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He219
03-09-2004, 07:45 PM
Far East Decommissioning Conference Cries for Cash (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/pacific/general/25895.html)

He declined to say where the ships were based or how much fuel they contained, but said the corrosion on their hulls poses "the greatest danger," but various international observers attending the conference have indicated the ships are located throughout the Primorye region, from near Vladivostok, to the Kamchatka Peninsula — where some reportedly lay beached.

http://vn.vladnews.ru/Arch/2002/ISS337/Pic/Zvezda_Subs_1.jpg
Nuclear submarines docked at Zvezda

The ecology and decommissioning chief also said security is lacking and storage facilities "dilapidated" at the Russian military bases around the country that store spent nuclear fuel from 170 submarines. Four of those bases are located in the Russian Far East, he said, though refused to be more specific about the number of vessels located in the Far East. .

Of the 190 Russian submarines that have been taken out of service Russia-wide since the end of the 1980s, only 71 have been secured to some extent, meaning their nuclear fuel had been removed and some of them were scrapped, Akhunov said. Other subs remain docked off Russia's Pacific coast and in the Arctic Ocean, awaiting full decommissioning.

In the Pacific Fleet alone, 42 out-of service submarines that still have their spent nuclear fuel on board still remain precariously afloat.

It was ecologists and ecology groups like Alexei Yablokov and Bellona who first raised the alarm in 1995 about these submarines, bobbing at dockside, still loaded with their nuclear fuel — which is a specifically Russian method for storing submarine SNF. At that time, revelations of such information brought allegations of treason, particularly against Bellona’s Aleksandr Nikitin, who was finally acquitted of these charges in December 1999.

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/731910.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DEFE57CE58466A57EB02D2F87637210EE4
Children play near an area where old Russian submarines are retired in Vladivostok, Russia. The area is known as the "Submarine cemetery" and the Russian government says it does not have enough money to dismantle the old vessels. (Photo by Oleg Nikishin/Newsmakers)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/731911.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DEFE57CE58466A57EB442F5DBB9B6EE89D

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Fishermen and former Russian Navy sailors fish in the ice beside abandoned Russian military submarines in Vladivostok, Russia. The country's military has suffered major budget cuts since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union. (Photo by Scott Peterson/Liaison)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/737666.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9DC143FB7D66712EA894BF1D36375CA2

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Abandoned Russian military submarines lay stuck in the ice where they sunk January 28, 2001 in Vladivostok, Russia. The country's military has suffered major budget cuts since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union. (Photo by Scott Peterson/Liaison)

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/737662.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9DC143FB7D66712ED7D52AAB7262B372


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RUSSIA - JULY 2000: (FILE PHOTO) Unidentified Russian submarines are moored before being decommissioned at naval base July 2000. A Russian K-159 nuclear submarine sank during a storm in the Barents Sea August 30, 2003 as it was being towed to a scrapyard, killing nine crew members. (Photo by ***** Images)

K-159 doomed by expectations of Western funding (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/incidents/k-159/31528.html)

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/15/1_1407_1.jpg
The K-159 nuclear submarine at sea before it was decommissioned in 1989.

The K-159, a Russian first generation November class submarine, was doomed when it set sail, towed by a tugboat from the Northern Fleet's semi-abandoned Gremikha Base, on August 29th, according to the officer responsible for the failed operation.

Photos provided to Bellona by Russian website KSF.RU—which is run by journalists from closed naval cities on the Kola Peninsula—capture the K-159 and its crew the day before it sank. The condition of the submarine and the floatation pontoons attached to it seem to be far short of seaworthy, to say the least.

The K-159 was on its way to the Polyarny shipyard near the Arctic city of Murmansk for dismantlement when it sank during the early morning hours of August 30th, two days out to sea. The bulk of funding for dismantling the K-159—and 15 other non-strategic submarines, which were to be towed from Gremikha—was to come from Western donor countries.

An ongoing investigation of the tragedy, which claimed the lives of nine of the K-159's 10 crew members, was launched by the Military Prosecutor General's office, which has so far only brought charges against Captain Second Class Sergei Zhemchuzhnov, who was overseeing the towing operation.

Admiral Gennady Suchkov, the commander of the Northern Fleet, was suspended in September after the Russian Navy's Chief of Staff Vladimir Kuroyedov called the K-159 accident "a series of preventable mistakes."

This week Zhemchuzhnov launched a blunt and vociferous attack on the ways the Northern Fleet conducts the towing operations, listing the "preventable" mistakes that facilitated the K-159 accident. The whole operation, he told the Russian Kommersant daily, was blighted by antiquated equipment.

The pontoons used to keep the mothballed K-159 submarine afloat, made in the 1940s, were not airtight, and were not designed for towing operations, Zhemchuzhnov told the newspaper.

"As an officer, I didn't have an opportunity to express my personal opinion and had to fulfil the order," Zhemchuzhnov said. "The devices attaching the pontoons to the sub were welded to the rust-eaten hull, which in some places was as weak as foil."

The four pontoons themselves had to be repeatedly topped up with air, he told the paper, and one of them was "absolutely wrecked" and needed constant re-inflating.

The pontoons "consistently bled air pressure, and the K-159 crew was assigned to pressurise them every five hours to keep the sub afloat," Zhemchuzhnov said.

The submarine was ripped away from some of the pontoons in the middle of a reportedly violent storm and then tilted to its stern before sinking to the seabed.

In the summer of 2003, Russia became the beneficiary of an apparent outbreak of international non-proliferation and environmental philanthropy. Five countries made a combined donation of more than $200m toward Russia's efforts to decommission its retired non-strategic submarines and to clean up some of Northwest Russia's most radioactively contaminated areas. Much of the funding releases were facilitated by the signing in May of the Multilateral Nuclear Environmental Programme in the Russian Federation, or MNEPR, in Stockholm.

The Northern Fleet, anticipating the upcoming funding, decided to remove all the 16 rusty submarines from the semi-functional Gremikha Base—located on the eastern coast of the Kola Peninsula—and tow them to shipyards where they would be dismantled, Zhemchuzhnov said.

"The plan for towing the laid-up submarines from the Iokanga [another name for Gremikha] Base area to dismantlement sites was approved by the commander of the Northern Fleet in the spring of 2003," Zhemchuzhnov said. "In accordance with the plan, we were given the task of transferring 16 retired nuclear submarines during the summer navigation [period] from April to October. The K-159 was the 13th submarine we were transferring from Ostrovnoi [a town in the Gremikha Base area] to a dismantlement site."

In his interview, Zhemchuzhnov explained the high tempo of the towing operation by the fact that "there was big money involved [and] earmarked for dismantlement."

"I think this money was to be swallowed as quickly as possible, and reports about the cleanup of 'nuclear garbage' from the bases of the Northern Fleet were to be sent to Moscow," Zhemchuzhnov said.

The mass-scale operation did not go as expected. All 16 of the non-strategic submarines moored in Gremikha had already been rusting there for the past 10 to 15 years. Many of them had leaky ballast tanks—mechanisms that control the depth of a submarine's submersion.

Zhemchuzhnov said that in September 2002, when the first submarine was being transferred from Gremikha to a shipyard on the Kola Peninsula, two pontoons located on its stern broke loose, even though the sea was calm. The submarine eventually arrived safely at its destination. The incident, however, failed to send any wake-up calls to Northern Fleet commanders.

Retired rusting hulks of submarines like the K-159 are indeed an extremely urgent issue. But it is equally important to ensure that donor nations exercise greater control over the dismantling and nuclear and radiation safety projects that their funding grants facilitate.

"Western donors cannot simply give financial support without reviewing each stage of the process they are funding—for example the process of dismantling a nuclear submarine," Alexander Nikitin, former submarine captain first class and currently chairman of Bellona's St. Petersburg branch, said shortly after the K-159's accident.

Donor countries must insist on evaluating the projects they are funding from the point of view of the hazards the implementation of these projects could cause. Whether the observed lack of project oversight comes from the donors' naivete or their unwillingness to delve into Russia's infamous bureaucracy, such neglect can have dramatic effects. According to Nikitin, "if international donors pay for operations that lead to such incidents like the K-159 sinking, then it would be better if these international donors don't give any money at all."

Norway pioneered the efforts of the international community to fund the dismantlement of non-strategic submarines and this summer signed a contract with Russian shipyards to dismantle two Victor II class submarines. Both submarines had been located at Gremikha and towed to a dismantlement site for destruction.

Norway was, in effect, trapped when it paid for the dismantlement—and specifically the dangerous towing—of the vessels for the simple reason that it had not properly investigated the contract from the point of view of safe submarine destruction procedures. The money was simply transferred to the concerned shipyards that hire contractors of their choosing to carry out various aspects of the work. When asked to comment on this apparent oversight, officials from the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said somewhat evasively that it was "a Russian matter."


http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/50/4_1407_1.JPG

K-159 before departure, moored at Gremikha base. KSF.RU/Bellona

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/50/5_1407_1.JPG

The stern part of K-159's outer hull is rusted out.
KSF.RU/Bellona

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/50/6_1407_1.JPG

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/50/7_1407_1.JPG


Pontoons used to keep the mothballed K-159 submarine afloat were made in the 1940s. KSF.RU/Bellona

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/50/8_1407_1.JPG

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/50/9_1407_1.JPG
RIP :(

K-159's crew captured just before departure. Only one of them, Maxim Tsibulsky, survived the tragic trip.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/51/0_1407_1.JPG

The crew is attaching pantoons to K-159.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/51/1_1407_1.JPG

The crew is preparing K-159 for towing.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/51/2_1407_1.JPG

Tugboat SB-406 is about to pull K-159 off the pier.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/51/3_1407_1.JPG

K-159 starts off on its last trip.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/51/7_1407_1.JPG

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/51/5_1407_1.JPG

The devices attaching the pontoons to the sub were welded to the rust-eaten hull which in some places was as strong as foil.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/51/6_1407_1.JPG

K-159 is being tugged out into the open sea.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/31/00/3_1407_1.jpg
Bellona Investigation Reveals Radiation Levels Are Normal After K-159 Sinking—So Far (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/incidents/k-159/31140.html)

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/27/99/2_1407_1.jpg
Norway pays Russia to scrap non-strategic submarines (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/decommissioning/28400.html)

OSLO - Norway plans to contract the dismantlement of two Russian non-strategic submarines. Other countries will follow the example.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/30/40/9_1407_1.jpg
Two shots of a Victor III class attack submarine, the type of submarine Japan is now dismantling in a 'pilot project.'

World Funding Pours Into Russia for Nuclear Cleanup and Sub Dismantling (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/co-operation/30403.html)

It may have taken more than a year to kick-start the $20-billion pledges made at the Kananaskis, Canada, Group of Eight industrialized nations conference of June 2002, but, at last, some of the international funding spigots to help Russia deal with radioactive waste from its vast arsenal of decommissioned submarines and other radioactive hazards are opening.


http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/25/24/4_1407_1.jpg
K-104 tilted on its portside in PD-63 floating dock in the water area of Polyarny shipyard.

Nuclear submarine emergency in floating dock during decommissioning (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/decommissioning/25241.html)

A first generation Echo-II class nuclear submarine fell on its portside in a floating dock during decommissioning at a naval shipyard at the Kola Peninsula.

US sponsored defueling site approved for operation in Severodvinsk (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/decommissioning/29332.html)

Zvezdochka shipyard defuelled the first Typhoon class submarine. The new facility received final approval by Moscow.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/14/67/8_1407_1.jpg

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/25/61/4_1407_1.jpg
A TK-18 transport container is being loaded into railway car in Severodvinsk — the old defuelling scheme.
Brand new US sponsored defuelling site unable to handle Typhoons (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/decommissioning/25613.html)

Submarine spent nuclear fuel unloading site commissioned at Zvezdochka shipyard, Severodvinsk, in late August encountered problems trying to defuel a Typhoon class submarine.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/29/33/4_1407_1.jpg
Typhoon class submarine under decommissioning.

Interactive Map (http://www.bellona.no/imaker?id=17983&sub=1)

Source (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/decommissioning/index.html)

StealthMode
03-09-2004, 07:58 PM
This is an AWESOME, and VERY informative post.. beautiful job
HE219. Very impressive work. This is what this forum is truely about.

Is any comparable type of program going on for the United States cold war era subs, decommisioning ... any similar situations... or has our relativley stable economy allowed us to keep up with our fleets?

Flagg
03-09-2004, 08:06 PM
Awesome pics...great topic

He219
03-09-2004, 08:14 PM
Thanks guys; and a good question, StealthMode. I would have to guess the latter. I'll get back to you ...



Russia scraps Typhoons (http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/northern_fleet/vessels/24645.html)

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/24/64/9_1407_1.jpg

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/24/65/0_1407_1.jpg
Typhoons' home base Nerpichya in Zapadnaya Litsa fjord at the Kola Peninsula.

http://www.bellona.no/data/b/0/24/65/1_1407_1.jpg
One of the Typhoons was spotted in Gadzhievo base.

Marmot1
03-09-2004, 08:19 PM
That is scarry... They have money to build new ones but don't have too scrap old ones...

venture160
03-09-2004, 08:19 PM
man i would not want to go anywhere near that water, and people in boston complain that the charles river is dirty..... damn....

RomanS
03-09-2004, 08:22 PM
Great photos!

but damn this ****in hurts !

No offence to anyone!

****in corrupted Russian government!

Rest in Peace brothers.

Die those who is responsible, ****in scum.

sorry again, just tear droping material for me

FallenAngel
03-09-2004, 08:27 PM
There is an old Russian Foxtrot class sub (like in pics 2-6) tied up in Long Beach Harbord next to the Queen Mary hotel/museum. Quit interesting to visit.

WolverineBlue
03-09-2004, 09:39 PM
Those are some seriously depressing pictures -- they mothballed Typhoons? I thought those were the cream of the Russian ballistic missile sub fleet.

Russian Texan
03-09-2004, 09:55 PM
I am so tired of those bellona website authors, they are nothing but a bunch of tree hugging, hippie morons...
If it was left to people like them we all be vegetarians, living in caves and riding horses, oh wait, we wouldn't even be able to do that because it's an animal abuse...

#1 Russia has decommisioned 190 subs and has no money to properly scrap them, so what?

#2 What is the big deal if submarines are left to rust and sink in the middle of nowhere?

#3 If it bothers Green Piss so much, why don't they finance proper disposal of those subs? I mean: Show me the money!!!

And again - what is a big deal? When I was little, I loved to play at the abandoned construction sites, I can only imagine how cool it would be to play inside and around real submarine...
Sure deny kids the happy childhood, tow those subs away...

Russian Texan
03-09-2004, 09:59 PM
Those are some seriously depressing pictures -- they mothballed Typhoons? I thought those were the cream of the Russian ballistic missile sub fleet.

Only two of them, 4 are still in service and are taking turns of being overhauled, repaired, upgraded.

Backis
03-09-2004, 10:07 PM
#1 Russia has decommisioned 190 subs and has no money to properly scrap them, so what?

I'd be pretty embarrassed about that... you can't clean up after yourselves.

At minimum its nothing to be proud of...



#2 What is the big deal if submarines are left to rust and sink in the middle of nowhere?


It's a big friggin deal when those subs still have nuclear reactors onboard...

Then again, perhaps you look forward to having kids that glow in the dark? :roll:

My view is that we shouldn't give Russia a cent to decomission for while they build new clonkers... the West ought NOT to sponsor their navy... let them pay it themselves by having fewer boats.

RomanS
03-09-2004, 10:10 PM
It's a big friggin deal when those subs still have nuclear reactors onboard...




Are you NUTS????

You think those have nuclear reactors in them >\?


L O L


come get your free nuclear reactors, this way please!!!! Terrorists are welcome too, bring all your cash, well actually everything is free!!!!

Backis
03-09-2004, 10:19 PM
Are you NUTS????

You think those have nuclear reactors in them >\?


L O L


come get your free nuclear reactors, this way please!!!! Terrorists are welcome too, bring all your cash, well actually everything is free!!!!

Well, there are several "objects" south of Novaja Semlja... but most of those were "lost" back in the old Soviet days (it was cheaper to loose them than to put them in storage...).

Removing and storing the reactors is exactly that expensive part of decomissioning you can't afford, remember? Nobody over here would care (or pay) for your rustbuckets otherwise... Maybe you are confusing the reactors with the fuel? The Russian navy do have a few decrepid fuel storage ships and bunkers here and there, so most boats are probably defueled.

And considering the effort needed to recover the stuff (after locating it), we can pretty safely assume there is no terrorist organisation capable of getting their weapons grade material (wich this stuff isn't anyway), without being detected today...

Remember the help you needed with salvaging Kursk? She sunk in very shallow waters...

Russian Texan
03-09-2004, 11:08 PM
I'd be pretty embarrassed about that... you can't clean up after yourselves.
Yeah, but you are not us, so....
Although, if you'd like to, you can feel embarrassed for us, we don't mind :lol:

At minimum its nothing to be proud of...
Quite contrary ...:) Did Sweden ever have 190 submarines in its entire history? :)
Russia has decomissioned 190 and still has 100+ left ;)

It's a big friggin deal when those subs still have nuclear reactors onboard...
Few do, most don't. Even if they do - they are shut down and have nuclear fuel taken out of them, so what's the problem? There might be some residual radiation left - big freaking deal, who cares?

My view is that we shouldn't give Russia a cent to decomission for while they build new clonkers... the West ought NOT to sponsor their navy... let them pay it themselves by having fewer boats.
If you think it is Russia's problem, then why do you care?
You can talk whatever you want about pollution, destroying natural habitats of whatever :roll: but unless you are willing to "Show me the money!!!", your complaints will be ignored :lol:

Backis
03-09-2004, 11:21 PM
I'd be pretty embarrassed about that... you can't clean up after yourselves.
Yeah, but you are not us, so....
Although, if you'd like to, you can feel embarrassed for us, we don't mind :lol:

At minimum its nothing to be proud of...
Quite contrary ...:) Did Sweden ever have 190 submarines in its entire history? :)
Russia has decomissioned 190 and still has 100+ left ;)

It's a big friggin deal when those subs still have nuclear reactors onboard...
Few do, most don't. Even if they do - they are shut down and have nuclear fuel taken out of them, so what's the problem? There might be some residual radiation left - big freaking deal, who cares?

My view is that we shouldn't give Russia a cent to decomission for while they build new clonkers... the West ought NOT to sponsor their navy... let them pay it themselves by having fewer boats.
If you think it is Russia's problem, then why do you care?
You can talk whatever you want about pollution, destroying natural habitats of whatever :roll: but unless you are willing to "Show me the money!!!", your complaints will be ignored :lol:

I was right, you DON'T care if your kids "glow in the dark" or not. Good for you since you may well experience that. And thanks for explaining to us that you don't mind living in a ****hole. :)

But then I don't understand why you moved abroad...

And you'd be plenty worried if you knew enough of reactors. That "residual contamination" isn't exactly harmless...

Russian Texan
03-09-2004, 11:47 PM
Did you ever ask yourself: why are the europeans and japanese are the only people who care about this issue? I know the answer, do you?

What makes me sick and mad is that europeans come in with that righteous attitude and start pointing out to Russia's problems.
If you are so righteous and humane: why not to offer any solutions, why not to offer any real help?
They come in, say all the right things and pretend like they care about future of Russia's kids - BS!
The only thing that europeans care about is that another Chernobyl doesn't happen because the wind might blow their way just like it did back in 1986...

So please, spare me your compassion because I don't care if something blows up and contaminates half of Europe...

memphiz
03-09-2004, 11:50 PM
very sad, but great pics. thanks He

Backis
03-10-2004, 12:40 AM
Did you ever ask yourself: why are the europeans and japanese are the only people who care about this issue? I know the answer, do you?

What makes me sick and mad is that europeans come in with that righteous attitude and start pointing out to Russia's problems.
If you are so righteous and humane: why not to offer any solutions, why not to offer any real help?
They come in, say all the right things and pretend like they care about future of Russia's kids - BS!
The only thing that europeans care about is that another Chernobyl doesn't happen because the wind might blow their way just like it did back in 1986...

So please, spare me your compassion because I don't care if something blows up and contaminates half of Europe...

I don't see that many US rusting submarines all over the place either. ;)

And since you obviously don't care about your kids, someone have to... :P

Skaman
03-10-2004, 12:43 AM
I am so tired of those bellona website authors, they are nothing but a bunch of tree hugging, hippie morons...
If it was left to people like them we all be vegetarians, living in caves and riding horses, oh wait, we wouldn't even be able to do that because it's an animal abuse...

#1 Russia has decommisioned 190 subs and has no money to properly scrap them, so what?

#2 What is the big deal if submarines are left to rust and sink in the middle of nowhere?

#3 If it bothers Green Piss so much, why don't they finance proper disposal of those subs? I mean: Show me the money!!!

And again - what is a big deal? When I was little, I loved to play at the abandoned construction sites, I can only imagine how cool it would be to play inside and around real submarine...
Sure deny kids the happy childhood, tow those subs away...





#1 Russia has decommissioned 190 subs and has no money to properly scrap them, so what?


Well, it looks poorly on your country for not allocating funds to address and ecological issue. All the while they would rather contribute money to the development of new weapons or a war in Chechnya.
#2 What is the big deal if submarines are left to rust and sink in the middle of nowhere?

This is especially harmful for the ecological sea life. Rusting hulls and leaking nuclear powered submarines pose a major health issue. The water is contaminated and the residual affect will after marine life for year to come. Additionally, rusting vessels should be disposed of properly; the ocean is not a global garbage dump.
#3 If it bothers Green Piss so much, why don't they finance proper disposal of those subs? I mean

Because the Russian government should address the problem as they are the one responsible.

16 OBr SpN
03-10-2004, 03:22 AM
Well, what can I say, except that our economy is still in a bad shape.
Even though federal government funds are being allocated, unfortunately, I will admit, it's hard to find a decent guy, who would care, among the governors . Many of them are only in the business of filling their pockets with money. That's how plain and simple it is!

I often visit Vladivostok on business, and see much of that myself.
The only question I ask is "What the hell happened to our country!?"

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

mustamato
03-10-2004, 04:30 AM
This scares me, I just hope that it´s diesel that leaks out and not anything
nuclear, I don´t trust the Russians to take care of their nuclear stuff properly
when they let equipment for billions of dollars to rust away like that. Hell they
could have sold them to India or something instead.

mustamato
03-10-2004, 04:35 AM
http://cache.*****images.com/comp/731919.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DEFE57CE58466A57EBE54FAB60F42A51F3
Hm what is this, a predecessor to the Whiskey-class?

Here is a old Whiskey-submarine in my hometown, it was bought by some
dude who now lives in it, it´s a museum. The Whiskey-class is interesting
for us Swedes since it was one of those that gut stuck on a cliff in Swedish
territorial waters outside one of our naval bases in 1981. The Swedish reaction
from the military was quite massive, but from the politicans very lame, only
a "protest" was handed over, and for several years afterwards the military
was paranoid and dropped depth charges over seals and other stuff that looked
suspicious.

http://www.compunews.com/s139/s20ab.jpg
Soviet submarine U-137 of Whiskey-class that got stuck outside a Swedish
naval base

http://www.compunews.com/s139/s19b.jpg
A Soviet task force was sent immediately to the location

http://www.compunews.com/s139/s20b.jpg
Swedish soldiers arrive to an nearby island

http://www.compunews.com/s139/s4b.jpg
Swedish torpedo boats (SPICA) ready

http://www.compunews.com/s139/s4ab.jpg
Sonar and depth charges ready

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/3.jpg
The museum in my hometown

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/1.jpg

Marmot1
03-10-2004, 06:03 AM
I'd be pretty embarrassed about that... you can't clean up after yourselves.
Yeah, but you are not us, so....
Although, if you'd like to, you can feel embarrassed for us, we don't mind :lol:
This only show how immature you are texan....

At minimum its nothing to be proud of...
Quite contrary ...:) Did Sweden ever have 190 submarines in its entire history? :)
Russia has decomissioned 190 and still has 100+ left ;)
The problem is not with submarines but with nuclear fuel and reactors that are in item... this may fall in inproper hands or cantamine water and this is a problem

It's a big friggin deal when those subs still have nuclear reactors onboard...
Few do, most don't. Even if they do - they are shut down and have nuclear fuel taken out of them, so what's the problem? There might be some residual radiation left - big freaking deal, who cares?
Yeah, it is freaking deal since residual radiation is still dangerous and those which have tractors are ticking time bombs and you newer know when they activate... after chernobyl quarter of ukraine is less or more contaminated and you have 190 subs... even if only quarter of them have reactor (in which I doubt-probably more) it is still 40+ future charnoyls waiting...

My view is that we shouldn't give Russia a cent to decomission for while they build new clonkers... the West ought NOT to sponsor their navy... let them pay it themselves by having fewer boats.
If you think it is Russia's problem, then why do you care?
You can talk whatever you want about pollution, destroying natural habitats of whatever :roll: but unless you are willing to "Show me the money!!!", your complaints will be ignored :lol:
Another example of your immaturity... that is you and your goverment who should care... not SWEDEN not NORWAY not USA. Put pride aside and start cleaning mess that you left in your country. Instead building new future ecological threats use this money to clean old ones and don't begg for money.

16 OBr SpN
03-10-2004, 06:14 AM
Marmot1,

The nuclear fuel on those subs has been long removed! There's NOTHING inside of them! The money problem comes into play only for scrapping/recycling the metal.
I DO think our government should spend the money on that, since there's so much of metal, which can be re-used.
But, I don't expect some people who are robbing their own country, to think in that way.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

George W. Bush
03-10-2004, 06:15 AM
Time to invade Russia!

Backis
03-10-2004, 06:26 AM
Time to invade Russia!

Well this time I will believe the claims of possession of WMD, so count me in! ;)

kinghk
03-10-2004, 06:26 AM
Marmot1,

The nuclear fuel on those subs has been long removed! There's NOTHING inside of them! The money problem comes into play only for scrapping/recycling the metal.
I DO think our government should spend the money on that, since there's so much of metal, which can be re-used.
But, I don't expect some people who are robbing their own country, to think in that way.


http://www.bellona.no/en/international/russia/navy/co-operation/31480.html

Germany has signed a €300m deal to help Russia safely store floating submarine reactor compartments located in the Kola Peninsula’s Sayda Bay, where approximately 50 irradiated hulls—some still loaded with their spent nuclear fuel—bob

Backis
03-10-2004, 06:31 AM
Marmot1,

The nuclear fuel on those subs has been long removed! There's NOTHING inside of them! The money problem comes into play only for scrapping/recycling the metal.
I DO think our government should spend the money on that, since there's so much of metal, which can be re-used.
But, I don't expect some people who are robbing their own country, to think in that way.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

"nothing" is a bit of a strong word. Reactors are still highly active even with removed fuel rods, and will poison their surroundings pretty good. Dumping them in the North Atlantic is a serious threat to, for example, fish in the area. Fish humans eat.

Do you know how the used fuel is cared for nowadays? Last time I kept "up to spec" on this was a few years ago, and then it was a truly sorry state of affairs. At best the fuel had been transferred to old rusty fuelers were stocked up to their brims with the stuff, just waiting for a fire to happen... much was still "stored" in mothballed ships though...

And no, I'm not asking for locations. ;)

We ain't dead yet, but the situation is worrying.

RomanS
03-10-2004, 11:59 AM
"I was right, you DON'T care if your kids "glow in the dark" or not. "



They already do, mine too. We like it that way. We can see better at night. And my daughter gets this green glow on her hands, kind of cool when we go to the rave parties

Trigger
03-10-2004, 12:02 PM
mustamato:
this:
http://cache.*****images.com/comp/731919.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DEFE57CE58466A57EBE54FAB60F42A51F3

kind of looks like this Foxtrot class:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Images/Foxtrot2.jpg

@He219:
Absolutely fantastic post! Thanks woot woot

RomanS
03-10-2004, 12:06 PM
Time to invade Russia!

Good luck lool

Let me ask you a question.

Do you have enough balls to go and do this?
Because I can swear on my own life that if someone invades Russia, I'll be on the first plane back there protecting her.

Would you go ? or you just TALK.

Nikolas
03-10-2004, 12:21 PM
Less read Belona.
She is obliged to frighten you. To her for it money pay

Backis
03-10-2004, 12:21 PM
Time to invade Russia!

Good luck lool

Let me ask you a question.

Do you have enough balls to go and do this?
Because I can swear on my own life that if someone invades Russia, I'll be on the first plane back there protecting her.

Would you go ? or you just TALK.

You do now that you're just childishly waving your virtual (rather smallish) schlong here... apparently that joke wen't WAAAY over your head. :lol:

RomanS
03-10-2004, 12:24 PM
Time to invade Russia!

Good luck lool

Let me ask you a question.

Do you have enough balls to go and do this?
Because I can swear on my own life that if someone invades Russia, I'll be on the first plane back there protecting her.

Would you go ? or you just TALK.

You do now that you're just childishly waving your virtual (rather smallish) schlong here... apparently that joke wen't WAAAY over your head. :lol:

Interesting sence of HUMOR

Ezra Coli
03-10-2004, 12:44 PM
Excellent post. It is sad to see old weary hulks like that, at least they could have been given as museums or sunk in the deep.