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View Full Version : Gripen targets Nordic JSF states with a joint Nordic industrial programme



signatory
04-03-2006, 07:28 PM
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/04/04/Navigation/177/205801/Gripen+targets+Nordic+JSF+states.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/04/04/Navigation/177/205802/Air+force+chief+pushes+user+group+for+JAS39.html

Swedes lobby Norway and Denmark to join Saab JAS39 industrial programme as discontent with F-35 grows

Gripen International has proposed a common Nordic industrial programme for further development of the Swedish Saab JAS39 fighter as the centrepiece of its responses to tender requests from Denmark and Norway. Both countries are conducting formal competitions in the lead-up to decisions later this year on whether to commit to procurement of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter or acquire alternative aircraft.

Norway is a key battleground for Lockheed as it tries to keep all eight international participants in JSF system development and demonstration (SDD) on board for the production, sustainment and follow-on development (PSFD) phase. Norwegian industry discontent with their participation has fuelled political opposition to the JSF

The “Nordic solution” proposed by Gripen International would involve direct industrial participation by Denmark and Norway in ongoing spiral development of the JAS39, said senior vice-president for international sales Bob Kemp at last week’s FIDAE show in Chile. The Norwegian tender response “makes it very clear to them it is a Nordic approach”, he says.

Lockheed has responded to Denmark’s request for information (RFI) and is responding to Norway’s in two phases, says F-35 programme general manager Tom Burbage. “We have submitted the industrial participation and cost sections. The technical element will be delivered by the end of the month.”

Norway is due to make its next SDD payment on 1 June, but requested and received a waiver of the contractual requirement to provide 90 days notice of withdrawal from the JSF programme. Burbage says the move is tied to government-to-government negotiations over the PSFD phase and has “nothing to do with the RFI”.

The Gripen bid offers Norway’s industry a role in evolving the communications and data transfer systems and developing an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance role for the aircraft. Co-operation on derivatives of Kongsberg’s next-generation anti-ship missile for Gripen is also proposed. Opportunities for Denmark include work for Terma on evolution of the Gripen’s electronic warfare and sensor capabilities.

About half the F-35 industrial package on offer to Norway involves strategic sourcing, but requires competitive pricing. The rest the industry must compete for, Burbage says. JSF work available to Konsgberg includes second sourcing of composite structures, and the Norwegian company is competing to supply conventional edges, he says.

If Oslo withdraws from SDD it would lose its representation in the JSF programme office and forfeit its delivery positions, Burbage says. Norway would go to the back of the production queue and have to buy F-35s through the US foreign military sales system if it later decided it wanted the JSF.

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Air force chief pushes user group for JAS39
The Swedish air force is to push for creation of a Saab JAS39 Gripen user group to drive down training, support and weapons integration costs and co-ordinate future upgrades. The idea is gathering momentum after Hungary on 30 March became the second export customer to take delivery of the Swedish fighter, around a year after the Czech Republic. South Africa is due to receive the Gripen in 2008.

“I will make an effort to establish a user group,” said Swedish Air Force chief Maj Gen Jan Andersson at last week’s handover at Kecskémet airbase near Budapest. The remit of such a group “has to come out of discussions” with the Gripen export customers, he added. Andersson last week informally discussed the idea with his Hungarian counterpart Maj Gen János Sági.

Hungarian defence minister Ferenc Juhász said the country expects its 14 Gripen C/Ds to reach full multi-role capability by 2009 and be made available to NATO in 2010. Hungary has received five of the aircraft under its lease-purchase deal – including a pair of two-seaters – and will receive five more single-seaters this year and the remaining four in 2007.

Gripen International, meanwhile, says the common Nordic industrial programme offered to Denmark and Norway could potentially expand in the long term to include the Baltic states as they develop their air forces, as well as Finland when it replaces its Boeing F-18s around 2015-18.
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Last week Eurofighter offered Norway full partnership, it's starting to really look like a buyer's market...Hey can that really be accurate about the Finnish F-18's ? Didn't they just order upgrades to put them into the 2020+ service life. 2015-2018 sounds a bit early.

Resurrection
04-03-2006, 07:33 PM
If this means more money for upgrades then I'm all for it. Slap on a F414 and it's good to go.

anv2
04-04-2006, 06:31 AM
Hey can that really be accurate about the Finnish F-18's ? Didn't they just order upgrades to put them into the 2020+ service life. 2015-2018 sounds a bit early.

F-18s will be in service till 2025, but the air force has to start looking for replacement much before that. 2018 doesn't sound unrealistic in that context.

signatory
04-04-2006, 07:07 AM
F-18s will be in service till 2025, but the air force has to start looking for replacement much before that. 2018 doesn't sound unrealistic in that context.

Ah yes of course you're correct, don't know how I could forget that aspect since I always b*tch about such introduction times... :oops:

What weapons does finland have for the F-18's ? other than Amraam and sidewinders.

JoaMei
04-04-2006, 07:10 AM
Seems that the unwillingnes of the US to share Technology of the JSF even for maintenance and repair backfires...

signatory
04-04-2006, 08:20 AM
HEH.

Well if they pick a nordic solution... at least the Gripen factory is in a good place :)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7721/scanen17re.jpg

Bert
04-04-2006, 08:25 AM
If we could all cooperate to develop the JAS to current standards, this would be great. Afterall, Kongsberg of Norway designed the only foreign missile in the U.S arsenal, not to mention that their NASAMS system is defending the white house from aerial attack.. We could contribute to the project, I think.

kinghk
04-04-2006, 08:45 AM
HEH.

Well if they pick a nordic solution... at least the Gripen factory is in a good place :)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7721/scanen17re.jpg

Which dumbass made this map?

Bert
04-04-2006, 08:50 AM
Which dumbass made this map?
Are you reacting to the neo-naz.. sorry, neo-norwegian names on the map?

signatory
04-04-2006, 08:53 AM
I just picked any map from google.

kinghk
04-04-2006, 08:54 AM
Are you reacting to the neo-naz.. sorry, neo-norwegian names on the map?

Mainly, in addition to the incoherent and errornous county names.

signatory
04-04-2006, 08:59 AM
here's where it's from... http://johomaps.com/eu/scan/scan_en.html


Based in Vancouver, Canada with links to geographers around the world, JohoMaps! is here to serve all of you out there who love maps. At JohoMaps!, we believe that cartography is both a science and an art. We work hard to bring you the most updated and user-friendly maps for all your travelling, learning and planning needs.

anv2
04-04-2006, 09:41 AM
What weapons does finland have for the F-18's ? other than Amraam and sidewinders.

That's pretty much it. There's a preliminary plan to purchase some long range air to ground weapon system by 2012, though.

khukuri
04-04-2006, 10:41 AM
isnt the gripen to old...for 2025 finlands case?...

signatory
04-04-2006, 11:28 AM
isnt the gripen to old...for 2025 finlands case?...

what else would be on the market ? that's both affordable and useful.
And old is subjective... the new F-16's that Poland receive now is not exactly 2:nd hand jets from the 70/80s...around 2020-2025 the Gripen should be coming out in G/H variants and as far as the Swedish airforce plan, the Gripen is the solution until 2035-2040.

The C/D versions now have a verified 8000 (!) hour airframe, 1 hour flight every day for 22 years (40 years effective)... electronics easily upgraded and the proposal they talk about would enable Finnish industry to customize their jets like I don't think a foreign JSF operator ever can. Eurofigher looks more of a competitor and would be a good choice. But Finland might want a jet that not only can do hard landings (like F-18/Gripen) but also cheaper to operate...either way, Finland is pretty unique in operating F-18 with all the F-16 users out there.

There's some talk about a new joint european jet that might come out around 2035 but I have a feeling it will be impossible to cooperate on this and actually produce something, otoh there might only be one big defense contractor left at the rate of mergers we see... so we all have to take what they offer....blah blah p-)

anv2
04-04-2006, 11:41 AM
isnt the gripen to old...for 2025 finlands case?...

Not necessarily, as long as its systems are kept up-to-date. Besides, the alternatives aren't going to be particulary new either, since no new aircraft is being developed in western countries at the moment. The likely contenders will therefore be Typhoon, JSF, Super Hornet and Gripen (+ perhaps Rafale).

Supe
04-04-2006, 11:47 AM
By 2025 you might as well be going UCAV. Manned strike/air superiority platforms aren't forever and ever proposition.

signatory
04-04-2006, 12:10 PM
By 2025 you might as well be going UCAV. Manned strike/air superiority platforms aren't forever and ever proposition.

well.. maybe they will at least replace some manned jets but i doubt a total solution. Btw, one of the recent upgrades to Gripens enable the pilot to act as Commander to UAVs over datalink. For instance the Gripen aquire target data with his or other's sensors or then tell the UCAV to engage.

.. well I'm crap at explaining but I could see that in some scenarios in the future, in a 4-ship formation only one plane is manned, with 3 UCAV buddies

Greek soldier
04-04-2006, 02:24 PM
I hope the Nordic nations opt for the "Super Gripen" (CFTs, EJ230 TVC...)

Resurrection
04-04-2006, 02:29 PM
I hope the Nordic nations opt for the "Super Gripen" (CFTs, EJ230 TVC...)
F414 will probably be the most likely option if they decide on upgrading the engine seeing as how it and the RM12 have similar physical dimensions - meaning less modifying to do.

I don't know about thrust vectoring either... it will have a pretty negative impact on the airframes I'm guessing since Gripen wasn't built for it.

Greek soldier
04-04-2006, 02:31 PM
^^ Pour some money and let's see it in practice. SAAB was also thinking of a tail-less version of the Gripen.