Scotland Forever

[DeltaWhisky58]

It is with great sadness and regret that I have to report the demise of six of the best Regiments the British Army has ever known ... ... ...

Tuesday 28th March 2006 marks formation day of The Royal Regiment of Scotland (http://www.army.mod.uk/royalregimentofscotland/).

Army regiments merging into one


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41491000/jpg/_41491020_royalreg*****203x250.jpg

Ceremonies to mark the creation of a single Scottish army regiment are being held across the UK and elsewhere. The current six infantry regiments will become battalions of the new Royal Regiment of Scotland (RRS). The Royal Highland Fusiliers, the Black Watch, The Highlanders and The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders will form four battalions of the new regiment.

370 years of the finest military tradition in the world has been wiped out by the stroke of a politician's pen. When the queen's Own Highlanders were merged with The Gordon Highlanders in 1994, I saw men weep openly at the merging parade on a bridge over the river Spey - the historic dividing line between recruiting territories, no doubt this event will result in the same.

BBC News Online (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4850276.stm)




Goodbye to the Black Watch
By Philip Howard
“SAY something, laddie, even if it’s only ‘Goodbye’!” screamed the purple sergeant-major in a Black Watch kilt. The officer cadet was dithering to time his command of “Abooowt TURN” as the left feet of the squad hit the tarmac. His squad was marching rapidly towards noyade in the Tweed. On Tuesday we say goodbye to 281 years of history, as the Black Watch is subsumed with the other Highland and Lowland regiments into the new Royal Regiment of Scotland, which will comprise just five Scottish infantry battalions. Major- General Euan Loudon, GOC 2 Division, whose area of command will then stretch down into the middle of England, will present his new battalions with their cap badges and glengarries. And the Black Watch, Royal Highland Regiment (“the Ladies from Hell”) will hold its final clan gathering in Perth before it loses its red hackle and becomes plain 3 Scots.
It is impossible to exaggerate the pain and rage that this is causing to the old and bold of the Watch. A regiment is an extended family. Its warrior spirit and discipline have sustained the family in victory and defeat, in peace and war, in barracks or in camp, in billets or in bivouac, from Ticonderoga to Basra, since it was formed to police the Highlands after the Jacobite rebellion of 1715. Black for the tartan, Am Freiceadan Dubh, to distinguish them from the redcoats.
And not just the Black Watch, which raised a million and a half signatures in a month in its recruiting area for a petition to preserve its identity. The King’s Own Scottish Borderers started a court case to argue that, since they were formed in 1689 under a Scottish Parliament, they could not be ordered to amalgamate with the Royal Scots by the United Parliament at Westminster.
The Royal Scots, the First of Foot, are known as Pontius Pilate’s bodyguard. Legend has it that Pilate was the son of a Roman legionary from the Wall and a Highland lass from Fortingall in Tayside. When in French service as Le Régiment de Douglas, a dispute arose with the Régiment de Picardie as to which was the senior. An officer of the Picardies claimed that his regiment was on duty on the night of the Crucifixion. The Colonel of the Scots replied: “Aye, and if it had been our turn for duty, we’d no have slept at our post.”
This is not the first occasion that the Black Watch have felt betrayed. Their original companies were recruited on the understanding that they would serve only in the Highlands. But in 1743 they were marched to London, and learnt that they were to be posted to the deathtrap of Jamaica. More than a hundred mutinied and set off to march back to their Highlands. They got as far as Oundle before the Dragoons caught up with them. The four “ringleaders” were hanged. The rest were drafted to regiments in the hotter postings in the War of the Austrian Succession. Not many took the high road to the Highlands again.
The Watch don’t do mutiny any more. Of course they will march wherever they are ordered. They always have. The regimental bagpipe bayonet tune is The Black Bear, which has pauses for the Jocks to scream their battlecry as they charge towards the flames at Quatre Bras or El Alamein.
Major Colin Innes, whose family have soldiered in the Watch for generations, says: “We will support the Black Watch battalion of the new large regiment. But ‘we hae mony doots’ about its future. We are duty-bound to wish it well. But soldiering will be very different from that experienced by the family, who have been trying to retain that which they loved about their regimental soldiering.”
The stramash will not do Gordon Brown much good in his constituency, which lies in Black Watch recruiting territory. The Army would never have dared to sack the Black Watch while the Queen Elizabeth Queen Mother, whose brothers and uncles fought and died with the Watch, was alive. Field Marshal Lord Wavell, who, like the Queen Mother, was Colonel of the Regiment, said: “It will be a sad day and an evil day for the British Infantry if the reformers ever succeed in weakening or destroying the regimental tradition.” So goodbye, Black Watch. And thank you, in blood and tears.
The Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,61-2104976,00.html)
Black Tuesday - A Sad Day For Scotland

1 SCOTS - The Royal Scots Borderers - 1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland
2 SCOTS - The Royal Highland Fusiliers - 2nd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland
3 SCOTS - The Black Watch - 3rd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland
4 SCOTS - The Highlanders - 4th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland
5 SCOTS - The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - 5th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland
6 SCOTS - 52nd Lowland - 6th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland (TA)
7 SCOTS - 51st Highland, 7th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland (TA)

[Jimmy C]

Aye tis a shame. Gone but never to be forgotten.

Albainn Gu Brath (Scotland Forever)

[gaijinsamurai]

That totally sucks!!!!!!!!! Apparently, not enough people in Britain appreciate their military heritage. These regiments' respective histories and traditions were an invaluable asset to the British Army, and it is a shame. I served with soldiers from some of these regiments on a few occasions, and I had total respect for them.
I heard another of Britian's oldest and finest regiments, the Royal Welch Fusiliers (23rd Foot) will be disbanded/amalgamated as well.

And to think Tony Blair is a native Scot!

Aye, 'Tis a sad day, Lads.

[DeltaWhisky58]

To contradict gaijinsamurai, the people of Britain are well aware of their military heritage, it is our government who has decreed that this does not matter.

As for Tony Blair being a native Scot - do you think we would wish the world to know that - we are not proud of the fact. I can't think of another politician who has done more damage to our country, may he rot in hell.

In entire British Infantry has been decimated by these cuts - I wonder how long it is before we will be discussing the formation of The Royal Corps of Infantry?

[CyberSpec]

Seems like a strange decission in a time when they're talking about
ever increasing overseas deployments of the Britiish Army

[digrar]

My first Battalion the Eighth Ninth Battalion the Royal Australian Regiment marched to Black Bear and the memory of it still gives me chills.
We too were cut from the order of battle by a Government in the process of decreasing the Army. I feel your pain.

[jango]

wellington who be sickened by this day!!!

[Blumenteufel]

Dude, I can imagine how you feel, just like me when they put our 1.Gebirgsdivision out of service...still makes me weep having had to serve under
the 10th Panzer as Mountain Infantryman. Bargh.

Europe finally has to come to terms with it´s security policy, right now it´s again lions led by donkeys.

[Irish]

Will they have the same CapBadge/staple Belt??

[DeltaWhisky58]

AFAIK the only concession to individual Regimental identities will be the wearing of the hackle on the Tam in working/combat dress.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

It's sad but maybe it's time to take the long view about capbadges and regimental histories and loyalties.

In the early 19th century EXACTLY the same things were being said by veterans in the British Army when their beloved numbered regiments were renamed into the county regiments etc that we're now bemoaning the loss of.

In WW2 and I guess also in WW1 when we were really up against it hundreds of thousands of British soldiers went through training under one capbadge and subsequently got drafted into other regiments as BCRs etc to fight with no notable loss of efficiency.

[gaijinsamurai]

Well, thank you DeltaWhisky58 for setting me staight! I'd prefer to be wrong about this! Still, it's too bad that a democratically-elected government can get away with such bullshiat!! I drank a healthy dose of whisky (alas it was Japanese, as it was the only kind available) in honor of the Gordons, Camerons, Seaforths, Black Watch, Argyll and Sutherlands, KOSB, Royal Scots, Royal Highland Fusiliers, and the old Cameronians tonight!
The memories of Tel El Kiber, Waterloo, Majuba, Ypres, and El Alamein will live forever!!! A special salute to the men of the Black Watch, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, and King's Own Scottish Borderers, with whom I served. (please excuse the drunken ramblings!)

[welshmann]

happend to us welsh on the 1st of march.....a very sad day for the british army and for scotland

[theclash]

DW, surely there's going to be an acceptance within the new regiment that there's got to be some kind of continuation of, if not the actual accroutrements, but at least the individual regiments traditions?

The biggest thing for me is, that despite the serving highlanders knowing this was coming about and going through, they've got their heads down and soldiered. Tony Blair can't buy that kind of determination, but he's too p**sant to realise it.

As far as Im concerned the watch in the north hasn't ended, maybe when hell freezes over and there's no more need for an army we can put the Black Watch and the other Highland regiments to bed. But not before, the serving men and women will see the traditions continue.

PS

I believe Tory policy is to reinstate the Highland regiments if they win an election.

[DeltaWhisky58]

DW, surely there's going to be an acceptance within the new regiment that there's got to be some kind of continuation of, if not the actual accroutrements, but at least the individual regiments traditions?

The biggest thing for me is, that despite the serving highlanders knowing this was coming about and going through, they've got their heads down and soldiered. Tony Blair can't buy that kind of determination, but he's too p**sant to realise it.

As far as Im concerned the watch in the north hasn't ended, maybe when hell freezes over and there's no more need for an army we can put the Black Watch and the other Highland regiments to bed. But not before, the serving men and women will see the traditions continue.

PS

I believe Tory policy is to reinstate the Highland regiments if they win an election.

How individual Jocks regard this is yet to be seen, I'll see what my cousin has to say when he get's back from Iraq in June. As for the Tories - well they have promised to reinstate the Regiments, but there again past experience tells me that I'll believe this when I see it, however one thing which is guaranteed - I've never voted Labour, and I don't intend to start now - Conservative gets my vote, has done since the 1979 General Election.

AFAIK the decisions are made over the Regimental dress regs, but it is interesting to note that these have not yet been published on the royal Regiment of Scotland (http://www.army.mod.uk/royalregimentofscotland/dress.htm) website as yet.

Remember one thing - Jock is amongst the best fighting men the world has ever seen, some of these Regiments have continuous service going back 370 years and more - as far as these lads are concerned this will continue.

I hope Argyll sees this, but being away at present he won't be online as often, I'd be interested in his views, but I doubt they'll fe so far away from mine.

Remember The Scottish Regiments - Their memory and traditions march on ... ...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/HighlandSniper58/regiments.gif

Alba gu brath
Cuimhnichibh na suinn nach maireann. Mairidh an cliu beo gu brath.

[welshmann]

There again after looking into these regiments i can see why people are upset,ill just do the black watch Battle Honours..only upto 1991
......................................................
THE BLACK WATCH (ROYAL HIGHLAND REGIMENT)
1st Battalion - late 42nd Regiment

The Sphinx (emblem superscribed 'Egypt' )(1801) ..... Guadaloupe, 1759 ..... Martinique, 1762
Havannah (1762) ..... North America, 1763-64 ..... Corunna (1809)
Busaco (1810) ..... Fuentes D'Onor (1811) ..... Salamanca (1812)
Pyrenees (1813) ..... Nivelle (1813) ..... Nive (1813)
Orthes (1814) ..... Toulouse (1814) ..... Peninsula (1804-14)
Waterloo (1815) ..... Alma (1854) ..... Sevastopol (1854-55)
Lucknow (1857-58) ..... Ashantee, 1873-4

2nd Battalion - late 73rd Regiment

Mangalore (1783) .....Mysore (1789-91) ..... Seringapatam (1799)
Waterloo (1815) ..... South Africa, 1846-7 ..... South Africa, 1851-2-3

Post 1881 Amalgamation of the 42nd and 73rd Regiments

Egypt, 1882-84 (1st Battalion) ..... Tel-El-Kebir (1st Battalion)(1882)
Nile, 1884-5 (1st Battalion) ..... Kirbekan (1st Battalion)(1885)
Paardeberg (2nd Battalion)(1900) ..... South Africa, 1899-1902 (2nd Battalion) Retreat from Mons, Marne 1914, 18, Aisne 1914, La Bassee 1914, Ypres 1914, 17, 18,
Langemarck 1914, Gheluvelt, Nonne Bosschen, Givenchy 1914, Neuve Chapelle,
Aubers, Festubert 1915, Loos, Somme 1916, 18, Albert 1916, Bazentin, Delville Wood,
Pozieres, Flers-Courcelette, Morval, Thiepval, Le Transloy, Ancre Heights, Ancre 1916,
Arras 1917, 18, Vimy 1917, Scarpe 1917, 18, Arleux, Pilckem, Menin Road,
Polygon Wood, Poelcapelle, Passchendaele, Cambrai 1917,18, St. Quentin,
Bapaume 1918, Rosieres, Lys, Estaires, Messines 1918, Hazebrouck, Kemmel, Bethune,
Scherpenberg, Soissonnais-Ourcq, Tardenois, Drocourt-Queant, Hindenburg Line,
Epehy, St. Quentin Canal, Beaurevoir, Courtrai, Selle, Sambre
France and Flanders 1914-18, Doiran 1917, Macedonia 1915-18, Egypt 1916, Gaza,,
Jerusalem, Tell Asur, Megiddo, Sharon, Damascus, Palestine 1917-18, Tigris 1916,
Kut al Amara 1917, Baghdad, Mesopotamia 1915-17
Defence of Arras, Ypres-Comines Canal, Dunkirk 1940, St. Valery-en-Caux, Saar,
Breville, Odon, Fontenay le Pesnil, Defence of Rauray, Caen, Falaise, Falaise Road,
La Vie Crossing, Le Havre, Lower Maas, Venlo Pocket, Ourthe, Rhineland, Reichswald,
Goch, Rhine, North-West Europe 1940, 44-45, Barkasan, British Somaliland 1940,
Tobruk 1941, Tobruk Sortie, El Alamein, Advance on Tripoli, Medenine,
Zemlet el Lebene, Mareth, Akarit, Wadi Akarit East, Djebel Roumana, Medjez Plain,
Si Mediene, Tunis, North Africa 1941-43, Landing in Sicily, Vizzini, Sferro, Gerbini,
Adrano, Sferro Hills, Sicily 1943, Cassino II, Liri Valley, Advance to Florence,
Monte Scalari, Casa Fortis, Rimini Line, Casa Fabbri Ridge, Savio Bridgehead,
Italy 1944-45, Athens, Greece 1944-45, Crete, Heraklion, absmiddle East 1941,
Chindits 1944, Burma 1944 The Hook 1952, Korea 1952-53.
http://www.btinternet.com/~james.mckay/journal.htm

[DeltaWhisky58]

Full details, history, lineage etc.

The Royal Scots (http://regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/001RScot.htm)

Kings Own Scottish Borderers (http://regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/025KOSB.htm)

Royal Highland Fusiliers (http://regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/021RHF.htm)

The Black Watch (http://regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/042Black.htm)

The Highlanders (http://regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/072H(SGC).htm)

The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (http://regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/091ASH.htm)

There have been many amalgamations and megers before, but none so drastic as this.

[chris450]

very interesting,thanks

[Trigger]

Sorry to hear this.
Keep your chin up DW58.

[Sierra_Tango69]

Very sad indeed. I have a lot of good mates in some of these regiments, who are rather upset of this merge. Ones who have followed the lines of their forfathers in the regiments.

[wiking]

A sad day in military history :-(

[Machine Wilkins]

The march of progress


This week sees the formation of The Royal Regiment of Scotland, the controversial ‘super-regiment’ made up of its six predecessors. With Britain’s forces stretched thin around the world, is it the right time to be reducing troop numbers and risking morale? By Diplomatic Editor Trevor Royle



SIZE matters. As the thin red line of Britain’s infantry regiments is stretched to its limits, reinforcements are arriving on Tuesday with the formation of The Royal Regiment of Scotland, which will be the largest infantry formation in the British Army.


In ceremonies across the world, stretching from Edinburgh to Basra and Baghdad, soldiers of the new regiment will mark its formation by exchanging their existing cap badges for the smart new cap badge of the cross of St Andrew mounted by a crowned lion rampant and the proud Scottish motto: “Nemo me impune lacessit” (no one provokes me with impunity).

Because the army is keen to emphasise the sense of continuity, ceremony will be kept to a minimum. As one senior officer put it: “The golden thread linking the past to the future must be kept intact, and we’ll be playing up all the positives because this is a step forward, not a retrograde move.”
For many soldiers it will be a poignant moment. On the same date that the oldest infantry regiment in the British Army came into being – The Royal Scots on March 28, 1633 – Scotland’s six existing infantry regiments will re-form as a new super-regiment with six regular and two Territorial Army battalions. Later in the summer, on August 1 – the anniversary of the Battle of Minden in 1759 when British infantry soldiers secured an astonishing victory over superior French forces – the new regiment will adjust to five regular battalions when The Royal Scots and The King’s Own Scottish Borderers amalgamate to form The Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland.

There is inevitably sadness that so much history appears to be disappearing, but following a well-oiled operation masterminded by Major General Euan Loudon, General Officer Commanding the 2nd Division and the senior soldier in Scotland, the new regiment has come into being with a smoothness and lack of drama which will confound its critics.

And, against all odds, recruiting is improving. While numbers are still on the low side, recruiting for the new regiment is running at 84% of target. In the year 2005-2006, 1080 Scots joined the army and 418 of that number are bound for the new regiment. This is better than anticipated and contradicts earlier figures which showed that the new regiment might be almost 600 soldiers short of its expected complement of 3000. According to the army in Scotland, recruiting is back on target and should reach a higher percentage later this year.

Recruiting has been a problem for several years, but it seems to be cyclical with good years being followed by lengthy fallow periods. A recent summary of enlistments seen by the Sunday Herald shows that five years ago 528 soldiers joined the six Scottish infantry regiments, but by 2005 that figure had shrunk to 301. Iraq and the Deepcut scandal have been cited as the cause of the fall in numbers, but army recruiters say that “it is hard to find hard evidence that supports this view”.

More tangible reasons include the declining population which cannot now sustain the required numbers. Increased access to higher education and higher rates of employment, especially in the central belt, have also affected recruitment, and make the annual pay of an infantry private – currently less than £12,000 – appear unattractive. One thing is clear, though: according to research carried out by army recruiters in Scotland, the formation of a new super-regiment has not been a factor in young people’s attitudes to the army.

New recruits still have the option of joining the battalion of their choice, which means that someone from Glasgow will still be able to opt for The Royal Highland Fusiliers, which is the new regiment’s 2nd battalion and has traditionally recruited from the west of Scotland. However, because each new battalion has a specific role, new recruits will also be encouraged to join other battalions if they want to experience a different kind of soldiering. The Highlanders, for example, operate in the armoured infantry role in Fallingbostel in Germany and currently form one of the British battle groups in Basra, while the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders are based in Canterbury, Kent, as part of 16 Air Assault Brigade and elements of the battalion will be deployed in Afghanistan in the summer.

“This is the kind of flexibility the modern soldier wants,” claims an officer who worked on one of the three working groups Loudon formed in 2004 to ensure there was a smooth transition. “It also helps career progression. The key words in the new regiment will be stability, choice and opportunity. Each new recruit will spend two years in his parent battalion, but after that we’ll be catering for individual aspirations.”

Under the new Infantry Individual Posting Policy, soldiers will be given greater versatility in planning their career path, and this is already bearing fruit by giving soldiers better opportunities to enhance their careers. Previously soldiers commissioned as officers from the ranks were given little incentive or opportunity to improve their position. Most became families’ officers in their own regiment – a relatively mundane job – but all that will change with the new regiment. With more choices on offer there will be more opportunities for promotion to more rewarding positions.
This has been widely welcomed, and senior commanders hope that the creation of the new regiment will encourage more soldiers to apply to become officers at a time when the army is under pressure to widen the social make-up of its officer corps.

As part of that effort, a great deal of thought has been put into the creation of a new uniform which Loudon insisted should be “simple, stylish and Scottish”. All soldiers, including officers, will wear the same type of cap badge and everyone will wear the same tartan kilt known as Government Tartan 1A, previously worn by the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. Nodding to past traditions, individual battalions will wear different coloured hackles on their bonnets, so the 3rd Black Watch battalion will keep its cherished red hackle and the new 1st Royal Scots Borderers battalion will adopt the black hackle of the Cameronian regiment which was disbanded in 1968.

“We soldiers of the 21st century are the inheritors of a generally proud and stirring record of military endeavour associated with famous names that are themselves stirring and inspiring,” claims Lieutenant General Sir Alistair Irwin, Colonel of The Black Watch and one of the main architects of the new regiment. “To one degree or another, the past provides a powerful motive for performing well in the present.”



There is, of course, much more to The Royal Regiment of Scotland than cap badges and traditions. While the figure of the kilted Scottish soldier is one of the nation’s best-known advertising symbols, soldiering in Scotland is not just about standing outside Edinburgh Castle. This weekend Scottish soldiers are serving in Iraq – The Royal Scots in Baghdad, The Highlanders in Basra – while The Royal Highland Fusiliers are preparing to return from UN peacekeeping duties in Cyprus and The Black Watch and The King’s Own Scottish Borderers are in Belfast. Although all five battalions will eventually have fixed bases (see box) they will continue to be deployed all over the world. Officers regard this as a plus, arguing that the chance to serve abroad and see action has always been an incentive and today is no different.

“Most of the Jocks want to do a tour in Iraq or Afghanistan – it’s why they joined the army,” claims a younger officer. “It may just be for bragging rights in the pub but there’s more to it than that – they’re well trained and they want to see if the training works.”
A further incentive to inclusiveness is provided by the decision to bring the Territorial Army (TA) into the new regiment. They will form the regiment’s 7th and 8th battalions and there will be greater opportunities for part-time TA soldiers to be integrated into the work of the regular army.

Already some 10% of the 8000-strong garrison in Basra is provided by TA troops, but while their presence is welcome – and essential – it has caused problems. TA soldiers often feel isolated when they return from overseas engagements – the new set-up should offer them more support and career enhancement. Organisations such as Combat Stress, which deals with the treatment of post-traumatic stress syndrome in service personnel, have already reported a rise in referrals involving TA soldiers who have served in Iraq. Senior officers hope that the new set-up will provide greater support and understanding for the reservists.

This is the beginning of a momentous and potentially turbulent period in the history of the British Army. The formation of the new Scottish regiment is part of a wider programme of reforms – known as Future Army Structures – which sees the end of 40 single-battalion regiments and the emergence of 12 large infantry regiments, each containing up to five operational battalions.

In another radical change south of the Border, which is the equal of the Scottish amalgamations, The Devon and Dorset Regiment, The Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment, The Light Infantry and The Royal Green Jackets are being amalgamated and will reform as The Rifles. Officers in Scottish regiments are at pains to point out that the reorganisation is taking place across the army and if it is to be successful it has to be embraced by every serving soldier.

“People are resistant to change,” says another officer who served on one of Loudon’s working groups. “It’s natural and we’re aware of the problems, but to balance that we’ve gone out of our way to explain fully what will be happening and what the future holds. If people know and understand what’s happening to them it makes it much easier to accept the changes.”
In the run-up to formation day, the army has been unusually open in its attempts to promote the new regiment – contrary to much speculation the old regimental headquarters will be retained as “home headquarters” and the regimental museums are safe – but it cannot disguise the disquiet felt in many quarters that the armed forces are being cut too deeply and too quickly at a time when they have more responsibilities on their hands than ever before.

At a time when there are major deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan – according to recently leaked papers the operations in Afghanistan’s Helmand province could last for 20 years – the army is being cut back to 102,000 soldiers. Some critics fear that the army is being reduced to an unsustainable level by Treasury-driven cuts which will soon impair its ability to act efficiently.
“The Prime Minister is probably the only member of the government who cares a fig for the armed forces, because he likes to use them,” claimed the military historian Max Hastings in a recent presentation to army staff officers. “But over the last seven years, it has been depressing to see that his enthusiasm for playing with soldiers has not been matched by resolution in standing up to the Treasury, and ensuring that the armed forces are given proper means to accomplish the job he wants them to do.”

[Denat]

Really sad !

What I admired at most in the british military, was the deepest respect for it's own history and heritage. Those disbanded regiments have their living spirit, spirit of honour, courage and devotion to duty of generations that have served under their colours. The fighting spirit that will never die.

And now tradition that was passed down from preceding generations will be erased by one typicaly shameful decision of liberal government, containing of stupid ****heads, having no idea of what tradition is.

If blair rules longer, the name will be changed to 1st (scottish) Motorised Rifle Regiment.

[Lord Flashheart]

Chins up, lads, You´ve still got he name and the insignia with the new battallions.... where I come from, disbanded regiment with proud traditions of 300 years of service, or more, are completely disbanded and forgotten about. Servicemen are put under new capbadges when reorganizing, with little sense of tradition... I think the british way of keeping the names with the new bn are a good way of preserving the heritage and also to benefit from old traditions when reorganizing the units..
I wish my old rgt could be a bn or a coy with my new parent unit but no... new insignia and traditions are forced upon me and my mates.

[James]

The Scottish Regiments will never die.

Godspeed and Semper Fidelis.

[marktigger]

well we in Northern Ireland went through this in the 1960's with the loss of the Rifles,Skins and Fusileers all of which merged to form the Royal Irish Rangers which was a very successful regiment. The only dificulty with Multi Batalion Regiments is its easier to cut Batalions than Regiments and IMHO this is this Govts long term aim to reduce the army to 9 or 10 Batalions.

A very sad day indeed

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

My biggest fear is that we will eventually lose anything that resembles a Scottish regiment and the further erosion of our military tradition does not bring me any comfort.

[little fatso]

"Tho the guns fade with the rust of ages, tho our trumpettes loose their shine for the loss of our ceremonies and bands and tho our uniforms wither in our drawrs by the insects....our names our traditions and our great deeds live on through history."

R.I.P. Scottish Regiments and may your flame still burn after the guns,trumpetts and uniforms fade from history.

[Royal]

well we in Northern Ireland went through this in the 1960's with the loss of the Rifles,Skins and Fusileers all of which merged to form the Royal Irish Rangers which was a very successful regiment. The only dificulty with Multi Batalion Regiments is its easier to cut Batalions than Regiments and IMHO this is this Govts long term aim to reduce the army to 9 or 10 Batalions.

A very sad day indeed

Indeed. Once the cuts start they will carry on.

The highland regiment that my family soldiered in for 200 years went in 1961 (before I was born) - the reason I soldier where I do.

Considering Tony Bliar and Gordon Brown (the real force behind this) are both Scots, 'tis indeed a sad day. But it won't be long before Jacko and his Para reg arsse lickers make the next cuts - and it'll be even easier the next time.

[DeltaWhisky58]

The march of progress


This week sees the formation of The Royal Regiment of Scotland, the controversial ‘super-regiment’ made up of its six predecessors. With Britain’s forces stretched thin around the world, is it the right time to be reducing troop numbers and risking morale? By Diplomatic Editor Trevor Royle


Yes - but Diplomatic editor of what?

Please state your source, makes a quote far more credible!!!

[DeltaWhisky58]

Indeed. Once the cuts start they will carry on.

The highland regiment that my family soldiered in for 200 years went in 1961 (before I was born) - the reason I soldier where I do.

Considering Tony Bliar and Gordon Brown (the real force behind this) are both Scots, 'tis indeed a sad day. But it won't be long before Jacko and his Para reg arsse lickers make the next cuts - and it'll be even easier the next time.

Indeed - my Late great Uncle Willie who was in his time RSM 1st Seaforths (clearly one half of that new Regiment formed in 1961), and later commissioned in the same Regiment, was deeply upset in 1961 when his beloved Seaforth Highlanders (which he joined in 1928) was merged with The Queens Own Cameron Highlanders. Imagine his feelings when he saw the next merger of the then Queens Own Highlanders with their arch-rivals The Gordon Highlanders in 1994. Thank goodness for him he died aged 95 in 2002 and didn't see the latest insult to tradition issued by faceless civil servants.

My cousin (Willie's great nephew), currently serving as a sergeant with 1 HLDRS - oops forgot 4 SCOTS - in Iraq, is already on his third cap badge having joined up as a Queens Own Highlander in 1992. I don't know how many generations of our family have served the colours in various highland infantry battalions, but like Royal's it spans at least 200 years and my ancestors were at Waterloo and one died at Corunna. Does tradition mean nothing to the bastards in Whitehall?

Oh - just a thought ... ... ... I wonder if my fellow mod is going to change his username from Argyll to 5 Scots? I somehow doubt it! ;-)

[wiking]

Bloody hell, we've got alot of military history in the familys of people here.

Corunna and Waterloo.

Anyone got relatives who served in the 95th rifles?


There's a lot of old scots drowning their sorrows in cases of scotch these days p-)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Bloody hell, we've got alot of military history in the familys of people here.

Corunna and Waterloo.

Anyone got relatives who served in the 95th rifles?


There's a lot of old scots drowning their sorrows in cases of scotch these days p-)

Many British families have long traditions of serving in the same Regiment - I have a frend who served as a major in The Black Watch, his father commanded the 1st battalion, his grandfather was also Black Watch, and as far as I know at least one member of ever generation has served in The Regiment since before Waterloo and the Peninsular wars. I'm sorry to say that thanks to Tony Bliar and his gang of bandits, that tradition is now broken.

What the hell has cases of scotch got to do with the topic? :bash:

[Hiroshima]

I don't know if I had any scottish family serving, but here in the US we have many of our own infantry regiments either as a mere formality or are just names in the history books. Tis an ignoble thing....

[jock4688]

As a EX Jock 1GORDONS, 1 SCOTS GUARDS I am very SAD, LEST WE FORGET , R.I.P. Scots Div.

[Deuterium]

From... http://www.redstate.com/story/2006/4/4/192617/5126

I think he gets it right in the US/UK comparison.



Apr 4th, 2006: 19:26:17
Armies aren’t composed of men. They are composed of regiments. In the US Army we’ve never quite gotten it right. We try very hard, though spasmodically, but the flesh peddlers treat soldiers as widgets and regiments as widget holders. As a result regiments are reflagged willy-nilly, a Buccaneer (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/1-32in.htm) on Friday may be a Wolfhound (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/1-27in.htm) on Monday, and a soldier might never serve more than one tour in a particular regiment or even division in a career. On the other end of the spectrum is the British Army. An army that, for all its faults over the years, has generally nurtured regimental identity and the concept of the regiment as a both rooted in a specific piece of geography and a home and family for its soldiers.
Regimental identity and kinship with those who have gone before you allows even the average soldier to rise to magnificent heights. As the Gloucestershire Regiment was being mauled by the Chinese army at Gloster Hill (http://www.britains-smallwars.com/korea/gloster.html) its troops were reminded that it was the only regiment in the British Army that wore badges on the front and rear of their caps (http://www.glosters.org/bbadge.htm) which they had earned for fighting surrounded and back-to-back at the Battle of Alexandria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alexandria).
The Minden regiments (http://www.britishbattles.com/seven-years/minden.htm) wear a wild rose behind their cap badge on Minden Day, August 1. Other regiments wear items symbolic of vanquished foes. Unsurprisingly, mostly commemorating victories over the French back when the world actually feared the fleur de lis and tricolor. The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers wears a hackle with the upper half red, the lower half white. A white hackle was worn by the French defenders of Santa Lucia (ironic symbolism for a French regiment, wasn’t it). The Northumberland Fusiliers, an ancestor of the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, took the white hackles, dipped them in the blood of slain Frenchmen, and made them their own. The bearskins worn by the Foot Guards were earned because of the rout of the French Imperial Guard, who wore bearskins, at Waterloo. The cap badge of the Scots Greys (http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/cav/D02rsg.htm), now the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, commemorating a French regimental eagle that regiment took at Waterloo.
But few regiments have so entered popular culture as the Scottish Regiments of the British Army. The very term “Thin Red Line” comes from the 93rd (Sutherland) Highlanders who turned back the Russians at Balaklava. The 92d (Gordon) Highlanders, shouting "Scotland Forever," held onto the stirrups of the Royal Scots Greys and joined in their charge that overthrew French cavalry at Waterloo. Pipe Major Cameron of the Gordons spent most of the Battle of Waterloo outside the regimental square playing Johnny Cope (http://www.contemplator.com/scotland/cope.html) on a historic set of warpipes. Pipe Major MacKay of the Camerons marched around his regimental square playing a more traditional piobroch Cogadh na Sith.
The Highland Fusiliers and the Seaforth Highlanders (now part of the Highlanders) launched the military career of Arthur Wellesley at Assaye.
In the trenches of World War I, the Black Watch, which policed the Highlands for Britain and in the bloody aftermath of the Jacobin Rising of 1745 had its ranks swelled by former rebels because it was the only non-capital expression of highland culture, earned the interesting sobriquet “Ladies from Hell” from German landsers.
So I was sadden yesterday to read (http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2006/03/28/story8170509t0.shtm) that the six Scottish infantry regiments, The Black Watch (http://www.theblackwatch.co.uk/newsite/index.html), the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (http://home.rochester.rr.com/argyllsutherland/A&S%20Regimental%20History.htm), the Royal Scots (http://www.army.mod.uk/royalscots/history/index.html), the Royal Highland Fusiliers (http://www.army.mod.uk/rhf/regimental_history/regimental_history.htm), the King’s Own Scottish Borderers (http://www.kosb.co.uk/history.htm) and the Highlanders (http://www.cabarfeidh.com/highlanders%20history.htm) are being amalgamated into the single Royal Regiment of Scotland.
To add insult to injury, the Royal Scots and the King’s Own Scottish Borderers are being combined into a single battalion.
There are quite possibly good reasons why this has come to pass, though those proffered by Geoffrey Hoon don’t pass the laugh test, and I give the British Army credit for at least retaining the various regimental traditions within single battalions. Amalgamations are not new and many of the storied regiments in today’s British Army are, in fact, amalgamations of even older regiments. But any way it is sliced this is a tragedy. It seems to mark the dominance of an age where machines are valued more than men and which will ultimately see camaraderie, claigh mohr, and the bagpipes banished from the battlefield. Or, at least, a valiant effort made by the green eyeshades types in that direction. I hope I’m not around to see it because war is terrible and war bereft of those customs and traditions that allow men to cling to their humanity in the face of war is unimaginable.

[EvanL]

We will keep the highland regiments alive in Canada. You can count on us for that.

[Sierra_Tango69]

Geoffry Hoon is an arse...

It sickens me to remind me that the Regiments my forefathers fought in and represented, are being merged...
Real unnecessary and sad.

[Bombtrack]

We will keep the highland regiments alive in Canada. You can count on us for that.
I can tell by our training that eventually the reserves in Canada will be amalgated. The way we train now drops regiments to company sized formations and has all the infantry regiments in a brigade serve as one battalion. It only makes sense since that reflects our current troop levels - our regimental system is based on the size of our forces during the Second World War. Also, we'd save a **** lot of money if we do amalgamate the reserves, so I do think it's a very real possibility in the future. Every highland regiment in Canada is a reserve regiment, so I don't know if the highland regiments will survive here either.

[Bombtrack]

Thoughts?


(filler)

[Sancho Pancho]

Since Americans believe in national batallions, I can't see what the whole fuss is all about. Nevertheless, I guess this has caused a lot of angst in Scotland. Here's a nice article by John Keegan (Daily Telegraph) on the subject:

Scots resent the merging of their glorious infantry
By John Keegan
(Filed: 29/03/2006)

The reorganisation of the Scottish Division of Infantry is the most sensitive of the Army reorganisations because of the strong local affiliations of the Scottish Infantry regiments. Not only is reorganisation involved. One of the six Scottish Infantry battalions is to be dispensed with, a move demanded by Gordon Brown to make funds available for social spending. The economy is required even though the Army is fighting a war in Iraq which is stretching the infantry to breaking point.

The five surviving units are to become numbered battalions of a new Royal Regiment of Scotland, though they are, thanks to a fight by their colonels, to retain their historic titles. Thus the Black Watch will attach the suffix 3rd Battalion Royal Regiment of Scotland to its famous name. The reduction is to be achieved by amalgamating the Royal Scots and the King's Own Scottish Borderers. The new regiment will be known as the Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion Royal Regiment of Scotland. The two have been resisting amalgamation for years. It has been forced upon them because both are lowland regiments and have some difficulty in recruiting up to strength.

The other regiments affected are the Royal Highland Fusiliers founded in the 1960s by the amalgamation of two Glasgow regiments the Highland Light Infantry and the Royal Scots Fusiliers; the Highlanders, the amalgamation of the Gordon Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders and the Seaforth Highlanders; and the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. The Argylls escaped amalgamation in the 1960s because of a vigorous and skilful public relations campaign which resulted in the biggest petition ever presented to a government office.

The new amalgamation does serious damage to Scotland's illustrious military history. The Royal Scots, the 1st of Foot, is the senior British regiment of infantry and the oldest existing regiment in the world. It was founded in 1633 for service under the crown of France and also served the Swedish king before being brought into the British army in 1684 after the restoration of Charles II. It cherishes the nickname Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard. It has the distinction of displaying on its colours all four of Marlborough's victories, Blenheim, Ramillies, Oudenarde and Malplaquet in 1704-8 as well as Waterloo.

The King's Own Scottish Borderers is one of very few infantry regiments to have a naval battle honour, for serving aboard ship at the Glorious First of June, 1794. It also has both Mons and Gallipoli from the First World War and Imphal from the Second.

General Sir Michael Jackson, the Chief of the Defence Staff, shares with Mr Brown the responsibility for bringing about these changes, which also affect the English, Welsh and Irish regiments. Gen Jackson's argument is that the changes will improve the career patterns of soldiers by reducing postings between stations and so stabilising family life. There is substance in that argument but it has not quelled opposition.

The old faithful of some regiments are very angry indeed, particularly those of the Cheshire regiment the 22nd Foot, which is losing both its title and its Cheshire home, In future it is to be based in Yorkshire. The light infantry, the Green Jackets and some West Country regiments have been bundled up into an amorphous regiment to be known as The Rifles. It is in Scotland that the most dissatisfaction is to be expected. Bad news for Mr Brown.

[LazerLordz]

Well, thank you DeltaWhisky58 for setting me staight! I'd prefer to be wrong about this! Still, it's too bad that a democratically-elected government can get away with such bullshiat!! I drank a healthy dose of whisky (alas it was Japanese, as it was the only kind available) in honor of the Gordons, Camerons, Seaforths, Black Watch, Argyll and Sutherlands, KOSB, Royal Scots, Royal Highland Fusiliers, and the old Cameronians tonight!
The memories of Tel El Kiber, Waterloo, Majuba, Ypres, and El Alamein will live forever!!! A special salute to the men of the Black Watch, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, and King's Own Scottish Borderers, with whom I served. (please excuse the drunken ramblings!)

The Gordon, Sutherland, Cameron and Seaforth Highlanders fought and shed blood on Singapore soil.

It's sad to see these units broken up into battalions.

[DANJANOU]

I can tell by our training that eventually the reserves in Canada will be amalgated. The way we train now drops regiments to company sized formations and has all the infantry regiments in a brigade serve as one battalion. It only makes sense since that reflects our current troop levels - our regimental system is based on the size of our forces during the Second World War. Also, we'd save a **** lot of money if we do amalgamate the reserves, so I do think it's a very real possibility in the future. Every highland regiment in Canada is a reserve regiment, so I don't know if the highland regiments will survive here either.


Most likely you're right, hopefully a rational amalgamation would develop which would see 4-5 composite Canadian Highland Regiments/Bns arise from this action.

[jojo]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

[California Joe]

*pulls up chair, opens beer*

I'd get on with explaining your reasoning pal, and why the Scottish Regiments should care you don't have time for them, before the sh*tstorm starts when the Scottish Mods show up and read the dismissive and insulting manner in which you have referred to their heritage. Feel free.

FYI Argyll got his name from his former regiment and Royal and DeltaWhisky58 have already cited their feelings on the matter in this very thread.

[jeffe]

Sad and unfortunate news. Many people, including politicians, do not realize the role that history and tradition play in spurring men to join and fight.

[CruddyLeper]

Sad and unfortunate news. Many people, including politicians, do not realize the role that history and tradition play in spurring men to join and fight.

News? Check the date of the first post, eh?

[SBL]

Leave it to the bureaucrats to murder tradition. I really hate to hear about this sort of thing.

[James]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

Apparently you had time enough to bring back this post.

Nicely done.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

Aw, you are sooooooo ****ed.

[Flagg]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

I commend you for providing the new DS standard for a UD

[Midav]

I suggest ya drop it jojo... childish and stupid to bring this up. Let history be history. People will be sad by this news long after we are all passed. Why add salt to the wounds?

[CruddyLeper]

I see a lot of slagging of politicians, crying into drinks, and mostly ignorance of one fact;-


And, against all odds, recruiting is improving. While numbers are still on the low side, recruiting for the new regiment is running at 84% of target.

In other words... fewer people want to join up than are actually needed to maintain the individual regiments.

[Scotus]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

If I had a time machine, I would take you on an action-packed tour of my family history. I am sure Big Duncan from the Glengarry Light Infantry would love talking to you circa 1815. Moving ahead, I could introduce you to my great grandfather, who was at the Somme with the Black Watch and later in WW2 in middle age. I wouldn't be surprised if they were also willing to argue the point with you - in fact they might even bring their own point, such as the one at the end of a bayonet.

[gaijinsamurai]

I nominate jojo for the "MP.net Dumbarse of the Week" award.
So, you think a soldier who served at El Alamein, in the Burmese Jungles, or the deserts of Yemen are "legends in their own minds" and "mere cannon fodder"?
If this is your attitude towards people who serve your country in uniform, perhaps this is not the right forum for you.....

[Johnny_H02]

Great thread, unfortunatly the Highland Regiments in Canada have the potential to meet a far worse fate then our Scottish Compatriots, the Federal Government in Canada has shown far more distaste for military tradition then the British, if they can combine all branches and throw them in Gas station uniforms ( see the mid 70's through mid 80's ) they can sure as hell show utter disregard for Highland regiments that are only at Coy. Strength.


Recently the Brits just merged the two largest Welsh regiments :( which was a sad event, however I hear that 2nd Bttln of Royal Regiment of Wales is known as Rorkes Drift Coy. and they still carry the battle honours of the 2nd/24th Warwickshires later South Wales Boarders.

[Beowulf]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

Everyone else used a lot of verbage, but I'll get right to the point.


You are a cockbag.

[Chops]

Ah Beo, you sir are a diplomat and a scholar! p-)

And yeah, Jojo is officially on the **** List...

[Beowulf]

Ah Beo, you sir are a diplomat and a scholar! p-)

And yeah, Jojo is officially on the **** List...

p-)

Cheers Mate. Must be all the equal opportunity training the Army's been doing the last few years, gets me all warm and fuzzy inside.

How's business? I haven't been able to work with those guys yet, but I'll try and get you some decent pics when I do.

I gotta go see a guy about a thing over at this place.

ciao

[getl0st]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

In your profile it states that your Occupation is: Carer - learning disabilities.

Now are you the provider of care or the receiver of care?

You are obviously suffering from OCSD (Obsessive Compulsive Stupidity Disorder). If you are the Receiver of Care, allowances and exceptions may be made for you.

If you are the provider of Care, well then you, us and those that you care for have a serious problem. People with Learning Disabilities have enough trouble with learning without being exposed to complete **** like yourself. The only thing I think you would be capable teaching or helping anyone with is gross Stupidy.

I suspect you may be on the verge of a very negative mp.net Learning experience.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

You Sir, are one of the most ignorant, bigoted excuses for a Brit I have has the misfortune to come across. Had it not been for the Jock regiments, you would probably be speaking either French or German now.

Now do me a favour and **** off away from this board.

If you do wish to argue the point, have a go - but if you do, I don't hold out much hope for your future.

[Argyll]

Knob Jockey............what's your Regimental back ground?

[oldsoak]

Knob Jockey............what's your Regimental back ground?

- is there one ? :roll:

I take great umbrage at squaddies being referred to as cannon fodder, regardless of regiment.

[DeltaWhisky58]

I've read some asinine comments from numerous knob-jockeys on this forum over the years, but JoJo's is amongst the worst yet. I hope he has a seriously good explanation for his comments because the ban-stick is anxious to get into action.

A goodly number of my relatives and ancestors are under foreign sod as a result of answering the call to defend him and his kind - I don't take comments like that well - I want his blood!

:bash:

[Hydro]

I wouldn't worry. He is most probably fishing for a response to highlight so-called "double standards".

It is with regards to a thread entitled "The Torture That Is.." in OT&H in which I made remarks that I made that were (and I'm not denying this) insensitive.

He picked up on the fact I'm Scottish, and is likely using that fact to embark on a one man crusade against my comments (which a few other members also made). His stance is "if he can't say bad things about other nationalities, why can I make comments as in that thread" even though I have not actually said anything truly disparaging regarding the handicapped, especially nothing even close to regarding that they are good for nothing, cannon fodder etc. I cannot see how what I have said outmatches for instance, California Joe remarking about thalidomide children and their "one good flipper". (Not trying to draw Joe into this, it's purely an example)

[dacanadianbomb]

So let me get this right, because he has a problem with you, he comes and talks ****e about the Scots.
Theres logic in action for ya.
People are drinking way to many pints of stupidlager nowadays.

[getl0st]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

I think what Jojo needs is a good Scottish Salute.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15512&d=1161608804

15512

[Hydro]

So let me get this right, because he has a problem with you, he comes and talks ****e about the Scots.
Theres logic in action for ya.
People are drinking way to many pints of stupidlager nowadays.


It looks a little that way. It's as if he's thinking "If Hydro can say bad things about he handicapped, I can say bad things about the Scots, everyone will get angry, and I will swiftly step in and open everyones eyes to the bigotry and double standards".


Except, it seems, for one thing. What I said was insensitive sure. But did I ever suggest that the handicapped are useless, cannon fodder, a drain on society or whatever anything vaguely equivalent to jojo's comments in this thread? Nope. Do I personally hold these feelings? Nope. He is comparing apples and oranges, unfortunately. If there is a point to be made, he is approaching it in the totally wrong manner.

[Lov3ll]

You Sir, are one of the most ignorant, bigoted excuses for a Brit I have has the misfortune to come across. Had it not been for the Jock regiments, you would probably be speaking either French or German now.

Now do me a favour and **** off away from this board.

If you do wish to argue the point, have a go - but if you do, I don't hold out much hope for your future.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Scots allied with the French and helping the French to attack the English :D

[DeltaWhisky58]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Scots allied with the French and helping the French to attack the English :D

Yes, pre Act of Union (1707) unless of course you count the rebels of the 45 rebellion - hardly mainstream on my opinion.

[kosse]

What's the history behind the skirts?

[DeltaWhisky58]

They're warm and let your balls swing free. ;-)

[Meldon]

I know one thing about scots, they still remember the Auld Alliance (too bad the french did not) and they will never forget that they can still raise now and be a nation again.

Long live Sean Connery, the SNP and Bonnie Prince Charlie! (and Tartan Special!!)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Long live Sean Connery, the SNP and Bonnie Prince Charlie! (and Tartan Special!!)

Spit! An ex-pat who hasn't lived in Scotland for over 40 years, a bunch of nationalist idiots and a alcoholic Italian gay-boy - no thanks!

[kosse]

They're warm and let your balls swing free. ;-)

Sounds good but won't the wind blow from the underneath. I'd hate to freeze my balls p-)

[DeltaWhisky58]

Sounds good but won't the wind blow from the underneath. I'd hate to freeze my balls p-)

Not in my experience. I'm sure Argyll will give you a similar opinion.

[Thunder]

Spit! An ex-pat who hasn't lived in Scotland for over 40 years, a bunch of nationalist idiots and a alcoholic Italian gay-boy - no thanks!
Are you spitting at the Sean Connery?

Blasphemy!

[DeltaWhisky58]

Are you spitting at the Sean Connery?

Blasphemy!

Why Blasphemy - what has he ever done for me or my homeland apart from supooritng the SNP from afar - the party who wishes to ruin Scotland as I know and love it.

[Hydro]

Why Blasphemy - what has he ever done for me or my homeland .



Erm, defeat Blofeld?




p-)

[Thunder]

Why Blasphemy - what has he ever done for me or my homeland apart from supooritng the SNP from afar - the party who wishes to ruin Scotland as I know and love it.
Clearly you have not seen him as James Bond. He is James Bond. To be honest, I have never even heard of the SNP, so I'll not go into that. What has he done for Scotland? Hmm... representing it with his accent and by wearing checkered skirts? p-)


http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/9003/seankilt2ug1.jpg

[DeltaWhisky58]

Clearly you have not seen him as James Bond. He is James Bond. To be honest, I have never even heard of the SNP, so I'll not go into that. What has he done for Scotland? Hmm... representing it with his accent and by wearing checkered skirts? p-)


So what - he was paid very well for that, but it doesn't earn him my respect.

To be honest, I had a lot of time for Mr Connery until he started to dabble in Scottish poltics from a distance. If he thinks he has the right to interfere in Scottish politics, he ought to at least live here, pay the same taxes as us and not hide in a series of tax havens. That is why I lost all respect for him.

[EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

So what - he was paid very well for that, but it doesn't earn him my respect.

To be honest, I had a lot of time for Mr Connery until he started to dabble in Scottish poltics from a distance. If he thinks he has the right to interfere in Scottish politics, he ought to at least live here, pay the same taxes as us and not hide in a series of tax havens. That is why I lost all respect for him.

Exactly, I dont even class him as Scottish no more, as he has totally left the country, and basically only has something to do with Scotland when there is something in it for him.

I see no reason for him to get involved with anything Scottish, especially politics as he was quick enough to leave us behind at the drop of a hat, and only advertises Scotland when he himself is looking for publicity, i.e. wearing a kilt at a film premier etc.

Na, I got no respect for him either, same with that wannabe designer politician Mr T Sheridan, maybe one day soon we will have a daily newspaper where he is'nt mentioned in it to some degree or another due to his sexploits.

As for Blair, I aint even gonna start, cuz I will not stop, he has totally destroyed Scotland's Regiments and has did so with a smile on his face.

As far as I am concerned, England can keep him, they can also keep the other 2 aswell....

[D-gin]

What's the history behind the skirts?

Scotsman have such big balls that they were never able find a pair of pants that fit. Also, back in the day when they fought the british they would flash them before battle for the psychological effect and to show how manly they where in comparison......p-)



Sarcasm.............

[Thunder]

Fair enough. What about the bicycle? The waterproof Macintosh? The MRI scanner? Infact, if I remember correctly, it was a Scotsman who first used the ": )" smiley.

[dacanadianbomb]

They're warm and let your balls swing free. ;-)

If you ever needed a reason to get one,here it is lads.
We need more swing freedom.

[Flamming_Python]

Scotsman have such big balls that they were never able find a pair of pants that fit. Also, back in the day when they fought the british they would flash them before battle for the psychological effect and to show how manly they where in comparison......p-)



Sarcasm.............

Hate to nitpick, but they fought againt the English

[EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

Excellent cannon fodder. Legends in their own minds. I have no time for them, and am quite willing to argue the point.

****, I just saw this post, I didnt see it yesterday when I previously posted on the subject, but you little ****, as has previously been pointed out, if it was'nt for the Scottish Regiment's you would most likely be speaking another language, when England needed any military action done, whom did they call upon to get the job done right ?

Scottish Infantry Regiment's were the most feared regiment's of the British army all of the last century and earlier, 100+ years and you calling them excellent cannon fodder and legends in their own mind is beyond retardedness, you sir are a ****fuk...

Sorry for my language mod's, but crap like what jojo posted is just downright insulting.

Bringback National service and watch all these young loudmouth wannabe gangster kiddie's **** themselves.....

[Warden]

So what - he was paid very well for that, but it doesn't earn him my respect.

To be honest, I had a lot of time for Mr Connery until he started to dabble in Scottish poltics from a distance. If he thinks he has the right to interfere in Scottish politics, he ought to at least live here, pay the same taxes as us and not hide in a series of tax havens. That is why I lost all respect for him.


To be fair he has paid a lot of tax since he has been away.

Connery’s £3.7m UK tax bill - 06/03/03
Sir Sean Connery has revealed that he has paid over £3.7million to the tax man since 1997 despite living in the Bahamas.

The former Edinburgh milkman disclosed his bills to The Herald newspaper in a bid to silence his critics. MP’s and some of the media have long claimed Sir Sean’s tax exile status undermined his staunch support for Scottish independence.

The former James Bond star also claimed he was denied a knighthood by Labour in 1997 because of his strong alliance with the Scottish National Party (SNP).

Sir Sean said: "I’m an easy target because of my political opinions but I defy anyone in Scotland to find one detail where I knowingly ever did anything that was to the detriment of Scotland. It gets up my nose."

He also paid 4.5 million dollars - £2.8 million at today’s exchange rate - in UK tax prior to 1997 for the films First Night, Indiana Jones and The Russia House.

I haven't got the origional article but i do remember it from a few years back, but he should stay out of politics.

It's damn shame about the Scottish Regiments, i saw the Black watch get the freedom of Fife earlier on the week, great but sad day.

[DeltaWhisky58]

To be fair he has paid a lot of tax since he has been away.

Connery’s £3.7m UK tax bill - 06/03/03
Sir Sean Connery has revealed that he has paid over £3.7million to the tax man since 1997 despite living in the Bahamas.

The former Edinburgh milkman disclosed his bills to The Herald newspaper in a bid to silence his critics. MP’s and some of the media have long claimed Sir Sean’s tax exile status undermined his staunch support for Scottish independence.

The former James Bond star also claimed he was denied a knighthood by Labour in 1997 because of his strong alliance with the Scottish National Party (SNP).

Sir Sean said: "I’m an easy target because of my political opinions but I defy anyone in Scotland to find one detail where I knowingly ever did anything that was to the detriment of Scotland. It gets up my nose."

He also paid 4.5 million dollars - £2.8 million at today’s exchange rate - in UK tax prior to 1997 for the films First Night, Indiana Jones and The Russia House.

I haven't got the origional article but i do remember it from a few years back, but he should stay out of politics.

It's damn shame about the Scottish Regiments, i saw the Black watch get the freedom of Fife earlier on the week, great but sad day.

I don't doubt he has paid some UK income tax on his UK-based earnings, but this is still only a fraction of what he would have paid had he been a bona fide UK-resident.

As he is not a UK-resident, I don't think he has a right to interfere in UK politics. IMO he should be either in or out, not trying to straddle the fence.

[D-gin]

Hate to nitpick, but they fought againt the English

Oops......sorry.:oops:

[gaz]

****, I just saw this post, I didnt see it yesterday when I previously posted on the subject, but you little ****, as has previously been pointed out, if it was'nt for the Scottish Regiment's you would most likely be speaking another language, when England needed any military action done, whom did they call upon to get the job done right ?

Yeah, those English guys were cowering under the bedcovers, and just for good measure they took the Welsh and Irish with them, plus, the rest of the Commonwealth (Or Empire as it was) liked to hide out in the wardrobe, and it was a mighty big wardrobe to fit in all those Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Fijians, Indians...

[EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

Yeah, those English guys were cowering under the bedcovers,

Hardly, the fact of the matter remains that the Scottish Regiments were classed as amongst the best and were called upon due to their reputation.

This has nothing to do with saying that England can't fight or have crap Regiments, as that isnt the case and it would be foolish to even think so. England, Ireland and Wales all have excellent Regiments but the fact remains that over the last 150 years Scotlands infantry units were classed as amongst the best in the British army, if not the best that is and also classed as amongst the best fighting troops worldwide.

Many times have Scottish troops been sent to do a job rather than English/Irish/Welsh troops, simply due to their reputation for getting the job done and for being fearsome opponents if ever challenged/engaged.

I have utmost Respect for All of the Units in the British Army and most of our Commonwealth Allies, who like Canada today have shown utmost professionalism in various conflicts around the world at one point in time.

I specifically mention Canada here, due to the fact that they are doing a tough and dangerous job in the Stan, but are doing it with the determination and professionalism that we ourselves are accustomed to and continue to soldier on despite some horrific incidents.

Maybe I am biased when it comes to Canada, as Scotland and Canada have a long long history, But me personally I would work alongside the Canadian's anyday, the same can't be said for some other countries which will remain nameless...

[safpiper1]

I had the pleasure of appearring in the last Edinburgh Tattoo in between the Highlanders and the Black Watch.

It was a great priviledge for me and my regiment The South African Irish Regiment.

I think the UK will regret this merger as it doesnt solve the problem which is supposed to be one of recruitment. We can see already how stretched the UK armed forces are.

My Regiment is affiliated to the Royal Irish Regiment who are themselves going through a similar consolidation. Its a great shame.

Simon

Piper SA Irish Regiment
Faugh a Ballagh
www.sairish.co.za (http://www.sairish.co.za)