created by the Spanish government to monitor xenophobic incidents, "is how generalized the phenomenon has become. At Zaragoza, it was the whole stadium chanting those ape noises, not just a handful of fans."

Interesting.

[foxtrot023]

Europe / Spain
The Ugly Game
Racism is a widespread problem in football, and nowhere more so than in Spain. Can decent fans stand up to bigots?

By GEOFF PINGREE / BARCELONA






Interesting.

Just to say, it was not the whole stadium doing it, just I handful. How I know? I was watching the game.

There is a new law coming out to strength anti racism measures.

BTW the player was Samuel Etoo from Barça

[remo williams]

Seems racism know no bounds...Question.How do Spaniards view latinos of South American origin? I had been led to believe that they look down upon them much as light skinned Latinos look down on darker skinned Latinos. As far as this goes that's fcuked up. Laws aren't going to change the sentiment only add resentment(i.e why should the gov't tell me how to think type arguement). I wonder how they'd feel about this whole border thing as there are plenty of people here who'd accuse them of sneaking across the border.

[remo williams]

edit.........................

[Wodan]

There is a new law coming out to strength anti racism measures.


fighting racism by mind-fascism, yeah great idea...

[Pvt.Anderson]

By talking of the "racist" football fans , it's mostly the extremely rightwinged "ultras" which do also exist in Italy .


Question : How do you writethe c like you did in Barca ?

[Greek soldier]

^^ You either enter the specific "Symbol" from MS Word, or buy a Spanish (or Portuguese) language Keyboard...

[foxtrot023]

Seems racism know no bounds...Question.How do Spaniards view latinos of South American origin? I had been led to believe that they look down upon them much as light skinned Latinos look down on darker skinned Latinos. As far as this goes that's fcuked up. Laws aren't going to change the sentiment only add resentment(i.e why should the gov't tell me how to think type arguement). I wonder how they'd feel about this whole border thing as there are plenty of people here who'd accuse them of sneaking across the border.

In Spain, the term latino had no meaning until a few years ago. We view south and central americans as americans, and we view any one from Europe europeans. Some inmigrants are certainly look down upon, but many are hard working and much more preferred to the morrocans. At least the sense I got is that while some South/Central American inmigrants are out to suck on the system, many just want to work, from what I was told, ecuadorians are very hard working. The derogatory term for inmigrants from the americas is "sudacas" (Sud America).

Racism on football is a relative new occurence in Spain. Certainly the hard core fans/hooligans are usually also neo nazis. The laws should be strengthen against racism.

BTW- The term "latino" is a misnomer, same with hispanic. The majority of central and south americans have an indian background (ie. Mexico, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, etc) some countries have had large european inmigrations (Argentina, Uruguay). All countries are very different, I have seen "latinos" whose last name is Meyer, Boyd or Quisqaard, or are blond and blued eye, other "latinos" have last names like Brown, Knight et al that are of african descent, and many Gonzalez, Perez, Garcia et al that have no blood ties to Spain and are pure indian strain. Likewise, why aren't philipinos considered "Latinos"? have you seen how they are called Marcos, Flores, etc, etc.

[Stormy]

Foxtrot, the term "Latino" is an ethnic/cultural classification.
Remo, why generalize a whole group ?

[tuercas]

In Spain, the term latino had no meaning until a few years ago. We view south and central americans as americans, and we view any one from Europe europeans. Some inmigrants are certainly look down upon, but many are hard working and much more preferred to the morrocans. At least the sense I got is that while some South/Central American inmigrants are out to suck on the system, many just want to work, from what I was told, ecuadorians are very hard working. The derogatory term for inmigrants from the americas is "sudacas" (Sud America).

Racism on football is a relative new occurence in Spain. Certainly the hard core fans/hooligans are usually also neo nazis. The laws should be strengthen against racism.

BTW- The term "latino" is a misnomer, same with hispanic. The majority of central and south americans have an indian background (ie. Mexico, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, Paraguay, etc) some countries have had large european inmigrations (Argentina, Uruguay). All countries are very different, I have seen "latinos" whose last name is Meyer, Boyd or Quisqaard, or are blond and blued eye, other "latinos" have last names like Brown, Knight et al that are of african descent, and many Gonzalez, Perez, Garcia et al that have no blood ties to Spain and are pure indian strain. Likewise, why aren't philipinos considered "Latinos"? have you seen how they are called Marcos, Flores, etc, etc.


the "latino"phrase was coined mostly in the US to attempt to join "chicanos"(2rd generation or older mexican americans)"pochos"(1st generation mexican americans)and other people of hispanic descent, like Puertoricans as a single ethnicity. it really has not caugth on here in Mexico or for that matter in the US.

We describe spanish speaking peoples of america, including Brazilians, as "iberoamericanos" or "hispanoamericanos". Spain is still refered to as "La Madre Patria" (the mother country) even though we are fast aproaching 200 years of independence. Spaniards are stilled looked upon as a higer cast, with the exception of galicians or basque peoples, also known here as "gallegos" and roma(gypsies) , known as "hungaros"(hungarians). it is still in fashion with the nations elite to send offspring to study in spain or to marry someone from spain, many a times women will give birth in spain so their kids can be "peninsulares"a practice dating back from the days of the colony.

i never figured out why the stereotypes of "gallegos". in comedy shows the image of the beret wearing spaniard called manolo with a hairy chest and low intelligence still persists

philipinos are not called hispanic because they no longer speak spanish, at least not as an everyday language, prefering english or the native tagalog, eventhoug their culture is extremely hispanic.

[Stormy]

tuercas, my brother is married to a Filipina and she don't understand a drop of Spanish. Especially when me and my bro visit my mother and my mom is watching TeleMundo, his wife is like, "what are they saying". p-)

[remo williams]

Foxtrot, the term "Latino" is an ethnic/cultural classification.
Remo, why generalize a whole group ?

Not generalizing,and I'm not sure where you get that. Just getting some facts straight to illustrate the differences where there are some.If i was generalizing i'd say they were all the same.I know better to know they are not.If you want generalization take two guys with the last name Garcia.One from Spain,the otherr from South America.Put em' in a bar in say Texas,Arizona,NY or La. Ask an American to tell you the difference.I wonder what you'd hear.Most likely a generalization based response. Especially from some of our geographically chalenged folks. As far as some of our politicians go or moreso the "Media"..The latino vote encompasses all spanish speaking/descent persons. I never heard the distinction made during 2004 elections of the different backgrounds of Spanish speaking people.Just the "Latino" vote. I'm just trying to find out the real on who makes that up and who better to ask?

[foxtrot023]

Foxtrot, the term "Latino" is an ethnic/cultural classification.
Remo, why generalize a whole group ?

I can understand that, but when per example saying anglo, they specifically refer to those of anglosaxon descendancy, whereas if applied inthe same way as the term hispanic, it should include Indians, Jamaicans, South Africans, Neozelanders, Aussies, antiguans, Pakistanis, etc, and yet they do not do that. Double standards?

[foxtrot023]

Not generalizing,and I'm not sure where you get that. Just getting some facts straight to illustrate the differences where there are some.If i was generalizing i'd say they were all the same.I know better to know they are not.If you want generalization take two guys with the last name Garcia.One from Spain,the otherr from South America.Put em' in a bar in say Texas,Arizona,NY or La. Ask an American to tell you the difference.I wonder what you'd hear.Most likely a generalization based response. Especially from some of our geographically chalenged folks. As far as some of our politicians go or moreso the "Media"..The latino vote encompasses all spanish speaking/descent persons. I never heard the distinction made during 2004 elections of the different backgrounds of Spanish speaking people.Just the "Latino" vote. I'm just trying to find out the real on who makes that up and who better to ask?

The funny thing is that spanish as a language does not exist. It is called Castillian ;-)

[foxtrot023]

the "latino"phrase was coined mostly in the US to attempt to join "chicanos"(2rd generation or older mexican americans)"pochos"(1st generation mexican americans)and other people of hispanic descent, like Puertoricans as a single ethnicity. it really has not caugth on here in Mexico or for that matter in the US.

We describe spanish speaking peoples of america, including Brazilians, as "iberoamericanos" or "hispanoamericanos". Spain is still refered to as "La Madre Patria" (the mother country) even though we are fast aproaching 200 years of independence. Spaniards are stilled looked upon as a higer cast, with the exception of galicians or basque peoples, also known here as "gallegos" and roma(gypsies) , known as "hungaros"(hungarians). it is still in fashion with the nations elite to send offspring to study in spain or to marry someone from spain, many a times women will give birth in spain so their kids can be "peninsulares"a practice dating back from the days of the colony.

i never figured out why the stereotypes of "gallegos". in comedy shows the image of the beret wearing spaniard called manolo with a hairy chest and low intelligence still persists

philipinos are not called hispanic because they no longer speak spanish, at least not as an everyday language, prefering english or the native tagalog, eventhoug their culture is extremely hispanic.

Thanks for the reply. And yes, IberoAmericanos is the term we use in Spain, to distiguish between former Iberian Colonies and others.

[Hollis]

Generalizing comes from the way people think. People are pigeon holed, into the group that seems to best fits them. As a person gets to know someone better, they are moved in to another pigeon hole, (smaller group) untill they just become, Bob, of Jose'.

In the US some "Chicanos" refer to English speakers as Anglos.. Whether they have English heritage or not does not matter. Latinos is a phrase used in the USA, mostly Eastern where the "latino" are a mix with a Spanish speaking heritage, and not from Mexico.

[tuercas]

tuercas, my brother is married to a Filipina and she don't understand a drop of Spanish. Especially when me and my bro visit my mother and my mom is watching TeleMundo, his wife is like, "what are they saying". p-)

spanish speaker in the filipines are very rare now adays. most of them actually speak more english than tagalog, at least the ones i have met around here. usually people in the clergy will know some spanish but that is it.

[CPL Trevoga]

I'm sorry, why is making "ape noises" is racist? Uh-uh-ah-ahh.... LOLZ
Somebody was smoking a big one, if they think that Spain should be "ashemed."

There is nothing to be ashemed of. It's actualy funny. In England they like to have football riots and kick ass of other fans.

[tuercas]

I'm sorry, why is making "ape noises" is racist? Uh-uh-ah-ahh.... LOLZ
Somebody was smoking a big one, if they think that Spain should be "ashemed."

There is nothing to be ashemed of. It's actualy funny. In England they like to have football riots and kick ass of other fans.

its not the noise that is racist , it is the context in which it is being used. if the crowd made the noises all the time it would not be an issue but the crowd started making the noises when the black players entered the playing field , not before.

[toki]

I'm sorry, why is making "ape noises" is racist? Uh-uh-ah-ahh.... LOLZ
Somebody was smoking a big one, if they think that Spain should be "ashemed."

There is nothing to be ashemed of. It's actualy funny. In England they like to have football riots and kick ass of other fans.

You don't know much about football. Ape sounds in stadiums are as racist as the n word or as inapropriate as waving a swastika. It's a "custom" that everybody in europe directly connects to racism. Just the fact that you never heard of it, doesn't make it funny. And the spanish league has a problem with it. You wont find the monkey chants in the top leagues of england or germany anymore. Maybe in the lower leagues but the spanish FA has to fight that problem by monitoring the fans and banning the notorious ones and by starting public campaigns against it.

As for the "english" hooligans. It was never(!) only an english specialty. And nowadays eastern and southern europeans are the 'leaders' when it comes to football violence.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Just the fact that you never heard of it, doesn't make it funny.

Actually, it is sad. Brainwashing, brainwashing, brainwashing ... Have they started sending people to gulags yet in the EU(SSR)?

[CPL Trevoga]

You don't know much about football. Ape sounds in stadiums are as racist as the n word or as inapropriate as waving a swastika. It's a "custom" that everybody in europe directly connects to racism. Just the fact that you never heard of it, doesn't make it funny. And the spanish league has a problem with it. You wont find the monkey chants in the top leagues of england or germany anymore. Maybe in the lower leagues but the spanish FA has to fight that problem by monitoring the fans and banning the notorious ones and by starting public campaigns against it.

As for the "english" hooligans. It was never(!) only an english specialty. And nowadays eastern and southern europeans are the 'leaders' when it comes to football violence.

Very interesting point, why would black player be offended by monkey sounds??? Do Europeans think black people are monkeys and don't want to hurt their feelings???

It may be bad manners, but not "racist." Fans just rattling players cages, so they would loose the nerve and loose.

[toki]

Very interesting point, why would black player be offended by monkey sounds??? Do Europeans think black people are monkeys and don't want to hurt their feelings???

It may be bad manners, but not "racist." Fans just rattling players cages, so they would loose the nerve and loose.

You didn't get it, right? You don't know what you are talking about. Of course it's racist. Why do you think Samuel Eto'o at one point refused to play in that game against Zaragossa(?).

Another question, why is ki** for a jew or sp** for a latino offensive? It's just words. But the words have a meaning in certain parts of the world just as gestures. It's like saying Hey i'm just pointing my middle finger in the air, why do you feel offended? :roll:

And football fans are quite direct. I remember ( i think it was england or the Netherlands) a few days or weeks after september 11 one guy from the crowd jumped on the field and made wings with his arms and ran around an american player of the opposing team who just prepared for a corner kick. I guess some americans would be more then a bit offended by that. But again it's just a little "cage rattleing".

And to give you a little insight in racist/neo facist ultra groups:
Some fans of Lazio Rome
http://www.orf.at/050413-85799/bildergalerie_lazio_fans_ap.jpg
http://img.stern.de/_content/53/89/538978/Hakenkreuz_250.jpg
It's not all just for fun and games. They're pretty serious about it.

[EsoognomEhT]

I'm sorry, why is making "ape noises" is racist? Uh-uh-ah-ahh.... LOLZ
Somebody was smoking a big one, if they think that Spain should be "ashemed."

There is nothing to be ashemed of. It's actualy funny. In England they like to have football riots and kick ass of other fans.

Do We ****.

FYI, anyone making "ape noises" would be thrown out, in this country people used to throw bannanas at the black players, I can understand why monkey noises is seen as racist - because it ****ing is.
- that stuff simply DOES NOT happen here now..ever, We've had the "lets kick racism out of football" campaign over here for years now.
The Spain England friendly where monkey noises are clearly heard every time Ashley Cole and Sean Wright-Phillips touch the ball was a ****ing disgrace.
Football is probably the one place in Britain that racism is forgotten (except for Emile Heskey)

[XShipRider]

It is humorous to watch the "racism" card being played in the EU by
other EU nations. I thought racism only existed in the US. One
would get that impression by reading the so-called free presses
of the world (and watching Oliver Stone or Spike Lee movies).;-)

We have a saying here in the US: "I went to a fight and a hockey game
broke out." I guess the same could be said of the national sport of
so many other nations soccer (football).

[CPL Trevoga]

Toki thanks for the reply. I do understand your position, I'm just aganist labeling everything "racist".

[MetalMarine]

Toki thanks for the reply. I do understand your position, I'm just aganist labeling everything "racist".

I find it so hard to believe you dont think doing something like that at only black players is not racist. That is so direct its not even funny. They might aswell hold up signs its so direct. You really thing someone has to call you a name for it to be labled racist? You go to a football or basketball game here in the states you would sit next to a guy doing crap like that?

[ronin2172]

Toki thanks for the reply. I do understand your position, I'm just aganist labeling everything "racist".
You really need to get a clue....numbnuts it is racist, it isn't as if they are doing it against all the players of the opposing team, they are doing it only against the black players, and considering black people have often been called monkeys in a derrogatory manner, then you can see why black people get upset.

And it happened again today to Eto'o, it will be interesting to see what the Spanish FA is going to do about it