Estonian soldier faces 80 lashes in UAE for ****** harassment

[He219]

Estonian soldier faces 80 lashes in UAE for ****** harassment
Tue Apr 4, 7:54 AM ET

DUBAI (AFP) - An Islamic court in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) has sentenced an Estonian soldier to one month in prison and 80 lashes for consuming alcohol and alleged ****** assault, a newspaper reported.

The soldier who served as a UN peacekeeper in Afghanistan opted for the 80 lashes rather than an extra three months in jail for the ****** assault charge, said the Khaleej Times.

The one-month term was imposed for consuming alcohol at the airport in Sharjah -- a conservative member of the seven emirates forming the UAE -- which bans the consumption of alcohol but sells it at the duty-free shop.

The English-language paper said the soldier, named as Andrie Carol, has already spent one month in prison and would be deported after the sentence was carried out.

An Egyptian policewoman who works at Sharjah airport charged that the soldier tried to rape her as she slept in the ladies staff room during a break, the Khaleej Times reported in March.

It quoted the soldier as saying from his prison cell that he had been exhausted and drunk when the purported incident occurred during a stopover in Sharjah on his way home from Afghanistan.

"The only thing I can remember is that I wanted to go to the men's toilet and I asked somebody who pointed to the room and I just went in. I did not have any intention of raping or touching any woman," Carol said.

A Sharjah police official was quoted as accusing the soldier of failing to respect the culture and religion of the Muslim Gulf state.

The first hearing in the case was held in March, during which the policewoman reportedly said she was unsure of Carol's identity as she had "run away" when the incident occurred.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060404/wl_mideast_afp/uaeestoniajustice_060404115410)

[Johnny_H02]

wow hard to believe there are armies that stil employe Flogging as a punishment. not that it wont look good on him for attempting to rape someone, I just figured it wasnt done anymore.

[Buckeye67]

It isn't the army that's imposing the punishment, JH.


An Islamic court in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) has sentenced...

I'm guessing that's just a standard sentencing option in their criminal justice system.

[Roaming East]

Lucky thing for the woman that she didnt get raped. She might have gotten hanged for it.

[Mr.K]

he probably opened a door or bumped into her. Courageous decision on his behalf.

[AOCBravo2004]

Why the F do they sell alcohol at the airport if you can't drink it???

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Why the F do they sell alcohol at the airport if you can't drink it???Try going to the duty free at any airport buying a bottle of Vodka and necking it.

[Neoboy]

Why the F do they sell alcohol at the airport if you can't drink it???

Well you can buy guns but you're not really allowed to kill anyone.

I suppose it also says something about their security if he just walked into staff rooms and also if he was coming home from duty wasn't he still with the army and thus should've been disciplined by Estonian army/UN?

[Dalleer]

The whole case is pretty confusing: I'm not ready to entirely roll the blame on this Estonian soldier. I mean, who knows what really happened there? It's not like they'd send the freakin' CSI over there to investigate the crime scene and question the people involved: as I've understood not too many arab states utilize due process either.

So these sorts of punishments , it would seem, rely on accusations and second hand accounts of the situation. It's just too sketchy to say for sure if the things that this female police officer said really happened: she was even unsure of the identity of the assailant herself.

I'm not ready to judge anyone here.

[Scotus]

Not having been there or knowing anyone in the case, I am not going to definitively judge one way or another.

But for anyone looking at this from the outside, it is important to understand some cultural considerations with regard to the "rape" allegation.

The Estonian soldier may have been "innocently" flirting with the Arab woman. However, pre-marital adults in Arab Muslim countries generally have no ****** or romantic experience and anything that would seem like it was going in that direction could be interpreted very negatively - even worse when the other is a non-Muslim foreigner.

If you look at marriage contracts from Muslim countries, men will be described as "single" before the marriage while the women's "marital status" would be "virgin."

It appears he was probably drunk and made the mistake of thinking that the woman would understand the same cultural/social cues as those back home. However, he may have tried to rape her. But rapists, especially strong and fit ones, usually don't let their victims "run away" as the article mentions, and their faces haunt the victims for a long time - yet this woman apparently could not recognise the soldier.

[rk]

Holy crap.

I can't believe the guy opted for the 80 lashes. If the whipping (or resultant infection) doesn't kill him, he'll be prostrate on his belly for at least a month while he heals up.

I would have taken the 3 months in jail.

[JasonH]

Holy crap.

I can't believe the guy opted for the 80 lashes. If the whipping (or resultant infection) doesn't kill him, he'll be prostrate on his belly for at least a month while he heals up.

I would have taken the 3 months in jail.

I guess even rapists in countries over sea's are considered moveing targets in jail. My brother spent 5 years in a max and he said rapists would usually get brutally beaten, raped themselves, or killed.

Even criminals have a concious sometimes.

[Dalleer]

All in all, not a bad way to go for rapists in prison then.

[TheBelgian]

Why the F do they sell alcohol at the airport if you can't drink it???

You can buy condoms in a pharmacy, but you cant use em there either

[Warlord]

I've seen what happens after 80 lashes. It isn't pretty. Guys who are caught drinking here in SAudi get 80. My co worker got his.

[toki]

Isn't anyone here surprised, that you get only 3 months for trying to rape a woman? Even though i understand that he maybe fell victim to a misunderstanding which would be tough (not on us to judge anyway), but if he tried to rape, 3 months is a light sentence. The lashes seem brutal, but honestly for the conviction it is nothing. OK a few scars and 2 months of bad sleep. It is just the medievil way that seems hard for us.

[Dalleer]

You're certainly right: the punishment he would've received was just a slap in the wrist by our terms.

Somehow it doesn't really surprise me, though: just look at the way they treat their women in those countries anyway.

[Telnyashka]

We dont know the facts of this case so its pointless to assume anything

[rk]

You're probably wrong.

The prevailing Saudi definition of "attempted rape" is extremely broad, and encompasses almost all behavior that westerners term ****** harassment.

It's entirely possible--perhaps even probable--that this guy's "crime" was merely the act of stumbling into the wrong lavatory drunk and being insufficiently apologetic to the surprised arab woman.



Isn't anyone here surprised, that you get only 3 months for trying to rape a woman? Even though i understand that he maybe fell victim to a misunderstanding which would be tough (not on us to judge anyway), but if he tried to rape, 3 months is a light sentence. The lashes seem brutal, but honestly for the conviction it is nothing. OK a few scars and 2 months of bad sleep. It is just the medievil way that seems hard for us.

[He219]

Isn't anyone here surprised, that you get only 3 months for trying to rape a woman? Even though i understand that he maybe fell victim to a misunderstanding which would be tough (not on us to judge anyway), but if he tried to rape, 3 months is a light sentence. The lashes seem brutal, but honestly for the conviction it is nothing. OK a few scars and 2 months of bad sleep. It is just the medievil way that seems hard for us.

I don't doubt that all one has to do is look at or touch an Arab woman the wrong way for a biased authoritarian figure to call it some form of "****** assault", but don't trivialize 80 lashes as a "Light" sentence the way you just did.




Before 1806, Royal Navy captains were not limited to the number of lashes they were allowed to mete out. From that date onward, however, 12 was the official limit. Unfortunately, this was an unenforced regulation, and it would not catch the attention of the admiralty for a captain to report a sentence of 72 lashes. Officially, a court martial could only prescribe lashes in excess of 12. The involvement of a court of officers was not necessarily a guarantee of a lighter sentence. George Melvin of HMS Antelope received 300 lashes for desertion. Some may have considered this merciful; the prescribed sentence for this offense was hanging. The results of a flogging were heinous indeed. One description likened the victim's back to resembling roasted meat burnt nearly black before a scorching fire. More sadistic captains assigned right- and left-handed boatswains to alternately issue lashes, so the cuts could be evenly crisscrossed.
source (http://www.nelsonsnavy.co.uk/broadside8.html)


No offense, but you call 80 lashes a light sentence after your own Government released Mohammed Ali Hamadi, responsible for explosives on an airplane and the murder of Robert Dean Stethem (a 23-year-old U.S. Navy diver whose body was thrown on the tarmac at Beirut airport during the hijacking of TWA Flight 847), after serving only 19 years of a "Light" Life Sentence.



Iranian serial killer Mohammed Bijeh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Bijeh) received 100 lashes before he was executed on March 16, 2005.

[rk]

Read the article. The guy had the option to spend either 4 months in jail, or 1 month and receive 80 lashes.

In the U.S., all but the most trivial of misdemeanors have potential sentences greater than 4 months. In my state, for instance, a person could get locked up in state prison for a year for possessing "any usable quantity" of cannabis, and faces a MANDATORY two year sentence if the arrest happens within 1500 feet of a school.

I'd say the sentence was light.


but don't trivialize 80 lashes as a "Light" sentence the way you just did.

[He219]

I read the damn article; I posted it.

These aren't US jails and I already cited the history and application of lashings.

One (1) month and 80 lashes isn't light in my book for a guy accused of rape because he consumed alcohol in an Islamic state and walked into the wrong room after having asked someone where the pisser was at.

[CPL Trevoga]

DAMN!!! I've partied pretty hard in UAE when we had a few days off while in port. I was probobly the only guy in the MEU who go some in there. They would have hanged me. Dem Arabs make good burgers though, halal meat and stuff.

[Eddy]

A Sharjah police official was quoted as accusing the soldier of failing to respect the culture and religion of the Muslim Gulf state.


my guess is that if we westerners were to carry sentence such punishments for muslims that failed to 'respect the culture and religion of the west'

we'd had another situation like the cartoons last months

[Lazarou]

An Islamic court in the United Arab Emirates


The soldier who served as a UN peacekeeper in Afghanistan

One infidel crusader being punished, about five billion to go.

:roll:

[toki]

I don't doubt that all one has to do is look at or touch an Arab woman the wrong way for a biased authoritarian figure to call it some form of "****** assault", but don't trivialize 80 lashes as a "Light" sentence the way you just did.



No offense, but you call 80 lashes a light sentence after your own Government released Mohammed Ali Hamadi, responsible for explosives on an airplane and the murder of Robert Dean Stethem (a 23-year-old U.S. Navy diver whose body was thrown on the tarmac at Beirut airport during the hijacking of TWA Flight 847), after serving only 19 years of a "Light" Life Sentence.

I said it would be light for attempted rape in our standards. It is not light, when he really did nothing but stumbling in the wrong restroom. And he still had a choice. But we do not know what he did. So i measured the conviction on attempted rape.

For the TWA highjacking. I don't know how you come up with this now. I'm not here to represent my countries own system of justice in every post. it was light, but germany also doesn't allow double conviction. But this was another discussion, doesn't belong here. I just judge by my standards and critizise whenever i think something isn't right. Might be the US, might be Germany or might be the UAE.

[usa320]

my guess is that if we westerners were to carry sentence such punishments for muslims that failed to 'respect the culture and religion of the west'

we'd had another situation like the cartoons last months


well said.

[Ea$y-8]

This is why I will never enter a country under islamic law.

[Uncle Sam]

The 80 lashes won't happen, and if it does, I will be surprised.

[RomanS]

http://www.autobahn.com.br/hall_of_mirrors/devo/devo1.jpg

Now whip it - into shape
Shape it up, get straight
Go forward, move ahead
Try to detect it - it's not too late
To whip it, whip it good

Estonia Strong

[Hukatus]

the whole story about ****** harassment is just plain bull****.
as always the story with most strikeing heading catches the eyes.

here is how it all ended.
false accusations were dropped, police woman admited that there was no physical contact. the soldier was only fined for being drunk in airport international zone and therefore failing to respect local traditions and customs.
after that he was quickly released and finally got home.

[He219]

Good for the Estonian soldier.
Thanks for the update, Hakatus!

How you like dem apples, toki?
p-)

[Uncle Sam]

I knew it!