More friendly fire in Afghanistan?

[Roy Batty]

Military probes whether friendly fire killed soldiers in Taliban battle

Last Updated Tue, 04 Apr 2006 05:10:38 EDT
CBC News

Canadian and American military investigators are checking out the possibility two soldiers killed in a three-hour gun battle in Afghanistan last week may have died as a result of friendly fire.

Pte. Robert Costall, 22, a machine gunner born in Thunder Bay, Ont., and John Stone, 52, an American medic with the National Guard, died last Wednesday in a battle in the Sangin district of Helmand province.

Three other Canadians were wounded in the brazen Taliban attack that included mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. Eight Afghan soldiers were also killed. Many observers saw the fight as a testament to the significant strength and resources of the Taliban army.

Military officials did not explain what prompted the friendly fire suspicions but acknowledged military operations in the Afghanistan are "complex."

"The initial findings justify the requirement for further investigation to determine the facts and circumstances surrounding the firefight, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from `friendly fire'," said a statement released Tuesday by National Defence at Kandahar airfield, the coalition's main base in southern Afghanistan.

"Terrain, weather and threat levels combine to create an extremely challenging operating environment. The fact the incident occurred at night, with attacks from multiple directions, just adds to the complexity."

The U.S. and Canadian military will carry out separate investigations, and it could be months before anything is known, says the statement.

In April 2002, four Canadian soldiers were killed by friendly fire when an American fighter jet mistakenly bombed their position in a nighttime training exercise near Kandahar.

www.cbc.ca


Man I hope this is just a wild goose chase.

[NewsMan]

UPDATE: Attack on base in Helmand Province

KABUL , Afghanistan -- At about 1:30 a.m. March 29, enemy forces attacked a Coalition base in the Sangin District of Helmand Province with direct and indirect fire.
The base, known as Forward Operating Base Robinson, is strategically located to support Afghan National Army efforts to extend the reach of the Afghan government and to allow Afghan and U.S. forces to defeat enemy activity by denying insurgents sanctuary, freedom of movement and the ability to reconstitute.
The base was defended by ANA, U.S. and Canadian forces.
Defending against the attack, coalition forces employed small-arms fire and close-air support. One Canadian and one U.S. Soldier were killed. Three Canadians, one U.S. service member and one Afghan National Army soldier were wounded.
After reviewing initial reports of enemy contact the Combined Forces Command – Afghanistan commander determined that an investigation was warranted. The commander of the Coalition’s Combined Joint Task Force – 76 formed a U.S. , Canadian and Afghan investigation team made up of personnel with operational and technical expertise. The result will be three separate national investigative reports.
The investigation will determine all the facts and circumstances surrounding the incident, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from friendly fire.
At least 12 insurgents were killed in the immediate vicinity of the operating base. Another 20 were killed after Coalition forces pursued them. In the course of their pursuit, Coalition forces destroyed two Taliban headquarters buildings and overran a Taliban compound. The Coalition forces discovered and destroyed large caches of munitions, including weapons and materials for making improvised explosive devices.

[JasonH]

Did friendly fire kill soldier?
Military investigating possibility Canadian and American soldiers were shot by own troops during Afghan battle
Apr. 4, 2006. 05:12 AM
ROSIE DIMANNO
STAFF REPORTER

KANDAHAR AIRFIELD–Friendly fire may have been responsible in the casualties that occurred during a fierce middle-of-the-night firefight between coalition troops and the Taliban last week, it was announced this morning.

A Canadian and an American soldier were both killed in Helmand Province, as late Tuesday turned into early Wednesday, after an isolated forward operating unit came under a brash assault by Taliban elements converging from three directions.

Killed in the fighting was Pte. Robert Costall, of Thunder Bay, a 22-year-old husband and father. Also slain, possibly when he went to Costall’s assistance, was an American medic, Sgt. First Class John Stone, 52, of the Virginia National Guard.

Initial findings of a preliminary investigation into what happened at FOB Robinson require further examination of whether the casualties may have resulted from “friendly fire’’, according to a statement released Tuesday morning by Brigadier-General David Fraser, the Canadian who is top commander the multi-national brigade deployed as Task Force Afghanistan.

“The initial finds justify the requirement for further investigation to determine the facts and circumstances surrounding the firefight, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from ‘friendly fire’,’’ the statement said.

An initial investigation had been launched immediately after the event – in which Costall was believed to be the first Canadian soldier to die in a war-theatre firefight in more than 30 years. That investigation into what had been a “significant Taliban night attack’’ was conducted jointly by the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service and the U.S. military.

As a result of the initial probe, a full CFNIS investigation has now been initiated, said Fraser. But the U.S. military is investigating as well and there was no clarification as to which of the casualties – if not both – may have resulted from friendly fire, which is the term for casualties caused by one’s allies.

Costall, a member of the 38-man Quick Response Team that had been detached from 7 Platoon of Charlie Company and attached to the multinational brigade was choppered up to the FOB, in Sangin District, with that unit after the small base came under intense attack last Tuesday. At the time, the FOB was being manned primarily by about a hundred soldiers with the Afghan National Forces, a dozen or so American military instructors, and a cadre of U.S. special forces.

“Coalition military operations in Afghanistan are complex,’’ Fraser’s statement emphasized. “Terrain, weather and threat levels combine to create an extremely challenging operating environment. The fact that this incident occurred at night, with attacks from multiple directions, just adds to the complexity.

“In this particular action, one U.S. soldier, and one Canadian soldier died in the firefight. Five soldiers were wounded – one American, one Afghan and three Canadians.’’

Canadian, U.S. and Afghan authorities will collaborate in the conduct of the investigation, the statement added. But no other details were released and will not be while the investigation is being conducted.

“It is inappropriate for us to speculate on the events of 28 March as they will be examined as part of the investigations,’’ the release concluded. “Further information will be made available as appropriate once the investigations are complete.’’

Arising from that firefight, and the aggressive attacks that have been directed at the FOB by Taliban elements over the past month – fighting on 25 of the last 40 days – a full-force Canadian mission was launched by Charlie Company on Sunday, with a kilometre-long column of military vehicles heading towards the base on what turned out to be an arduous 23-hour trek.

Code-named Mission Dagger, the deployment to an area that is technically under British military oversight – although the British have yet to arrive in force – was intended to show force, repel any further attacks by the Taliban, secure the FOB and possibly take the battle to the enemy.

FOB Robinson – named for another American serviceman, Staff Sergeant Christopher Robinson, who was killed by enemy fire at the base on March 25 – is a primitive compound, surrounded by sand berms and concertina wire.

Costall, mortally wounded, fell between the berm and the wire, according to those who were present during that violent engagement.

A nearby gate onto the base has now been renamed in honour of Costall, whose remains were flown back to Canada last Thursday following a moving ramp ceremony here.

[Mastermind]

I'm very sorry for their families and their comrads in arms....regardless of how a soldier falls.

[cagey veteran]

I am afraid it may be so. My senses were tingling when they had some soldiers comment/ interviews on the news. One fella said words to the effect"maybe we can learn from this and move on"
ding ding ding ding ding.
Also there has been no detailed rumour or comment on the action that left a considerable amount of enemy dead. sounds like everyone may have been cautioned.....
blue on blue is tragic but it DOES NOT mean they weren't KIA!! RIP
rica dam doo

[guest]

There is no reason to start specualtion.

If you *think* you know something, or even if you *do* know something, this is not the place to talk about it.

Those in a position to comment know enough not to..

[Kingswat]

Military probes whether friendly fire killed soldiers in Taliban battle

Last Updated Tue, 04 Apr 2006 05:10:38 EDT CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/credit.html)



Canadian and American military investigators are checking out the possibility two soldiers killed in an intense night-time gun battle in Afghanistan last week may have died as a result of friendly fire.
Pte. Robert Costall, 22, a machine gunner born in Thunder Bay, Ont., and John Stone, 52, an American medic with the National Guard, died last Wednesday in a battle in the Sangin district of Helmand province.




Three other Canadians were wounded in a Taliban attack that included mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. Eight Afghan soldiers were also killed. Many observers saw the fight as a testament to the significant strength and resources of the Taliban army.



"I'm not going to speculate on the friendly fire aspects," Brig.-Gen. David Fraser said Tuesday. "We have a series of collaborative investigations going on between our three nations. Let's let the investigators of the three nations determine what the facts are surrounding the possibility of friendly fire."
Military officials routinely conduct investigations into gun battles. They decided to launch a formal inquiry into the Sangin battle based on preliminary findings.
"The initial findings justify the requirement for further investigation to determine the facts and circumstances surrounding the firefight, including whether any of the casualties may have resulted from `friendly fire'," said a statement released Tuesday by National Defence headquarters at Kandahar airfield, the coalition's main base in southern Afghanistan.
Military officials have already ruled out the possibility the deaths resulted from bombs dropped by B-52 bombers, or from air support provided by U.S. attack helicopters and British jets, said Fraser.
"What the investigators of the three inquiry commissions will be looking at is the wounds of the men who were killed and injured. You can tell a lot by the bullets and shrapnel that may have hit them," said CBC correspondent Nick Spicer.




Fighting in Afghanistan comes with its own complications.
"Terrain, weather and threat levels combine to create an extremely challenging operating environment. The fact the incident occurred at night, with attacks from multiple directions, just adds to the complexity," says the statement.
Three countries will carry out separate investigations – the U.S., Canada and Afghanistan – and it could be months before anything is known, said the statement.
In April 2002, four Canadian soldiers were killed by friendly fire when an American fighter jet mistakenly bombed their position in a nighttime training exercise near Kandahar.




http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/04/04/friendly-fire060404.html

[cagey veteran]

you have mail!

[guest]

you have mail!

That email is bogus.

Just PM

[Gunz76]

Why can't we just recognize the sacrifices these soldiers and their families made and honour what they accomplished in their sacrifices. I am tired of beurocrats and the news agencies always questioning what happens in war or trying to make sense of it, it is what it is and we go to foriegn lands fight for the freedom of others and then our actions, sacrifices are questioned time and time again. Let the wounds heel, the dust settle and the young men and women be honoured before we start questioning what they did and how they did it. The fact is that our brothers died protecting their "family" let's remember that before we move on to the facts.

[Royal]

Mainly in the hope that they find out why things went wrong, why good men died (possibly needlesly) and try to stop it happening again. Or would you rather it that way?

[Gunz76]

I think perhaps you missed my point. Of course I would want lessons to learned but my point is why can't the media allow the families of these troops to grieve before they start smearing the fact that their loved ones may have been killed by the friends, the people that are the closest to. Perosnally I think my wife would prefer it be the enemy than my buddies who swore to each other to protect one another.

[guest]

I think perhaps you missed my point. Of course I would want lessons to learned but my point is why can't the media allow the families of these troops to grieve before they start smearing the fact that their loved ones may have been killed by the friends, the people that are the closest to. Perosnally I think my wife would prefer it be the enemy than my buddies who swore to each other to protect one another.


In this case, the information that the possibility of a FF incident came directly from the General himself.

I understand your frustration, but in this case.. I think it's misplaced.

As far as "smearing" goes, comments like the previous post certainly do no good:


" I am afraid it may be so. My senses were tingling when they had some soldiers comment/ interviews on the news. One fella said words to the effect"maybe we can learn from this and move on"

This is a perfect example of what happens when troops don't police thier words when speaking to reporters.

Some "Expert" makes a judgment call, based on tingling senses. and something he saw on TV

I'm of the firm belief that no one under the rank of MWO should be left alone with a reporter.

[NewsMan]

Offensive in the area continues:

Afghan and Coalition forces detained 10 insurgents while conducting offensive operations in the Sangin District of Helmand Province yesterday.

In the course of the combined operations – aimed at eradicating enemy forces – insurgents engaged Afghan and Coalition forces with small-arms fire. The Afghan and Coalition forces returned fire, wounding three militants and are continuing to search the area for enemy forces.

[cagey veteran]

guest check your PM
perhaps, you failed to notice that I didn't make a comment until it was brought up here for discussion.This is a discussion board isn't it? Hasn't this been confirmed as an investigation by the commander on the ground?
Maybe my senses tingle because I have spent a lifetime analyzing human behaviour. So enough of the personal attacks on a message board, you are angry for a reason, talk to your chums about it, venting on a discussion board is useless.
I'm out....any more for me you'll have to flick to pm
I salute the men who have fallen and I support those that will continue to close on the objective.