Husaria - polish winged cavalry.

[LeMat]

Between first half of XVI century (1514 battle of Orsza) to the end of XVII century (1683 battle of Vienna) Poland had the best cavalry unit in history of civilisation.
http://www.jest.art.pl/br1.jpg
http://www.jest.art.pl/br3.jpg
Husaria was heavy, armoured cavalry which was as fast as light eastern cavalry but had a power and armours stronger than western heavy cavalry.
Husarz (soldier of Husaria) was armed in excellent sabre - far better than japanese sword
http://www.notsmallmall.com/Poland_by_Mail_Polart_Hussaria_Sabre_XVII_c_Weapons_Armor_6442585.html
also with a pistol or two (sometimes heavy pistols - bandolets), 15-foot-long lance and koncerz - a kind of long spade/rapier used to pierce armour. Husarz could hit by his lance a ring when he was riding at full speed!
Most famous thing in Husarz`s armour were wings. It is unclear if it was really used during battles. Some historicians said that it was used - wings were used to scare enemy horses and to prevent from catching Husarz on arkan (lasso). Some other say that wings were used only at ceremonial occasions (like funerals).

http://www.jest.art.pl/tlo19.jpg

Husaria won almost all battles. It lost only when was used in wrong way (for example in mud or forrest). The most famous battle won by Husaria was battle at Kircholm in 1605

http://www.jest.art.pl/kirch1.jpg

Poland had 3500 (or 4000) soldiers under command of Jan Karol Chodkiewicz:

http://www.jest.art.pl/50chodki.jpg

Husaria: 1900
Infantry: 1000
Light cavalry: 300
Heavy cavalry Rajtaria: 300
Guns: 4-7

Swedish had 11000 soldiers or more under command of King Carol IX:
Heavy cavalry Rajtaria : 5000 or more
Infantry: 6000 or more
Guns 11 or more.
Swedish army was completely annihilated - at least 6000 swedish soldiers were killed (including Fryderyk prince of Lünebug). Swedish king Carol IX was injured and all swedish banners and guns were captured. We lost about 100 soldiers!!

Other great battle was Battle at Chocim in 1673 when 29000 polish soldiers (number of Husarzs: 1690) slaughteret army of Turkey (30000 soldiers). Only slightly more than 5000 enemy soldiers survived!

http://www.jest.art.pl/chociobraz73.jpg

Sorry for that word "Husarzs" but I don`t know how to translate "two or more members of Husaria". Also other words were difficulity to translate so don`t be angry ;)

http://www.jest.art.pl/chocihus1673.gif

During batles with Husaria often enemy soldiers were fleeing in panic when Husaria had just started to charge - before real fight! So - enemy had a choice - fight and die or run and die :)

[Marmot1]

Few more photos (from movies and reenactments) and pictures.

http://free.polbox.pl/f/family/images/husaria.jpg
http://bfn.org/~pacb/calendar/ogniem1a.jpg
http://www.wielkapolska.republika.pl/grafika/husaria.jpg

The Husaria wore these wooden arcs with eagle feathers as a psychological weapon: apparently it makes a frightening sound. The superior officers also wore the skin of a tiger or leopard over their shoulders, as a symbol of valour.

http://husaria1.webpark.pl/gfx/husarz3d.jpg
"For over a century, the Husaria were the lords of the battlefield, delivering the decisive blow in many an important engagement; at Kircholm (1605) 3,900 Poles accounted for 13,500 Swedes, at Klushino (1610) 6,000 Poles (of only 200 were infantry) defeated 30,000 Muscovite and 5,000 German and Scottish mercenaries, at Gniew on the onset of the Deluge in the midst of agonizing defeats everywhere (1656) 5,500 Polish cavalry defeated 13,000 Swedes and outside Vienna (1683) the Husaria saved Europe from the, until then, unstoppable might of the Ottoman Empire. In 1699, the remnants of the once mighty army of the Commonwealth defeated the Tartars & Turks at Podhajce, the final engagement of the Poles with the Ottomans."
http://www.swiatniki-gorne.pl/zs/serwis/zobacz/mmo/img/husaria_1.jpg

http://landofthewingedhorsemen.homestead.com/files/Winged_Hussar1.jpg
http://www.polishprestige.pl/s/p/43/243/husaria_m.jpg
http://plfoto.com/old_zdjecia/63.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/hussar11.jpg
King Bathory at Pskov by Jan Matejko (1838-1893)
http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/hussar2.jpg
Polish Winged Hussar Armor and Horse Tack, on display in a Polish Museum

gallery in english:
http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/museum.html

[wholagun]

**** Marmot, you beat me to it.. damn it, i was gonna do a post of this type, I got know a good site that got great science behind Hussarias success in the battle field, they were years ahead in cavalry thinking, ill post it later when i get back from class.

[Rantanplan]

Some of the pics are from Ogniem i mieczem, right? :D

[Rantanplan]

Great post Btw. woot

[mustamato]

Quite interesting. The Finns had a as I´ve understood it a feared cavalry
in the Hakkapeliitas (nowadays that name is probably most famous because
of the Nokia Hakkapeliitta tyre). The name was given to them by the forces
they met, because their battle cry was "Hakkaa päälle (pohjan poika)" which
would translate to "Charge, men of the north!" or alternatively "Slash for the head".
Obviously, with constant war these were probably quite bad ass (not that unusual
back in the days I guess).

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/europa_1630.jpg
Europe before the 30-year war (1630). Both Poland and Sweden were quite large back then

http://tietokannat.mil.fi/postikortti/kuvat/vaaka_DDDDhakka.jpg
During one of the numerous battles of the 30-year war

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/lech.jpg
Swedish forces crossing the river Lech, this was one of the first times in the
war history where smoke was used, this was used as a distraction while a couple
of Hakkapelitas swimmed over the river (with a rope) armed only with knives.
The soldiers got plenty of gold as reward afterwards

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/lutzen.jpg
Swedish king getting killed in the battle of Lützen 1632, the Finnish cavalry,
the Hakkapeliitas was responsible for the protection of the king, but the king that
had a bad eyesight charged the enemy alone(!) and got killed before the cavalry
could move in and protect him

______________________________________________

As for the Swedish-Polish battles mentioned here, well here is the Swedish version:

Kirkholm 1605 is referred to in Sweden as "the forgotten catastrophy"
11.000 Swedes forces against 3600 Polish, the Swedish side had losses of
about 9500 men while the Polish side lost a couple of hundred. Yes I give you
right on that one.

Warszawa 1656, is referred to in Sweden as "Three days in July", a long
and bloody battle that lasted three days. Swedish troops of 9500 men and 8500
troops from Brandenburg against Polish troops of 36.000-40.000 men. The Poles
lost about 2600 soldiers while the other (our) side lost 1300 men. The Poles
retreated and the result was that Warszawa (spelling spelling) fell in our hands.
So I wouldn´t exactly call that something succesful from a Polish point of view.

[Herrmannek]

Hussaria – Polish Winged Cavalry

By Slawek K. Grzechnik, http://home.san.rr.com/slawek/
Jan 25, 2000 mailto:slawek@san.rr.com



Name and Origins

There is no English equivalent for "hussaria", Polish armored cavalry of the 16th and 17th centuries. This name should not be confused with that of the huzars, the light cavalry used in the 18th and 19th centuries by European armies. The name "husar" in the 14th century denoted a mounted knight in southern Slavic languages. As the Turkish empire expanded deeper into Southern Europe in the 14th and 15th centuries, many refugees found themselves in Hungary, where they were welcomed because of their experience in fighting against Turks. Troops of "husars" were then formed in Hungary. Thanks to their contact with the advanced military arts of the East, the "husar" troops fought as units capable of maneuvering on the battlefield. The technique was quite new in Europe at the time: a typical knights’ battle was a series of duels which commanders had very little influenced over once started.

Poland had very close ties with Hungary, and by the end of the 15th century the first hussar troops were created to serve as light cavalry. In a few generations they evolved into armored assault cavalry, which was unique in all of Europe, the pride of the Polish army until the end of the 17th century. The Polish warfare evolved differently than that of western Europeans, whose infantry was becoming much more important than cavalry. Several factors caused this unique evolution:

* Territory and distance.
Until the 17th century, the Commonwealth of the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was still expanding, reaching nearly 1million km2 (about 390,000 square miles). Distances were large compared to other parts of Europe and armies were required to move quickly, so cavalry became predominant.

* Diversity of enemies
Because of the location of the Commonwealth formed by the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, it was the bridge between East and West. At the time of interest it had borders with:
- Russia in the Northeast. Russia was not yet a super power, but its strength was growing and clashes were escalating.
- Tartars in the Southeast, the remnants of Genghis Khan’s successors onslaught on Europe during the 13th century. They were a troublesome enemy who made yearly raids on the southern part of the state.
- Turkey in the South. Moslem Turkey was a super power of the time. In the 17th century, Turkey’s European holdings included Greece, all of the Balkans, today’s Romania, and Hungary, and it was close to conquering the Austrian Empire and other parts of Europe.
- Austrian Empire and German States in the West
- Sweden in the North. Sweden was then a very aggressive state, already occupying today’s Finland, Latvia, Estonia, and Northern Germany, with aspirations of becoming the dominant Baltic power.

Each of the neighbors applied different military techniques, so Poland and Lithuania had to invent their own tactics to face each one.

* Great commanders
In the 16th and 17th centuries, Poland and Lithuania produced a succession of great commanders-in-chief which was without precedence in its history, and has not been eclipsed since. A chronological list of the names includes: Konstanty Ostrogski, Jan Tarnowski, Stefan Batory (King), Jan Zamoyski, Mikolaj Radziwil, Krzysztof Radziwil, Karol Chodkiewicz, Stanislaw Zolkiewski, Stanislaw Lubomirski, Stanislaw Koniecpolski, Jeremi Wisniowiecki, Stefan Czarniecki, and Jan Sobieski (King).

* Polish ideals of manhood during the Renaissance and early Baroque
Young men of nobility, besides acquiring an education, were expected to spend at least a few years in military service and later join the army when the need arose. From childhood, they were raised to be excellent horsemen and men-at-arms. Thus they were first-class military material.

Due to these factors, cavalry usually constituted 80% of Polish forces during most campaigns. Hussaria was assault cavalry, whose main task was breaching enemy formations with charges at top speed. Its role was similar to that of armored divisions used to break lines during WWII.



Armor, Armament and Wings

Hussaria was the cream of the Polish army and mainly, though not exclusively, nobility served in its ranks and files. Once in service, soldiers were paid, but they were responsible for equipping themselves and their squires at considerable cost. To start with, each soldier and his squires had to have good horses. The armor was light for speed and protected the arms and upper parts of the body. The armament consisted of 15-foot-long lances (the only equipment provided by the King), sabers, estocs (piercing rapiers), and pistols. Long firearms were recommended, but not required until the late 17th century. Many soldiers had bows, which (especially Tartar or Turkish bows) still had better range and were easier to use than early firearms.

The famous wings were not obligatory; however, many soldiers of hussaria used them. The wings were light wooden frames with rows of feathers and were attached to the back of the armor, sometimes to the saddle. Their purpose was not just decorative. During high-speed charges, the wings produced a buzzing sound which frightened enemy horses and disturbed enemy troops who saw winged horsemen charging at them. Also, the Tartars’ lasso, or "arkan", was difficult to use against soldiers with wings protruding above their heads. Wings, though not universally used, were the distinctive feature of hussaria and became its symbol. Today, hussaria wings are present in emblems of the Polish Air Force and Armored Divisions.


Battle Tactics

Hussaria was considered to be heavy assault cavalry only by the Polish and Lithuanian army. The West did not have this type of cavalry, and hussaria was considered light by western standards of speed and tactics. The main task of hussaria during battle was to breach enemy formations. Polish commanders of the 16th and 17th centuries realized that the effectiveness of firearms was still very limited, so a charge by good horsemen had to endure at most one salvo before reaching the enemy with lances and sabers. This was sound reasoning, and hussaria won most battles they fought, in many cases against foes of far greater numbers. Victory by outnumbered forces is nothing special in the history of warfare provided that the troops used are well trained and bolstered with high morale. This was the case of hussaria for the span of nearly two centuries.

In the initial phases of a charge, hussaria loosened and tightened their formation a few times in order to diminish the effect of enemy fire. The charge was started at low speed and riders accelerated during its progress, reaching top speed just before the enemy. This not only preserved the horses’ strength, but also had psychological effects on the enemy who saw the preliminaries to the charge. Extremely long but light lances were used to break opponents’ formations, and were supposed to break during the clash. After the lances were gone, sabers and estocs were used.

When the first charge was not successful, hussaria withdrew and charged again. There were battles in which the same troops charged 10 times and later helped pursue the enemy. This was possible only with highly trained units that could withdraw and regroup in an orderly manner.

Except in a few cases, casualties suffered by hussaria were very low, and this was the best proof of their worth, as well as proof of the talent of Polish commanders of the time.

The list of major battles won by Polish and Lithuanian armies using hussaria is given in the appendix. A short description of the famous battle of Vienna follows.


Battle of Vienna, Sep 12, 1683

This battle is classified by historians as one of the most decisive battles of the world. The Turkish Empire was then at the peak of its power and occupied most of southeastern Europe. A powerful Turkish army of 110,000 led by Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa laid siege to Vienna in August 1683. The Turks’ seizure of the city would mean the fall of the Austrian Empire, leaving the middle of Europe open to Turkish invasion, and would probably have changed the course of history of Christendom and European civilization.

Part of the Austrian army defended the city. The rest, though bolstered by German troops, were unable to face the Turks on their own, so awaited the coming of the Polish army. Polish relations with Austria and Germans were not very friendly, but the King of Poland, Jan III Sobieski, understood very well that the fall of Vienna would be disastrous for his country and the rest of Europe. In the spring of 1683, a pact of mutual aid against Turkish attack was signed between the Polish King and the Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I of Austria.

The Polish army of 27,000 soldiers, half of which was cavalry including 3,300 hussars, was assembled in the second half of August, and because of the gravity of the situation the King marched south, not waiting for the Lithuanians. Near Vienna, Polish forces were joined by Austrian and German troops, and the allied army totaled about 75,000 soldiers. According to the pact, the Polish King became the commander-in-chief. His military genius and victories over past 20 years were all too well known. During the council of war on Sep 3, the King devised a battle plan for the allied forces.

On Sep 12, the army approached Vienna and took positions against the Turks besieging the city. A small hussaria unit was sent to charge enemy lines to examine the terrain and explore the possibility of an all-out assault. The result was positive, and in spite of the late afternoon start, the King decided to attack with all allied cavalry to prevent the Turks from preparing stronger defenses. Polish hussaria attacked in the center and on the right wing and took the Turkish camp, together with the palace-like tents of Kara Mustafa and an enormous booty. The Austrians and Germans charged on the left and also broke enemy lines. The Turkish army was completely defeated. The war lasted a few more months, but from that day on, the Turkish Empire was on retreat in southeast Europe.

Turkish standards and other trophies were sent to the Pope in Rome and victory was celebrated with solemn masses all over Europe.

Legend has it that the habit of drinking coffee was spread in Europe after the battle. This is only partially true and may be the case for only Vienna and its famous coffee. In Poland, coffee became popular 10 years earlier after the second battle of Khotin in 1673. In southern Europe, coffee was known prior to the battle.

In 1690 one of the constellations was named "Scutum Sobieskii" (Sobieski’s Shield) to commemorate the battle.

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Appendix: Battles won with Hussaria

Here is a list of major battles won by Polish and Lithuanian forces in the 16th and 17th centuries, some won solely by cavalry. Where the army was led by Lithuanian commanders, a note is made.

* 1514 – Orsza, against Russia. Pictures of this battle show hussaria already equipped with wings. Commander Konstanty Ostrogski of Lithuania
* 1531 – Obertyn, against Moldavia. Commander Jan Tarnowski
* 1579-1581 – three succesful wars against Russia with cavalry raids. Commanders King Stefan Batory, Jan Zamoyski, Mikolaj, and Krzysztof Radziwil of Lithuania. During Stefan Batory's reign King's Regulations were issued giving hussaria its final shape
* 1588 –Byczyna, against domestic rebels and Austrian troops. Commander Jan Zamoyski
* 1595 – Solonica, against Ukrainian rebels. Commander Stanislaw Zolkiewski
* 1605 – Kircholm, pure cavalry battle against Swedes. Commander Karol Chodkiewicz of Lithuania
* 1610 – Kluszyn, pure cavalry battle against Russians. Commander Stanislaw Zolkiewski. The battle in which some hussaria units attacked ten times
* 1621 – defense of trenches near Khotin against Turkish army. Together with other troops, hussaria were used in and outside the trenches. Commanders Karol Chodkiewicz of Lithuania and Stanislaw Lubomirski
* 1629 – Trzciana, pure cavalry battle against Swedes. Commander Stanislaw Koniecpolski
* 1637 – Kumejki, against Ukrainian rebels. Commander Mikolaj Potocki

* 1644 – Ochmatow against Tatars, Commanders Stanislaw Koniecpolski and Jeremi Wisniowiecki
* 1649 – defense of trenches of Zbarazh against Ukrainian rebels and Tatars. As in Khotin, hussaria were used with other troops in and outside the trenches. Commander Jeremi Wisniowiecki
* 1651 – Beresteczko against Ukrainian rebels and Tartars. Commanders King Jan Kazimierz and Jeremi Wisniowiecki
* 1656 – battle of Warsaw against Swedes. An incredible charge of hussaria led by Aleksander Polubinski of Lithuania saved the Polish-Lithuanian army despite their losing the battle
* 1660s – battles against Swedes and rebelling Ukrainians. Commander Stefan Czarniecki
* late 1660s – numerous battles against Tartars and Turks. Commander Jan Sobieski
* 1673 – Khotin again. This time besieging an entrenched Turkish army. Hussaria were used
* for the final assault once breaches in the trenches were done. Commander Jan Sobieski was crowned King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania next year.
* 1683 – relief of Vienna besieged by Turkish army. One of the battles that decided the fate of Europe. Commander Jan III Sobieski King of Poland


Sources:

1. Cichowski, Jerzy. Husaria /, Jerzy Cichowski, Andrzej Szulczynski. Wyd. Warszawa : Wydawn. Ministerstwa Obrony Narodowej, 1977
2. Ksiega jazdy polskiej /, [autorzy Boleslaw Wieniawa-Dlugoszowski ... et al.]. Warszawa : [s.n.], 1938
3. Jasienica, Pawel. Rzeczpospolita obojga narodów. English. The Commonwealth of both nations/, by Pawel Jasienica ; translated by Alexander Jordan. Miami : American Institute of Polish Culture ; New York: Hippocrene Books, 1987
4. Rosciszewski, Piotr. Szlak Husarii Polskiej : przewodnik /, Piotr Rosciszewski. Wyd. Gliwice : Polskie Towarzystwo Turystyczno-Krajoznawcze. Oddzial w Gliwicach, 1984
5. Microsoft Encarta 2000, keyword: Sobieski

[Piotrek]

http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/hussar14.jpg

Hussars charge at the Battle of Vienna

http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/hussar10.jpg

olish Winged Hussars pass in review by Wojciech Kossak (1857-1942)

http://www.geocities.com/rik_fox/husaria/hussar35.jpg
I'm not sure but i think that in the background You can see one of otoman tents captured by polish forces during the battle - they are exhibited in Museum of Polish Army in Warsaw

[Piotrek]

http://www.wingedhussar.org/husaria.jpg

How sweet - Operation Ive would say woot :D

[mustamato]

* 1656 – battle of Warsaw against Swedes. An incredible charge of hussaria led by Aleksander Polubinski of Lithuania saved the Polish-Lithuanian army despite their losing the battle


Hm yes, isn´t it said that Poland was very close to get defeated (which of course
would have happened if their army would have been asskicked in that battle),
but the Hussars saved them.

I´ve been thinking a little about that word. We have it in Sweden as well, Is it a
Polish word originally? In example "Smålands husarer" that was formed in 1543,
but I don´t know when they started calling them self hussars. There was also
in example "Skånska Husarregementet", but this was formed first in 1703. I
think the pictures shows early 19th century Swedish hussars.

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/A13smallhusar.jpg

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/A12livreghus.jpg

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/mustamato/A2kronprreg.jpg

http://www.eksjo.se/linneskolan/itis/militar_old/Karolin.jpg
One of the Swedish veterans of the campaign against Poland
in the 18th century :)

[Rantanplan]

I think this Swedish Husar regiment was trained an uniformed after Hungarian pattern. Hungarin Husars became verry popular in europe in the late 17th century. But they have nothing in common with polish Hussars. As far I know the Hussaria turned during the 18 century to Uhlans (still fighting with lances but no bodyarmot) and was still used in WW2.

[Piotrek]

Well i think that You are talking about huZars not huSaras - those are 2 different cavalry units - huzars were light hungarian cavalry (orginali hungarian but in other countries ther were huzaria units as well - they were modeled on hungarian units its similar situation like with lansjers which were orginaly polish unit) and husaria was polish havy cavalry - as You can see they used different equipment and they were dressed in different manner.

But to answer Your question - I think polish "husaria" word come from hungarian "huzaria" word - in Poland light cavalary based on hungarian one called "racka" become heavy one with own tactic and equipment, become "husaria"

hope You were able to understand my poor English :)


http://www.eksjo.se/linneskolan/itis/militar_old/Karolin.jpg
One of the Swedish veterans of the campaign against Poland
in the 18th century

I am afraid that in XVIII century our country started to by weaker and weaker and finaly and finaly disappeared in 1795 for 123 years :(

[Piotrek]

As far I know the Hussaria turned during the 18 century to Uhlans (still fighting with lances but no bodyarmot) and was still used in WW2.

I dont know if ther is a proper word in english but in polish ther are two different words - "kopia" i "lanca"

"kopia" - those were lances used by medieval knights (about 4m of lenght) - like this one:
http://www.man.poznan.pl/~ritter/Images/kopia.gif

husaria also used "kopii" but these were longer (about 5 - 5,5m of lenght) and hollow inside - after the first strike "kopia" was broken and then husarz was using koncerz - kind of very long sword (up to 1,6m of lengt) like this on:
http://www.husaria.jest.pl/rrh6.jpg

"lanca" is quite different weapon then "kopia" - it is much shorter (about 2,7m of lenght) and the rider is able to strike with it in every direction - "lanca" looks like this:
http://www.man.poznan.pl/~ritter/Images/lanca.gif

[Marmot1]

The world Hussar apeared in polish chronicles for the first time in year 1500 and yes there is diference betwer Huzar and Husar the first one is hungarian (orginally) light cavalery second one is polish heavy cavalery.


I think this Swedish Husar regiment was trained an uniformed after Hungarian pattern. Hungarin Husars became verry popular in europe in the late 17th century. But they have nothing in common with polish Hussars. As far I know the Hussaria turned during the 18 century to Uhlans (still fighting with lances but no bodyarmot) and was still used in WW2.


Ulan is polish cavalery of 19 and begining of 20 century... and lance was used only as a parade weapon and maybe occasionally during polish - soviet war in 1920 at the time of WW2 Ulans were mouted infantry armed with short version of K98 Maauser, 35mm Bofors AT guns, and HMG, they used lances only on parades and even sabers were decommisioned in 1938 AFAIR, but most of them still weared them as a symbol of status since Ulans had a very good reputation and social status and can be treated as an elite units... They used horses only for transpotation and fighted dismounted and in whole 1939 war there is only one known exampe when they charged while being on horses.
here are some photos of "Ułan" gear..


may be loading crapy but should load.
http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/aa1/m_ulan_39a.jpg
http://www.m-model.pl/iiwojna/35004.jpg
http://www.m-model.pl/iiwojna/35002.jpg
http://www.m-model.pl/iiwojna/35001.jpg
http://free.polbox.pl/r/radeksc/ulan/ua.jpg
http://krechowiacy.republika.pl/galery/ossow02.jpg
http://www.ait.com.pl/konie/kusz.jpg

[Piotrek]

They used horses only for transpotation and fighted dismounted and in whole 1939 war there is only one known exampe when they charged while being on horses.

Wow - I also thought that there was only one charge at Wólka Węglowa - known thanks to relation of italian war correspondent Mario Appelius but it seems that there was more charges (sorry only in polish):

http://www.kawaleria2rp.horsesport.pl/szarze.htm

The best is that most of them were successful due to the element of surprise and speed woot and ofcourse no-one was charging tanks - charges on tanks were invention of stupid propaganda.

[Rantanplan]

Ulan is polish cavalery of 19 and begining of 20 century...

Prussia used already during the Seven years war Ulans (Ulanen). And as far I know where they recruted from Poles.

http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/sturm/img/stm1_107.jpg
Ulan der Natzmer-Ulanen 1740 - 1742

http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/tafeln/knoe10/knoe10_21.jpg




and lance was used only as a parade weapon...

You mean Ulans of the 20th century, right?

[Marmot1]

Ulan is polish cavalery of 19 and begining of 20 century...

Prussia used already during the Seven years war Ulans (Ulanen). And as far I know where they recruted from Poles.

http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/sturm/img/stm1_107.jpg
Ulan der Natzmer-Ulanen 1740 - 1742
Well I was talking about "modern" Ulans :lol: btw "Ulan" comes from turkish "ohlan" which means boy/scout and it was used in poland since 18 century when first ulan units were formed. One of the greatest charges in Ulans history was in 1808 in Somosierra valley in Spain where 125 of them lead by Kozietulski atacked and captured spanish artilery which lead to colapse of 10 000 strong spanish defence and allowed Napoleon to capture Madrid; in this charge 57 out of 125 were dead and almos all were wounded...
http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/Kossak_W/Images/Somosierra.jpg
Somosierra charge



and lance was used only as a parade weapon...

You mean Ulans of the 20th century, right?
Yes

[sergey31]

Polish did lunch an impressive cavalery assault on German panzer tank lines in 1939.... Bet we know the outcome of that.[/b]

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Polish did lunch an impressive cavalery assault on German panzer tank lines in 1939.... Bet we know the outcome of that.[/b]

Bull****. Learn history, man.

[sergey31]

BS what?
You mean, it didn't happen?
I see who needs to take some history classes?

P.S. Horse is no match for a tank on a moder battlefield.

[Collosus]

Basicaly those horsmen were surrounded and tried to to break through and were slauthered, but they did NOT attack panzer division purposely
as Hitler tried toportray that.

[sergey31]

There are many stories and rumors on what really happen, I'm not saying that all their cavelary did this but there was a few fights that did resorted to desperation and you have to be very determine to do this anyway. Nevertheless Poland did maintain one if not the largest Cavelary in the world an the time, bigger then even Russia.

[Piotrek]

Polish did lunch an impressive cavalery assault on German panzer tank lines in 1939.... Bet we know the outcome of that.[/b]

sorry but this is not true

Polish cavalry was quite effective against german tanks - why? Because Polish cavalry was armed with Bofors anti-tank cannons and was very mobile and during the fight they were fighting like normal infantry - the only charges witch took place during September Campain were against german infantry and cavalry (!!)

[Chasseur_Alpin]

their uniforms were better during the napoleon wars:
http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard/chleger.gif
http://soldats.empire.free.fr/figurine/francais/ita6039a.jpg

[Rantanplan]

http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard/chleger.gif

This is a french Lancier of the Line Cavalry.....

http://soldats.empire.free.fr/figurine/francais/ita6039a.jpg

.....ans this are Dutch Lanciers of the Imperian Guard, dude

[Chasseur_Alpin]

the 1st is a poland lancier in the Great Army
2nd are dutch and polish lanciers.

nothing common with hussar wingeg I know! :lol:

question: Poland vs Cossacks, were hussards wingeg fighting?

http://www.stanford.edu/~gfreidin/images/art/Repin_cossacks.jpg

[LeMat]

Polish did lunch an impressive cavalery assault on German panzer tank lines in 1939.... Bet we know the outcome of that.[/b]

rofl Do you believe in that german propaganda?? Polish cavalry had wz.35 AT rifle and 37 mm wz. 36 Bofors ATG - there were no need to charge. There weren`t any cavalry charge against german tanks!!

[Piotrek]

BS what?
You mean, it didn't happen?
I see who needs to take some history classes?

P.S. Horse is no match for a tank on a moder battlefield.

It didnt happen - basically because our cavalry was armed with AT cannons and didnt have to charge german tanks beside do You really believe that Polles are idiots and would try to destroy german tanks with sabres and lances?? - You dont have to like Polles but at least try to by a little objective!!

[Rantanplan]

the 1st is a poland lancier in the Great Army
2nd are dutch and polish lanciers.

Nope 1st Pic is a frenchman

In the 2nd Pic is not a single pole just cracy Dutchman.

Sorry, you are just wrong buddy

[sergey31]

There are many stories and rumors on what really happen, I'm not saying that all their cavelary did this but there was a few fights that did resorted to desperation and you have to be very determine to do this anyway. Nevertheless Poland did maintain one if not the largest Cavelary in the world an the time, bigger then even Russia.

[Rantanplan]

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Rantanplan/11111111111N36.jpg

left: french Lancers, right: polish Lancers

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Rantanplan/111111111N32.jpg

left: polish guard Lancers, right: dutch guard Lancers

[volfram]

In the second picture there are red lancers .it was generaly dutch unit but there was lot of pols there.Their uniforms was identical like polish lancers but diferent colour.

[Rantanplan]

In the second picture there are red lancers .it was generaly dutch unit but there was lot of pols there.Their uniforms was identical like polish lancers but diferent colour.

I think you mean the 100 men that fought during the Waterloo campaign in the dutch gurad regiment, right? They were former members of the polish guard regiment and they whore the old blue polish uniform anyway.

[sergey31]

Sorry guys but there were some battles that happen where only victors talked about what had happen afterwords, they can lie or tell the truth but as it is right not not one can say 100% of anything.

There were some cases where they did charge, but after seeing a bigger picture pun on the brakes and reatreated only being shot in the back.

[Collosus]

Sorry guys but there were some battles that happen where only victors talked about what had happen afterwords, they can lie or tell the truth but as it is right not not one can say 100% of anything.

There were some cases where they did charge, but after seeing a bigger picture pun on the brakes and reatreated only being shot in the back.

Can u point any sources of this claims?

[Chasseur_Alpin]

****, this site is wrong so?
http://www.histoiredumonde.net/1er_empire/hussard/lancier.html

. La lance est pratiquement abandonnée comme arme de cavalerie dans les armées françaises depuis le dé*but du xvtte siècle. Il faut attendre l'Em*pire pour qu'elle soit réintroduite. En ef*fet, lors de son entrée à Varsovie, en dé*cembre 1806, Napoléon est entouréd'une garde constituée de jeunes nobles polonais. Ce sont eux qui constitueront le noyau des futurs lanciers sous la forme primitive d'un régiment de che*vau-légers polonais de la garde.

Ce régi*ment est envoyé en Espagne en 1808 et se distingue par une fameuse charge au col de Somosierra, le 29 novembre 1808. Malgré la légende et une icono*graphie fantaisiste postérieure, ces Polo*nais n'utilisaient alors pas encore la lance. C'est à Wagram, lors d'une charge contre les uhlans de Schwarzen*berg, qu'ils ramassent les lances aban*données par ces derniers et s'en servent pour la première fois. Napoléon aurait admiré leur aisance dans l'usage de cette arme et leur en aurait accordé le port.

En septembre 1810, les hussards de la garde hollandaise de*viennent le deuxième régiment de lan*ciers, dits lanciers rouges à cause de la couleur de leurs uniformes. Un 3e régi*ment, créé en 1812, aura une brève exis*tence. Le décret du 18 juin 1811 trans*forme 6 régiments de dragons (les ler, 3e, 8e, 9e, 10e et 29e) et le 30e chasseurs en régiments de chevau-légers lanciers, armés de la lance de 2,75 m, du sabre de cavalerie légère, du pistolet et du mousqueton. En théorie, un régiment de lanciers était affecté à chaque division de cuirassiers, en pratique, les lanciers firent partie de n'importe quelle division de cavalerie

do I trad for you? :D

Napoleon enters in 1806 in Varsovia, he is surrounded by young polish noblemen. That's them who will form the future lanciers cavalery of Napoleon Army...
This régi*ment is sent in Spain in 1808 and is characterized by a famous load at Somosierra, November 29, 1808.
But it's in Wagram, at the time of a load against the uhlans of Schwarzen*berg, which they collect the uhlans lances on the battleground and make use of it for the first time.

In September 1810, the hussards of the Dutch guard become the second regiment of lan*ciers, known as red lancers because of the color of their uniforms.
In 1811, 6 dragons regiment become lanciers. All lanciers aren't all polish or dutch, there are foreigners like lituanians...

So, I think all were polish or dutch at the beginning.


But why the first is french? only with uniform?

[Rantanplan]

Le décret du 18 juin 1811 trans*forme 6 régiments de dragons (les ler, 3e, 8e, 9e, 10e et 29e) et le 30e chasseurs en régiments de chevau-légers lanciers, armés de la lance de 2,75 m, du sabre de cavalerie légère, du pistolet et du mousqueton. En théorie, un régiment de lanciers était affecté à chaque division de cuirassiers, en pratique, les lanciers firent partie de n'importe quelle division de cavalerie

This 6 dragoon and the Chasseur regiment were recruted from frenchman and as they become Lancers they were uniformen in an differend way as the poles.

just like this:

http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard/chleger.gif

Poles whore Uniforms like this one:

http://www.napoleonguide.com/images/lancer.jpg

[Chasseur_Alpin]

OOPS,

I have just check in my books, I'm wrong, the 1st picture is a french lancers, but the 2nd picture represent polish and dutch lancers.

Sorry for my obstinacy...

[sergey31]

Sorry guys but there were some battles that happen where only victors talked about what had happen afterwords, they can lie or tell the truth but as it is right not not one can say 100% of anything.

There were some cases where they did charge, but after seeing a bigger picture pun on the brakes and reatreated only being shot in the back.

Can u point any sources of this claims?

Not on internet.
School back in Russia in the late 80's......... And one program on History channel, forgot the title of it, also my grandfather also said that thy tried similar charges against Russians in 1939 (he was actally there)....Sorry Polish guys he did what he was orderd to do or he would have gotten a bullet himself.

[Chasseur_Alpin]

1811, lancers:
6 french regiment, 2 polish, 1 german...

and this one? :lol:
http://www.demisoldepress.com/images/print256.jpg

and this one?
http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard_garde/lancierrougetoff.gif

[Collosus]

Not on internet.
School back in Russia in the late 80's......... And one program on History channel, forgot the title of it, also my grandfather also said that thy tried similar charges against Russians in 1939 (he was actally there)....Sorry Polish guys he did what he was orderd to do or he would have gotten a bullet himself

Soldier i only a tool i politics hands, i could provide many quotes from history books(not polish) about the so called charges but the time does not permit me to do it today.
Anyway Hitler's propaganda did work extremly well.
As a not of interest the french were the first to laugh at so called polich cavalery charges and later in 1940 they did just that them selfs.

[Rantanplan]

French Lancers and the Colonels Who Led Them 1811-1815:

By Tony Broughton, FINS



1er Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Created in 1811, from the 1er Regiment de Dragons.

Colonels

1811: Dermontcourt (Paul-Ferdinand-Stanislas) ,had previously been Colonel of the 1er Regiment de Dragons, 5 April 1807
1813: Jaquinot (Jean-Baptiste-Nicolas) - Colonel

1815: Dubessy (Jean-Baptiste) - Colonel

Of the above one Colonel became General-de-Brigade.

Dermontcourt, (Paul-Ferdinand-Stanislas)

Born: 3 March 1771
Colonel: 9 October 1811

General de Brigade: 22 July 1813

Commandant of the Legion d'Honneur: 4 December 1813

Baron of the Empire: 16 September 1808

Died: 10 May 1847

Colonels killed and wounded while commanding the 1er Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers

None
Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1815

Officers killed: Eight
Officers died of wounds: Two

Officers wounded: Fifty-six

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: Smolensk and La Moskowa
1813: Dresden, Leipzig, and Hanau.

1814: Reims and Paris

1815: Waterloo

Battle Honours: None given.





2e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Created in 1811, from the 3e Regiment de Dragons.

Colonels

1812: Berruyer (Pierre-Marie-Auguste) - Colonel, had formerly been Colonel of the 3e Regiment de Dragons
1813: Joannes (Jean-Sylvestre) - Colonel

1814: Bouquerot des Essarts (Jean-Baptiste-Joseph) - Colonel

1814: Sourd (Jean-Baptiste-Joseph) - Colonel


http://www.napoleon-series.org/images/military/organization/2lancers.jpg
Trumpeter 2e Regiment
Compagnie d'Elite


Of the above officers one became General-de-Brigade

Berruyer, (Pierre-Marie-Auguste)

Born: 19 November 1780
Colonel: 1 January 1812

General de Brigade: 18 January 1814

Chevalier de l'Empire: 4 January 1811

Died: Mortally wounded 16 June 1815, Ligny.

Colonels killed and wounded while commanding the 2e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers

Colonel Berruyer: Wounded 18 November 1812
Colonel Sourd: Wounded 17 June 1815

Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1815

Officers killed: Seven
Officers died of wounds: Five

Officers wounded: Fifty-one

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: Moskowa, Winkowo, Beresina, and Wilna
1813: Buntzlau, Katzbach, Bischoffswerda, Weimar, Francfort, Hanau, and Mayence

1814: Rothiere, Montmirail, Vauchamps, Bar-sur-Aube, Troyes, Craonne, Villenauxe, and Fere-Champenoise

1815: Genappes and Waterloo

Battle Honours: None given



3e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Created in 1811, from the 8e Regiment de Dragons.

Colonels

1811: Lebrun (Alexandre-Louis-Jules)
1813: Hatry (Charles-Joseph)

1814: d'Hautefeuille (Eugene-Gabriel-Louis-Texier)

1815: Martique (Charles-Francois)

None of the 3e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers Colonels went on to become Generals

Colonels killed and wounded while commanding the 3e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers

Colonel Lebrun: Killed 26 October 1812
Colonel Hatry: 14 October 1813

Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1815

Officers killed: Nine
Officers died of wounds: None

Officers wounded: Thirty-six

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: Polotsk and La Beresina
1813: Bautzen, Reichenbach, Dresden, Leipzig, and Hanau

1814: Champaubert, Vauchamps, and Troyes

1815: Ligny and Waterloo

Battle Honours

Polotsk 1812, Bautzen 1813, Dresde 1813 and Champaubert 1814


4e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Created in 1811, from the 9e Regiment de Dragons.

Colonels

1811: Deschamps (Jean-Louis-Charles Guenon)
1815: Bro (Louis)

None of the above attained the rank of General-de-Brigade

Colonels killed and wounded while commanding the 4e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers

Colonel Bro: Wounded 18 June 1815
Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1815

Officers Killed: Six
Officers died of wounds: Four

Officers wounded: Twenty-six

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: La Moskowa, Mojaisk, and Winkowo
1813: Leipzig and Hanau

1814: Champaubert and Vauchamps

1815: Waterloo and Fleurus

Battle Honours

La Moskowa 1812, Hanau 1813, Vauchamps 1814, and Fleurus 1815


5e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Created in 1811, formed from the 10e Regiment de Dragons.

Colonels

1811: Chabert (Francois-Felicite)
None of the above attained the rank of General-de-Brigade

Colonels killed and wounded while in command of the 5e Regiment de Chevau-Legers- Lanciers

None
Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1815

Officers killed: Four
Officers died of wounds: None

Officers wounded: Thirty-nine

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: La Moskowa and Winkowo
1813: Wachau and Hanau.

1814: Montmirail

1815: Ligny and Waterloo

Battle Honours

La Moskowa 1812, Bautzen 1813, Dresde 1813, and Champaubert 1814


6e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Created in 1811, formed from the 29e Regiment de Dragons which itself had been formed from the 11e Regiment de Hussards by the decree of 21 September 1803.

Colonels

1811: Avice (Jacques-Phiippe) - Colonel Avice had the distinction of being Chef-de- Brigade of the 11e Regiment de Hussards, Colonel of the 29 Regiment de Dragons, and Colonel of the 6e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers.
1811: Marbeuf (Laurent-Francois-Marie)

1813: Perquit (?)

1813: De Galbois (Nicolas-Marie-Mathurin)

http://www.napoleon-series.org/images/military/organization/6lancers.jpg
Trumpeter
6e Regiment



One of the above Colonels reached the rank of General-de-Brigade

Avice, (Jacques-Philippe)

Born: 27 November 1759
Colonel: Originaly Chef-de-Brigade of the 11e Regiment de Hussards, 26 June 1793. Upon the Regiment becoming the 29e Regiment de Dragons, on 24 October 1803, Avice carried on as its Colonel and became Colonel of the 6e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers in 1811.

General de Brigade: 6 August 1811

Commandant of the Legion d'Honneur: 23 August 1813

Baron of the Empire: March 1808

Died: 26 October 1835

Colonels killed and wounded while commanding the 6e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers

Colonel De Marbouf: Wounded 14 August 1812, died of wounds 25 November 1812
Colonel De Galbois: Wounded 16 June 1815

Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1815

Officers killed: Five
Officers died of wounds: Five

Officers wounded: Fifty-eight

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: Krasnoe, Smolensk, Valoutina, La Moskowa, Wiasma, and La Beresina
1813: Jauer, Leipzig, and Hanau

1814: Champaubert, Montmirail, Vauchamps, Arcis-sur-Aube, and Saint-Dizier

1815: Fleurus and Waterloo

Battle Honours

La Moskowa 1812, Hanau 1813, Champaubert 1814, and Fleurus 1815


7e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Created from the 1er Regiment de Vistula Lanciers in 1811, amalgamated with the 8e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers on 19 January 1814.

http://www.napoleon-series.org/images/military/organization/7lancers.jpg
Trumpeter
7e Regiment



Colonels

1811: Stokowski (Ignace-Ferdinand)
1813: Tanski (Casimir-Alexandre)

None of the above attained the rank of General

Colonels killed and wounded while commanding the 7e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers

Colonel Stokowski: Wounded 9 June 1813
Colonel Tanski: Wounded 26 August 1813

Officer killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811 - 1815

Officers Killed: Five
Officers died of wounds: One

Officers wounded: Thirty-one

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1811: Spain
1812: No specific actions given

1813: Magdebourg, Dresden, Naumbourg, and Hanau

1814: Montereau, Neuilly-Saint-Front, Chalons, and Chartres

Battle Honours: None given



8e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Formed by decree of 18 June 1811 with the 2e Regiment de Vistula Lanciers which had been formed at Sedan on 27 May 1811. On 19 January 1814, the 8e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers were incorporated into the 7e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers.

Colonels

1811: Lubienski (Thomas) - Colonel
Colonel Lubienski had the distinction of reaching the rank of General

Lubienski, (Thomas)

Born: 24 November 1784
Colonel: 18 June 1811 and Colonel of the combined 7e and 8e Regiments de Chevau-Legers- Lanciers on the 19 January 1814

General-de-Brigade: 15 March 1814

Officer of the Legion d'Honneur: 22 July 1807

Baron of the Empire: 13th February 1811

Died: 27 August 1870

Colonel Lubienski had the good fortune to recieve no wounds while in command of the Regiment.

Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1815

Officers killed: Two
Officers died of wounds: One

Officers wounded: Thirty-three

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: Jakubowo, Polotsk, and La Beresina
1813: Lutzen, Bautzen, Dresden, and Leipzig

1814: Champaubert

Battle Honours

Polostk 1812, Bautzen 1813, Dresde 1813, and Champaubert 1814


9e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers
Formed by decree of 18 June 1811 with the 30e Regiment de Chasseurs a Cheval, which had been formed at Hambourg by decree of 3 February 1811.

Colonels

1811: Gobrecht (Martin-Charles) - Colonel
1813: Fredro (Jean-Maximillien) - Colonel

One of the above attained the rank of General-de-Brigade

Gobrecht, (Martin-Charles)

Born: 11 November 1772
Colonel: 14 March 1811

General-de-Brigade: 18 July 1813

Baron of the Empire: 3 July 1813

Died: 7 June 1845

Colonels killed and wounded while commanding the 9e Regiment de Chevau-Legers-Lanciers

Colonel Fredro: Wounded 30 August 1813, Kulm
Officers killed and wounded while serving with the Regiment during the period 1811-1814

Officers killed: Fourteen
Officers died of wounds: One

Officers wounded: Fifty-four

Regimental war record (Battles and Combats)

1812: Witepsk, Ostrowno, La Moskowa, and La Beresina
1813: Mockern and Kulm

1814: Vauchamps

Battle Honours: None given.

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/c_lancers.html

[Chasseur_Alpin]

http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard_garde/lancierrougetrompette.gif
i think this one is lituanian.

[Rantanplan]

1811, lancers:
6 french regiment, 2 polish, 1 german...

and this one? :lol:
http://www.demisoldepress.com/images/print256.jpg

and this one?
http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard_garde/lancierrougetoff.gif


1st Chevau-leger (Polish Lancers)
http://www.demisoldepress.com/images/print256.jpg

2nd Chevau-leger (Dutch or "Red" Lancers)

Http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard_garde/lancierrougetoff.gif

[Chasseur_Alpin]

rantanplan,
did you take part in a reconstitution?

[Macs.]

rantanplan,
did you take part in a reconstitution?

He did take part in the real war.

[Rantanplan]

http://www.histoiredumonde.net/images/1er_empire/hussard_garde/lancierrougetrompette.gif
i think this one is lituanian.

No, this is a Trumpeter of the 2nd Chevau-leger (Dutch or "Red" Lancers).

Look at the Uniform Plate that I posted


http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Rantanplan/111111111N32.jpg

[Chasseur_Alpin]

****, I schearch a lancer of the 3rd regiment (lituanian)!

[Rantanplan]

Tartares lithuaniens de la Garde Impériale

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/napoleon/ltar3ecl.jpg

[Chasseur_Alpin]

oh yes thanx!
lithuaniens in 1814
in 1813 there are in green and yellow i think.

[Rantanplan]

http://www.histofig.com/history/empire/uniformes/france/francegarde_11.jpg

[Rantanplan]

This print of a Lithuanian Tartar is based on Knotel. It is done in a romantic nineteenth century style but is nevertheless reasonably accurate. This print represents the glorious, action-filled life of the soldier that was used to recruit young men to a life or work, boredom and (usually) an early death. The horses have that wild galop that clears the ground ready for takeoff, something done by horses only in art.

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/napoleon/ltarknot.jpg

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/napoleon/ltartoff.jpghttp://www.antiquesatoz.com/napoleon/ltaror.jpg

On the left are the uniform and furnishings of an officer of the Lituanian Tartars, and on the right those of an enlisted man.This print shows the Tartars in action in the winter, the season they campaigned in most during their brief existence. The uniforms are a melange of styles but give a pretty good feel for the colorful effect Napoleonic uniforms gave in the field.

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/napoleon/ltarsnow.jpg

[Piotrek]

Sorry guys but there were some battles that happen where only victors talked about what had happen afterwords, they can lie or tell the truth but as it is right not not one can say 100% of anything.

There were some cases where they did charge, but after seeing a bigger picture pun on the brakes and reatreated only being shot in the back.

Can u point any sources of this claims?

Not on internet.
School back in Russia in the late 80's......... And one program on History channel, forgot the title of it, also my grandfather also said that thy tried similar charges against Russians in 1939 (he was actally there)....Sorry Polish guys he did what he was orderd to do or he would have gotten a bullet himself.

According to this side (http://www.kawaleria2rp.horsesport.pl/szarze.htm) there was charge against russians soldiers (near Husynne - mayby Your grandfather was there) - against russian infanty witch was forced to withdrawal but after russian tanks joined the battle our cavalry withdrawal - You should see the difference between charging unprepared infantry (or even dig in infantry but form unexpected direction) and between charging tanks - the second thing never took place!!
So - once again - ther were very few polish charges during September Campaign (1939) - most of them against unprepared infantry, some to fight way through german units during besiege of Warsaw ( this charge is known thanks to Mario Appelius relation..polish losses during the charge about 20%), ther were also cases when polish cavalry started the charge against infantry but during the battle other forces joined in and our cavalry was forced to withdrawal but there were no charges on tanks.

ps. no need to sorry about Your grandfather - he was a soldier on the war and had to do what he was orderd to.

[Sixgun Symphony]

.. They used horses only for transpotation and fighted dismounted and in whole 1939 war there is only one known exampe when they charged while being on horses.


To ride to battle and then dismount to fight best describes a dragoon.

[Marmot1]

.. They used horses only for transpotation and fighted dismounted and in whole 1939 war there is only one known exampe when they charged while being on horses.


To ride to battle and then dismount to fight best describes a dragoon.

Well yes but "Ulan" was historically rooted and thus old name was left.

Here are some photos of equipment
Bofors 37mm (at this time capable to penetrate all german tanks armour) we had 1200.
http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinAT/finatgun/bofors37mus.jpg
http://www.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~bolas/main/uzbrojenie/armpol/bofors37mm.jpg
http://www.wp39.punkt.pl/wp/wp39/uzbr/art/zdjecia/37wz36a.jpg
http://www.wp39.punkt.pl/wp/wp39/uzbr/art/zdjecia/37wz36.jpg


AT RIFLE
http://piechur.fm.interia.pl/bron/karppanc35.jpg

One more photo of bofors...
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/brashco/images/37mm.jpg

Sergiey... I have seen couple of history books from '50 '60 '70 '80 they are not reliable belive me... In one book there was even information that on 17 sept 1939 Poland attacked Soviet Union (sic!) and SU invaded poland in self defence, in another there was info that in '30 poland was a fasisc state..., other one stated that Katyń murder was of course performed by germans (this one is quite interesting since some mass graves of polish soldiers were found on terrain that was never ocupied by germans...) Back in 50's polish history book for schools were written by russian autors and then translated (!!!) so probably you had the same type of BS that was in our history books...

[Rantanplan]

http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/images/kawaler2.jpg

The assault by a Polish mounted brigade against a column of infantry and motors - only a fragment of the fight against the German invasion in 1939 - was executed in the glorious tradition of the horse cavalry's saber-wielding charge.

The account I am going to give you is of a cavalry charge in which I took part at the very beginning of World War II in September, 1939, in Poland. Although it all happened 59 years ago, it now seems like a century away! It may well be that this attack will rank in the history of warfare as the last great charge of cavalry. Is there another chance of the whole cavalry brigade, sword in hand, obeying the order "Gallop, march!"? The old Marshal Semion Budenny, former commander of the Soviet First Cavalry Army during the Civil War, would not agree with this. (In 1967, during an interview with The New York Times correspondent in Moscow, the old retired marshal, who is over 80 and still rides horses every day, was asked: " What role do you think cavalry will play during the next war? "Decisive!" answered Budenny without hesitation.)

My story is a fragment of the fight the Polish armed forces put up, defending their country against the German invasion in September of 1939. I was a platoon commander in the 3rd squadron, 3rd Light Horse regiment. My place was on the extreme left of the charge, so that I was able to see the whole mass of men and horses wheel around to the gallop. A grand spectacle, never to be forgotten.

The Suwalki Cavalry Brigade, stationed at the frontier of East Prussia, near the border of Lithuania, was composed of three cavalry regiments, one artillery regiment, and a group of light armored cars. Since September 1, it had been fighting night and day on the right flank of the Narew army group, whose task it was to stop the left flank of General von Kuechler's army, pressing on Warsaw from East Prussia.

The group was pushed back by the sheer weight of German firepower and armor. The brigade, being more mobile than our infantry, and assigned to the right wing of the Narew group, was less affected by the initial German push; consequently, we had relatively small losses during the first days of fighting.

Early on September 7, the brigade still stood almost 40 miles from the border of East Prussia. It was fighting a defensive battle against a light German army group, reinforced by the East Prussian cavalry division, which was the only great cavalry unit the Germans possessed at the time.

The advantage of numerical superiority was definitely with the invaders. All we could throw in against their hundreds of tanks were about 20 light armored scout cars and two dozen antitank guns. In firepower, the Germans had a superiority of about nine to one. It seemed, therefore, that the Germans, because of their superiority in firepower and armor, would cut through the live mass of Polish cavalry like a knife through a loaf of bread.

And yet, in spite of this unequal struggle, we refused to give up. We were fully aware of the fact that we had to adapt ourselves to new methods of warfare.

After all, we had to make the best conditions imposed on us by war, not of our seeking. Each day, our techniques of fighting the enemy hiding behind armor improved. It was a technique of pursuit, of ambush, and of ruses.

A machine that looked formidable at a distance began to show, especially at night, its impotence against daredevils who had the nerve to approach the tanks and throw gasoline-filled bottles. Others crept up to wreck the caterpillar treads of these tanks with bunches of hand grenades. During the first week, our antitank guns destroyed 31 enemy armored vehicles. We smashed at least a dozen of them with bottles and grenades. We took over 200 prisoners.

Thus, step by step, from a proud cavalry brigade we had turned into an outfit of tank hunters. By night we lost ourselves in woods and marched over trackless ground to harass the enemy's armored columns at rest stops or on the march.

We realized, however, that in the long run, it was all hopeless. The numbers and the firepower were against us. Moreover, the beautiful, sunny weather seemed to be conspiring with the invaders, helping the speedy progress of their armor facilitating the bombardment.

The news grew steadily worse. On the evening of September 8, we heard over the radio that the Germans were closing in on Warsaw. We resolved to do our duty, come what might. Most of the time we were hungry, and for a week we had about three hours' sleep at night. Our poor horses, those beautiful chestnut horses of which we were so proud, could not be unsaddled for days on end. With fodder growing scarce, they were becoming dispirited and vicious, sheer skeletons.

One desire was uppermost in our minds, and we discussed it in our short talks at officers' roll calls. Should modern warfare depose the cavalry, then we would make a dignified exit after just one more glorious tradition of our cavalry.

Suddenly, on September 9, we received the following order: "To relieve German pressure on Warsaw and to give the capital time to organize its defenses, the Suwalki Brigade will make a diversion on the enemy's rear, blow up the bridge over the Narew River, near Tykocin, and tear up the railway track between the stations of Rypno and Fastow." At the officers' roll call, the tall, gray-haired, taciturn brigade Commander, General Podhorski, told us:

"Gentlemen, we have received an important assignment. We are to sabotage the enemy communications. To execute our task, we must march all night over the field-paths and avoid main highways, and penetrate behind the enemy lines to reach the region of Tykocin. When on the spot, the engineering squadron will proceed with the wrecking jobs as ordered, while the rest of the brigade will act as a covering screen. Once the assignment is executed, we shall head eastward and plunge into the Bialowieza Forest. From then on we shall wage partisan warfare."

Dead tired though we were, the news electrified us. The order of the brigadier was received with joy by officers and men alike. We felt that finally we would have the chance for action as a body of cavalry in a task for which we had been trained.

On that very day, we made four ambushes against tanks and fought two skirmishes. We had little more than two hours of sleep.

We moved off around 7p.m., after the sun set. Regiment after regiment, squadron after squadron, marched at a trot before our brigadier, a smart, proud, gray-haired veteran of the last war, as he reviewed his decimated, but still brigade. It was a grueling all-night march over broken ground, through thickets and over rugged terrain. We were protected by a dense screen of patrols, but we avoided human settlements, cut across roads, and stuck to the forests and untraveled ground.

On September 9, an early dawn, misty and chilly, found the brigade at the northern edge of the large Zambrow forest, eight to nine miles from the bridge that we had to blow up.

It was almost 6a.m. when the patrols suddenly reported to the brigadier a startling piece of intelligence: a battalion of enemy infantry was marching along the highway between Rypno and Fastow.

Our sentries did not see any patrols, but reported that a column of transport trucks was moving parallel with the infantry. What an unexpected chance!

The brigade commander was hard put for a decision. We were hidden in the woods about a mile and a half from the enemy. The condition for a surprise attack seemed ideal. It was now or never. On the other hand the risk was great. An attack by the entire brigade was bound to betray our purpose.

Moreover, the firepower of a German infantry battalion was superior to that of our brigade. They seemed to have no armor but our patrols might have been mistaken.

After a few moments of hesitation our commander made up his mind. He stopped his brigade and reversed the direction of our march. We briskly crossed the strip of woods separating us from the enemy. Our three regiments assembled at the edge of the woods. Between the enemy column on the highway and us ran a strip of stubble field over a mile long. Close by the highway was a stretch of dry meadowland.

Since we stood on higher ground, we saw plainly what went on the highway. What a magnificent sight! A long sprent of troops wound its way lazily through a cloud of dust, while the motor transport swiftly flowed by the slowly marching infantry.

The brigadier's command came fast: "The 1st Lancer regiment and the 3rd Light Horse regiment prepare for a charge. The 2nd Lancer regiment will be in reserve. The brigade's heavy machine-gun squadrons will get together and support the charge with their massed fire.

The antitank squadron will screen the brigade from the west against a possible tank attack. The German's armor might be in the vicinity. Meanwhile, the engineering squadron is to take advantage of the charge to reach the bridge and the railway track as quickly as possible and blow them up."

The regimental commanders promptly carried out their respective orders. The squadron pushed ahead to the edge of the forest, while the engineering squadron left us to do their job. We could watch it marching off at a brisk trot.

Meanwhile, the squadrons stretched out in attack formation on the open field beyond the forest. The command "Trot, march" rang out. The enemy had not yet seen us, and the rising sun promised a clear day. The picture of the regiment emerging from the woods was so enchanting that it seemed unreal. What a perfect model for a battle painter! Where is our Vernet or Gericault! First we proceeded at a slow trot. The Germans still marched on, apparently unconcerned. Then suddenly our heavy machine-guns, hidden in the woods, gave tongue with a well-timed salvo. It went straight into the enemy column.

The great adventure was on!

The command "Draw sabres, gallop, march!" flew down the lines. Reins were gripped tighter. The riders bent forward in the saddles and they rushed forward like a mad whirlwind.

Meanwhile, the surprised serpent of enemy infantry on the highway stopped. Soon the road became a scene of wild confusion. There were shouts, confused orders, and chance shots. We, however, continued our gallop. Fortunately, the first German shots went over our heads. We were then about 1500 feet from the highway and saw that under fire of our heavy machine-guns the Germans were becoming a frantic mob. Some enemy armored cars stopped, while others tried to ram their way through the confusion. Some of the enemy soldiers made a desperate attempt to make a stand in the ditch by the roadside. Other sought cover behind the transport wagons.

Suddenly the fire from machine-guns began to score hits in our ranks. The van of the column, which had been nearing Rypno, seem to have mastered its panic; soon its fire began to tell. The first casualties fell from horses. We were then so close that we could see vague outlines of men in the cloud of dust. Suddenly our machine-guns ceased firing. They had to do it to avoid hitting us. Meanwhile, within a few seconds we reached the highway.

Sabres and lances went to work fiercely. Some confused German infantrymen pushed off our sabre blows with their rifle butts. Some simply tried to cover their heads with their arms, but our lances reached even those who tried to hide between the wagons.

The wave of our charge crossed the highway and pursued those who sought flight. Stray shots from the thickets kept falling into the mob on the highway, killing the enemy as well as us. The battle on the highway was practically over. The Germans began to surrender in large groups. A squadron of the 2nd Lancer regiment, which so far formed our reserve, was dispatched in pursuit of the fleeing enemy.

We were out of breath and dog-tired, but elated by the dreamed-up victory. Moreover, it was paid for with no great loss of life. The panic-stricken Germans were decidedly poor marksmen. The horses fared the worst; we lost between 30 and 40 of them. We had a score or so of wounded men, but only three were killed. The morning sun was high when our bugler blew assembly. We came up slowly, driving our prisoners ahead of us. We took about 200 men, most of them insane from fright. The villages of Rypno and Fastow were aflame. They belched dense clouds of black smoke, which lazily rose to the morning sky. In withdrawing, the remnants of the German battalion did not miss the chance to set the torch to two innocent villages. Then, suddenly, from the north a sound of an explosion could be heard. In a few minutes there came another, and after a while two more shook the air. This was the signal that our engineers had done their job. The bridge over the Narew and the railway track had been blown up.

M. Kamil DZIEWANOWSKI Is a professor emeritus of Contemporary Russian and East European History at Boston University and Associate of the Russian Research Center at Harvard. He has published several books:

The Communist Party of Poland - An Outline of History, Harvard University Press, 1959 and 1976

1. A European Federalist - Joseph Pilsudski and Eastern Europe, 1918-1922, Hoover Institution, 19693. 20th Centry Poland, Columbia University Press, 1977 and 1979
2. A History of Soviet Russia, Prentice Hall, 1979, 1984, 1988, 1992, and in 1996 under a new title
3. A History of Soviet Russia and its Aftermath.
4. War at Any Price: A History of WWII in Europe, Prentice Hall, 1987, 1990
5. Alexander I - Russia's Mysterious Tsar, Hippocrene Books, 1990
6. One Life is not Enough, Marszalek, Torun, 1994 (in Polish)

His article makes clear that he was a junior officer in the Polish cavalry at the beginning of the Second World War and participated in the cavalry charge he describes.

http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/images/kawaler1.jpg

http://www.polishnews.com/fulltext/history/2001/history4.shtml

[wholagun]

Husaria: the Commonwealth's "Tanks" [refering to the Polish Lituanitan Commonwealth which was one of the biggest nations in Europe at that time]

http://www.imageshack.us/files2/husaria.jpg

There was a huge sound of a collision then, like a toppling mountain, and then a vast ringing as if a thousand blacksmiths were beating on their anvils. We looked again and—dear God alive!—the Elector's men were all down and trampled like a wheat field scoured by a hurricane, and they… the husaria… were already far beyond them, with lance pennons flickering…

Next they struck the Swedes. One regiment of Reiters went down like grass before a scythe. Another went under. …They charged the Swedish infantry. They broke them. They shattered them. Everything fled before them, scattering like chaff! Everything was tumbling back, running and recoiling! The whole Swedish army split apart before them and they charged down that gaping avenue like an avalanche. Nothing could stop them! They cut through half of the enemy's battle line. And then they ran into the Swedish Horse Guards where Carolus [King Charles Gustav] and his staff were standing… And, I tell you, it was as if a windstorm had whirled in among those Guardsmen and carried them away…!


Henryk Sienkiewicz, The Deluge (Kuniczak translation), pp. 815-816


The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was more than three centuries ahead of armored-warfare exponents like George S. Patton Jr., Erwin Rommel, and Heinz Guderian. It was two centuries ahead of the famous Russian marshal Aleksandr V. Suvorov in the development of mobile warfare and the advocacy of decisive shock battle.

The husaria (Hussars) were the Commonwealth's equivalent of tanks. This was not because of their armor (medieval knights were even more heavily-protected) but rather because of their tactics. Descriptions of Hussar engagements suggest that they sought to break through and overrun enemy units instead of engaging in melee (as is normally shown in cavalry engagements in movies). The "overrun attack" (a variant of Suvorov's "attack through") was later adopted by tank commanders. Another use of modern armor is to get into the enemy's rear areas and wreak havoc there. Per Adam Zamoyski's The Polish Way (p. 154), the Poles would often send cavalry in arcs of up to a thousand miles behind the enemy lines. (These were not necessarily Husaria; they could easily have been lighter-armed riders.)

Hussar weapons reinforce the conclusion that the attack through, as opposed to melee, was the principal tactic. The koncerz and pallasz (see below) lacked cutting edges and they were so long as to be unsuitable for epee-type fencing. They were instead used as secondary "lances" after the Hussar expended his long kopia. A Hussar would not have wanted to stop and use either of these weapons to fence with his opponent; he'd probably want to attempt to hit while passing at a full charge, which is how the attack through works. The Husaria did of course carry sabres (the szabla) that could be used in a melee.

Armor and Uniform
The Hussar's protection consisted of half-armor (helmet and cuirass) or three-quarter-armor (helmet, cuirass, upper leg armor, and some protection for the arms). Two unique elements of the Hussar uniform were a cape made from a leopard, wolf, or tiger fur, and a pair of wooden frames that held an impressive array of feathers. Their purpose was apparently to frighten enemy horses. One can speculate, for example, that horses would be instinctively terrified of the residual odor (if downwind) and the appearance of a wolf or leopard fur. The wings' appearance also was unusual and they were said to emit a terrifying hiss as the wind rushed through them. The Poles' own horses were, of course, accustomed to these things. The Poles also knew of lariat-wielding steppe horsemen and it was very difficult to get a lasso around the wings.

Weapons
Armament consisted of the szabla, a curved Polish sabre that Zamoyski (p. 155) describes as "the finest cutting instrument ever in use in a European army." It originated in the East and was modified by the Hungarians, who also were known for their superb cavalry. The Poles then made further improvements during the sixteenth century. Each Hussar also carried a pair of wheellock pistols and possibly a bow. Far from being a primitive weapon in comparison to contemporary firearms, the bow was a high-skill weapon whose rate of fire was much higher than that of any musket. Armies used muskets instead of bows because it took years of training to create, for example, the kind of archers who won the Battle of Agincourt in 1415. You could, on the other hand, go into a low-class tavern, recruit what the Duke of Wellington called "the scum of the earth" for a shilling a day, and turn them into passable musketeers in a few weeks. The Husaria also used three weapons of uniquely Commonwealth origin:

The front rank of a hussar Banner (squadron) wielded the kopia, an 18-20 foot lance that could outreach infantry pikes. Its hollow cross section made it light enough to carry and use effectively. It often broke with a solid hit, but not usually before piercing its target's armor and body. It was fairly expensive and, although the szlachta who became Hussars were expected to provide their own equipment, the government paid for the lances.
The secondary koncerz and pallasz were straight armor-piercing swords with sabre grips. The koncerz was about 4 feet long and the pallasz was as tall as a man. This suggests that they were used like lances for an "attack through" as opposed to fencing with opponents in a melee.
The Husaria also used the czekan (or obuch), a long steel hammer with a back spike "which could go through heads and helmets like butter."

Horses
Medieval knights in full armor could not move very quickly, especially since the giant draft horses they rode (e.g. Percheron, Clydesdale breeds) also wore armor. The Husaria wore up to three-quarter armor but they could charge at a full gallop. The Polish horse was bred for speed and endurance, and Zamoyski (p. 155) writes that Polish cavalry could travel 120 kilometers per day without killing the horses. (He does not say, however, if these were light cavalry or Husaria.) The Poles also adopted the Eastern saddle, which was easier on the horse. Furthermore, I read somewhere (I am still looking for a reference) that the Poles invented the posting or rising trot, which is more comfortable for both horse and rider than the more dignified sitting trot.

[wholagun]

Polish Soccer fans wearing the wings

http://www.husaria.org/viewimg.php?img=04&m=2
http://www.husaria.org/viewimg.php?img=34&m=3
http://www.husaria.org/viewimg.php?img=32&m=3

sorry I tried making them images but it would not work, but click on them and have a look its kinda funny.

[wholagun]

**** I can't find the site that shows pics of thier lancers so I'll explain it to you guys in hopes of finding the pics at a later time.

The lacers were longer then any infantry men or any cavalry in any European army at the time. The secret behind thier long lancers was the fact that the wood of the land was drilled and in its stead was put pot ash to give it strenth again but at the same time make it much longer. Had the lacer been of solid wood it woud be too heavy to hold.

Give me some time in trying to locate the pics. ah I found it finally


The Hungarian lance is the prototype of the Polish hussar’s lance. The Hungarian lance was over 3 meters in length, light and slender. The lance was most often carved from fir-wood, as was the big wooden ball that served as the handle guard. The hussar's lance was from 4.5 to 5.5. M in length. It enabled the hussar to overreach western infantry pikes ( which were always under 5 meters). This extraordinary length was achieved by boring out the core of the lance from the point to the ball.







The boring was executed by cutting the lance in half, hollowing out each side, and gluing the halves together later. This joint was often reinforced with a string webbing, overwhich tar was poured. Aspen was used for the fore part of the lance, which is light, ‘crumbly’ (I have heard this term to describe good violin wood)
and easy to carve and bore; it was superbly suitable for this purpose.


The lace point is steel - most often with a silk banner just below. The point was supported with additional metal reinforcing straps running down the shaft, which also helped protect the wood below the point from a sabre cut.

Pennants for the lances were usually uniform for the whole troop - called 'banner', e.g. white -red, blue -green, black -white etc. They might have one point or two.

Length of the pennants totaled ( 2.5-3.5m), so that they reached the ears of the horses. Besides being beautiful decoration, these has several functions. They served as a distinctive sign (setting each banner apart ). They could also panic their opponents' horses, if they were not used to the dramatic sight and sounds. For long marches, the lances were transported in wagons, but during parades or in combat formation, the base of the lance was place in the ‘tuleja’ a metal cup attached by leather straps to the saddle. This way, the hussar was freed from the weight of the lance, which was born by the horse.

When holding the lance during an attack in a horizontal position under the armpit, the hussar most often first extracted the lance from the tuleja. But some sources indicate that even in this position it could be kept in the tuleja. This would give a range of benefits especially, transmitting the momentum of the horse via the saddle into the lance, so the force of the blow would not be limited by the hussar’s strength.

The Lance - as alluded to above - was a basic weapon of the hussar. However, it was a one-use weapon that broke in the attack. For this reason, and because it was a very expensive weapon, it was the only weapon furnished by the military authorities. (Each lancer was supplied with three lances. Normally, only the 'companion' (file leader in the first rank) used the lance, and if the retainer in the second rank carried a lance it was for the companion, to replace a lance broken in a previous charge.)

Lances were sometimes created for special purposes, in addition to the ordinary hussar’s lance. They might be called fancy dress lances. They served at special openings, parades, reviews etc. They were very richly furnished e.g. with an eagle feather motive.



http://www.imageshack.us/files1/pikinierzyNew.gif

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Krojanty - najs?awniejsza szar?a kawalerii
Szar?a dywizjonu 18. Pu?ku U?anów Pomorskich p?k Kazimierza Mastalerza (1. szw., 2. szw., po jednym plutonie z 3. i 4. szw.) mia?a na celu powstrzymanie natarcia nieprzyjaciela w kierunku na Brd? dla umo?liwienia wycofania si? z zagro?onych pozycji w?asnej piechocie z Grupy Operacyjnej "Czersk".

1-go wrze?nia o godzine 14:00 piechota rozpocze?a przepraw? przez Brd?. Dywizjon polskiej kawalerii w liczbie oko?o 300 ?o?nierzy wykonuj?c manewr okr??aj?cy wyszed? na ty?y skrzyd?a niemieckiej 2. Dywizji Piechoty Zmotoryzowanej i zaskoczy? podczas odpoczynku oko?o 800 osobowy oddzia? tej jednostki. Polacy ruszyli do ataku. Niemcy ponie?li ci??kie straty, ca?kowitego rozbicia unikn?li jednak dzi?ki ogniowi broni maszynowej transporterów ubezpieczaj?cych ich postój z pobliskiego lasu. Transportery by?y zamaskowane i dlatego nie dostrze?ono ich wcze?niej. St?d wzie?a si? propagowana przez Niemców opowie?? o szar?y polskiej kawalerii na czo?gi.

Podczas szar?y poleg? dowódca pu?ku u?anów p?k Kazimierz Mastalerz, dowódca 1. szwadronu rtm. Eugeniusz ?wie?ciak, ppor. Milicki, ppor. Unrung oraz 25 u?anów. Dzia?ania polskiej kawalerii na ty?ach niemieckich jednostek wywo?a?y silne zaniepokojenie w ich dowództwach. Niemcy nawet na pewien czas wstrzymali natarcie na ca?ej linii.

In English:
Krojanty- the most famous charge of Polish cavalry.
The puropse of the charge of a squadron from 18. Pomeranian Ulans Reg. was to stop enemy attack on the Brda River and cover the withdrawal of infantry form TF "Czersk"

On 1st September at 14:00 infantry started to ford the Brda River. Squadron of Polish cavalry (300 men) crossed the German lines and suprised German motorised unit on camp. Poles started the charge. Germans took heavy loses. Charge was stopped by heavy MG fire from German armored cars hidden in nearby forest, Poles withdrawn. German war correspondents present at the camp started to write ubout 'foolish polish cavalrymen' charging on German tanks. Polish losses: 4 offcers & 25 cavalrymen. Actions of Polish cavalry upset the German commanders, the attack on Brda River was stopped. So, the Krojanty charge was a success.

[yeah I know that my English is poor :D ]

[Marmot1]

Polish Soccer fans wearing the wings

http://www.husaria.org/viewimg.php?img=04&m=2
http://www.husaria.org/viewimg.php?img=34&m=3
http://www.husaria.org/viewimg.php?img=32&m=3

sorry I tried making them images but it would not work, but click on them and have a look its kinda funny.

I will try... ;)

Ooooo... it works.. :lol:

http://www.husaria.org/nasze_zdjecia/polska-belgia/pol-bel32.jpg
http://www.husaria.org/nasze_zdjecia/polska-belgia/pol-bel34.jpg
http://www.husaria.org/nasze_zdjecia/polska-estonia/pol-est04.jpg

[Maciek]

Again there is controversy about Polish cavalry in 1939 and German tanks.

It was in 19-9-1939. A big group of 14 regiment Jazłowieckich lancers and a smoll unit from 9 regiment Małopolskich lancers near Wólka Węglowa was ordered to break down to Warsaw.

Italian war-correspondent, Mario Appelius, being the observer of charge described her in following way:" Suddenly heroic team of cavalrymen's in strength about a couple of hundred horses appeared in gallop from overgrown. They atacked having in centre unrolled flag...[according to report of corporal. Maziarskiego they were only staffs of flag put out from case bands the Virtuti Militari cross] All the German machine-guns calmed down and only cannons shot. Their fire created firewall on space 300 metres before German lines. Polish cavalrymen charge whole speed like on mediaeval paintings! Commander on front gallopped with upraised sabre.You could see the distance diminished among Polish cavalrymen's group and wall of German fire.It was madness continue with this charge on meeting of death. And however the Polish passed".

105 KIA, 100 WIA in this charge .
that is 20% of the group
cavalerymen that has been captured and admit to take part in the charge (the Gremans make promises that they will be able to go home) were murdered


The propaganda BS was supported by the communists governments (Polish, USSR,...) to justify the Soviet aggression: "the Soviets entered Poland to protect soviet minority"

[1st US winged hussar]

Sorry I missed this entire thread, wasn't yet a member when it was current, and brought to my attention afterwards...I also noticed quite a few images uh, er...'ahem', 'borrowed' from our website materials...Proper credit due, would have been most welcomed...
Have you see this guy?:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=hussar

[1st US winged hussar]

Here's a few more of great interest:
http://photos.yahoo.com/wngdhussr
and:
http://www.militariashow.com/gallery.html

[MalteseFalcon]

Question how this Polish Cavarly fair againest the Cossacks and also did the poles ever war againest the Ottoman empire

[1st US winged hussar]

Your question could best be answered by going back to the top of this sthred, on page 1 of the discussion. There is much of the information there. Depending on the specific battle, the Poles fared well, and sometimes not so well. Against the Turks the same reply, however the Turkish were finally stopped at the 1683 Battle of Vienna, where the Turks were routed off the field after heavy fighting and the winged hussars charged right into them, overrunning the Sultan's tent and entire camp.
I hope that helps.

[1st US winged hussar]

Your questions could best be answered by going back to the top of this thread on page 1 of this discussion. The Poles usually fared well, against both Cossacks and Turks, depending on the battle, however they were beaten at a select few battles as well. The Turks were finally stopped athe Battle of Vienna in 1683, and the winged hussars charged right into and overran the Turkish camp. I enjoy portraying my ancestral heritage as the first Polish winged hussar in America.
I hope that helps.

[1st US winged hussar]

Here's another very cool link to modern Polish Winged Hussar re-enactment, being presented by the *First* Polish Winged Hussar in the U.S.:
http://www.frappr.com/?a=myphotos&id=371835

Got it down. Period.
Enjoy.

[Thor]

Between first half of XVI century (1514 battle of Orsza) to the end of XVII century (1683 battle of Vienna) Poland had the best cavalry unit in history of civilisation.
Aaah, the old mp.net anno 2004. Home of all kinds of divine truths... :)

[Musashi]

Aaah, the old mp.net anno 2004. Home of all kinds of divine truths... :)
So what do you have to propose instead?

[Eye]

Don't you know mates where in the internet can I find some good quality graphics with hussar's flag? I'd like to order such flag in real size. Something like that below, but in better quality.
http://www.jest.art.pl/rchor1.jpg

[shadowsrider]

Question how this Polish Cavarly fair againest the Cossacks and also did the poles ever war againest the Ottoman empire

Despite the common picture of mounted Cossack unit (XIX century in fact) the best Cossack units of the XVII century was infantry and sharpshooters.
The cavalry was very poor and some chronicles wrote that 200 well trained Polish riders could beat 2000 of Cossack cavalry.

But the shooters were a nightmare for Poles. Cossacks developed tactics of mobile fortifications and their shooting training was excellent. One of the chronicles says: "While our Germans are shooting a salvo: 1 bullet of 100 hits, when Cossacks are shooting 50 of 100 hit the target". (Germans was Polish infantry of German type or German mercenaries).

Cossack uprisings became finally succesful when they combined excellent infantry with cavalry of Golden Orde which finally could balance Polish superiority in cavalry tactics.
Succesful battles were won because young Polish commander did not use Hussars correctly and they fought ... dismounted (Hussars charge in Fire and Sword movie was beautiful but did not take place in reality).

When left by their ally Cossacks again could not assemble a force able to withstand Hussars and lighter Polish cavalry and were finally beaten. Their cavalry was poorly equipped and had no comparable organization nor tactics while Hussars tactics was very sofisticated and the equipment was excellent.


As for Ottoman cavalry it was much better than Cossack's. But the battles were won by Ottomans mainly by good infantry and engineering. When it came to cavalry combat like in Battle of Vienna or Battle of Chocim when Hussars had the chance to mount a strike it was usually devastating.
The only empire that succesfully fought with Hussars were Swedes.

[shadowsrider]

And interesting fact: Hussars were fighting WITHOUT the wings. They were used for parades only.

[Musashi]

The only empire that succesfully fought with Hussars were Swedes.
With combination of arms (infantry plus cavalry or infantry plus artillery). After some time they improved their muskets and their infantry was able to shoot any cavalry off.
On another side I don't remember any instance of their cavalry beating our winged hussars without a support of other arms.

[Switek]

And interesting fact: Hussars were fighting WITHOUT the wings. They were used for parades only.


You've made me disappointed... ;)

[Domen]

And interesting fact: Hussars were fighting WITHOUT the wings. They were used for parades only.

In fact it is not known.

Hard to say if they fought with or without wings.

By the way - below some links to many interesting, well-done articles (in English):

"How the Hussars fought?" by Radoslaw Sikora:

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/HowHussarFought.htm

Construction / design / history of Winged Hussars' long lance:

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/lance.htm

Some interesting information about the horrible cost of training / equipping / financing this formation (Winged Hussars):

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/high_price_of_glory.htm

The battle of Warsaw 1656 - the unexploited breakthrough charge of Hussaria:

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/Warsaw.htm

Interesting description of Polish-Lithuanian military formations:

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/more_xvii_century_polish_militar.htm

In 16th - early 17th centuries Polish-Lithuanian infantry was among the best European ones:



Infantry:
"Similar principles obtained in the infantry. Lightly dressed, without helmets or armour, the soldiers were armed with a musket, short sword and hatchet. Only one man in eight carried a pike. In the 1550s, a Polish regiment of 200 men could deliver 150 shots in five minutes, while contemporary Spanish brigades of 10,000 men operating in the Netherlands could only deliver 750 in the same time. Polish infantry possessed ten times greater fire-power on a man-to-man basis than standard European infantries."


About Polish-Lithuanian artillery in 16th - 17th centuries:

Polish-Lithuanian artillery was also among the best ones - along with Swedish artillery. What is interesting is that during the Siege of Jasna Gora Monastery during the 2nd Northern War Swedish forces were using captured Polish-Lithuanian guns against Polish defenders! :) :

Another interesting information is that among the forces which were besieging the monastery ethnic Swedes were minority! - most of those soldiers were Polish-Lithuanian traitors of the motherland or German mercenaries!:


Zamoyski describes artillery:
"The Poles set great store by artillery, and in this they were in advance of their enemies until the eighteenth century. They preferred lighter cannon to heavy pieces, purposeful direction to saturation bombardment and mobility to numbers. At Kircholm in 1610, Chodkiewicz defeated the Swedes with only four cannon, at Klushino in 1610 Zolkiewski had only two. From the Turks the Poles learnt much about incendiary and explosive shells, and they themselves developed rocketry to great effect. They had a number of good theoreticians, most notably Kazimierz Siemienowicz, whose influential treatise on multi-stage rocketry was published in 1650; and outstanding commanders, such as Marcin Kantski, who alone of all the allied generals managed to bring his guns to bear at the relief of Vienna in 1683."


About Polish-Lithuanian noble, first European pioneer of rocketry and the man who had great impact / influence on development of modern artillery:

His most important work was "Artis Magnae Artilleriae Pars Prima" published in many languages along the whole Europe!:

In Polish:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz

In English:

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/Siem.htm

http://www.brown.edu/Facilities/University_Library/exhibits/Fireworks/4.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Siemienowicz

And finally the main page of this website - links to the whole bunch of very interesting articles, photos, sources, maps, etc. are provided there:

http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/PolishHorseArtillery.htm

Article about the battle of Beresteczko (the biggest battle of Poland-Lithuania versus Cossacks wars - and Polish-Lithuanian victory):

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161302

One of great victories of prince Jeremi Wisniowiecki - battle of Konstantynow in 1648:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161302

Hope you find these links interesting sources of information.

And here is the thread about Polish-Lithuanian - Swedish batttles during the war of 1599 - 1611:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161302

/ Domen

[Domen]

After some time they improved their muskets and their infantry was able to shoot any cavalry off.

In fact it was not so easy. Well-trained cavalry was not easy to "shoot off" because muskets were simply not so powerful:

What about infantry fire attack rating, efficiency and accuracy? - here is some interesting data & facts:

From: 'Weapons & Warfare in Renaissance Europe' by Bert S. Hall - about infantry fire efficiency in Napoleonic Era and a little before it:

'Eleazar Mauvillon, who seems to have seen the Prussian data, calculed that some 650 000 rounds were fired at Chotusitz , where approximately 2500 Austrians died and a like number were wounded. This yield a ratio of 260 bullets (roughly 15 lbs. of lead) per death, including deaths caused by artillery and bayonets.'

'Such poor figures were consistent with the findings of other armies in the period.'

'Benton noted in 1862 that "the number of cartridges expended for each person disabled in previous European wars has been variously stated to be from 3000 to 10 000." Others were even more pessimistic, citing a maxim apparently current in France late in the eighteenth century to the effect that to kill a man in battle required shooting at him seven times his weight in lead.'

"Even as late as Waterloo (1815) the word of command for British infantry about to give fire was not 'aim' but 'level'"

According to Burton, around 3,000 to 10,000 shots were need to kill 1 soldier on the battlefield. And there were also more pesimistic people.

According to French researches from 18th century - to kill one men in the battle from muskeet fire at those times, you needed to shot amount of bullets which weight was 7-times greater than the weight of this killed men.

According to R. Henegan the British infantry at Vittoria fired on average 459 rounds for 1 French casualty. (Henegan - "Seven Years' Campaigning in the Peninsula and the Netherlands", pp 344-345)

From the article "musket Accuracy":



According to Guibert only 0.2 % of all shots hit the target. (All shots means all shots, not just only the battalion salvos at 50 paces described in some memoirs. Up to 20 % of all shots were misfires, many troops fired at too long distance, some of the lightly wounded went uncounted, part of ammunition nominally fired was thrown away by soldiers etc. etc.)

Gassendi calculated that [B]only 1 shot in 3.000 resulted in casulty.

Hughes calculated for Albuera, for several volleys at 100 yards the British achieved 5 % ratio of casualties.

During Revolutionary War General Duhesme found his battalion firing at Austrian battalion at 100 paces. It was a lengthy firefight and Duhesme expected heavy casualties, he was however very surprised, there were only 3-4 men hit.

Napier claimed that in Spain he witnessed volleys fired by British infantry where out of 300 musketballs fired none hit the target.

At Vittoria, the British infantry had on average 1 hit in 459 shots fired. I assume that the ratio for French infantry was lower, as they had much less training.

In 1813 at Gohrde 66 French infantrymen fired at 60-80 paces at Germans hiting 27 Hannoverians and Bremen-Verden (40 % hits). It was known and tested that the most effective was the first volley, the next salvos were usually much worse. In this case the count is only for one volley at close range.

In 1813 at Dennewitz a single squadron of Prussian Brandenburg Dragoons attacked a French battalion formed in square. The infantry delivered volley at 30 paces killing 23 horses and 7 men, and wounding 18 horses and 21 men. It seems poor accuracy but the horse could take several bullets before being killed. So the number of hits was probably higher than actual casualties.

Eighty dragoons were untouched by the musketry.

Cavalrymen were smaller targets than horses, and they ducked under fire. It made them even smaller targets.

Mark Adkin calculated the effectiveness of muskets at Waterloo. He wrote that in the prolonged fighting for Hougoumont "it took 224 French musket shots to secure a hit. This is not such a poor performance as it seems. Most defenders (Germans and Brits) were behind cover of some sort for much of the time, if only a hedge or a tree. The majority were behind brick walls."


The efficiency of fire WAS HIGHER DURING TRAINING in peaceful nearbyhood (and by best-trained snipers) THAN DURING THE BATTLE CHAOS - according to "Imperial Bayonets" by George Nafziger:

Hittings get per 200 shots while shoting to a target of a size of the company of Infantry (so very big, huge target):

Kind of Muskeet - distance in yards:

Distances are as follows: 80 / 160 / 240 / 320 (yards):

1. Prussian Musket - model 1782: 80 yards - 92 hits the target (92 of 200) / 160 yards - 64 hits / 240 yards - 64 hits / 320 yards - 42 hits

2. Old Prussian with bend flask - 150 (hits) / 100 / 68 / 42
3. Nothardt from 1805 - 145 / 97 / 56 / 67
4. New Prussian, model 1809 - 153 / 113 / 70 / 42
5. French Charville from 1777 - 151 / 99 / 53 / 55
6. British "Brown Bess" - 94 / 116 / 75 / 55

Surprisingly high comparing to those previous battle-statistics - peacfull area + best shoters + training field - these are probably reasons.

And there is also another thing which was decreasing musket accuracy - if infantry is fireing to charging cavalry from a distance shorter than around 40 metres, their chances for hiding behind Pikemen before being slaughtered are close to 0%.

Different situation is when they have bayonets - then they can fight on their own against cavalry in close-combat.

Coming back to Hussaria - it was attacking in loose formation untill it was around 60 metres from the enemy - then, it was starting to narrow their formation, and 40 metres from the enemy narrowing was completed in around 33%.

Just before they hit into enemy lines, the second line was to join the first line - when two enemies were crushing, Hussaria was in "Knee to Knee" formation which was very narrow - 1,5 Hussars spear lances per 1 Infantry pike - that means Hussaria had "numerical superiority" in the place when it charged. And Hussars spare lance was also longer than infantry pike - unfortunately the first line was losing their spare lances after the first crush - each spare lances was almost always breaking after hit - then the first line was fighting with normal lances or Koncerze (kind of rapier) and the other lines were charging with spare lances against the other lines of infantry.

If it comes to cavalry versus musket infantry - cavalry HAD TO persist the first salvo, didn't matter how big casualties were in the first line (usually the first line was suffering quite big casualties in horses and soldiers dead or wounded during the first salvo). It was the matter of psyhological resistance of soldiers, not the matter of musket bullets "stopping" cavalry in physical meaning of this word (so: obliterating it).

[shadowsrider]

Ok you've posted so many links that I find you more competent person than me :)
Hussars fighting without wings is Szymon Kobylinski opinion.

[Domen]

But it is not so easy to judge, because some other historians (for example Radek Sikora) claim that they were using wings during combats - at least during some combats. Radek writes that they were useful against Tatars - they were protecting a rider from Tatar's arkan (kind of lasso).