Why is Grozny not glowing??

[Shake n Bake]

These people are savages




Warning extremely disturbing footage not for the faint hearted.


















http://www.*********.com/elements/Chechenya/ofex_h.wmv

[HumanShield]

prepare to catch lots of **** for posting that :-*$

ill start, its called orgish.com and rotten.com

No where on there was there any indication of some military action. Granted it probably was some thing to do with a military in one form or another...but come on now man...who really wants to watch that?

[George W. Bush]

um.. yeah... that was pretty sick.

Anyone know why the peaceful kind Muslim freedom fighter decided to shoot a man and cut his head off?

[Kingpin]

Why is Grozny not glowing??

Now you see we're very peaceful nation :)

[Javehn]

Why is Grozny not glowing??

Now you see we're very peaceful nation :)

Самый прикол что когда нас учили про городские мочиловки , дали нам Грозный в пример . То биш , как оно не должно выглядеть в конце .

[16 OBr SpN]

Why is Grozny not glowing??

Now you see we're very peaceful nation :)

Самый прикол что когда нас учили про городские мочиловки , дали нам Грозный в пример . То биш , как оно не должно выглядеть в конце .

Which operation were they showing you as an example, 1st or the 2nd?
Can you share some more info?
Of course, as long as "bitahon sade" is kept ;)

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[Javehn]

Why is Grozny not glowing??

Now you see we're very peaceful nation :)

Самый прикол что когда нас учили про городские мочиловки , дали нам Грозный в пример . То биш , как оно не должно выглядеть в конце .

Which operation were they showing you as an example, 1st or the 2nd?
Can you share some more info?
Of course, as long as "bitahon sade" is kept ;)

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

PM

[RomanS]

Did you know that there are about 400+ hours of this stuff in the FSB and MVD archives?

And I'm talking about the footage is edited, so there are only contineous executions and death tortures.

Chechen terrorists just released another video where they videotaped a recon mission not far from Moscow. Its amazing that they were able to sneak that far, and record possible targets for the next suicide attack.

Here is a food for thought-

There were hundreds of cases when Chechen terrorists would dress up as Russian OMON, and other Interior groups. They would enter the village in the busses, and kill their own people. Of course they would have Russian Federation patches, and would seem Russian alright wearing ski masks.

16ObR can you also confirm this? Especially Arbi Baraev's people responsible for killing more of their own Chechen natives, than the Russian soldiers.

And I always asked this, and even the administration of Kavkazcenter.
If they are so swift with cameras, why don't they video tape a cleansing operation from far away.
Come on, its not that hard. Before each cleansing the mayer of the village is briefed by MVD and FSB that the cleansing will take place at this time, and so and so.

Its horrible, because the mayor goes and advises the terrorists to leave the village right away. And we also know that mayor is connected, and talks to the terrorists all the time. But our troops have to tell the mayor about the cleansing to be nice, and actually most of the time the mayor himself participates during the cleansing.

There were couple of cases like Novie Aldi near Grozny where our guys went out of control slightly. But I don't want to go into details. Believe me there were plenty of reasons and evidence to kill certain people there.

16OBR, you should know what I'm talking about

[n_shanygin]

that shows we need to **** up those muslim terrorists so bad

[LordHalbert]

The person who "appears" to be executed did not put up much resistance.

I don't know how authentic that video is - could be faked. It was very low resolution so it'll be hard to prove it's authenticity.

If that execution was real, and I was the person who was to be executed, I wouldn't be just sitting there.

Tis better to die resisting than to be slaughtered like a lamb p-)

[RomanS]

The person who "appears" to be executed did not put up much resistance.

I don't know how authentic that video is - could be faked. It was very low resolution so it'll be hard to prove it's authenticity.

If that execution was real, and I was the person who was to be executed, I wouldn't be just sitting there.

Tis better to die resisting than to be slaughtered like a lamb p-)

He didn't know that he would be executed in the first place. They were all nice to him, and after they shoot him. So now he is in a lot of pain, and tries to only concentrate on how to deal with it. The animals move in


I too agree with you, to die like this is the last death I would take. First you gotta make me to surrender, GOOD LUCK

[ariweiner]

Filthy Russian savages, you can see why they need to be exterminated from Chechnya.

[Javehn]

man ,you are an idiot . Those aren't Russians in the freeking video , those are Chechen bastards . You gotta change your tune someday .

[RomanS]

I HOPE TO SEE AN APOLOGY ariweiner

[Dalleer]

I HOPE TO SEE AN APOLOGY ariweiner

And I hope to see an apology on the stuff you've been spreading around on our latest "clash" on the Stryker-topic.

What was it, "Finnish monkeys", right?

Your friend was civilized enough to deal with the matter, but your actions are still something that I do not value much...

[RomanS]

I HOPE TO SEE AN APOLOGY ariweiner

And I hope to see an apology on the stuff you've been spreading around on our latest "clash" on the Stryker-topic.

What was it, "Finnish monkeys", right?

Sorry if I offended you Finish folks.

Your turn

[Dalleer]

I HOPE TO SEE AN APOLOGY ariweiner

And I hope to see an apology on the stuff you've been spreading around on our latest "clash" on the Stryker-topic.

What was it, "Finnish monkeys", right?

Sorry if I offended you Finish folks.

Your turn

Looks like you've still got some manners left, it's just too bad that I've never personally said anything bad or slanderous about Russia.

I would not know about the other Finns, but there's not a spot on my record when it comes to these matters.

(Hell, maybe I'm the "different Finn" in this board or something)

[Thomsen]

The video shows me the that I´m right with my opinion about these "humans".

hier stand nichts...

Can someone build a wall around them and let the water flow?[/i]

[RomanS]

The video shows me the that I´m right with my opinion about these "humans".

Non-worth-living subhumans...

Can someone build a wall around them and let the water flow?

YOu have to be careful on how you say this. Because we have folks here that will jump on you, and **** on you, and etc. All for saying that you wanna kill them all.

[Collosus]

I don't understand why they do this kind of ****, it is no wonder then that they are hated so much by russian people (soldiers).

[Javehn]

Kavkaz menthality + Islam

[Thomsen]

YOu have to be careful on how you say this. Because we have folks here that will jump on you, and **** on you, and etc. All for saying that you wanna kill them all.

My opinion, I don´t care.

Next step downwards might be growing hairs all over their body and eating bananas.

[Collosus]

Kavkaz menthality + Islam
Well when they get taste of their own medicine they run around complaining and calling for international support!?

[Alpha Leader]

War and hate make people do alot of crazy shi.
By filming it they make "PR" form them self,the sam hizbollah do in Lebanon,filming carbombs and atack on IDF.Then they sell the videos to newschannels for distrubution.
I personally dont know in which category on this Forum it belong???

Next timè i`l just ignore it.
But it is some crazy shi.
Sorry for the misspeling.

[Javehn]

Kavkaz menthality + Islam
Well when they get taste of their own medicine they run around complaining and calling for international support!?

Yes .
Heard of ISM ? Red Cross ? The guys that smudged Russian soldiers , but cried like a pussies when they get with a **** from the Chechens ? Chechens that cried to the world they getting killed .

Too bad you don't know their menthality . They all powerfull and blazing in the words , or when they can kill unarmed soldiers . When the **** gets tough on them ...

[Undo]

I don't understand why they do this kind of ****, it is no wonder then that they are hated so much by russian people (soldiers).

They video tape everything, because that is how they get paid. They send these tapes to binLaden or one of his other cronies and they get a nice check. More barbaric, the more its worth. Those animals have slit a lot of throats. As Permskii said, there are many, many hours of tape.

LordHalbert,

The first time I saw something like that I wanted to believe the same thing...can't be real...no human could do that. Unfortunately, it is real. There are many similar vids floating around the internet. I have a tape of MVD finding the remains of 9 Perm OMON fighters murdered in a similar fashion. Thinking about it ruins my day.

[Collosus]

Yes .
Heard of ISM ? Red Cross ? The guys that smudged Russian soldiers , but cried like a pussies when they get with a **** from the Chechens ? Chechens that cried to the world they getting killed .
I know, and whats more i am always supprised,being polish myself, why so many polish guys defend Chechen "freedom fighters".
Any radical views whether christian or muslin should not be tolerated at all.

[Javehn]

Yes .
Heard of ISM ? Red Cross ? The guys that smudged Russian soldiers , but cried like a pussies when they get with a **** from the Chechens ? Chechens that cried to the world they getting killed .
I know, and whats more i am always supprised,being polish myself, why so many polish guys defend Chechen "freedom fighters".
Any radical views whether christian or muslin should not be tolerated at all.

Well , pretty obvious , no ? Probably many Polish still have feeling to USSR for the 30 plus years of opression , and seying Russia as the main power in USSR . That's why they see Chechens as an underdogs .
But why i am explaining you that ? You are Polish yourself ...

[Collosus]

Well , pretty obvious , no ? Probably many Polish still have feeling to USSR for the 30 plus years of opression , and seying Russia as the main power in USSR . That's why they see Chechens as an underdogs .
But why i am explaining you that ? You are Polish yourself ...

More like 40+ but in the right moment whe have found the way to break free from the opression, most of the russian people has sufferd alot as well as we did durning the communism time.
But regardless of that, there is no need for playing butcher party with pows etc like chechen "freedom fighters" do.

[Javehn]

agreed

[LordHalbert]

Hey, they VIOLATED the Geneva Convention !!!!

According to the Geneva convention all POWs must get a salary according to their rank.

Thus in theory, Saddam Hussein who is an official POW, should be paid a salary. What he intends to buy with his "salary", I don't know.

[Navy]

I would personally be happy if i got the chance to f*ck up those terrorists.

[Laworkerbee]

It's because of actions like these that the Chechens will never recieve sympathy from me.

These monsters have stated thier rules, which I mean they refuse to play by rules, they should be rounded up and ruthlessly executed to the last man. Maybe Stalin had the right idea with these people...deport thier asses back to Siberia

[Collosus]

It's because of actions like these that the Chechens will never recieve sympathy from me.

Ecxactly!

[Marmot1]

It's because of actions like these that the Chechens will never recieve sympathy from me.

These monsters have stated thier rules, which I mean they refuse to play by rules, they should be rounded up and ruthlessly executed to the last man. Maybe Stalin had the right idea with these people...deport thier asses back to Siberia

And maybe they are doing that because they were deported, as a metod of paying back ??? I dont agree with that method but I can understand if somebody treat enemy exactly the same way as enemy treat him.

My grandfather spend couple of years in russian prison and lost tree fingers and all finger-nails during interrogation by soviet officers, so how do you thing what was first thing that he did after he was released??? he joined anti comunist underground group NSZ and started to kill russians... then he was finaly caught again in 1949 and was sentenced to death but fortunatelly after amnestion was released...

Another example is an old guy from my hunting club... he was in polish Home Army (AK) and fighted with germans whole war (was 2 times wounded and to this day he has german bullet which wasn't removed during war in his stomach) In 1944 when RED ARMY entered Poland he was in group that was send to estabilish contact with RA and to probe their intentions. He was arrested and his fellow soldiers killed on spot, then he was send to ex-german concentration camp in Majdanek near Lublin (Poland) and was informed that his next stop would be Siberia so he escaped with couple of other soldiers at night and immediatelly joined underground since russians looked for him. During one action they atacked prison in Biała city and released fellow AK members everything run smooth since prison guards (poles) were bribed and surrendered ,then russians came and started to shoot at them so this guy who was MG-42 operator opened fire on truck full of RA soldiers, he admited that this one day in this one truck he killed 16, He also said that he never hated russians, to the time when he was arrested and beaten durring iterogation...

You see sometimes you bread your own enemy,by mistreating ppl.

[Collosus]

Marmot, there is nothing wrong with fighting for indepenence but not for behaving like a savage!

[RomanS]

My grandfather spend couple of years in russian prison and lost tree fingers and all finger-nails during interrogation by soviet officers, so how do you thing what was first thing that he did after he was released??? he joined anti comunist underground group NSZ and started to kill russians... then he was finaly caught again in 1949 and was sentenced to death but fortunatelly after amnestion was released...



This won't happen with Chechens. They ain't releasing nobody. No POWS, comercial hostages, priests, construction workers, human rights memmbers, slaves, parents of captured soldiers - nobody.

Plus Marmot, if you closely look on the video, the animals whos doing all the butchering are in their early twenties. No way they were alive when Stalin brought all the Chechens in Siberia. They can't use that excuse when they cut our soldiers heads off. We live in today, and today we are trying to calm them down.

[RomanS]

I am still waiting for an appology ariweiner

[SeanAshi]

Have any of you ever read the comments on those horrible pics on orgish.com Them people are ****ed up.

[Marmot1]

My grandfather spend couple of years in russian prison and lost tree fingers and all finger-nails during interrogation by soviet officers, so how do you thing what was first thing that he did after he was released??? he joined anti comunist underground group NSZ and started to kill russians... then he was finaly caught again in 1949 and was sentenced to death but fortunatelly after amnestion was released...



This won't happen with Chechens. They ain't releasing nobody. No POWS, comercial hostages, priests, construction workers, human rights memmbers, slaves, parents of captured soldiers - nobody.

Plus Marmot, if you closely look on the video, the animals whos doing all the butchering are in their early twenties. No way they were alive when Stalin brought all the Chechens in Siberia. They can't use that excuse when they cut our soldiers heads off. We live in today, and today we are trying to calm them down.

Yes indead they are young but maybe they pay back for behavior of russian soldiers during this war... like for col.Yuri B. behavior. Sorry but if he killed and raped unarmed girl,even if she was a chechen sniper, in which I doubt, then he is exactly the same kind of animal like those youngsters on this film. You russians defend him, (what I can't understand) saying that he did it becouse he was angry, so on the other side somebody can tell that they are doing this to that poor guy on this clip becouse they are engry.If you put measure to chechens put the same to your soldiers. If you expect certain behavior then do the same. You see, like for me there is no diference in POWs, POW is POW and should be treated with respect all the time, if he is war criminalist then there is court to decide.

[RomanS]

My grandfather spend couple of years in russian prison and lost tree fingers and all finger-nails during interrogation by soviet officers, so how do you thing what was first thing that he did after he was released??? he joined anti comunist underground group NSZ and started to kill russians... then he was finaly caught again in 1949 and was sentenced to death but fortunatelly after amnestion was released...



This won't happen with Chechens. They ain't releasing nobody. No POWS, comercial hostages, priests, construction workers, human rights memmbers, slaves, parents of captured soldiers - nobody.

Plus Marmot, if you closely look on the video, the animals whos doing all the butchering are in their early twenties. No way they were alive when Stalin brought all the Chechens in Siberia. They can't use that excuse when they cut our soldiers heads off. We live in today, and today we are trying to calm them down.

Yes indead they are young but maybe they pay back for behavior of russian soldiers during this war... like for col.Yuri B. behavior. Sorry but if he killed and raped unarmed girl,even if she was a chechen sniper, in which I doubt, then he is exactly the same kind of animal like those youngsters on this film. You russians defend him, (what I can't understand) saying that he did it becouse he was angry, so on the other side somebody can tell that they are doing this to that poor guy on this clip becouse they are engry.If you put measure to chechens put the same to your soldiers. If you expect certain behavior then do the same. You see, like for me there is no diference in POWs, POW is POW and should be treated with respect all the time, if he is war criminalist then there is court to decide.

Exactly !

Court is deciding what to do with Budanov. He didn't rape her. Its been proven.

What is a Chechen court? You mean Shura ?

[16 OBr SpN]

Yes indead they are young but maybe they pay back for behavior of russian soldiers during this war... like for col.Yuri B. behavior. Sorry but if he killed and raped unarmed girl,even if she was a chechen sniper, in which I doubt, then he is exactly the same kind of animal like those youngsters on this film. You russians defend him, (what I can't understand) saying that he did it becouse he was angry, so on the other side somebody can tell that they are doing this to that poor guy on this clip becouse they are engry.If you put measure to chechens put the same to your soldiers. If you expect certain behavior then do the same. You see, like for me there is no diference in POWs, POW is POW and should be treated with respect all the time, if he is war criminalist then there is court to decide.

What makes you think that WE Russians defend him? I personally think that if he's proven guilty he should serve his time in jail. I have a daughter too, you know.
I'm telling you one more time, the rape charges have been dropped!

BTW, why do you say you doubt that she was a sniper? I also have a hard time understanding your attampts to explain and find excuses for the chechen executions!!
What do you know about Chechnya in order to "know" what's what out there?

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[Marmot1]

No it was proven that he did not had ****** intercourse with her when she was alive. Literally he raped her when she was dead and since rape can be commited on live person rape charge was droped. Am I wrong?

[16 OBr SpN]

No it was proven that he did not had ****** intercourse with her when she was alive. Literally he raped her when she was dead and since rape can be commited on live person rape charge was droped. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. There was no rape prior, or after death of that girl. It's been proven by the independent team of examinators, hired by the accusing party.

[RomanS]

No it was proven that he did not had ****** intercourse with her when she was alive. Literally he raped her when she was dead and since rape can be commited on live person rape charge was droped. Am I wrong?

Very wrong

[RomanS]

Also Marmot!
You say that Chechens are paying back for what Stalin did to them in 1940's. How much do you know about that? If you do, tell me why Stalin deported almost every Chechen to Siberia? Note he didn't kill them, he transfered them to a new location.

I wonder why? Do you know?
Ask German friends. Who let the Nazis through Kavkaz, and even named a small village of Selmentauzen after a German Nazi.

But this isn't the point. If you say that its a payback for what Stalin did.

THAN- All the jewish people in the world, should just level Germany for what they did to them during Holocaust. Same theory isnt it?

[Marmot1]

Yes indead they are young but maybe they pay back for behavior of russian soldiers during this war... like for col.Yuri B. behavior. Sorry but if he killed and raped unarmed girl,even if she was a chechen sniper, in which I doubt, then he is exactly the same kind of animal like those youngsters on this film. You russians defend him, (what I can't understand) saying that he did it becouse he was angry, so on the other side somebody can tell that they are doing this to that poor guy on this clip becouse they are engry.If you put measure to chechens put the same to your soldiers. If you expect certain behavior then do the same. You see, like for me there is no diference in POWs, POW is POW and should be treated with respect all the time, if he is war criminalist then there is court to decide.

What makes you think that WE Russians defend him? I personally think that if he's proven guilty he should serve his time in jail. I have a daughter too, you know.
I'm telling you one more time, the rape charges have been dropped!

BTW, why do you say you doubt that she was a sniper? I also have a hard time understanding your attampts to explain and find excuses for the chechen executions!!
What do you know about Chechnya in order to "know" what's what out there?

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
Read RussianTexan reply in other post and then you will understand what I had on mind...

Well about chechenya... I have spoken to couple of refuges from that republic who are actually in poland and what they were talking about was horrific... If your army provide peace in chechenya in the same way as it provided in poland after WW2 then I have strong feeling that i should belive to every word that they said.

Also I read all the news from that region that I can, from both sides, and all possible sources since 1 war in chechenya. So now I think that after almost 10y I have my own opinion on this topic... Sorry but sometimes chechen sources were more reliable than russians i.e. chechens claimed shooting down copter - russians the same day stroongly denied and.... in few days admited lose but i.e. due to mechanical malfunction, the same with loses, when chechens claimed killing ca. 80 soldiers russians admited 28 as far as I remember then in few day admited that more were killed but in other place... then when you aded all admited russian loses from folowing week it was... 80. So what, chechens have some future visions on how many russians they would kill in following week? I know that every army must confirm loses and inform families before informing press but why th do such masqarade...

[RomanS]

You still haven't answered my question. If you start touching a subject, lets carry it through.

1. Why Stalin deported the Chechens?

2. Why shouldn't the Israel level Germany for what Germans did 60 some years ago?

[RomanS]

ANd for what my ansestors did to your country in 40's, all I can do is to say I AM SORRY FOR WHAT THEY DID.

I wasn't born than, and I couldnt voice my opinion against my government. Go ahead and cut my throat.

[Wilco]

Let's imagine....

If the world got involved with the Chechnyan conflict?

The US, Polish, German, British, and other large nations sent military equipment and highly trained, elite units. What would happen?

I'd like to hear some of your guys thoughts on this.

[UkrainianAmerican]

Let's imagine....

If the world got involved with the Chechnyan conflict?

The US, Polish, German, British, and other large nations sent military equipment and highly trained, elite units. What would happen?

I'd like to hear some of your guys thoughts on this.
A lot of soldiers....from different lands.......would get their throats slit and die....for nothing...

[Collosus]

Marmot, polisg gypsys who were/are claiming political asylum in uk, are claiming such a things that u would not believe it.
Yet when u see them back in poland they live lika a milioners, my point is maybe u should NOT believe everything u hear.

[16 OBr SpN]

Did you know that there are about 400+ hours of this stuff in the FSB and MVD archives?

And I'm talking about the footage is edited, so there are only contineous executions and death tortures.

Chechen terrorists just released another video where they videotaped a recon mission not far from Moscow. Its amazing that they were able to sneak that far, and record possible targets for the next suicide attack.

Here is a food for thought-

There were hundreds of cases when Chechen terrorists would dress up as Russian OMON, and other Interior groups. They would enter the village in the busses, and kill their own people. Of course they would have Russian Federation patches, and would seem Russian alright wearing ski masks.

16ObR can you also confirm this? Especially Arbi Baraev's people responsible for killing more of their own Chechen natives, than the Russian soldiers.

And I always asked this, and even the administration of Kavkazcenter.
If they are so swift with cameras, why don't they video tape a cleansing operation from far away.
Come on, its not that hard. Before each cleansing the mayer of the village is briefed by MVD and FSB that the cleansing will take place at this time, and so and so.

Its horrible, because the mayor goes and advises the terrorists to leave the village right away. And we also know that mayor is connected, and talks to the terrorists all the time. But our troops have to tell the mayor about the cleansing to be nice, and actually most of the time the mayor himself participates during the cleansing.

There were couple of cases like Novie Aldi near Grozny where our guys went out of control slightly. But I don't want to go into details. Believe me there were plenty of reasons and evidence to kill certain people there.

16OBR, you should know what I'm talking about

1) The cases of chechens wearing our uniforms are VERY often.

2) You're probably talking about the case in Dai-Shatoy in January, 2002? I know what happened there.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[RomanS]

Let's imagine....

If the world got involved with the Chechnyan conflict?

The US, Polish, German, British, and other large nations sent military equipment and highly trained, elite units. What would happen?

I'd like to hear some of your guys thoughts on this.
A lot of soldiers....from different lands.......would get their throats slit and die....for nothing...

Not true!

The war would hault, because Chechens would be very confused on what to do. The kafirs would be everywhere. They would probably explode into chunks.

[16 OBr SpN]

Well about chechenya... I have spoken to couple of refuges from that republic who are actually in poland and what they were talking about was horrific... If your army provide peace in chechenya in the same way as it provided in poland after WW2 then I have strong feeling that i should belive to every word that they said.

Again, you base your accusation based on the WORDS.
But yet, when you're presented with the VIDEOS of chechen executions, you try to find excuses!
I'm telling you, it's not that hard to videotape our "cleansing" operations, where we supposedly kill/rape/loot/rob, etc.
I wonder why there aren't any of those. :roll:

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[RomanS]

2) You're probably talking about the case in Dai-Shatoy in January, 2002? I know what happened there.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

No bro,
I'm talking about Novie Aldi - february 5th 2000. Remember?

Zachistka, shots fired, payback, dead bodies, Politkovskaya goes beserk.

You know bro!


As for Dai-Shatoi January 2002, I think I know what you mean. That place is always been on our **** radar. Especially the road Makajoi-Dai-Shatoi. God knows how many road mines our brothers disarmed there.

[Sierra]

that is disgusting :|

[Marmot1]

You still haven't answered my question. If you start touching a subject, lets carry it through.

1. Why Stalin deported the Chechens?
Becouse they openly opted for cooperation with germans hoping to gain independent state, like ukrainians, belorusians,Latvians,Estonians, and many other and like many russians.


2. Why shouldn't the Israel level Germany for what Germans did 60 some years ago?
And who would pay them for 3 new "Dolphin" class submarines? ;)

[UkrainianAmerican]

You still haven't answered my question. If you start touching a subject, lets carry it through.

1. Why Stalin deported the Chechens?
Becouse they openly opted for cooperation with germans hoping to gain independent state, like ukrainians, belorusians,Latvians,Estonians, and many other and like many russians.


2. Why shouldn't the Israel level Germany for what Germans did 60 some years ago?
And who would pay them for 3 new "Dolphin" class submarines? ;)
So are you saying that if not for the subs, Israel would have every right to make Germany GLOW? :cantbeli:

[RomanS]

You still haven't answered my question. If you start touching a subject, lets carry it through.

1. Why Stalin deported the Chechens?
Becouse they openly opted for cooperation with germans hoping to gain independent state, like ukrainians, belorusians,Latvians,Estonians, and many other and like many russians.


2. Why shouldn't the Israel level Germany for what Germans did 60 some years ago?


So doesnt this counts as treason of entire republic? As I remember history, when the war started all ASSR republics joined together to fight Nazi scum. They could of waited untill the end of the war, end of USSR or end of Nazism.

YOU JUST DON'T STAB YOUR BROTHER IN THE BACK LIKE THAT!

[Herrmannek]

You still haven't answered my question. If you start touching a subject, lets carry it through.

1. Why Stalin deported the Chechens?
Becouse they openly opted for cooperation with germans hoping to gain independent state, like ukrainians, belorusians,Latvians,Estonians, and many other and like many russians.


2. Why shouldn't the Israel level Germany for what Germans did 60 some years ago?
And who would pay them for 3 new "Dolphin" class submarines? ;)
So are you saying that if not for the subs, Israel would have every right to make Germany GLOW? :cantbeli:

He says that Israelis are smart enough to not kill milky cow :)

[UkrainianAmerican]

You still haven't answered my question. If you start touching a subject, lets carry it through.

1. Why Stalin deported the Chechens?
Becouse they openly opted for cooperation with germans hoping to gain independent state, like ukrainians, belorusians,Latvians,Estonians, and many other and like many russians.


2. Why shouldn't the Israel level Germany for what Germans did 60 some years ago?
And who would pay them for 3 new "Dolphin" class submarines? ;)
So are you saying that if not for the subs, Israel would have every right to make Germany GLOW? :cantbeli:

He says that Israelis are smart enough to not kill milky cow :)
You do realise that 3 subs are very insignificant in the big scheme of thigs, ofcourse, right? Right?

[RomanS]

He says that Israelis are smart enough to not kill milky cow :)


Are you Marmot undercover?

I don't understand

[RomanS]

You still haven't answered my question. If you start touching a subject, lets carry it through.

1. Why Stalin deported the Chechens?
Becouse they openly opted for cooperation with germans hoping to gain independent state, like ukrainians, belorusians,Latvians,Estonians, and many other and like many russians.


2. Why shouldn't the Israel level Germany for what Germans did 60 some years ago?
And who would pay them for 3 new "Dolphin" class submarines? ;)
So are you saying that if not for the subs, Israel would have every right to make Germany GLOW? :cantbeli:

He says that Israelis are smart enough to not kill milky cow :)
You do realise that 3 subs are very insignificant in the big scheme of thigs, ofcourse, right? Right?

YES, it is interesting. Sorry jews, our crazy nazis killed millions of your people, so here are 3 subs, go dive and have a good day.

[AK-Lover]

Man those sick ****ers need to die! :-*$ No ****ing POW's just make them dig their own graves and then when their done kick them in and pop some lead in their asses! :P

[Herrmannek]

He says that Israelis are smart enough to not kill milky cow :)


Are you Marmot undercover?

I don't understand

No I'm not :)... And this was meant as jokish explanation why Jews didn't leveled Germany already :)

[AK-Lover]

And you know what! I don't care if I get in **** for that because some of those people the chechen dogs execute are boys just 18 years old! Maybe they want to go to school and get married and have kids and have a future!

[16 OBr SpN]

Sorry but sometimes chechen sources were more reliable than russians i.e. chechens claimed shooting down copter - russians the same day stroongly denied and.... in few days admited lose but i.e. due to mechanical malfunction, the same with loses, when chechens claimed killing ca. 80 soldiers russians admited 28 as far as I remember then in few day admited that more were killed but in other place... then when you aded all admited russian loses from folowing week it was... 80. So what, chechens have some future visions on how many russians they would kill in following week? I know that every army must confirm loses and inform families before informing press but why th do such masqarade...

NO side is reliable when it comes to their own casualties! I can't believe that you can be that naive.
When we annihilated almost 70 of chechens in a mountain ambush, the next day Kavkazcenter put a newsflash, saying that "Russian troops had got into an ambush in Vedeno, in which 30 occupants were destroyed, and 3 mujahedin had become martyrs".
Interestengly, there were only 26 of us total, and we had only one guy wounded. Now, guess how do I know it? ;)

[RomanS]

Man those sick f*** need to die! :-*$ No f*** POW's just make them dig their own graves and then when their done kick them in and pop some lead in their asses! :P

Actually that happened many times to our soldiers.

Chechens would make our captured soldiers dig their own graves. After that they would line up the scared ****less young guys on their knees by the edge of the grave, and insert the knife through the side of throat, and rip it throgh the front in one motion. Another Chechen would kick the still alive blood squirting soldier into the grave. After all of them in it bleeding all over themeselves, making a blood bath Chechens would piss on them.

Note, most of the time they were high on opium mixed with hash. The effect of intoxication made them go beyond satanic style executions. I doubt they remember the history when their pupils are as big as watermelons. The smell of blood turns them on.

[Marmot1]

Well about chechenya... I have spoken to couple of refuges from that republic who are actually in poland and what they were talking about was horrific... If your army provide peace in chechenya in the same way as it provided in poland after WW2 then I have strong feeling that i should belive to every word that they said.

Again, you base your accusation based on the WORDS.
But yet, when you're presented with the VIDEOS of chechen executions, you try to find excuses!
I'm telling you, it's not that hard to videotape our "cleansing" operations, where we supposedly kill/rape/loot/rob, etc.
I wonder why there aren't any of those. :roll:

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
But it is hard to know where you would cleanse today...

No I do not defend ppl who cut throats since for me this is insane.All what I am talking about is that I can understand that chechens are angry... and since there is lot of accusation against russian soldiers and only one trial to this time it looks like somebody is trying to hide something... I don't say that in every case they are guilty but at least that should be check. Also I can't understand why russia do not allow(maybe now they allow but in past they didn't) international organizations to give a third party relation from area. I understand that for military reasons some areas are not accesible but AFAIR when in 1999 2nd war started in chechenya whole border was closed for almost half a year. And no international organisations were allowed to deliver help to refugres in checheny (only in Ingushetya outside chechen borders)

[RomanS]

Sorry but sometimes chechen sources were more reliable than russians i.e. chechens claimed shooting down copter - russians the same day stroongly denied and.... in few days admited lose but i.e. due to mechanical malfunction, the same with loses, when chechens claimed killing ca. 80 soldiers russians admited 28 as far as I remember then in few day admited that more were killed but in other place... then when you aded all admited russian loses from folowing week it was... 80. So what, chechens have some future visions on how many russians they would kill in following week? I know that every army must confirm loses and inform families before informing press but why th do such masqarade...

NO side is reliable when it comes to their own casualties! I can't believe that you can be that naive.
When we annihilated almost 70 of chechens in a mountain ambush, the next day Kavkazcenter put a newsflash, saying that "Russian troops had got into an ambush in Vedeno, in which 30 occupants were destroyed, and 3 mujahedin had become martyrs".
Interestengly, there were only 26 of us total, and we had only one guy wounded. Now, guess how do I know it? ;)

Bro March 2000?

[16 OBr SpN]

But it is hard to know where you would cleanse today...

I bet chechen guerillas know where to film if necessary. Movement of a military column is not hard to trace.



No I do not defend ppl who cut throats since for me this is insane.All what I am talking about is that I can understand that chechens are angry... and since there is lot of accusation against russian soldiers and only one trial to this time it looks like somebody is trying to hide something... I don't say that in every case they are guilty but at least that should be check. Also I can't understand why russia do not allow(maybe now they allow but in past they didn't) international organizations to give a third party relation from area. I understand that for military reasons some areas are not accesible but AFAIR when in 1999 2nd war started in chechenya whole border was closed for almost half a year. And no international organisations were allowed to deliver help to refugres in checheny (only in Ingushetya outside chechen borders)

Chechens "angry"!?
This is not anger! This is called primal savagery!!
Blowing up trains, buildings, and taking hostages is not "anger", it's terrorism!!

As for the international organizations, it's strictly politics, and I don't want to go into that.

[16 OBr SpN]

Bro March 2000?

No it was a year before. But I can't go into details, sorry.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[Marmot1]

Sorry but sometimes chechen sources were more reliable than russians i.e. chechens claimed shooting down copter - russians the same day stroongly denied and.... in few days admited lose but i.e. due to mechanical malfunction, the same with loses, when chechens claimed killing ca. 80 soldiers russians admited 28 as far as I remember then in few day admited that more were killed but in other place... then when you aded all admited russian loses from folowing week it was... 80. So what, chechens have some future visions on how many russians they would kill in following week? I know that every army must confirm loses and inform families before informing press but why th do such masqarade...

NO side is reliable when it comes to their own casualties! I can't believe that you can be that naive.
When we annihilated almost 70 of chechens in a mountain ambush, the next day Kavkazcenter put a newsflash, saying that "Russian troops had got into an ambush in Vedeno, in which 30 occupants were destroyed, and 3 mujahedin had become martyrs".
Interestengly, there were only 26 of us total, and we had only one guy wounded. Now, guess how do I know it? ;)
You had a vision? ;)

No of course neither side is reliable 100% but chechen data acording russian loses was usualy later indirectly confirmed by russian authorities but of course divided into portions i.e instead of 30 claimed by chechens russians claimed 14 and in next 2 days another 16 but in diferent place or time. I remember when there was a chechen video in some TV NEWS showing some ambush or something like that where were many dead soldiers in the background and couple of russian POWs (I think 2 or 3) and chechens claimed large number of killed russians (80 or something like that) Your,russian side confirmed ca. 20 dead and claimed victory .I counted on that video more than 30+ bodies and it looked like chechens were the owners of battlefield. So for me that was fine example of idiotic statement (when enemy have a much better proof that you are lying)

[UkrainianAmerican]

Bro March 2000?

No it was a year before. But I can't go into details, sorry.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
O so u were invlolved in the chechen conflict as well as the afghan conflict?
I dont know anything about Russian age restricitions, but isnt your age (late 30s, early forties i assume) at the time be to old for operations?
(no offense)

[RomanS]

Bro March 2000?

No it was a year before. But I can't go into details, sorry.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
O so u were invlolved in the chechen conflict as well as the afghan conflict?
I dont know anything about Russian age restricitions, but isnt your age (late 30s, early forties i assume) at the time be to old for operations?
(no offense)

GRU bro, GRU

the older - the wiser

[Marmot1]

Bro March 2000?

No it was a year before. But I can't go into details, sorry.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
O so u were invlolved in the chechen conflict as well as the afghan conflict?
I dont know anything about Russian age restricitions, but isnt your age (late 30s, early forties i assume) at the time be to old for operations?
(no offense)

30+ is the best age for SF soldier i.e. almost all GROM operators are over 30 and possible closer to 40. Since young ppl are to impulsive.

[jamesp]

edit: wrong wrong wrong

[16 OBr SpN]

No of course neither side is reliable 100% but chechen data acording russian loses was usualy later indirectly confirmed by russian authorities but of course divided into portions i.e instead of 30 claimed by chechens russians claimed 14 and in next 2 days another 16 but in diferent place or time. I remember when there was a chechen video in some TV NEWS showing some ambush or something like that where were many dead soldiers in the background and couple of russian POWs (I think 2 or 3) and chechens claimed large number of killed russians (80 or something like that) Your,russian side confirmed ca. 20 dead and claimed victory .I counted on that video more than 30+ bodies and it looked like chechens were the owners of battlefield. So for me that was fine example of idiotic statement (when enemy have a much better proof that you are lying)

But I bet if I gave you average numbers of dead scumbags after each of our operations, you wouldn't believe me, would you? ;)

Besdies, don't believe everything on chechen videos when it comes to "post-battle" footage. ;)
Chechens have mastered the art of media/psychological warfare.

[16 OBr SpN]

Bro March 2000?

No it was a year before. But I can't go into details, sorry.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
O so u were invlolved in the chechen conflict as well as the afghan conflict?
I dont know anything about Russian age restricitions, but isnt your age (late 30s, early forties i assume) at the time be to old for operations?
(no offense)

Yes I'm an old fart :D
And I was not a conscript, you know ;)
Actually, almost 30% of SpN GRU officers during the 1st Chechen, were Afghan war veterans.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[Marmot1]

No of course neither side is reliable 100% but chechen data acording russian loses was usualy later indirectly confirmed by russian authorities but of course divided into portions i.e instead of 30 claimed by chechens russians claimed 14 and in next 2 days another 16 but in diferent place or time. I remember when there was a chechen video in some TV NEWS showing some ambush or something like that where were many dead soldiers in the background and couple of russian POWs (I think 2 or 3) and chechens claimed large number of killed russians (80 or something like that) Your,russian side confirmed ca. 20 dead and claimed victory .I counted on that video more than 30+ bodies and it looked like chechens were the owners of battlefield. So for me that was fine example of idiotic statement (when enemy have a much better proof that you are lying)

But I bet if I gave you average numbers of dead scumbags after each of our operations, you wouldn't believe me, would you? ;)

Well you know, I am lawyer so I need a proof... and I prefer solid proof, than witness testimony ;) but I don't say that I don't belive.... :lol:

Besdies, don't believe everything on chechen videos when it comes to "post-battle" footage. ;)
Chechens have mastered the art of media/psychological warfare.
Well, their PR is better than yours... You must admit... and this video was very convincing... that did not looked like fake...

[RomanS]

oh yeah
Chechen GEBELS mister Movladi Udugov. The little dog he is, his reports I've read about first war were hilarious. Literaly, my friend from the MVD agency sent me a document, where Movladi was reporting to his sponsors in Turkey and Saudi on how they murdered more than half of Russian Army.

[RomanS]

Marmot
Could you give us more specific details about the video. Location, killed unit, types of armour, and who was behind it (arabic or natives)

[Marmot1]

Bro March 2000?

No it was a year before. But I can't go into details, sorry.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
O so u were invlolved in the chechen conflict as well as the afghan conflict?
I dont know anything about Russian age restricitions, but isnt your age (late 30s, early forties i assume) at the time be to old for operations?
(no offense)

Yes I'm an old fart :D
And I was not a conscript, you know ;)
Actually, almost 30% of SpN GRU officers during the 1st Chechen, were Afghan war veterans.

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
I know that it might be childlish question but did you killed somebody during your service??? I dont want to go into details but if yes how you fell with that I know that usualy there is state of euphoria at the begining but after adrenaline level goes down ppl usualy have strange feeleng and need something to do to forget that and after a time questions start: who he was, why he was there, did he has a family, could he be my friend in other circumstances etc.... if you don't want to anser at forum please PM me. Confdence guaranted

[RomanS]

I know that it might be childlish question but did you killed somebody during your service??? I dont want to go into details but if yes how you fell with that I know that usualy there is state of euphoria at the begining but after adrenaline level goes down ppl usualy have strange feeleng and need something to do to forget that and after a time questions start: who he was, why he was there, did he has a family, could he be my friend in other circumstances etc.... if you don't want to anser at forum please PM me. Confdence guaranted


Crazy Marmot

[Marmot1]

Marmot
Could you give us more specific details about the video. Location, killed unit, types of armour, and who was behind it (arabic or natives)

Location: Mountains but not high mountains
Time: Winter or so since bodies were on snow
Armour: None
It looked like natives were behind it since there was only a longer caption on battlefield and scene with battlefield in the background where POWs answered questions about name and rank (asked in russian). some ppl were walking on battlefield collecting weapons and ammo moving bodies to search for documents etc. Also AFAIR there was a caption on a bunch of military ID books (red colored) ot was like 3 or 4 years ago..There was a closeup on some dead soldiers faces etc... sorry it was long time ago and I don't remember all details

[Marmot1]

I know that it might be childlish question but did you killed somebody during your service??? I dont want to go into details but if yes how you fell with that I know that usualy there is state of euphoria at the begining but after adrenaline level goes down ppl usualy have strange feeleng and need something to do to forget that and after a time questions start: who he was, why he was there, did he has a family, could he be my friend in other circumstances etc.... if you don't want to anser at forum please PM me. Confdence guaranted


Crazy Marmot

Yeah it might be crazy but I am interested in psychological aspect of that. I have spoken to couple of ppl who killed somebody during fight and almost all of them had simmilar feelings.One guy was executor who during war was responsible for executing of known traitors who cooperated with germans and he said one day he had to kill a guy from his school who was sentenced for death for giving up jewish family to germans just to get their furniture... He feelt bad with that for next couple of years... On the other hand another time he did not executed guy who was sentenced basing on forgred evidence...before execution that guy proved to be innocent and he did not killed him, altrough he had order from his CO... 15 years later that guy helped him to get out of serious trouble... You know that world is weird you never know what happen...

[RomanS]

I know that it might be childlish question but did you killed somebody during your service??? I dont want to go into details but if yes how you fell with that I know that usualy there is state of euphoria at the begining but after adrenaline level goes down ppl usualy have strange feeleng and need something to do to forget that and after a time questions start: who he was, why he was there, did he has a family, could he be my friend in other circumstances etc.... if you don't want to anser at forum please PM me. Confdence guaranted


Crazy Marmot

Yeah it might be crazy but I am interested in psychological aspect of that. I have spoken to couple of ppl who killed somebody during fight and almost all of them had simmilar feelings.

You should never ask questions like this Marmot.

Don't expect 16OBR responding to this. I wouldn't. Those kind of things you're right, too personal. Plus when you join Glav Razved Upravlenie you know where you will be goind, and the things you will be doing.

Please understand that.

[Marmot1]

I know that it might be childlish question but did you killed somebody during your service??? I dont want to go into details but if yes how you fell with that I know that usualy there is state of euphoria at the begining but after adrenaline level goes down ppl usualy have strange feeleng and need something to do to forget that and after a time questions start: who he was, why he was there, did he has a family, could he be my friend in other circumstances etc.... if you don't want to anser at forum please PM me. Confdence guaranted


Crazy Marmot

Yeah it might be crazy but I am interested in psychological aspect of that. I have spoken to couple of ppl who killed somebody during fight and almost all of them had simmilar feelings.

You should never ask questions like this Marmot.

Don't expect 16OBR responding to this. I wouldn't. Those kind of things you're right, too personal. Plus when you join Glav Razved Upravlenie you know where you will be goind, and the things you will be doing.

Please understand that.

Of course I understand if he do not answer.. But I dont want to know any details about any operation, just pure psychological feelengs. But I respect if he don't want to answer...

[RomanS]

Marmot
Could you give us more specific details about the video. Location, killed unit, types of armour, and who was behind it (arabic or natives)

Location: Mountains but not high mountains
Time: Winter or so since bodies were on snow
Armour: None
It looked like natives were behind it since there was only a longer caption on battlefield and scene with battlefield in the background where POWs answered questions about name and rank (asked in russian). some ppl were walking on battlefield collecting weapons and ammo moving bodies to search for documents etc. Also AFAIR there was a caption on a bunch of military ID books (red colored) ot was like 3 or 4 years ago..There was a closeup on some dead soldiers faces etc... sorry it was long time ago and I don't remember all details

If there was no armour than I can only think about a large SF unit or Russian Paratroopers on hill 776.

No way our guys would travel in a large group without any armour support.

So civilians were behind it?

Did you know that more than 70% of ambushes, atacks, and operations on Federal Russian Troops, civilians play a supporting role. Be it scouting, planting road mines, sniping and giving shelter to the full time fighters. Thats right, there is full time fighter mudjahed, and then there are interns/beginers/part-time mostly civilians.

It is easy to check.

During the first war Interior Troops like OMON, ODON, and SOBR would work on their on with the suspected civilians. By that I mean, they didn't need civilians OK to enter the village and search for terrorists. Evertyhing was done in a surprice and rapid deployment.

Antoher ambush near Belgatoi, there goes the village. SOBR moves in, finds many local man with suspicious barrel burns, bruices on their shoulders, very bad shave, and the most of all fresh camos drying in the basements or in the addicts.

Of course there would be excuses like he's a hunter, and needs to support the family with hunting the game, and so on and on. He starts resisting, he's quickly eliminated and his wife runs into the house to grab his Rpk74, and she's too shot on the spot.

Second war is different. Now our guys need premision from
1.FSB
2.MVD
3.UVD (local)
4. Internal CHechen Administration
5.Mayor of the village or town

all that to do a cleansing operation.

Kind of hard to get away with a 10000 dead civilians in one cleansing when the whole Chechen authorities are watching.

ANd if I am correct, every cleansing operation must be recorded on Camcorder by the local administration.

16OBR correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

[EYE SPY]

Its funny how you call the Chechens animals when you do not see what the Russians have done and are doing to the Chechens.

The Russians dont allow foreign news crews to film what they have done.

The news never shows the victims of Russian HE and FAE bombs falling in Grozny's Central Markets.

The Russians are more pragmatic than the Chechens, thats why they are not releasing the same sort of propaganda videos these Chechens are.

If you judge humanity by what you see in these videos, than its proof positive that WAR is inhumane.

[Undo]

No of course neither side is reliable 100% but chechen data acording russian loses was usualy later indirectly confirmed by russian authorities but of course divided into portions i.e instead of 30 claimed by chechens russians claimed 14 and in next 2 days another 16 but in diferent place or time. I remember when there was a chechen video in some TV NEWS showing some ambush or something like that where were many dead soldiers in the background and couple of russian POWs (I think 2 or 3) and chechens claimed large number of killed russians (80 or something like that) Your,russian side confirmed ca. 20 dead and claimed victory .I counted on that video more than 30+ bodies and it looked like chechens were the owners of battlefield. So for me that was fine example of idiotic statement (when enemy have a much better proof that you are lying)



But I bet if I gave you average numbers of dead scumbags after each of our operations, you wouldn't believe me, would you? ;)

Well you know, I am lawyer so I need a proof... and I prefer solid proof, than witness testimony ;) but I don't say that I don't belive.... :lol:

Besdies, don't believe everything on chechen videos when it comes to "post-battle" footage. ;)
Chechens have mastered the art of media/psychological warfare.
Well, their PR is better than yours... You must admit... and this video was very convincing... that did not looked like fake...

Holy cow! You're a lawyer? And you believe statements from kavkazcenter? If you add up the number of Russians they claimed to have killed there wouldn't be a Russian army anymore. In addition, some of thier stories are so outlandish as to be laughable. Chechen sabatuers aboard Kursk? And you think this river of tripe is a reliable source for anything? I pray I will never need your services.

Also, to state that chechens have better PR than Russians is an odd thing, seeing those videos does not make me sympathetic to their cause, and I would like very much to thump anyone who isn't disgusted by them. Generally, yes, they do have a good grasp of media manipulation based on the support they get from the west, but having videos like this all over the internet isn't exactly the smartest move. The Russians are still in the old soviet mindset of, "we don't care what you think" so they haven't exerted any effort to present their case to anyone.

If you think videos are "proof" of something, then why is it that you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of hours of tapes of chechens torturing and killing Russians, but none of the reverse?

In addition, you completely ignore the issue of Col. Budanovsk(sp?) being on trial, while no chechen war criminal has been brought to justice by the "chechen republic". Why is that. Could it be that these are a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs who rejoice at the butchery and are not ruled by law and order, but by some miserable book and insatiable bloodlust?

I understand the desire to see all sides of an argument, but I am not willing to see through the eyes of the devil to do it.

[RomanS]

Its funny how you call the Chechens animals when you do not see what the Russians have done and are doing to the Chechens.

The Russians dont allow foreign news crews to film what they have done.

The news never shows the victims of Russian HE and FAE bombs falling in Grozny's Central Markets.

The Russians are more pragmatic than the Chechens, thats why they are not releasing the same sort of propaganda videos these Chechens are.

If you judge humanity by what you see in these videos, than its proof positive that WAR is inhumane.

Look who's late for dinner,

By the way Eye Spy, the plates are on the kitchen, and the meat is on the skillet. Get it while its hot.

[Undo]

Its funny how you call the Chechens animals when you do not see what the Russians have done and are doing to the Chechens.

The Russians dont allow foreign news crews to film what they have done.

The news never shows the victims of Russian HE and FAE bombs falling in Grozny's Central Markets.

The Russians are more pragmatic than the Chechens, thats why they are not releasing the same sort of propaganda videos these Chechens are.

If you judge humanity by what you see in these videos, than its proof positive that WAR is inhumane.

LOL. Just what this thread needed. Comedy relief.

[SR15]

Russia should burn that place with napalm long time ago. :bash:

[anonymous individual]

ROFL

[Marmot1]

No of course neither side is reliable 100% but chechen data acording russian loses was usualy later indirectly confirmed by russian authorities but of course divided into portions i.e instead of 30 claimed by chechens russians claimed 14 and in next 2 days another 16 but in diferent place or time. I remember when there was a chechen video in some TV NEWS showing some ambush or something like that where were many dead soldiers in the background and couple of russian POWs (I think 2 or 3) and chechens claimed large number of killed russians (80 or something like that) Your,russian side confirmed ca. 20 dead and claimed victory .I counted on that video more than 30+ bodies and it looked like chechens were the owners of battlefield. So for me that was fine example of idiotic statement (when enemy have a much better proof that you are lying)



But I bet if I gave you average numbers of dead scumbags after each of our operations, you wouldn't believe me, would you? ;)

Well you know, I am lawyer so I need a proof... and I prefer solid proof, than witness testimony ;) but I don't say that I don't belive.... :lol:

Besdies, don't believe everything on chechen videos when it comes to "post-battle" footage. ;)
Chechens have mastered the art of media/psychological warfare.
Well, their PR is better than yours... You must admit... and this video was very convincing... that did not looked like fake...

Holy cow! You're a lawyer?
And you believe statements from kavkazcenter? If you add up the number of Russians they claimed to have killed there wouldn't be a Russian army anymore. In addition, some of thier stories are so outlandish as to be laughable. Chechen sabatuers aboard Kursk? And you think this river of tripe is a reliable source for anything? I pray I will never need your services.
And who said I am public advocate ;)
No I do not belive but they are more convincing sometimes than russian if you compare both sides statements about certain event .And I did not visited Kavkazcenr for more than year since now there is lot of wahabi bul****... few years ago there was some interesting info but not now. Yes this claim with Kursk is radiculus and I am not so retard as you thin to belive in it.

Also, to state that chechens have better PR than Russians is an odd thing, seeing those videos does not make me sympathetic to their cause, and I would like very much to thump anyone who isn't disgusted by them. Generally, yes, they do have a good grasp of media manipulation based on the support they get from the west, but having videos like this all over the internet isn't exactly the smartest move. The Russians are still in the old soviet mindset of, "we don't care what you think" so they haven't exerted any effort to present their case to anyone.

Anyway they PR is better especially if you look at image of this war in western media I mean image who is good and who is evil...

If you think videos are "proof" of something, then why is it that you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of hours of tapes of chechens torturing and killing Russians, but none of the reverse?

Well actualy I have seen not more 1,5hour... and i cannot find more also I have seen at lesat 2 reverse videos and at least couple dozens of photos but unfortunatelly I don't have them on my HDD but some photos I linked in one tread.

In addition, you completely ignore the issue of Col. Budanovsk(sp?) being on trial, while no chechen war criminal has been brought to justice by the "chechen republic". Why is that. Could it be that these are a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs who rejoice at the butchery and are not ruled by law and order, but by some miserable book and insatiable bloodlust?

No I do not ignore this issue actualy I pointed it as an only example of trail performed by russians (re read my posts). But also it is hard to understand why some Rusians on this forum defend him so strong even after he was sentenced... (could't you admit that you have a black sheep in your flock?)Ok about chechen republic tell me where this trial should be conducted in cave A or in cave B high in the Argun valley? As for now it is 0,5 to 0 in favor of russians (since there is apelation from that sentence on colonel Yuri B. I presume)

I understand the desire to see all sides of an argument, but I am not willing to see through the eyes of the devil to do it.

W. Churchil said one time that he would ally with Devil if Hell would be at war with Germany after his own press asked him about aliance with Soviet union and Stalin... never say never...

[Undo]

Holy cow! You're a lawyer?
And you believe statements from kavkazcenter? If you add up the number of Russians they claimed to have killed there wouldn't be a Russian army anymore. In addition, some of thier stories are so outlandish as to be laughable. Chechen sabatuers aboard Kursk? And you think this river of tripe is a reliable source for anything? I pray I will never need your services.
And who said I am public advocate ;)
No I do not belive but they are more convincing sometimes than russian if you compare both sides statements about certain event .And I did not visited Kavkazcenr for more than year since now there is lot of wahabi bul****... few years ago there was some interesting info but not now. Yes this claim with Kursk is radiculus and I am not so retard as you thin to belive in it.

I didn't think you believed that, I just meant to say that any source that would report information like that is dubious at best.

Also, to state that chechens have better PR than Russians is an odd thing, seeing those videos does not make me sympathetic to their cause, and I would like very much to thump anyone who isn't disgusted by them. Generally, yes, they do have a good grasp of media manipulation based on the support they get from the west, but having videos like this all over the internet isn't exactly the smartest move. The Russians are still in the old soviet mindset of, "we don't care what you think" so they haven't exerted any effort to present their case to anyone.

Anyway they PR is better especially if you look at image of this war in western media I mean image who is good and who is evil...

But this image is several years old, isn't it. Back in the '90s it was all "chechen freedom fighters", but since 9/11 the truth is out. Unfortunately (depending on your point of view), this makes western media look like idiots. I think this is why we don't hear much about it anymore. Once they started blowing up apartment buildings and showing their true face, it was harder to call them "freedom fighters".

If you think videos are "proof" of something, then why is it that you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of hours of tapes of chechens torturing and killing Russians, but none of the reverse?

Well actualy I have seen not more 1,5hour... and i cannot find more also I have seen at lesat 2 reverse videos and at least couple dozens of photos but unfortunatelly I don't have them on my HDD but some photos I linked in one tread.

So, you have seen 1.5 hours of tapes of chechens murdering captives, but because you have seen 2 videos of undisclosed length you consider the evidence against the Russians? How authentic were those videos? I saw one post that was supposedly Russian soldiers pulling a chechen apart with armor, but it actually was from Lebanon in the 80's.

In addition, you completely ignore the issue of Col. Budanovsk(sp?) being on trial, while no chechen war criminal has been brought to justice by the "chechen republic". Why is that. Could it be that these are a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs who rejoice at the butchery and are not ruled by law and order, but by some miserable book and insatiable bloodlust?

No I do not ignore this issue actualy I pointed it as an only example of trail performed by russians (re read my posts). But also it is hard to understand why some Rusians on this forum defend him so strong even after he was sentenced... (could't you admit that you have a black sheep in your flock?)Ok about chechen republic tell me where this trial should be conducted in cave A or in cave B high in the Argun valley? As for now it is 0,5 to 0 in favor of russians (since there is apelation from that sentence on colonel Yuri B. I presume)

I know you brought it up, but you don't see my point. Russia, being a fairly civilized country with laws and such, has in place a system by which people who commit crimes can be held accountable. These chechens, whom you so ardently defend, had their own government at one point, but they primarily just stood people they didn't like against a wall and shot them in a fashion acceptable under shariah law. To sum up, a civilized country can hold its people accountable, but the chechens and their arab allies never truly aspired to civilization.

I understand the desire to see all sides of an argument, but I am not willing to see through the eyes of the devil to do it.

W. Churchil said one time that he would ally with Devil if Hell would be at war with Germany after his own press asked him about aliance with Soviet union and Stalin... never say never...

There is a difference between acknowledging that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and trying to rationalize murderous barbarism. I am as quick as anyone to extend a hand to someone who is willing to fight my enemies, but, unlike you (not a flame, just a statement) I would never attempt to say that there was any justifiable reason to commit these attrocities. I don't care how "angry" someone is, there is no way in hell that you can justify these acts. Period.



[/quote]

edited to make it pretty.

[RomanS]

BRAVO UNDO!

[AK-Lover]

ONE THING:
http://www.disastershelters.net/images/resources/bomb.jpg
rofl rofl
**** YEAH! rofl rofl

[Russian Texan]

I am lawyer

Marmot, you are 18 year old student...
In case you forgot who you are - look in your profile.

Lawyer,HA :lol:

Anyway, what kind of law do you study?

[wholagun]

man that video -- fvcked me up good. **** my stomach is still fvcked up and its been several hours..

I don't wanna see anything like that ever again, by far the most disgusting thing iv witnessed on TV or otherwise.

I know its reality of war but fvck.
Me and my dumb curosity. :cantbeli:

BTW who is who in the video? Is the victim a Russian soldier?

[George W. Bush]

Yes. He looks like an officer.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

If you think videos are "proof" of something, then why is it that you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of hours of tapes of chechens torturing and killing Russians, but none of the reverse?

Video's are proof of nothing, I can doctor you something up to totally make you believe one way, when its the exact opposite. The Russian is an Officer, and yes thats absolutely sick what they do to the poor dude. You can see the dude in the black mask "flipping" a butterfly knife, unfortuneatly the poor man seen it coming....

I've been watching this post for a bit now, but have decided to stay outta it until now....

The conflict in Chechnya the tensions run quite high, same with the feelings of hatered and anger towards each other. Considering the amount of lives lost/changed/altered because of the conflict, in a way there is so much deep rooted hate and history between the two its been a boiling conflict for along time.

Since there isnt any coverage at all of the conflict in Chechyna the only way for a person for me on this side of the world is to understand the history of it, and I encourage everyone who's been posting here to spend the time to go re-search it.

To address the fact of atrocites, I've seen some reports on both sides being "investigated" for war crimes. Ironically the only war crimes I've seen come out of Chechnya has been "video's" posted of terrorism and executions of Officer's, IED devices exploding then again another exploding when people come to help... :(

The Russian Army is an organized army, therefor it has rules to follow, there is organizations to investigate these claims and report them and punish the people involved. I can tell you that Chechen "Rebels" (I'm using the term "Rebel" losely) showing these types of video's and being associated with terrorist groups like Al Queda, they certainly dont have to worry about organizations breathing down there necks either, because these rebels are not really soldiers, they are terrorists.

Just the way I see it
The bastard

[Groove]

I knew this freakin` video. I still dont understand why russia dont level chechnya and makes a big parking lot down there.

I also cant understand why Poles are pro-chechen Islamics. I think poland need a little more radical Islamiacs to understand the "idea" of Fundamentalistic Islam.

Of course the russian dont take POWs. And if they take some they torture them. Yes this is sick too, but at least they deny it :|

I hope russia can handle this arabic scum soon! im against the crimes on the civilians down there but im for extinction of all this freakin "Allah Is Great" mercenaries !

Groove

[soldierandy]

All Islam is fundamentalist. There is not a muslim in the world that doesn't sympathise with the terrorists and always try to excuse their actions if not supporting them. Muslims are potential terrorists the same way every German was a potential nazi. Some will do it some will don't. The more World War 3 goes on, the more will convert to terrorists. The end will come when we cut off the head, the tentacles and the stings. Islam has to undergo fundamental changes. Women have to be liberated, muslim nations have to become secular and the religion tolerant to other religions. The religion has to stay out of politics and law. Democracy is the only answer.

[Kingpin]

I knew this freakin` video. I still dont understand why russia dont level chechnya and makes a big parking lot down there.

You see how peaceful we are :)


I also cant understand why Poles are pro-chechen Islamics. I think poland need a little more radical Islamiacs to understand the "idea" of Fundamentalistic Islam.

They don't fight in their safe heavens. And Poland one of them.


Of course the russian dont take POWs. And if they take some they torture them. Yes this is sick too, but at least they deny it :|

A little BS here. We're taking prisoners and often release them after some interrogation. Or bringing them to courts. Torturing isn't the part of official policy. So if someone do this - he do this on his own. In general Interrior ministry troops and police plagued by this.


im against the crimes on the civilians down there

Chechens simply very like to complain about everything they dislike. Divide these complains to 10.

[Kingpin]

All Islam is fundamentalist. There is not a muslim in the world that doesn't sympathise with the terrorists and always try to excuse their actions if not supporting them.

Wrong. There 20 millions muslims in Russia. In general Tatars and Caucasus nations. Middle East fundamentalists trying to convert them in their ways but in general they failed (except chechnya)

[soldierandy]

Wrong. There 20 millions muslims in Russia. In general Tatars and Caucasus nations. Middle East fundamentalists trying to convert them in their ways but in general they failed (except chechnya)

So where do the Tatars and other Caucasus nations stand on this? Anyway I am saying on purpose muslim 'people' and not muslim 'nations'. As a matter of fact most muslim states are against the terrorists and support the War on Terror. Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and others too. But the people themselves although won't take any action they sympathise. Especially this seems to be the case in the West where they are well fed, employed and have lots of freedom.

[Marmot1]

I am lawyer

Marmot, you are 18 year old student...
In case you forgot who you are - look in your profile.

Lawyer,HA :lol:

Anyway, what kind of law do you study?

And if I write there that I am a SUPERMAN on SECRET MISSION you would belive me to? ;)

[Kingpin]

And if I write there that I am a SUPERMAN on SECRET MISSION you would belive me to? ;)

I'm for very long time don't believe that anyone who state that he's of female gender is a real female. :) Internet experience :)

[Kingpin]

Wrong. There 20 millions muslims in Russia. In general Tatars and Caucasus nations. Middle East fundamentalists trying to convert them in their ways but in general they failed (except chechnya)

So where do the Tatars and other Caucasus nations stand on this? Anyway I am saying on purpose muslim 'people' and not muslim 'nations'. As a matter of fact most muslim states are against the terrorists and support the War on Terror. Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and others too. But the people themselves although won't take any action they sympathise. Especially this seems to be the case in the West where they are well fed, employed and have lots of freedom.

I told about people not nations

[Marmot1]

Holy cow! You're a lawyer?
And you believe statements from kavkazcenter? If you add up the number of Russians they claimed to have killed there wouldn't be a Russian army anymore. In addition, some of thier stories are so outlandish as to be laughable. Chechen sabatuers aboard Kursk? And you think this river of tripe is a reliable source for anything? I pray I will never need your services.
And who said I am public advocate ;)
No I do not belive but they are more convincing sometimes than russian if you compare both sides statements about certain event .And I did not visited Kavkazcenr for more than year since now there is lot of wahabi bul****... few years ago there was some interesting info but not now. Yes this claim with Kursk is radiculus and I am not so retard as you thin to belive in it.

I didn't think you believed that, I just meant to say that any source that would report information like that is dubious at best.

Also, to state that chechens have better PR than Russians is an odd thing, seeing those videos does not make me sympathetic to their cause, and I would like very much to thump anyone who isn't disgusted by them. Generally, yes, they do have a good grasp of media manipulation based on the support they get from the west, but having videos like this all over the internet isn't exactly the smartest move. The Russians are still in the old soviet mindset of, "we don't care what you think" so they haven't exerted any effort to present their case to anyone.

Anyway they PR is better especially if you look at image of this war in western media I mean image who is good and who is evil...

But this image is several years old, isn't it. Back in the '90s it was all "chechen freedom fighters", but since 9/11 the truth is out. Unfortunately (depending on your point of view), this makes western media look like idiots. I think this is why we don't hear much about it anymore. Once they started blowing up apartment buildings and showing their true face, it was harder to call them "freedom fighters".

AFAIK noone was sentenced to this time for blowing this apartment buildings and unlike other chechens actions, they deny any involvement in it.

If you think videos are "proof" of something, then why is it that you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of hours of tapes of chechens torturing and killing Russians, but none of the reverse?

Well actualy I have seen not more 1,5hour... and i cannot find more also I have seen at lesat 2 reverse videos and at least couple dozens of photos but unfortunatelly I don't have them on my HDD but some photos I linked in one tread.

So, you have seen 1.5 hours of tapes of chechens murdering captives, but because you have seen 2 videos of undisclosed length you consider the evidence against the Russians? How authentic were those videos? I saw one post that was supposedly Russian soldiers pulling a chechen apart with armor, but it actually was from Lebanon in the 80's.

No I have seen 1.5 h of chechen videos and only like 20m are from murdering. Planting IED I do not consider as a war crime as long as it is intended to hit military targets. Don't tell mi that US or Russian or Polish army is not trained to plant them in case of asymetric (guerilla) war.

In addition, you completely ignore the issue of Col. Budanovsk(sp?) being on trial, while no chechen war criminal has been brought to justice by the "chechen republic". Why is that. Could it be that these are a bunch of bloodthirsty thugs who rejoice at the butchery and are not ruled by law and order, but by some miserable book and insatiable bloodlust?

No I do not ignore this issue actualy I pointed it as an only example of trail performed by russians (re read my posts). But also it is hard to understand why some Rusians on this forum defend him so strong even after he was sentenced... (could't you admit that you have a black sheep in your flock?)Ok about chechen republic tell me where this trial should be conducted in cave A or in cave B high in the Argun valley? As for now it is 0,5 to 0 in favor of russians (since there is apelation from that sentence on colonel Yuri B. I presume)

I know you brought it up, but you don't see my point. Russia, being a fairly civilized country with laws and such, has in place a system by which people who commit crimes can be held accountable. These chechens, whom you so ardently defend, had their own government at one point, but they primarily just stood people they didn't like against a wall and shot them in a fashion acceptable under shariah law. To sum up, a civilized country can hold its people accountable, but the chechens and their arab allies never truly aspired to civilization.

If russia is fairly civilized coutry with laws and such tell me why ppl who executed polish POWs in Katyń,Miednoje,Ostaszkov and in several other places are still free? AFAIK 3 or 4 who executed are still alive their names and addresses are known to Polish and Russian, authorities but noone in moscow is willing to put them on trial?(Poland insist on that for last 14 years...)When I last time asked about this on this forum one of you russians said that they deserved for that... Going this way I could say that those murdered russians also deserved fot this, but I don't think so and I am not going to say that.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/katyn.jpg

Hands tied on the back...
http://www.libreopinion.com/aberrazion/katyn7.jpg
Skuls with bullet holes in the back
http://www.libreopinion.com/aberrazion/katyn6.jpg


I understand the desire to see all sides of an argument, but I am not willing to see through the eyes of the devil to do it.

W. Churchil said one time that he would ally with Devil if Hell would be at war with Germany after his own press asked him about aliance with Soviet union and Stalin... never say never...

There is a difference between acknowledging that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," and trying to rationalize murderous barbarism. I am as quick as anyone to extend a hand to someone who is willing to fight my enemies, but, unlike you (not a flame, just a statement) I would never attempt to say that there was any justifiable reason to commit these attrocities. I don't care how "angry" someone is, there is no way in hell that you can justify these acts. Period.

For me it is a crime nothing more nothing less but as I said I can understand some of them... I know how russian army performed in the past and to this time noone convinced me that there is major change in russian army attitude to geneva convention and laws of war it's why I belive in chechen reports about war crimes commited there... And why I do not belive that russian attitude changed??? It's simpe there is no will from the goverment side to change this, there is no will to show world that you punish such behavior.




edited to make it pretty.[/quote]

Damn there is to few colors ;)

[UkrainianAmerican]

ARRGHH I am blind!!!
Have mercy Marmott :D

[Javehn]

Marmot1 , as 16 obr said , they have videotaped they action on TV . I don't know the reasons why they aren't showing the types , but i can't guess from the reasons WE don't show our tapes we videotaped in action . First , it can reveal the operational tactic of the unit , and how they act . Second ,it's for internal use of the unit , and have no place , that someone else would see them .
And for outside reporters , we didn't let them get inside sometimes , because they have very good tendency to get in the middle of the firefight . The situation is tough enough as it is , and no need to be also babysitter for bunch of reporters . It can be the same situation there .
People that gets recorded in the camera , ussualy don't walk around and slaughter people on right and left . Maybe because someone would see this tape later , don't you think ? One of the reasons we started to use cameras , is just to proove false claims like that , and i am shure it is the same in Russian army .

But for someone that said for a pic of a soldier ,that he is coward and shooting granpda in his back . While there is a cameramen that stands half metter from him and taking every soldier move on camera , i really wouldn't expect you to understand that . It takes very smart men to make that kind of observation . You also analised the movie you saw in this way ? Fine lawyer you would be ... ;)

[Groove]

I dont think all muslims want to "rule the world" with their religion. I know enough of them which dont thin so - i hope ;)

Tukey is the best example for a state where democracy and religion is possible without beeing a "Allah`s State". Believe me, if any Radicals would try to get on power ( i mean to call Turkey a Allah State from tomorrow on ) in Turkey the army would make a revolution against them.

Sorry you misunderstood me about the Chechens and torturing. I dont mean you torture all the POWs. Russians dont make POWs too often ( no problem for me). But there are enough Chechens standing in 50 cm high water filled cells in Chechnya...

Greetings Groove

[mack pl]

I dont care who they are-Chechens,Arabs,Marsians-they are ****in bastards.If someone killing POW,he isnt real man,he is ****in animal.I could understud when you killing enemys in battle,but when you killing POW,its ****in ****.If they are muslim fighters,i doubt they will go to haven :| Regards :|

[Undo]

Can't continue with the other color quoting thing. Try this...

AFAIK noone was sentenced to this time for blowing this apartment buildings and unlike other chechens actions, they deny any involvement in it.

So the tapes of Khattab claiming responsibility for this you have not seen? There are some screengrabs on the FSB's website, as well as some more info.

No I have seen 1.5 h of chechen videos and only like 20m are from murdering. Planting IED I do not consider as a war crime as long as it is intended to hit military targets. Don't tell mi that US or Russian or Polish army is not trained to plant them in case of asymetric (guerilla) war.

20 minutes of murder. 20 minutes of murder. 20 minutes.

If russia is fairly civilized coutry with laws and such tell me why ppl who executed polish POWs in Katyń,Miednoje,Ostaszkov and in several other places are still free? AFAIK 3 or 4 who executed are still alive their names and addresses are known to Polish and Russian, authorities but noone in moscow is willing to put them on trial?(Poland insist on that for last 14 years...)When I last time asked about this on this forum one of you russians said that they deserved for that... Going this way I could say that those murdered russians also deserved fot this, but I don't think so and I am not going to say that.

Let's not muddle the issue. I acknowledge that Poland and other countries suffered under communism, as did many Russians. Terrible things were done. I really don't know enough about the Katyn issue to debate it with you. Let's stick to the subject.

For me it is a crime nothing more nothing less but as I said I can understand some of them... I know how russian army performed in the past and to this time noone convinced me that there is major change in russian army attitude to geneva convention and laws of war it's why I belive in chechen reports about war crimes commited there... And why I do not belive that russian attitude changed??? It's simpe there is no will from the goverment side to change this, there is no will to show world that you punish such behavior.

What I am saying is that I cannot understand any of them and I thank the powers that be that my mind is not defective or diseased enough to be able to justify this type of thing. These are murderers. Not soldiers, not "freedom fighters", not "rebels".

Russian attitude about Geneva convention? What about the chechen attitude about the Geneva convention? Again, there is obviously a will to show the world that they will punish such behaviour, you stated yourself that they have one of their own officers on trial. I ask you again, when have the chechens tried those murderers in the tapes? They never will, and don't hand me a load of crap about not having the resources to do it, you know damn well that this is exactly the kind of behaviour they encourage. To the chechens and their arab and muslim friends there is nothing wrong with murdering infidels.

You apply a double standard to the issue, and I can't really see anything positive coming from this debate. I am appalled by what is in the tapes, regardless of context, because what is in the tapes is inhuman. It wouldn't matter to me if it was Russians killing chechens or British or US soldiers killing Iraqis, I would be equally (if not more) appalled. I would not try to justify it, I would demand justice. You, on the other hand, try to say, 'well, the Russians are pretty bad guys, so I can see why the chechens would do this.' I will never understand that, and I am glad that I will never understand it.

[sergey31]

Marmot1......
I wish and pray that someday you visit Chechnya and get captured by some of the Chechen FREEDOM fighters before Russian forces wiped them out, which is nearly completed if not yet.
If you do end up over there somehow by a miracle of Alah, make sure that you travel to the very border by Georgia, that is where they usualy hang out, so they can make a quick get away.

I think they would greatly enjoy some young fresh teenager, A Polish one.

[RomanS]

An apology

From: ariweiner
To: PermskiiOMON
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:41 am
Subject: Re: appology
I am sorry but I refuse to apologize. The Russian officer is not getting his head lobbed off because he is some peaceful civilian talking a walk in Grozny. He is very probably a criminal.

I'll tell you now that I have not seen the video nor do I ever wish to see such videos. But I know this very clearly, at least the Chechens are not slaughtering innocent Russians like the Russians are slaughtering innocent Chechen civilians. Russians are invaders on Chechen soil. Everything they get, they deserve.

[Javehn]

This Ariweiner is probably got raped by Arbi himself , and he is tramatised and having denial reaction .
Hehe . What was your original PM , Permski ?

[RomanS]

Sent :: Message
From: PermskiiOMON
To: ariweiner
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:57 pm
Subject: appology
ariweiner

Please appologize in this forum

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10127

You said :

Filthy Russian savages, you can see why they need to be exterminated from Chechnya.


This is very offensive, since on the video you can clearly see the Chechens cut Russian officer's head off.

I'm sure you didnt know this. But it is not right to say this.

Thank you

[wholagun]

I also cant understand why Poles are pro-chechen Islamics. I think poland need a little more radical Islamiacs to understand the "idea" of Fundamentalistic Islam.


1) are we not pro chechen
2) we know what its like to have your country occupied by foreign powers, we symapthize with those are have thier freedom and sovereignty taken away
3) how much times do ppl say don't generalize, you have one or two Poles on this forum that are argueing for Chechen freedom and all of a sudden all Poles are pro chechen supporters? Next time if you don't have anything better to say, for god sake don't jump on the band wagon and make such dumb comments.


Groove wrote:
I also cant understand why Poles are pro-chechen Islamics. I think poland need a little more radical Islamiacs to understand the "idea" of Fundamentalistic Islam.


They don't fight in their safe heavens. And Poland one of them.

I try and stay out of discussions like this cause they lead no where and are ppl just even up flaming each other, but when I see comments like that I can't keep quite. Just because your mad does not mean you can make up bull**** like that. We are not a safe haven for terrorists, next time don't make such ignorant comments in the heat of passion.
Russian didn't like it when Ichhabe said Russians are the ones responsible for messing up this place before he edited his post. If you guys didn't like it why do it right back at us by saying oh they harbour and supply a safe haven for chechens.?

[gilgoul]

Kavkaz menthality + Islam

Maybe just Islam, or some middle age mentality.
My Dad, 40 years ago, fought the FLN, the 'freedom fighters" of algeria, during 3 years.
Their only fear was to be taken prisoners by thoses monkeys, because they knew what was awaiting them, being slaughtered and guteed like a sheep, then beheaded and for the final touch the cut genitals stuck in the mouth.
That s how he found two of his comrades in arm during the new years night of 1960 outside his outpost, ras bouira, Kabily.

And some pussies would like to see the human right aplied to those "humanS", a bullet in the head is the most human treatment that they deserve.

[Javehn]

Yes , you right . But the combination is too much terrible . Those people are savages . I lived many years in Islamic Republic of USSR that called Azerbajan . They started a war against their naighbour republic of Armenia , and got beaten pretty hard , even when they outnumbered them . They were nice people , but acted like savages , and were too hot blouded . That didn't stoped them from being lowsy soldiers and loose without any problem . When they disconnected themselfes from USSR , they put themselfes in ****y situation , even when they have one of the reachest natural oil reserves on the earth .

I can't tell you what they did to Armenians in my home town . Pretty much the same you see in those movies . If not for their twin and much more succesfull Turkish brothers , they would be long living back in caves .

[alexs]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

[RomanS]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

John Rambo


what the hell is up with childish questions?

[Javehn]

Johny ?? I thought he fought the Russian "Kafirs" in Afganistan ...

[Russian Texan]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

Western instructor at the GRU training facility in the late '80s..... :roll:

[Marmot1]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

Western instructor at the GRU training facility in the late '80s..... :roll:

007 :lol:

[Haiw]

*throws some more wood on the fire*
Kossak?


Aaah crap he wasn't western.. damn. :(

[RomanS]

Thats why I said it was childish!

in the heat of Cold War, in Afghanistan, an American instructor walks into the GRU's base


LOOOOOOOOL

April 1st 2001,

Amir Khattab visited a Russian base in Hankala, Chechnya. Khattab with his right hand Abu Idris, and Abu Valid met with Russian commanders of OGV near Grozny.

Toshev and Kazanzev along with Shabanov took Khattab for a ride in their new Black Shark Helicopters around Zavodskoi district. Khattab personally inspected the new Ka-50s, and joked how stinger will have a hard time getting this bird.

Abu Idris and Abu Valid along with FSB's Alfa participated in a joint exercise near Kurchaloi. The fun day ended with Basaev's soccer match.
FSB-4 Jamaat-3

[Herrmannek]

*throws some more wood on the fire*
Kossak?


Aaah crap he wasn't western.. damn. :(

rofl ... for the Russians he was

[ariweiner]

Russia comes and does this to Chechnya and then expects to be greeted with flowers?

http://chechen.8m.com/photos/capt_russia_chechnya_72k.jpg

[Undo]

Russia comes and does this to Chechnya and then expects to be greeted with flowers?


Yeah, that's how it went down...Russia just came for no reason and bombed Grozny...of course.

Shut up.

Seriously, if you want to discuss the war and its causes, there is a thread for that in GD. What we are talking about here is chechen videos of torturing and murdering POWs. If you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be here. From what you pm'd to Permskii I would have to say that you aren't worth wasting any more time on.

[Herrmannek]

I'm sure Russians could be more selective... :)

[RomanS]

no,
it was a game of darts.

Yeltsin woke up one day, and was bored.

Pavel Grachev brought in a nice silver trade with his favorite Ivan Dolgoruki vodka, slice of lemon, and a dart.

Yeltsin took a shot, bit the lemon and asked.

Pavel, who should we **** up today?

He than threw a dart on the map of the world, and it landed on Chechnya.

[AK-Lover]

rofl rofl
Same with milosevic and sarajevo! rofl rofl

[Marmot1]

no,
it was a game of darts.

Yeltsin woke up one day, and was bored.

Pavel Grachev brought in a nice silver trade with his favorite Ivan Dolgoruki vodka, slice of lemon, and a dart.

Yeltsin took a shot, bit the lemon and asked.

Pavel, who should we f*** up today?

He than threw a dart on the map of the world, and it landed on Chechnya.

Heh now I undertand why you invaded chechenya it is all about yeltsin alcoholism... ;) hopefully he did not hit poland :lol:

[RomanS]

no,
it was a game of darts.

Yeltsin woke up one day, and was bored.

Pavel Grachev brought in a nice silver trade with his favorite Ivan Dolgoruki vodka, slice of lemon, and a dart.

Yeltsin took a shot, bit the lemon and asked.

Pavel, who should we f*** up today?

He than threw a dart on the map of the world, and it landed on Chechnya.

Heh now I undertand why you invaded chechenya it is all about yeltsin alcoholism... ;) hopefully he did not hit poland :lol:

Nuh, he actually enjoyed fresh polish kalbasa. Who would supply him with it, if we would invade Poland. Plus his hand always shoots down, more south.

[UkrainianAmerican]

no,
it was a game of darts.

Yeltsin woke up one day, and was bored.

Pavel Grachev brought in a nice silver trade with his favorite Ivan Dolgoruki vodka, slice of lemon, and a dart.

Yeltsin took a shot, bit the lemon and asked.

Pavel, who should we f*** up today?

He than threw a dart on the map of the world, and it landed on Chechnya.


Heh now I undertand why you invaded chechenya it is all about yeltsin alcoholism... ;) hopefully he did not hit poland :lol:

Nuh, he actually enjoyed fresh polish kalbasa. Who would supply him with it, if we would invade Poland. Plus his hand always shoots down, more south.
Well, it happens to be a fat heavy hand, so lucky poles and swedes :D

[Sayeret]

This shows how sick these Chechen terrorists are. They even taped the murder and torture as though it was some kind of great event. The Chechens should never been given land especially after events like this.

[16 OBr SpN]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

Chuck Norris! :lol:
The next day, he had a tour inside the "Aquarium"!! rofl

[tomcat1974]

should never been given land especially after events like this.

Yes they should get some land.
6 feet under.

I don't understand why the Poles are so STARTED with russians. You can't accuse and entire nation for the bad things done by a very few.
Marmot cut the "soveranity crap"...I live in a country that during its history had to fight quite much to have it's freedom. SOmetimes we won, sometimes we didn't. But for sure as hell we don't accuse the countries that conquer us of something. And for sure I don't held russian responsable for 50 years of comunism. I know that russian people suffered as much(if not to a greater extent) as my country, by the fault a small minority of so called "party leaders".

Also guys don't accuse Islam for that atrocities. Those "individs" had nothing to do with islaam except that they belive they have something. Tha majority of Islamic countries are very decent nations with good people. But every forest has its rotten branches. We should cut the "branches" to keep the forest healthy. The problem is the distorted learning given by some crazy mullah to the young arabs starting for a small age. Israel know this..and they can't find a solution to stop this pseudo-religious brain washing process. Imagine a young "arab" being told from 3 years that Israel is the enemy of Islaam..and he is expected to become a martir for the Islaam. What could you expect from him...For sure not to live along Israel of russian or any other nation.

Hell guys.. suicide is one of the worst sins in Islam .. under no circumstance a muslim shouldn't get its own life or another life. Sharia would cut his muslim head off if the muslim is a proven criminal.

Grozny look like that probable because of a urban combat..house -to- house cleaning. WW2 Stalingrad look a lot worst.

[sergey31]

Hey Tomcat.....
You don't know much about Islam, do you?
First off, Yes to be a TRUE muslim you have to take up The Koran and it states there how and why to kill Jews and Christians.
Those so called peceful Muslims and not true Muslims, and YES to die for Isalm and Alah is the garantee way to heaven and Alah not to mention 70 virgins (I wonder if those Martyr women get 70 guys per night?).
Anyways, you need to research Islam a bit more before you speak up.

[sergey31]

Hey Tomcat.....
You don't know much about Islam, do you?
First off, Yes to be a TRUE muslim you have to take up The Koran and it states there how and why to kill Jews and Christians.
Those so called peceful Muslims and not true Muslims, and YES to die for Isalm and Alah is the garantee way to heaven and Alah not to mention 70 virgins (I wonder if those Martyr women get 70 guys per night?).
Anyways, you need to research Islam a bit more before you speak up.

[tomcat1974]

Hey Tomcat.....
You don't know much about Islam, do you?
First off, Yes to be a TRUE muslim you have to take up The Koran and it states there how and why to kill Jews and Christians.
Those so called peceful Muslims and not true Muslims, and YES to die for Isalm and Alah is the garantee way to heaven and Alah not to mention 70 virgins (I wonder if those Martyr women get 70 guys per night?).
Anyways, you need to research Islam a bit more before you speak up.
That is quite interesting ... It must be the muslim that live here are no longer called muslims.. hmmm..

[alexs]

Jim Shortt.check it.
But hey,what am I knowing? you are the professionals,aren't you?armchair soldiers..

[Javehn]

I checked this Jim Shortt guy . It's said he visited Razan airborn school in 1989 . If i am not mistaken , and 16 obr can say , Razan is the training facility of VDV airborn troops , and have not any connection with GRU .
This guy could get into SPN training center in body bag .

[16 OBr SpN]

Alexs,

There was never a "Jim Shortt" who visited our brigades. The first foreignors who actually visited one of our brigades were South Koreans.
BTW, Ryazan Airborne School is NOT an SpN "training base".



But hey,what am I knowing?

You're right about that. You don't know ****.

[Kingpin]

Alexs,

There was never a "Jim Shortt" who visited our brigades. The first foreignors who actually visited one of our brigades were South Koreans.
BTW, Ryazan Airborne School is NOT an SpN "training base".



But hey,what am I knowing?

You're right about that. You don't know ****.

Err... For what purpose South Koreans were allowed to visit?

[16 OBr SpN]

Alexs,

There was never a "Jim Shortt" who visited our brigades. The first foreignors who actually visited one of our brigades were South Koreans.
BTW, Ryazan Airborne School is NOT an SpN "training base".



But hey,what am I knowing?

You're right about that. You don't know ****.

Err... For what purpose South Koreans were allowed to visit?

I don't know ;)

[Javehn]

Alexs,

There was never a "Jim Shortt" who visited our brigades. The first foreignors who actually visited one of our brigades were South Koreans.
BTW, Ryazan Airborne School is NOT an SpN "training base".



But hey,what am I knowing?

You're right about that. You don't know ****.

Err... For what purpose South Koreans were allowed to visit?

I don't know ;)

Alexs probably would now .. ;) After all , he is the real deal .

[16 OBr SpN]

BTW, by "foreignors" I mean foreignors who are NOT the ones from Warsaw Pact countries.

[Kingpin]

BTW, by "foreignors" I mean foreignors who are NOT the ones from Warsaw Pact countries.

That's pity that Poland folks had visited it. Now they saying that they teached us anything in this domain

[mack pl]

Who said that, Kingpin?

[hist2004]

Jim Shortt is a Security Consultant who did visit the Ryazan Higher Airborne Forces School in 1989. He is British.

Regards & Thanks,
Hist2004

[alexs]

16 OBr SpN: Jim Shortt even trained russian CT teams.I supose your units needed an more in deep training, otherwise your guys would have performed better in real situations(see Moscow hostage incident).I admit I was vague, but the fact is-a british trainer in a soviet base it's something you would know, if you were an officer as you pretend.I wasn't there to give you more details,but neither do you, would you?
Besides I dont need to prove anything,you do.You act like a know-it-all guy.I wouldn't say I'm something I cannot demonstrate and then telling stories of how ****ing great is my army.And who cares if I am the real deal or not?It's not a popularity contest.With or without me the sun's still gonna shine tomorrow.
And about killing mercenaries.In Ulster,none of SAS or other Army units tooked the law in their hands(I'm not talking about RUC E4A).It is called discipline and that's what separate our worlds.
And yeah,some of you are armchair soldiers.(Javehn, I think you're not a fake,cause tanks are not fancy).

[Russian Texan]

16 OBr SpN: Jim Shortt even trained russian CT teams.I supose your units needed an more in deep training, otherwise your guys would have performed better in real situations(see Moscow hostage incident).
Speaking of the ignorant "armchair soldiers":
#1 What does Jim Short's visit to the soviet airborne school back in 1989 has to do with "Nord Ost"?

#2 What does Ryazan' have to do with a CT training? VDV and especially speznaz VDV doesn't rescue hostages....

#3 News-Flash: Storming of "Nord Ost" was the most daring, flawless and successful hostage rescue of the recent times.
46 heavily armed terrorist in a building wired with explosives - dead, storming troops casualties - 0
129 hostages died because of the lack of medical attention afterwards( hardly a responsibility of the CT unit) but 700+ were saved, what percentage is that? And since you are so "knowledgeable"- up to what percentage of the hostage casualties operatrion is still considered a success?

#4 Given on your statements, I take it that you think there is "one big spetznaz" in Russia, right?I admit I was vague,

You admit that you don't know anything and made this post out of your own personal misery and hurt feelings... but the fact is-a british trainer in a soviet base it's something you would know, if you were an officer as you pretend.I wasn't there to give you more details,but neither do you, would you?
Besides I dont need to prove anything,you do.You act like a know-it-all guy.I wouldn't say I'm something I cannot demonstrate and then telling stories of how f*** great is my army.And who cares if I am the real deal or not?It's not a popularity contest.With or without me the sun's still gonna shine tomorrow.
And about killing mercenaries.In Ulster,none of SAS or other Army units tooked the law in their hands(I'm not talking about RUC E4A).It is called discipline and that's what separate our worlds.
And yeah,some of you are armchair soldiers.(Javehn, I think you're not a fake,cause tanks are not fancy).

Well I think that you are jealous, disgruntled, for whatever reason, person...
I am an "armchair soldier" and this comes from the bottom of my heart:
"Дядя, идите нахуй..."

[Undo]

Jim Shortt.check it.
But hey,what am I knowing? you are the professionals,aren't you?armchair soldiers..

Wow. I don't know who you are, and I don't care. You come to this forum and get all aggressive trying to put people in their “place” or something, but all you have done is shown your ignorance. Clearly you knew one thing, that one guy once visited Russia back in ’89. You didn’t even know where he was from, why do you expect every single Russian in the entire country of Russia to know about it?

Then you call everyone armchair soldiers. Good move. In my mind there are only two types of people who call others “armchair soldiers”, liars and REMFs. I don’t know how long you have been reading these boards, but you haven’t been posting long. It may surprise you to learn that there are quite a few veterans here. Let me give you some advice. I don’t think anyone here cares to hear your BS. If you have something to contribute, that’s great. If you have something to prove, drive on.

[RomanS]

16 OBr SpN: Jim Shortt even trained russian CT teams.I supose your units needed an more in deep training, otherwise your guys would have performed better in real situations(see Moscow hostage incident).I admit I was vague, but the fact is-a british trainer in a soviet base it's something you would know, if you were an officer as you pretend.I wasn't there to give you more details,but neither do you, would you?
Besides I dont need to prove anything,you do.You act like a know-it-all guy.I wouldn't say I'm something I cannot demonstrate and then telling stories of how f*** great is my army.And who cares if I am the real deal or not?It's not a popularity contest.With or without me the sun's still gonna shine tomorrow.
And about killing mercenaries.In Ulster,none of SAS or other Army units tooked the law in their hands(I'm not talking about RUC E4A).It is called discipline and that's what separate our worlds.
And yeah,some of you are armchair soldiers.(Javehn, I think you're not a fake,cause tanks are not fancy).

right....


Do you know who started Alfa, Vympel??? And do you know how???

lets hear it

[sergey31]

Hey Tomcat.....
You don't know much about Islam, do you?
First off, Yes to be a TRUE muslim you have to take up The Koran and it states there how and why to kill Jews and Christians.
Those so called peceful Muslims and not true Muslims, and YES to die for Isalm and Alah is the garantee way to heaven and Alah not to mention 70 virgins (I wonder if those Martyr women get 70 guys per night?).
Anyways, you need to research Islam a bit more before you speak up.
That is quite interesting ... It must be the muslim that live here are no longer called muslims.. hmmm..


That is right..... They don't practice Islam on how it's written or meant to be practiced.....
Do you know that Islam is a religion based on conquest and making others (non- muslim) pay taxes to Muslim? This is right way to be and practise Islam...
All others and including so called Muslims who do not follow The Koran are worst off then non- Muslims (Infadels- non believers). That is one of the reasons why Muslims are killing other Muslims.

[Marmot1]

Hey Tomcat.....
You don't know much about Islam, do you?
First off, Yes to be a TRUE muslim you have to take up The Koran and it states there how and why to kill Jews and Christians.
Those so called peceful Muslims and not true Muslims, and YES to die for Isalm and Alah is the garantee way to heaven and Alah not to mention 70 virgins (I wonder if those Martyr women get 70 guys per night?).
Anyways, you need to research Islam a bit more before you speak up.
That is quite interesting ... It must be the muslim that live here are no longer called muslims.. hmmm..


That is right..... They don't practice Islam on how it's written or meant to be practiced.....
Do you know that Islam is a religion based on conquest and making others (non- muslim) pay taxes to Muslim? This is right way to be and practise Islam...
All others and including so called Muslims who do not follow The Koran are worst off then non- Muslims (Infadels- non believers). That is one of the reasons why Muslims are killing other Muslims.

One question sergiey... Did you read Koran??? Not a book about koran/islam but orginal Koran...?

[RomanS]

I dont suppose you can read that crazy looking arabic language can you Marmot?

[Ichhabe]

I dont suppose you can read that crazy looking arabic language can you Marmot?

I have Norwegian edition. :D

[RomanS]

I dont suppose you can read that crazy looking arabic language can you Marmot?

I have Norwegian edition. :D

LOL

who translated?

[Marmot1]

I dont suppose you can read that crazy looking arabic language can you Marmot?

I have Norwegian edition. :D
I have Orginal, French (1848), and polish... polish one translated by polish muslims.

[sergey31]

Yes, I did a study on the religion as a whole and I've read books on it and on Koran and Koran it'self..... Otherwise, I can not make those staments.

I can write my on book about Islam but quite a few people already beat me to it.
The author of the book "Devils Versus" had a ransom of several million dollars on his head for revealing the TRUTH.

[Haiw]

right....


Do you know who started Alfa, Vympel??? And do you know how???

lets hear it
Mr. Kossak, and Delta & SAS aided in the training. Did so.

[Collosus]

yep i want to buy the "SATANIC VERSES" by Salman Rushdie to see why they put the price on his head, what did he say about Islam in that book ?

[RomanS]

Marmot1


polish one translated by polish muslims

rofl

[RomanS]

Marmot
Since you like to defend Chechen freedom fighters, please explain this for starters

Budennovsk 1995

Kizlyar 1996


I'm dying to hear your explanations on why mister Abdalah Shamil Лысый Basaev and Salman Raduev got involved with the above events???

Educate me.

This also counts for ariweiner.

[VISTREL]

Because he is from Poland (it was under Soviet Rule for 50 years) and that's why he is angry at his former boss, and there is a saying "my enemies' enemy is my friend", thats why he is pro-chechen I think...same goes to all the finns and other crap

[sergey31]

yep i want to buy the "SATANIC VERSES" by Salman Rushdie to see why they put the price on his head, what did he say about Islam in that book ?

He quoted the Koran and revealed to most people on what this religion is based upon. No lies, simply the truth and their teachings.

[Collosus]

Because he is from Poland (it was under Soviet Rule for 50 years) and that's why he is angry at his former boss, and there is a saying "my enemies' enemy is my friend", thats why he is pro-chechen I think...same goes to all the finns and other crap

I am from poland and i dont support chechen "freedom fighters", but its good to know that u put everyone to the same basket,next time it might be you my friend.


He quoted the Koran and revealed to most people on what this religion is based upon. No lies, simply the truth and their teachings.

I am gonna order the book from amazone and read it just to have a broader picture on Islam and it's teachings.
Thanks for reply.

[Marmot1]

Marmot
Since you like to defend Chechen freedom fighters, please explain this for starters

Budennovsk 1995

Kizlyar 1996


I'm dying to hear your explanations on why mister Abdalah Shamil Лысый Basaev and Salman Raduev got involved with the above events???

Educate me.

This also counts for ariweiner.

Budennovsk... You know I know so what to explain it was a terrorist action but quite succesfull for chechens, AFAIR it was after budennowsk when you retreated from chechenya,it was a turning point in whole war. At the begining they captured city but then retreated to hospital and took hostages. (All were later released when they returned in busses to chechenya,or am I wrong???) BTW It my be suprising to you but I think that Alfa performed well there and it was not their fault that assault failed, but rather lack of idea what to do in the command center. You know when the civilians start to put their 5 cents into military action **** happens...

Kizlar Quite the same but first one was performed by Basayev and ths one by Raduyev and after retreat from Kizlar **** happened in Pervomaykoye... When your army started AT operation using altillery tanks and gunship hellicopters... Sorry but if you use artilery and you know that there are hostageges in area it don't sounds good to me...

http://www.rai.it/Contents/news/19600/OstaggiCeceniaPervomayskaya_archivio_oriz.jpg
http://www.rai.it/Contents/news/19600/BudyonnovskOspedaleOstaggiCeceniaRussia_arch_oriz.jpg
http://www.islamonline.net/English/Views/2002/10/images/pic13-b.jpg
Shamil Basayev during the Budyonnovsk raid in 1995

[Argo AdAm]

Because he is from Poland (it was under Soviet Rule for 50 years) and that's why he is angry at his former boss, and there is a saying "my enemies' enemy is my friend", thats why he is pro-chechen I think...same goes to all the finns and other crap
:cantbeli:
You are completely wrong, in almost everything you wrote. First of all none of Poles here thinks that Russia is our enemy and we aren't angry at Russians as a people or nation but rather at Russian authorities.
I can say only about my thoughts - I'm not "pro-chechen" or rather not only "pro-chechen" but "pro-nation who was conquered and haven't got their independence, freedom etc. because their homeland is still occupied" That's why I'me pro-Tibet (and hate those who lick Chinese ass") and pro-Kurds. It's historical fact that Chechens had their own country (like other kavkas nations e.g. Georgia, Kirgizya, Uzbekistan) but now they have only their culture and heritage. Why do I think that way? Beacuse we Poles know what is like to be in such situation (Polish history).
Another important thing is I'm not "pro-terrorists" and "pro-muslim style of life" and when I think about Chechens it means I think about Chechen civilians who are treated like... (egzamples on this forum) in their own homeland.
The oher thing is that it was very sad to see how Chechens couldn't create civilized society (IMO typical for islamic people whos minds live in deep middle ages), how they lost their chance after First Chechen War and how their fight has been turned to terrorism...

[mack pl]

I agree with Adam,100%.Good post ;) Pozdro :)

[Herrmannek]

Can't agree more...

[Marmot1]

Because he is from Poland (it was under Soviet Rule for 50 years) and that's why he is angry at his former boss, and there is a saying "my enemies' enemy is my friend", thats why he is pro-chechen I think...same goes to all the finns and other crap
:cantbeli:
You are completely wrong, in almost everything you wrote. First of all none of Poles here thinks that Russia is our enemy and we aren't angry at Russians as a people or nation but rather at Russian authorities.

100% agree I have personally russian friends and I have nothing against them as a ppl

I can say only about my thoughts - I'm not "pro-chechen" or rather not only "pro-chechen" but "pro-nation who was conquered and haven't got their independence, freedom etc. because their homeland is still occupied" That's why I'me pro-Tibet (and hate those who lick Chinese ass") and pro-Kurds. It's historical fact that Chechens had their own country (like other kavkas nations e.g. Georgia, Kirgizya, Uzbekistan) but now they have only their culture and heritage. Why do I think that way? Beacuse we Poles know what is like to be in such situation (Polish history).

Again agree 100% about chechenya, tibet, kurds especialy last two are good examples since there is almost no terrorism in their way for independence.

Another important thing is I'm not "pro-terrorists" and "pro-muslim style of life" and when I think about Chechens it means I think about Chechen civilians who are treated like... (egzamples on this forum) in their own homeland.


90% Agree I am not pro terrorist but I have nothing against muslim style of life as long as they are peacefull, I know some muslims and they are verry nice ppl, very tolerant and polite. If they are toleant and do not interfere in my life I can also leave them alone.And also when I have chechens on mind I think about civilians rather than terorist

The other thing is that it was very sad to see how Chechens couldn't create civilized society (IMO typical for islamic people whos minds live in deep middle ages), how they lost their chance after First Chechen War and how their fight has been turned to terrorism...

Problem is that they did not received any international help and it's why **** happened there, same situation would be in iraq if they do not receive international aid.

[RomanS]

90% Agree I am not pro terrorist but I have nothing against muslim style of life as long as they are peacefull, I know some muslims and they are verry nice ppl, very tolerant and polite. If they are toleant and do not interfere in my life I can also leave them alone.And also when I have chechens on mind I think about civilians rather than terorist

Marmot,

Situation for you.

I personally think about muslims is that they are potential terrorists.
I can't personally finger pick who's a "sleeper", who's a potential threat, or who has nothing to do with terror.

Majority of muslims in this country of USA are simply staying quiet. Understandable, after 9-11 a lot of them didnt want to come out to be targeted by nazis, rednecks, militia types or just a hardcore American patriots.

Hwoever years went by, and I still yet can't find a single Muslim organization that protests against al-queda, jamaat, hamas and other THOUSANDS of terrorist organizations.

If there is a time when some psycho muslim terrorist comes over to a nice muslim family house, and asks for their help. He nicely explains that in the name of Allah, all muslims should rise up against the infidels, and now is the time for your family to be part of Jihad.

So after an hour of brainwashing the muslim family, what would the man do?

I mean every islamic terrorist group organization calls on ALL THE MUSLIMS all over the world, to kill infidels.

I personally don't see "innocent muslims" protest against those messages. Seriously,

if i was a muslim, nice person, living in lets say Chicago area with my family. And the American infidels are giving me a job, salary, and a chance to be what ever I want. And here comes some asswipes crashing into world trade center in the name of my GOD, and call on all of my co-believers to start killing all AMericans in the name of the same god I believe in.

I'm sorry, but I would gather all the muslims from my neighborhood, and protest against ben laden and such cowards. I would want to be heard by the world that " WE ARE MUSLIMS, HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH BEN LADEN"
and actually do something about it.

Example
Stop sending money to Chechen terrorists through banks of America.
Stop sending money to other terrorist groups through donations.
Don't tell me this is not happening by the innocent muslims.

So I can't say that I HATE everysingle muslim in the world.

But I do say that I don't trust them, and never will. Hopefully my kids will, if they will live, and won't get blown up by terrorists...

[UkrainianAmerican]

My local grocery (Nicknamed the "Alqaeda joint" by yours truly) has a donation box for "Martyrs in Palestine" (exact wording)
:slap:

[RomanS]

My local grocery (Nicknamed the "Alqaeda joint" by yours truly) has a donation box for "Martyrs in Palestine" (exact wording)
:slap:

Get the phuck out of here!!!!
Take a photo

[UkrainianAmerican]

My local grocery (Nicknamed the "Alqaeda joint" by yours truly) has a donation box for "Martyrs in Palestine" (exact wording)
:slap:

Get the phuck out of here!!!!
Take a photo
The NYPD stormed them 6 months ago, and the grocery was bought by some indian dudes. woot

[UkrainianAmerican]

O and dont worry, I have a LUKoil gas station near my house too (which lets me buy beer without ID), so theres a balance, hehe.

[RomanS]

should of shot the ****s on the spot
now they are in prision, eating 3 meals a day, watching TV, serfing net, talking to their terrorist buddies, jerking off on UNCOVER MY FACE BOY magazines, and a little % even a penny of our taxes goes so that they can enjoy the American freedom.

[UkrainianAmerican]

should of shot the f*** on the spot
now they are in prision, eating 3 meals a day, watching TV, serfing net, talking to their terrorist buddies, jerking off on UNCOVER MY FACE BOY magazines, and a little % even a penny of our taxes goes so that they can enjoy the American freedom.
Eh, all that happened is the pigs lost their license, and are probably sweeping toilets in my school or something.

[anonymous individual]

90% Agree I am not pro terrorist but I have nothing against muslim style of life as long as they are peacefull, I know some muslims and they are verry nice ppl, very tolerant and polite. If they are toleant and do not interfere in my life I can also leave them alone.And also when I have chechens on mind I think about civilians rather than terorist

Marmot,

Situation for you.

I personally think about muslims is that they are potential terrorists.
I can't personally finger pick who's a "sleeper", who's a potential threat, or who has nothing to do with terror.

Majority of muslims in this country of USA are simply staying quiet. Understandable, after 9-11 a lot of them didnt want to come out to be targeted by nazis, rednecks, militia types or just a hardcore American patriots.

Hwoever years went by, and I still yet can't find a single Muslim organization that protests against al-queda, jamaat, hamas and other THOUSANDS of terrorist organizations.

If there is a time when some psycho muslim terrorist comes over to a nice muslim family house, and asks for their help. He nicely explains that in the name of Allah, all muslims should rise up against the infidels, and now is the time for your family to be part of Jihad.

So after an hour of brainwashing the muslim family, what would the man do?

I mean every islamic terrorist group organization calls on ALL THE MUSLIMS all over the world, to kill infidels.

I personally don't see "innocent muslims" protest against those messages. Seriously,

if i was a muslim, nice person, living in lets say Chicago area with my family. And the American infidels are giving me a job, salary, and a chance to be what ever I want. And here comes some asswipes crashing into world trade center in the name of my GOD, and call on all of my co-believers to start killing all AMericans in the name of the same god I believe in.

I'm sorry, but I would gather all the muslims from my neighborhood, and protest against ben laden and such cowards. I would want to be heard by the world that " WE ARE MUSLIMS, HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH BEN LADEN"
and actually do something about it.

Example
Stop sending money to Chechen terrorists through banks of America.
Stop sending money to other terrorist groups through donations.
Don't tell me this is not happening by the innocent muslims.

So I can't say that I HATE everysingle muslim in the world.

But I do say that I don't trust them, and never will. Hopefully my kids will, if they will live, and won't get blown up by terrorists...

I express the same opinion you have in mind. I sometimes do wonder if any of my Middle East friends is a potential terrorist. As much as I don't want it this way, I cannot help to think about this. This makes me sad. :(

[Marmot1]

90% Agree I am not pro terrorist but I have nothing against muslim style of life as long as they are peacefull, I know some muslims and they are verry nice ppl, very tolerant and polite. If they are toleant and do not interfere in my life I can also leave them alone.And also when I have chechens on mind I think about civilians rather than terorist

Marmot,

Situation for you.

I personally think about muslims is that they are potential terrorists.
I can't personally finger pick who's a "sleeper", who's a potential threat, or who has nothing to do with terror.

Majority of muslims in this country of USA are simply staying quiet. Understandable, after 9-11 a lot of them didnt want to come out to be targeted by nazis, rednecks, militia types or just a hardcore American patriots.

Hwoever years went by, and I still yet can't find a single Muslim organization that protests against al-queda, jamaat, hamas and other THOUSANDS of terrorist organizations.

If there is a time when some psycho muslim terrorist comes over to a nice muslim family house, and asks for their help. He nicely explains that in the name of Allah, all muslims should rise up against the infidels, and now is the time for your family to be part of Jihad.

So after an hour of brainwashing the muslim family, what would the man do?

I mean every islamic terrorist group organization calls on ALL THE MUSLIMS all over the world, to kill infidels.

I personally don't see "innocent muslims" protest against those messages. Seriously,

if i was a muslim, nice person, living in lets say Chicago area with my family. And the American infidels are giving me a job, salary, and a chance to be what ever I want. And here comes some asswipes crashing into world trade center in the name of my GOD, and call on all of my co-believers to start killing all AMericans in the name of the same god I believe in.

I'm sorry, but I would gather all the muslims from my neighborhood, and protest against ben laden and such cowards. I would want to be heard by the world that " WE ARE MUSLIMS, HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH BEN LADEN"
and actually do something about it.

Example
Stop sending money to Chechen terrorists through banks of America.
Stop sending money to other terrorist groups through donations.
Don't tell me this is not happening by the innocent muslims.

So I can't say that I HATE everysingle muslim in the world.

But I do say that I don't trust them, and never will. Hopefully my kids will, if they will live, and won't get blown up by terrorists...

Hint tu you: head of Polish muslims next day after 9.11 protested against terrorism and declared that it is against islam and against humanity to do such an attack. On 1 october 2001 I was at the opening of new arab reataurant in Warsaw, Poland and at the begining owner of that restaurant asked everybody to pray for the innocent victims of ppl who use Islam as a tool to commit crimes(owner was from Libya and there was Libyan Ambasador there).What was interesting whole opening was heavily guarded by police (there were many Ambasadors and other CD members) and at one moment there were some homeless ppl searching nearby trash, so owner of that restaurant asked police to let them in and invited them to sit inside, gave them food and drink, then prepared packages for them with food when they were leaving.Does bloodthirsty people act in such way??? especially when those ppl were infidels??

There was no media, no reporters there, and only small group of non muslims ("infidels"includingme, and maybe 5 other guys)


On the same basis as you think all mussilims are potential terrorists I can say all russian are posibble war criminals and only wait for occasion to commit genocide... same type of bull****. I think that you know **** about muslims and don't know personally any of them and thus you are so xenophobic...

[16 OBr SpN]

16 OBr SpN: Jim Shortt even trained russian CT teams.

I wonder, what would those CT teams be. :roll:
Do you have a slightest idea WHAT units were/are CT units in Russia, and which organization they are/were under?? RVVDKU had nothing to do with them.


I supose your units needed an more in deep training, otherwise your guys would have performed better in real situations(see Moscow hostage incident).
The if we did a bad job in Nord-Ost, then I guess your "Jim Shortt" sucks! :)
Anyways, when someone judges the results of any operation on "what ifs", "they could've done better", etc., they show their ignorance to say the least. What gives you the right to judge what our guys did in Nord-Ost?


I admit I was vague, but the fact is-a british trainer in a soviet base it's something you would know, if you were an officer as you pretend.I wasn't there to give you more details,but neither do you, would you?
RVVDKU is NOT and never WAS a training base for Soviet/Russian SpN, and CT units! What else is there to discuss? RVVDKU is Ryazan Airborne School, which trains VDV. If you came there during Soviet Union, you could have gotten inside as well. It's not a location which is covered by Soviet/Russian OpSec regulations. 9th Co. (tactical reconnaissance faculty), is indeed "in" RVVDKU, but physically located in a different place.


Besides I dont need to prove anything,you do.
What makes you think that I HAVE to prove anything? :lol:


I wouldn't say I'm something I cannot demonstrate and then telling stories of how f*** great is my army.
I will continue to tell "stories" of how our army was/is great, because my army service is one of the sacred moments in my life. It was the army which made me the man I am, and I'm proud of it. The very same army had taught me not to break from inside when I saw my friends dying. if an army can teach you that, then it is a great army. I met my future wife while was in a hospital after a wound which I got in Afghanistan, therefore I can say that the army helped me find a life companion.
If you think I shouldn't be proud of our army, and shouldn't say how great it is, you're ****ing wrong pal!
Ask ANYONE who served, they'll tell you the same thing.


And about killing mercenaries.In Ulster,none of SAS or other Army units tooked the law in their hands(I'm not talking about RUC E4A).It is called discipline and that's what separate our worlds.
That's none of your ****ing business! And it's definitely not up to you to discuss our discipline, and rules!!


Javehn, I think you're not a fake,cause tanks are not fancy.
What is "fancy"?
In army/navy/air-force, EVERY position is "fancy", because those guys are serving their country, and sacrificed some nice things of civilian life for a right to wear a uniform.
In Javehn's case, he's a tanker, who in fact always risks his life every time they're out on the mission. Is he "fancy"? Definitely, and he will always have my respect!
Were those 18-19 year olds who were storming Grozny "fancy"?? Definitely!! Because they had balls to go in and fight, although many of them learned how to shoot only when the fighting started!! They had balls to hold out in buildings for days, while being hungry, freezing, seeing bodies of their comrades rotting/freezing/burning, out on the streets of Grozny, and being constantly attacked by the surrounding enemy forces!! I couldn't even look in their eyes, because we, spetsnaz, are NOTHING without them!! Do you think we won the war in Chechnya? No! It was those youngsters from the Infantry, VDV, Marines, Armored units, Air-force, who won it!!
The Marines which took the Palace, the paratroopers which never left that "Hill 776.0", and died fighting till the last breath!!Those guys will always have my utmost respect!! Because of those guys, I WILL ALWAYS say how GREAT our army is!!!

It's not what branch or what unit we serve in which makes us "fancy", it's what's inside of each and everyone of us!

But something inside of me tells me you don't know what respect is. You have this deserter/rat thinking that I can smell by reading your post!!

[Haiw]

Nice post...makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :D

[UkrainianAmerican]

BRAVO! woot

[Marmot1]

16 OBr SpN: Jim Shortt even trained russian CT teams.

I wonder, what would those CT teams be. :roll:
Do you have a slightest idea WHAT units were/are CT units in Russia, and which organization they are/were under?? RVVDKU had nothing to do with them.


I supose your units needed an more in deep training, otherwise your guys would have performed better in real situations(see Moscow hostage incident).
The if we did a bad job in Nord-Ost, then I guess your "Jim Shortt" sucks! :)
Anyways, when someone judges the results of any operation on "what ifs", "they could've done better", etc., they show their ignorance to say the least. What gives you the right to judge what our guys did in Nord-Ost?


I admit I was vague, but the fact is-a british trainer in a soviet base it's something you would know, if you were an officer as you pretend.I wasn't there to give you more details,but neither do you, would you?
RVVDKU is NOT and never WAS a training base for Soviet/Russian SpN, and CT units! What else is there to discuss? RVVDKU is Ryazan Airborne School, which trains VDV. If you came there during Soviet Union, you could have gotten inside as well. It's not a location which is covered by Soviet/Russian OpSec regulations. 9th Co. (tactical reconnaissance faculty), is indeed "in" RVVDKU, but physically located in a different place.


Besides I dont need to prove anything,you do.
What makes you think that I HAVE to prove anything? :lol:


I wouldn't say I'm something I cannot demonstrate and then telling stories of how f*** great is my army.
I will continue to tell "stories" of how our army was/is great, because my army service is one of the sacred moments in my life. It was the army which made me the man I am, and I'm proud of it. The very same army had taught me not to break from inside when I saw my friends dying. if an army can teach you that, then it is a great army. I met my future wife while was in a hospital after a wound which I got in Afghanistan, therefore I can say that the army helped me find a life companion.
If you think I shouldn't be proud of our army, and shouldn't say how great it is, you're f*** wrong pal!
Ask ANYONE who served, they'll tell you the same thing.


And about killing mercenaries.In Ulster,none of SAS or other Army units tooked the law in their hands(I'm not talking about RUC E4A).It is called discipline and that's what separate our worlds.
That's none of your f*** business! And it's definitely not up to you to discuss our discipline, and rules!!


Javehn, I think you're not a fake,cause tanks are not fancy.
What is "fancy"?
In army/navy/air-force, EVERY position is "fancy", because those guys are serving their country, and sacrificed some nice things of civilian life for a right to wear a uniform.
In Javehn's case, he's a tanker, who in fact always risks his life every time they're out on the mission. Is he "fancy"? Definitely, and he will always have my respect!
Were those 18-19 year olds who were storming Grozny "fancy"?? Definitely!! Because they had balls to go in and fight, although many of them learned how to shoot only when the fighting started!! They had balls to hold out in buildings for days, while being hungry, freezing, seeing bodies of their comrades rotting/freezing/burning, out on the streets of Grozny, and being constantly attacked by the surrounding enemy forces!! I couldn't even look in their eyes, because we, spetsnaz, are NOTHING without them!! Do you think we won the war in Chechnya? No! It was those youngsters from the Infantry, VDV, Marines, Armored units, Air-force, who won it!!
The Marines which took the Palace, the paratroopers which never left that "Hill 776.0", and died fighting till the last breath!!Those guys will always have my utmost respect!! Because of those guys, I WILL ALWAYS say how GREAT our army is!!!

It's not what branch or what unit we serve in which makes us "fancy", it's what's inside of each and everyone of us!

But something inside of me tells me you don't know what respect is. You have this deserter/rat thinking that I can smell by reading your post!!
woot

[anonymous individual]

pwned

[RomanS]

16 OBR
Братан!
Аплодисменты!

и бутылка с меня!

[sergey31]

90% Agree I am not pro terrorist but I have nothing against muslim style of life as long as they are peacefull, I know some muslims and they are verry nice ppl, very tolerant and polite. If they are toleant and do not interfere in my life I can also leave them alone.And also when I have chechens on mind I think about civilians rather than terorist

Marmot,

Situation for you.

I personally think about muslims is that they are potential terrorists.
I can't personally finger pick who's a "sleeper", who's a potential threat, or who has nothing to do with terror.

Majority of muslims in this country of USA are simply staying quiet. Understandable, after 9-11 a lot of them didnt want to come out to be targeted by nazis, rednecks, militia types or just a hardcore American patriots.

Hwoever years went by, and I still yet can't find a single Muslim organization that protests against al-queda, jamaat, hamas and other THOUSANDS of terrorist organizations.

If there is a time when some psycho muslim terrorist comes over to a nice muslim family house, and asks for their help. He nicely explains that in the name of Allah, all muslims should rise up against the infidels, and now is the time for your family to be part of Jihad.

So after an hour of brainwashing the muslim family, what would the man do?

I mean every islamic terrorist group organization calls on ALL THE MUSLIMS all over the world, to kill infidels.

I personally don't see "innocent muslims" protest against those messages. Seriously,

if i was a muslim, nice person, living in lets say Chicago area with my family. And the American infidels are giving me a job, salary, and a chance to be what ever I want. And here comes some asswipes crashing into world trade center in the name of my GOD, and call on all of my co-believers to start killing all AMericans in the name of the same god I believe in.

I'm sorry, but I would gather all the muslims from my neighborhood, and protest against ben laden and such cowards. I would want to be heard by the world that " WE ARE MUSLIMS, HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH BEN LADEN"
and actually do something about it.

Example
Stop sending money to Chechen terrorists through banks of America.
Stop sending money to other terrorist groups through donations.
Don't tell me this is not happening by the innocent muslims.

So I can't say that I HATE everysingle muslim in the world.

But I do say that I don't trust them, and never will. Hopefully my kids will, if they will live, and won't get blown up by terrorists...

Hint tu you: head of Polish muslims next day after 9.11 protested against terrorism and declared that it is against islam and against humanity to do such an attack. On 1 october 2001 I was at the opening of new arab reataurant in Warsaw, Poland and at the begining owner of that restaurant asked everybody to pray for the innocent victims of ppl who use Islam as a tool to commit crimes(owner was from Libya and there was Libyan Ambasador there).What was interesting whole opening was heavily guarded by police (there were many Ambasadors and other CD members) and at one moment there were some homeless ppl searching nearby trash, so owner of that restaurant asked police to let them in and invited them to sit inside, gave them food and drink, then prepared packages for them with food when they were leaving.Does bloodthirsty people act in such way??? especially when those ppl were infidels??

There was no media, no reporters there, and only small group of non muslims ("infidels"includingme, and maybe 5 other guys)


On the same basis as you think all mussilims are potential terrorists I can say all russian are posibble war criminals and only wait for occasion to commit genocide... same type of bull****. I think that you know **** about muslims and don't know personally any of them and thus you are so xenophobic...


Traditional Muslims are probably the friendliest of all with great hospitabilty.... BUT THOSE same people turn-out to be the blodiest throat cutting sevages out there.
They are friendly, sure they are --- I've heard and read quite a few stories on how that changes very quick when religion comes to play and sword of Allah breack out.
Have you read a book by A. Collins "My Jihad". He was very surprised on how friendly Chechen people were and he had never seen that before, but what else he saw and what kind of a low-life he is himself is a totally diferent storie.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Good post OBr. woot

[Kingpin]

****'em

woot

Excellent said

[Javehn]

С меня 3 бутылки .

And something to add to 16 obr spn post :


If you think I shouldn't be proud of our army, and shouldn't say how great it is, you're f*** wrong pal!
Ask ANYONE who served, they'll tell you the same thing.

1000000% right . I was only tanker , but i did things i couldn't imagine i do , or pass (as my friend Bigisraeli that posts here , we did our service together , and he is the one pointed me to this forum) . Things you most certainly coulnd't imagine in your life . Things you wouldn't know in your life , like knowing you just saved a lifes of perhaps 10 , perhaps 20 or more people back in your country from spending their last moment on the plannet, inside burning bus .

Things that did a men out of yound consript , things that made him broke , things that made him happy , combat friends you can't find in any other place in the world . My job was last thing in the plannet that you can call fancy , and i not regret for milisecond doing it .

But next to 16 obr spn i am an armchair soldier . I am an armchair soldier next to the young man that fought and storm the Grozny . The young soldiers who kept 3 days , surrounded by 4 direction by Chechens , getting killed from moment to moment . Soldiers that were thrown into the battle without their knowledge and exceptance , who fought bravely and didn't surrender . Soldiers , that had to see they fellow soldier, whom they meet only few days ago when a battle groops were done , they saw them going to next world infront of their eyes . Luckily , i don't know what is to hold good friend in your arms , and see them go away while you hold them . They did so .

They did not thought they look fancy or have fancy weapons .

When you wrote your post , you denied the right . Right to stand on the ground where the simplest army soldier stands . The same goes for a forum . You lost your right to do so . And you didn't had the right from begining to make those remark to the combatant .

And on practical level : Before you call bull**** on someone , at list bother to read all of his posts .

[Ichhabe]

16 OBr SpN: Jim Shortt even trained russian CT teams.

I wonder, what would those CT teams be. :roll:
Do you have a slightest idea WHAT units were/are CT units in Russia, and which organization they are/were under?? RVVDKU had nothing to do with them.


I supose your units needed an more in deep training, otherwise your guys would have performed better in real situations(see Moscow hostage incident).
The if we did a bad job in Nord-Ost, then I guess your "Jim Shortt" sucks! :)
Anyways, when someone judges the results of any operation on "what ifs", "they could've done better", etc., they show their ignorance to say the least. What gives you the right to judge what our guys did in Nord-Ost?


I admit I was vague, but the fact is-a british trainer in a soviet base it's something you would know, if you were an officer as you pretend.I wasn't there to give you more details,but neither do you, would you?
RVVDKU is NOT and never WAS a training base for Soviet/Russian SpN, and CT units! What else is there to discuss? RVVDKU is Ryazan Airborne School, which trains VDV. If you came there during Soviet Union, you could have gotten inside as well. It's not a location which is covered by Soviet/Russian OpSec regulations. 9th Co. (tactical reconnaissance faculty), is indeed "in" RVVDKU, but physically located in a different place.


Besides I dont need to prove anything,you do.
What makes you think that I HAVE to prove anything? :lol:


I wouldn't say I'm something I cannot demonstrate and then telling stories of how f*** great is my army.
I will continue to tell "stories" of how our army was/is great, because my army service is one of the sacred moments in my life. It was the army which made me the man I am, and I'm proud of it. The very same army had taught me not to break from inside when I saw my friends dying. if an army can teach you that, then it is a great army. I met my future wife while was in a hospital after a wound which I got in Afghanistan, therefore I can say that the army helped me find a life companion.
If you think I shouldn't be proud of our army, and shouldn't say how great it is, you're f*** wrong pal!
Ask ANYONE who served, they'll tell you the same thing.


And about killing mercenaries.In Ulster,none of SAS or other Army units tooked the law in their hands(I'm not talking about RUC E4A).It is called discipline and that's what separate our worlds.
That's none of your f*** business! And it's definitely not up to you to discuss our discipline, and rules!!


Javehn, I think you're not a fake,cause tanks are not fancy.
What is "fancy"?
In army/navy/air-force, EVERY position is "fancy", because those guys are serving their country, and sacrificed some nice things of civilian life for a right to wear a uniform.
In Javehn's case, he's a tanker, who in fact always risks his life every time they're out on the mission. Is he "fancy"? Definitely, and he will always have my respect!
Were those 18-19 year olds who were storming Grozny "fancy"?? Definitely!! Because they had balls to go in and fight, although many of them learned how to shoot only when the fighting started!! They had balls to hold out in buildings for days, while being hungry, freezing, seeing bodies of their comrades rotting/freezing/burning, out on the streets of Grozny, and being constantly attacked by the surrounding enemy forces!! I couldn't even look in their eyes, because we, spetsnaz, are NOTHING without them!! Do you think we won the war in Chechnya? No! It was those youngsters from the Infantry, VDV, Marines, Armored units, Air-force, who won it!!
The Marines which took the Palace, the paratroopers which never left that "Hill 776.0", and died fighting till the last breath!!Those guys will always have my utmost respect!! Because of those guys, I WILL ALWAYS say how GREAT our army is!!!

It's not what branch or what unit we serve in which makes us "fancy", it's what's inside of each and everyone of us!

But something inside of me tells me you don't know what respect is. You have this deserter/rat thinking that I can smell by reading your post!!

This is the best reply EVER!!!!!!!!

[Groove]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

Chuck Norris! :lol:
The next day, he had a tour inside the "Aquarium"!! rofl

16 OBr SpN - Dude nice to hear you use this "for real"!

a very interesting method the russian invented ;)

Do you have some internal "records" how long some1 could resist mentally ? I heard some hours are the record ;)

Greetings

Groove

[UkrainianAmerican]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

Chuck Norris! :lol:
The next day, he had a tour inside the "Aquarium"!! rofl

16 OBr SpN - Dude nice to hear you use this "for real"!

a very interesting method the russian invented ;)

Do you have some internal "records" how long some1 could resist mentally ? I heard some hours are the record ;)

Greetings

Groove
What is the acquarium?
Does it involve water? Sharks?

[16 OBr SpN]

16 OBr SpN,if you were in Spetznaz tell me who was the western instructor who visited one of your training bases in late 8o's?the words spread so you should know what I'm talkin about.

Chuck Norris! :lol:
The next day, he had a tour inside the "Aquarium"!! rofl

16 OBr SpN - Dude nice to hear you use this "for real"!

a very interesting method the russian invented ;)

Do you have some internal "records" how long some1 could resist mentally ? I heard some hours are the record ;)

Greetings

Groove
What is the acquarium?
Does it involve water? Sharks?

That place is filled with "sharks"!!
Comparing to them, I'm DEFINITELY a little fish ;)

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[Marmot1]

I am little fish comparing to them you may be little biger predatorian fish :lol:

[16 OBr SpN]

I am little fish comparing to them you may be little biger predatorian fish :lol:

OK, I admit I might have some teeth, but those "sharks" will swallow me without even noticing it! ;) :lol:

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[alexs]

Right,16 OBr SpN.
I enjoyed your reply.Quite an emotionally one.Youre quite touchy for a Spetz.Please dont loose your temper(if you accept an advice from a "deserter/rat").Youre a good judge of characters.If you would have said desert/rat...
Ive read all of your posts( 342 ,0.20% of total / 2.76 posts per day,youre a businessman with a lot of free time, but its not my problem.And I bet your posts can be found on other forums, too.No time to check it anyway.).
First, I must admit youre smart.No argue.You do a lot of psyops on this forum and youre quite good at it.Sometimes youre open minded.I even agree with you on certain points.
I guess you could have been in a para unit and fought in Grozny.But youre not an ex-Spetz.
You see, when someone tells the truth,he uses memory.When he lies-imagination or he repeats listened stories.The memory- from the past,the imagination- from the present.First is made of details,conversations,feelings.The lies are created in an empty senseless space.In Russia they dont teach you how to lie at RI courses?
And you dont know **** about operating in wooden areas."Usually, firefights in the forests are made on 150-200 meter distance, among dense trees."yeah,right.
hist2004 could easily pretend hes a spetz.He knows more than you about it.

Second,even Sas had failed sometimes (the raid vs. a Sue airfield,B20,Bosnia..) but they admit they were wrong and learn from it.It is called professionalism.

Third,Jim Shortt trained Alpha, Sokol, Berkut, Grad, Titan, OMON, SOBR.If you think an ex-sterling serviceman sucks,it tells a lot.

So guys,if you like to hear lies,suite yourselves.

[UkrainianAmerican]

I am little fish comparing to them you may be little biger predatorian fish :lol:

OK, I admit I might have some teeth, but those "sharks" will swallow me without even noticing it! ;) :lol:

Regards,
16 OBr SpN
I am a little dense, but um do "sharks" mean VERY big people?

[RomanS]

Right,16 OBr SpN.
I enjoyed your reply.Quite an emotionally one.Youre quite touchy for a Spetz.Please dont loose your temper(if you accept an advice from a "deserter/rat").Youre a good judge of characters.If you would have said desert/rat...
Ive read all of your posts( 342 ,0.20% of total / 2.76 posts per day,youre a businessman with a lot of free time, but its not my problem.And I bet your posts can be found on other forums, too.No time to check it anyway.).
First, I must admit youre smart.No argue.You do a lot of psyops on this forum and youre quite good at it.Sometimes youre open minded.I even agree with you on certain points.
I guess you could have been in a para unit and fought in Grozny.But youre not an ex-Spetz.
You see, when someone tells the truth,he uses memory.When he lies-imagination or he repeats listened stories.The memory- from the past,the imagination- from the present.First is made of details,conversations,feelings.The lies are created in an empty senseless space.In Russia they dont teach you how to lie at RI courses?
And you dont know **** about operating in wooden areas."Usually, firefights in the forests are made on 150-200 meter distance, among dense trees."yeah,right.
hist2004 could easily pretend hes a spetz.He knows more than you about it.

Second,even Sas had failed sometimes (the raid vs. a Sue airfield,B20,Bosnia..) but they admit they were wrong and learn from it.It is called professionalism.

Third,Jim Shortt trained Alpha, Sokol, Berkut, Grad, Titan, OMON, SOBR.If you think an ex-sterling serviceman sucks,it tells a lot.

So guys,if you like to hear lies,suite yourselves.


Here we go again :roll:

[AK-Lover]

Hey any of you russian brothers can answer my question, did the russian forces use fuel-air explosives in chechnya? I heard some stories about that, they explode above you're head and the chemical mixture ignites sucking all the air out of the area, thing they used it against the terrorists caves. :D

[RomanS]

Hey any of you russian brothers can answer my question, did the russian forces use fuel-air explosives in chechnya? I heard some stories about that, they explode above you're head and the chemical mixture ignites sucking all the air out of the area, thing they used it against the terrorists caves. :D

air fuel bombs? Vacumnie Bombi?

Oh those bombs



NO

[AK-Lover]

Oh, thanks Perm! :hug: woot

[RomanS]

Yes of course we used them
Come on, this is just a food for the peace monkeys

[AK-Lover]

i thought you said no? Oh well, anyway I read the article at Human Rights Watch :D They were saying how it is in-humane to use them against humans! rofl I thought they were using them against animals! rofl rofl

[tekko1973]

I've been to Groznyj on several occasions on some good work helping the "rebels" against you russian bastards. We've found some of your "handywork and we have also replied accordingly.
Seems to me you 're some barbaric creeps who have no idea about heart and mind.

[Javehn]

YES !! who is this now ??
About the 1973 , why did you choose this number ? Is it a year , and what so special to you in it ?

[tekko1973]

PermskiiOmon.
Seems to me you haven't been in Chechnya, since you did use
"F.A.E."munitions on several occasions.
Were you at home in Russia sleeping?

[tekko1973]

Well I chose 1973 because thats the year my unit was founded.
As simple as that.

[Russian Texan]

Third,Jim Shortt trained Alpha, Sokol, Berkut, Grad, Titan, OMON, SOBR.

Wow rofl rofl rofl

Kid, do you even know from what country Berkut and Titan are and what they do?
:lol:
So if I understand you correctly: He came to Ryazan' back in 1989 , gathered all of those units together in one location (of course some of them didn't exist back then, but its allright...) and trained them for, what, 2 weeks?

Stop making a fool out of yourself, you are pathetic...

[tekko1973]

And yes, it is special to me and my stick-partners, since we live, train and die together.

[Russian Texan]

I've been to Groznyj on several occasions on some good work helping the "rebels" against you russian bastards.

Got any pictures?
And why did you leave?

[tekko1973]

Who said I've left?

[tekko1973]

By the way, who is this irritating alexs?
He's annoying.

[AK-Lover]

Dude, post some pics of you in grozny, do they even have computers there? :P

[tekko1973]

AK-Lover, I'm on a PDA.

[Russian Texan]

Who said I've left?
Internet access in Grozny, wow!
Unless you are using satellite phone which is quite expensive for browsing ;)
Still, some pictures would be nice.
Where are you from originally and when did you come to Chechnya?

[tekko1973]

And I've seen a few computers here, but they were no good.
Smashed to pieces etc.

[AK-Lover]

A what? Hey I'm not that bright buddy, speak english! And beleive me the russians did the right thing just like we did in kosovo if it wasn't for the meddling americans. They freed those people from those allah lover ****heads! woot

[tekko1973]

Well, I'm not paying the bill.
And its hard to get photos in this little ****ty computer.
It doesn't accept mem-sticks.

[AK-Lover]

Yes we beleive you're in Grozny, in 3 secs tekko wakes up from his dream......1.......2........3.....no? rofl

[tekko1973]

Personal Digital Assistant.
A mini computer.
And I don't like Americans either.
They are meddling to much, plus being totally incompetent.
Look at Somalia 1993.

[tekko1973]

GIT.

[Russian Texan]

So you specialize in sabotage?

How the things are there?

[tekko1973]

We do a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
Whatever gains our employer.
Gives us some cash though.

[tekko1973]

But its getting a little hot around the corners these days.

[tekko1973]

And AK-Lover.
Sat-phones do have a quite good bandwidth.

[Russian Texan]

We do a little bit of this, a little bit of that.
Whatever gains our employer.
Gives us some cash though.

So how long have you been in business?
Any other "hot spot" experiences?

[RomanS]

Hey tekko

I only been there once. ANd it was before the war, you know those years when Chechens were holding hands with us, and walking in a circle around the hammer and sickel.

Great city Grozny was. I had many friends in there. My mom's best friend was living there, right near Starie Promisli. I've seen some awesome soccer games there. Spartak Terek vs Grozny.

I swam with my Chechen friends in Sunja, we also fished there. I was only 15 back than. I use to visit them a lot when I stayed in Mahachkala for a summer. Caspian sea, Derbent, fresh alycha, lavash i shashlik, life was BEAUTIFUL. Me, my mom and her brother would get on the train and go to Grozny, and Urus-Martan (Russian Martan).

Grozny alone had 31,000+ Orthodox Russians living in there. And another 200,000+ through out of Chechnya.

Life was going great. On the way back to Moscow in 1991, i was on the train Gudermes-Moskva, when we stoped in Mineralnie Vodi station. I came out of train to buy some "chebureki pies" from a stand, and ate them right outside while watching an Army train slowly drive by. On it was armour. BTR80s, T80s and BMP2s.

Something was up to no good.

I later found out that some group of ex-organized crime memmbers, and a bunch of religious folks went nuts in Grozny. But it wasn't the most popular storry, since the Soviet Union collapsed. Everyone was concentrating on the T80s on the bridge near hotel Ukraina shooting at the White House in Moscow.

I saw that with my own eyes with my friends. We were on the roof of a building 400 ft away. Kind of like glass seats, watching the 125mm shells hit the white building. And after each hit, clowds of paper, documents, furniture flying out of it.

I also remember my mom crying on the phone with her friend from Grozny. She was telling her about some neighbor that was killed by the new "Chechen government oficials". Just for being Russian, and not wanting to leave Ichkeria.

Apparently the new Chechen government is responsible for deaths of many many many Russian families living there during the 1991-1994.
The Russian media didn't cover it, or brought it to attention during those years much. All the TV said all day was how bad the commies war, and kept running a Mexican Soap Operas along with Santa Barbara's new season.

By the year of 1994, the tension was huge. Suddenly Yeltsin starts paying attention, and stops drinking for a whole 18 minutes. And he realizes that a group of thugs just turned into a fully armed republic ready to rockn'roll.

So they "the new Russian" government explained to us civilian folks that some little Russian republic is goign out of control, and that we need to go and preserve their constitution. But neither Hasbulatov, Gaidar, or Grachev tolled us that the republic is armed to their teeth, and ready to kill.

Majority of Russians after watching Yeltsin's speach on New Years eve of 1994, didn't care about Chechnya or Chezchoslovakia. We were getting drunk, eating "shproti", caviar, and celebrating the new 1995.

2000km from us, same people were kicked out of their flats, houses, and their property was prepared for a war zone. 60km North of Grozny, an 18 year old Russian soldier raised a cheap plastic cup with vodka, and wished everyone a Happy New Year, safe return home, and lots of health for his comrades. It was time to go in, and calm down the high on their own blood and hate Army of Dudaev.

First shots I guess came when the 131st Maikop Brigade, along with the armor support entered through Minutka towards downtown Grozny. The HELL BEGAN......

I would need more time and pages to write what happened there. All i can say is this....

The remaining force of our guys in Grozny tasted the war, and discovered their own REASON for the war in Chechnya.

By that I mean, after 7 hours of a New Years Eve fight, the left alive Russian soldiers saw an example of inhumane behavior.
They didn't care anymore about why they were there, they didn't give a **** what their generals tolled them about Grozny, and constitution. They saw it all forthemselves.

Their young friends, brothers, husbands, fathers, sons were hanging off the windows, with their heads off, private parts off, and crusified on the frames of hundreds of windows in Grozny.

The heads of their fellow soldiers were thrown to them across the streets, and found in the basements. The war took on a new meaning for both sides.

At the end of the first Chechen war, Russians realized that we don't want anymore blood in this useless conflict. Chechnya had their independence, and power.

Guess what happened.......


I will never be tired of explaining my own view.

SO PLEASE, lets not touch this Russian inadors, agreesors, murderers issue anymore!

I know what our forces used, why and how. There were no air-fuel bombs used on civilians "ON PURPOSE"

How much did you get paid to go and fight for the Chechens by the way?

[tekko1973]

I've been in this since I left the Army in 1973, when we founded our unit, I was in Somalia 1993, but not in Mogadishu, since it was too damn hot for us.Former Yugoslavia, Kongo-Zaire. Rwanda.

[tekko1973]

PermskiiOmon, Sorry about that.
I never said you used it against civvies.
No more jumps on you then.
Sorry again.

[tekko1973]

We're not here fighting for the Chechens, and we were paid quite a lot.

[Russian Texan]

I've been in this since I left the Army in 1973, when we founded our unit, I was in Somalia 1993, but not in Mogadishu, since it was too damn hot for us.Former Yugoslavia, Kongo-Zaire. Rwanda.

You must be good if you are still alive ;)
Plan on retiring anytime soon or what's the next destination?

[RomanS]

tekko

What Area district based I mean, where have you operated?

[RomanS]

he's probably going on the internet, and typing
MAP OF CHECHNYA

[tekko1973]

RT, Yes I'm having second thoughts about this proffession, but we're here for a job so we have to finish it,after this we'll see what next.
That's really not up to me.

[tekko1973]

Permskii, I can only have one window at the same time, I have only 32MB RAM.

[RomanS]

tekko

what kind of ammo do you like? I'm just curious, what do you guys preffer this time.

[tekko1973]

And besides, it would be rather stupid of me telling you where we are, have been, will be since we do not want to risk getting caught doing this.
It would probably not taste very good.

[Russian Texan]

RT, Yes I'm having second thoughts about this proffession, but we're here for a job so we have to finish it,after this we'll see what next.
That's really not up to me.

Is it always about the money or sometimes it is for a cause?

What do you think about situation in Chechnya in general?

[tekko1973]

Berretta 92-FS+Silencer.
Here at least. They are easily concealed.

[RomanS]

You guys get a lot of 9x18 parabellum ammo over there I take it.

Have you tried pm calliber ?

Tekko, also do you know of Aquil Collins, and his book My Jihad?