View Full Version : Britsh Guantanamo Bay detainees released without charge
All the repatriated "detainees" have now been released, without charge.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3500156.stm
I don't know about all of them but the first one released was arrested in afghanistan in a taliban prison, where he was being held because they suspected he was a british spy!
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 10:06 PM
I don't know about all of them but the first one released was arrested in afghanistan in a taliban prison, where he was being held because they suspected he was a british spy!
If so, then it was a snafu.
More than likely, they were released because they hold British passports.
The situation would be akin to the RUC capturing an Irish-American fighting alongside the Provos in N.I. Both governments would be embarrassed and the usuall bunch of marxist creeps in the street would start a campaign to get him release.
George W. Bush
03-10-2004, 10:07 PM
No doubt because the British pressured us.
I don't know about all of them but the first one released was arrested in afghanistan in a taliban prison, where he was being held because they suspected he was a british spy!
If so, then it was a snafu.
More than likely, they were released because they hold British passports.
snafu?
they still have 4 brits in guantanamo, these ones were released because they were not guilty of anything, if they were the US and/or the UK would prosecute them.
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 10:12 PM
snafu?
they still have 4 brits in guantanamo, these ones were released because they were not guilty of anything, if they were the US and/or the UK would prosecute them.
The situation would be akin to the RUC capturing an Irish-American fighting alongside the Provos in N.I. Both governments would be embarrassed and the usuall bunch of marxist creeps in the street would start a campaign to get him released.
snafu?
they still have 4 brits in guantanamo, these ones were released because they were not guilty of anything, if they were the US and/or the UK would prosecute them.
The situation would be akin to the RUC capturing an Irish-American fighting alongside the Provos in N.I. Both governments would be embarrassed and the usuall bunch of marxist creeps in the street would start a campaign to get him released.
so why not relese all of them, and while release a load of afghanis first?
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 10:19 PM
so why not relese all of them, and while release a load of afghanis first?
Now we get to the heart of the matter, these assclowns want us to let all of these terrorists go.
Yup, the are all innocent and the US really had it coming on 911.
Well **** you Cut. I say we hang the bastards first and I don't give a rats ass what passport they might have. Especially when your government and so many other European states gives them out to asylum seekers like candy on Halloween!
so why not relese all of them, and while release a load of afghanis first?
Now we get to the heart of the matter, these clowns want us to let these terrorists go.
Yup, the are all innocent and the US really had it coming on 911.
Well f*** you Cut.
I meant the remaining brits, in response to you saying it was due to British pressure. I did not mean all of the detainees.
they are not all terrorists, no doubt many are, but at the moment the US DoJ has said that until anything is proved they are protected by the presumption of innocents surely, if they are released it means that they are not terrorists, and they no longer have information useful to US/UK intelligence.
so **** you sixgun p-)
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 10:26 PM
All right, now I know what you are saying.
Even a spy gets a trial. But man I really don't want to hear these peaceniks whine when we hang the guilty ones.
Maybe if you caught that Irishman with the US passport, then maybe you could feel what I do.
Nope, we have forgiven you for the support you gave the IRA, and even helped you when you wanted to take out your own terrorists, there is no reason for you to hate us.
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 10:32 PM
Maybe if you caught that Irishman with the US passport, then maybe you could feel what I do.
Nope, we have forgiven you for the support you gave the IRA, and even helped you when you wanted to take out your own terrorists, there is no reason for you to hate us.
When has it been official US policy to support the IRA? The actions of some Irish diaspora here in the states do not have the support of the US gov't. Nor do their actions in support of IRA have the popular support of a mostly protestant USA for that matter.
(edited to focus)
Maybe if you caught that Irishman with the US passport, then maybe you could feel what I do.
Nope, we have forgiven you for the support you gave the IRA, and even helped you when you wanted to take out your own terrorists, there is no reason for you to hate us.
When has it been official US policy to support the IRA? The actions of Irish in diaspora here in the states do not reflect the policies of the US, nor the popular opinion here for that matter.
when it comes to terrorism I think if you let it population sponsor it then that equates to supporting the terrorist, and I think George W. Bush would agree, as long as we weren't talking about the US of course :D
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 10:38 PM
So you are saying that the US gov't and the American people have been allowing the supporters of the IRA to openly support them with money and munitions?
I don't think so.
A few coffeeshop marxists and some Irish diaspora in Boston do not make a broad base of support for their movement. Most Americans of Irish ancestry don't like the IRA.
My opinion of the IRA is that they are more communist than nationalist.
That supporters of the IRA have given then arms and money to the IRA is illegal and done covertly.
usa320
03-10-2004, 10:41 PM
This thread got gay- fast.
If you ask me, if these guys got released then there must have been reason so.
However thats not to say that the rest of the people there are equally innocent.
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 10:45 PM
Innocent my ass.
AK-Lover
03-10-2004, 11:12 PM
It would be just easier to shoot them all! ;)
Sixgun Symphony
03-10-2004, 11:25 PM
It would be just easier to shoot them all! ;)
I have simmered down enough to say that a trial should come first.
This thread got gay- fast.
If you ask me, if these guys got released then there must have been reason so.
However thats not to say that the rest of the people there are equally innocent.
I agree totally on both counts, and never intentionally suggested otherwise
Sixgun Symphony
03-11-2004, 12:35 AM
This thread got gay- fast.
If you ask me, if these guys got released then there must have been reason so.
However thats not to say that the rest of the people there are equally innocent.
I agree totally on both counts, and never intentionally suggested otherwise
I am sorry for misinterpreting your words and losing my temper.
This thread got gay- fast.
If you ask me, if these guys got released then there must have been reason so.
However thats not to say that the rest of the people there are equally innocent.
I agree totally on both counts, and never intentionally suggested otherwise
I am sorry for misinterpreting your words and losing my temper.
ditto
steel bonnet
03-11-2004, 01:35 AM
Well l for one am worried they have all been released.
After all one of them was "SUPPOSED" to be in Pakistan for a Computer course/Tech course.
Why leave the UK to go there? Surely he`s education would have been better suited & More complete here in the UK.
Also if in Pakistan for a course,why was he in Stan?? Not exactly the Tourist spot of that region is it.
Then you have 3 all from the same area. Oh yea a coincidence my foot.
Our Goverment yet again showed itself for what it really is,Whimpering Cowards,scared to take any HARD stance,for fear of being called RASCISTS.
That`s what it boils down too. With that,we`ll have terrorists running free amoungst us continually,unless there WHITE terrorists of course,then it`ll be ok to deal out justice.
Oh l also agree,we`re handing out passports willy nilly to any bugger who wants one.
Yes there a just cases,though how come most seem to be Young men in the late teens -30s. Haven`t got the balls to get the women & children out first.If there was a true reason to "FLEE".
Ja
Steel Bonnet
Apparently they are all going to sell their stories so we'll find out eventually
martinexsquaddie
03-11-2004, 02:05 AM
thats the problem with gitmo it looks dodgy
are they dangerous foaming at the mouth steely eyed killers?
as the US would like everybody to belive
or are they foot soldiers who were to slow to leg it and people the locals wanted out the way.
any trial there given has got to be open or the USA is just going to dig itself a bigger hole.
Would somebody please bring back the real hexnut. I mean, first, he pops off at the mouth with some BS. That I expect. Then, he flies off the handle, that I also expect. Then he apologizes? WTF? Hexnut, if you keep that up you might actully add something here instead of being a moron. :P
About these Brits. All detainess in Gitmo were supposed to have had info about the Taliban or 911. The only reason that they are in Gitmo was b/c we tried keeping them in Astan and you see what happened. The DoD chose Gitmo b/c there is an old SC case that says that enemy combatants held outside sovereign US territory do not have constitutional rights (4th A, counsel right, also habea corpus). It was simply easy to hold them there, on Cuban sovereign territory, rather than Astan where they had freinds who might try a jailbreak.
As for the IRA - cut we have a document called a constitution that says that US citizens have the right to support whoever they want. It has never been a US policy to suppot IRA. As hexnut pointed out - it just so happens that some Irish Americans want to see a unified Ireland. But, don't blame all of us for supporting IRA. I don't think you do.
hank
marktigger
03-11-2004, 09:46 AM
Nope, we have forgiven you for the support you gave the IRA
_________________
Have we? lot of people in Northern Ireland have a great deal of sympathy for America following 9-11. But we still see what Irish Americans did and are still doing to encourage terrorism in my part of the world.
Nope, we have forgiven you for the support you gave the IRA
_________________
Have we? lot of people in Northern Ireland have a great deal of sympathy for America following 9-11. But we still see what Irish Americans did and are still doing to encourage terrorism in my part of the world.
I've been bribed
Sixgun Symphony
03-11-2004, 02:46 PM
Nope, we have forgiven you for the support you gave the IRA
_________________
Have we? lot of people in Northern Ireland have a great deal of sympathy for America following 9-11. But we still see what Irish Americans did and are still doing to encourage terrorism in my part of the world.
Again, That is a minority of Irish diaspora and some coffeeshop marxists. They are not the majority here. Many Americans of Irish ancestry might feel something for Irish nationalism, but they do not support the terrorists.
Any support for the IRA here in the states has been underground. Smuggling weapons to N.I. would break both US and UK laws. Those who smuggle weapons to the Provos are outlaws and their network is underground like the narco-smugglers.
Again, That is a minority of Irish diaspora and some coffeeshop marxists. They are not the majority here. Many Americans of Irish ancestry might feel something for Irish nationalism, but they do not support the terrorists.
Guess what..the small group of terrorist supporters... IT'S ALMOST THE SAME WITH MUSLIM EXTREMISM.. DUH!! Talk about double ****ing standards...
mustamato
03-11-2004, 03:46 PM
http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/0302/12/GHEZALI.jpg
Mehdi Ghezali, Swedish citizen, born
and raised in Sweden and held in Guantanamo
... according to the Americans he refuses to "co-operate", which I assume
means that he doesn´t want to sign any confessions of "conspiracy to kill
Americans". What he is held for is very unclear, he was arrested by some
local mujahediins and sold to the Americans, his mom is Finnish so I guess
they just considered him as a foreigner. Swedish TV travelled to Afghanistan
and made a documentary about the circumstances, they interviewed amongst
else the men at the Pakistani border that captured him, the only reason seems
to have been that he was a foreigner. Foreigner = Al-Qaeda :roll:
Since he doesn´t confess to the accusations I guess he will never be released,
he is one of the main reasons to my anti-americanism.
Again, That is a minority of Irish diaspora and some coffeeshop marxists. They are not the majority here. Many Americans of Irish ancestry might feel something for Irish nationalism, but they do not support the terrorists.
Guess what..the small group of terrorist supporters... IT'S ALMOST THE SAME WITH MUSLIM EXTREMISM.. DUH!! Talk about double f*** standards...
That's quite a weak argument. Give us one example of a muslim nation that's been attacked by the US where the government of that nation did not support terrorism, but was just rather a "small group of supporters".
The difference is, the governments of the countries America has attacked openly and officially support terrorism.
Whereas, it has been said already, the IRA is not supported in any way by the US government, nor has it been.
Give us a real debate instead of blind anti-Americanism.
... according to the Americans he refuses to "co-operate", which I assume
means that he doesn´t want to sign any confessions of "conspiracy to kill
Americans". What he is held for is very unclear, he was arrested by some
local mujahediins and sold to the Americans, his mom is Finnish so I guess
they just considered him as a foreigner. Swedish TV travelled to Afghanistan
and made a documentary about the circumstances, they interviewed amongst
else the men at the Pakistani border that captured him, the only reason seems
to have been that he was a foreigner. Foreigner = Al-Qaeda
Since he doesn´t confess to the accusations I guess he will never be released,
he is one of the main reasons to my anti-americanism.
Interesting. I have honestly not heard of this. Do you know why he was in Afghanistan?
That's quite a weak argument. Give us one example of a muslim nation that's been attacked by the US where the government of that nation did not support terrorism, but was just rather a "small group of supporters".
The difference is, the governments of the countries America has attacked openly and officially support terrorism.
Whereas, it has been said already, the IRA is not supported in any way by the US government, nor has it been.
Give us a real debate instead of blind anti-Americanism.
It wasn't anti-Americanism as it wasn't a remark directed at the US foreign policy, it was directed at Sixguns own rather remarkable opinions.
Sixgun Symphony
03-11-2004, 07:10 PM
What he is held for is very unclear, .
He is being held because he is a muslim terrorist. That is mother happens to be Swedish is irrelevent.
Sixgun Symphony
03-11-2004, 07:14 PM
That's quite a weak argument. Give us one example of a muslim nation that's been attacked by the US where the government of that nation did not support terrorism, but was just rather a "small group of supporters".
The difference is, the governments of the countries America has attacked openly and officially support terrorism.
Whereas, it has been said already, the IRA is not supported in any way by the US government, nor has it been.
Give us a real debate instead of blind anti-Americanism.
It wasn't anti-Americanism as it wasn't a remark directed at the US foreign policy, it was directed at Sixguns own rather remarkable opinions.
Bull****,
You are anti-American, your posts have been anti-American, and you have compared the US to terrorist rogue states.
That's quite a weak argument. Give us one example of a muslim nation that's been attacked by the US where the government of that nation did not support terrorism, but was just rather a "small group of supporters".
The difference is, the governments of the countries America has attacked openly and officially support terrorism.
Whereas, it has been said already, the IRA is not supported in any way by the US government, nor has it been.
Give us a real debate instead of blind anti-Americanism.
It wasn't anti-Americanism as it wasn't a remark directed at the US foreign policy, it was directed at Sixguns own rather remarkable opinions.
Bull****,
You are anti-American, your posts have been anti-American, and you have compared the US to terrorist rogue states.
Eh?! Pulling crap outta our arses again are we? The only thing I got against the US is their foreign policy as of late... that's all. As for the anti-American crap, that's mustamatos and ducimus' department.
Sixgun Symphony
03-11-2004, 07:28 PM
You compared the US to terrorist states right here on this thread and you deny it?
What a piece of work you are! :bash:
mustamato
03-11-2004, 07:38 PM
... according to the Americans he refuses to "co-operate", which I assume
means that he doesn´t want to sign any confessions of "conspiracy to kill
Americans". What he is held for is very unclear, he was arrested by some
local mujahediins and sold to the Americans, his mom is Finnish so I guess
they just considered him as a foreigner. Swedish TV travelled to Afghanistan
and made a documentary about the circumstances, they interviewed amongst
else the men at the Pakistani border that captured him, the only reason seems
to have been that he was a foreigner. Foreigner = Al-Qaeda
Since he doesn´t confess to the accusations I guess he will never be released,
he is one of the main reasons to my anti-americanism.
Interesting. I have honestly not heard of this. Do you know why he was in Afghanistan?
Well having a Afghani father and a Finnish mother in Sweden would probably
make anyone feel like that Sweden is not your home. He obviously wanted
to come in contact with his "roots", and having a Afghani father I don´t think
he needs any other excuse to have been in Afghanistan. There is no case against
him. He has become more or less a martyr here in Sweden for all what US
policy is these days.
http://www.dewaarheid.nu/okt01/stockholm.jpg
His father during a protest in Stockholm against US
http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/co/11621/11621_5.jpg
Eh?! Pulling crap outta our arses again are we? The only thing I got against the US is their foreign policy as of late... that's all. As for the anti-American crap, that's mustamatos and ducimus' department.
I think that counts as anti-Americanism my friend.
Dude, are you ****ing RETARDED?!?!?! I made exactely TWO posts in this thread. One was the response, to Fox2, and the other was commenting on YOUR different approach to Irish terrorist support and Muslim terrorist support.
Now refit the ****ing screws...
Ichhabe
03-11-2004, 07:45 PM
There were also some of the Northern Alliance-people that saw the oportunity to solve their neighbouring problems and at the same time earn some quick buck by selling them to the US. Forces.
Some other got their competers in business out of the way and in the same time taking over their shops by saying that they were either Taliban or Al-Qaida.
Haiw, I apologize. Perhaps saying that your statement was anti-American was the wrong word.
The point I was trying to make was not really personally insult you, rather, point out that the argument you were making did not hold up.
So, again, sorry if I flew off the handle there a bit.
Guess what..the small group of terrorist supporters... IT'S ALMOST THE SAME WITH MUSLIM EXTREMISM.. DUH!! Talk about double f*** standards...
The problem with this argument, mainly, is that it is not even close to the same. The governments of Afghanistan and Iraq officially and openly supported terrorism. This can't be analgous to the United States supporting the IRA, because, simply put, the US government does not and has never supported the IRA. The majority would see the IRA on the same level as Al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, or Hetzbullah.
Even in the moderate Islamic states (some of which are our allies), how many times have you heard muslims say, "Well, you know, terrorism is bad, but the US had it coming. I don't like that civilians were killed, but hey, the US got punched in the face, and that helps me sleep better at night."
Now, how many Americans have you heard say "Well, the IRA is bad, but hell, the British got punched in the face, and that makes me feel all good inside."
The latter is not heard anywhere near the percentage the former does. Infact, the latter is almost nil. Whereas the former I have personally heard many times in face-to-face conversations with Muslims.
Anyway, to make a long post even longer; the eency tweency minority in the States that supported the IRA is not analogous to official government support (and even state-sponsored) terrorism.
And my closing statement: All terrorists are created equal; they are all equally scum and they should all be killed in equally horrid ways.
Sixgun Symphony
03-11-2004, 08:51 PM
This whole thread just goes to show that the extreme Left in Europe are in sympathy with the Islamic terrorists.
lol and only as much as it shows that your views are that of all americans
Marmot1
03-11-2004, 09:25 PM
WTF ???!!!??? US - UK flame war ???!!!???
and I was sure this is reserved only to eastern europeans :lol:
Just to be clear...I do not wish to flame.
Just good debate, that's all. :D
*dons the flame retardant suit*
Just to be clear...I do not wish to flame.
Just good debate, that's all. :D
*dons the flame retardant suit*
same here, sixgun is a different matter though
Haiw, I apologize. Perhaps saying that your statement was anti-American was the wrong word.
The point I was trying to make was not really personally insult you, rather, point out that the argument you were making did not hold up.
So, again, sorry if I flew off the handle there a bit.
Guess what..the small group of terrorist supporters... IT'S ALMOST THE SAME WITH MUSLIM EXTREMISM.. DUH!! Talk about double f*** standards...
The problem with this argument, mainly, is that it is not even close to the same. The governments of Afghanistan and Iraq officially and openly supported terrorism. This can't be analgous to the United States supporting the IRA, because, simply put, the US government does not and has never supported the IRA. The majority would see the IRA on the same level as Al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, or Hetzbullah.
Even in the moderate Islamic states (some of which are our allies), how many times have you heard muslims say, "Well, you know, terrorism is bad, but the US had it coming. I don't like that civilians were killed, but hey, the US got punched in the face, and that helps me sleep better at night."
Now, how many Americans have you heard say "Well, the IRA is bad, but hell, the British got punched in the face, and that makes me feel all good inside."
The latter is not heard anywhere near the percentage the former does. Infact, the latter is almost nil. Whereas the former I have personally heard many times in face-to-face conversations with Muslims.
Anyway, to make a long post even longer; the eency tweency minority in the States that supported the IRA is not analogous to official government support (and even state-sponsored) terrorism.
And my closing statement: All terrorists are created equal; they are all equally scum and they should all be killed in equally horrid ways.
Hey, don't worry, no need to apologize; I can understand I wasn't too clear. So some extra explanation; I wasn't really talking about A'stan & Iraq either. I was talking about Sixguns rather generous list of terrorist supporters....
Chris1
03-12-2004, 04:47 PM
Sixgun and others, Armalites were bought in the US with collected money and in at least one case, money from a bank robbery in Northern Ireland.
There were no shady back room deals, they were bought legally and attempted to be shipped back to Northern Ireland
The smuggling of the weapons was illegal, the US have charged some Americans with doing so
However the men who supplied the money to buy the weapons are just as guilty as the bastard who pulled the trigger and left some young soldier lying on the ground dead.
Don't think it could happen?
http://www.noraid.com/
on topic
These men were released without charge.
This means there was little or no evidence to convict them of any crime
Terrorism is a crime.
It should be treated as such.
That means the supposed terrorist needs to be convicted in a court and sentanced according to the severity of their crime.
Since they were not charged they are, by simple logic, not guilty.
Unfortunately for you it seems, during the past couple of hundred years it is usually good form to prove someone has done something before hanging them.
Now, the other Britons held, we don't know what they have done.
As far as anyone here knows they could of killed Bambi's mother, or have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It is up to the US to charge them or release them
They are starting to charge people and they are starting to release people.
Good job
Well done to them
Labelling who they released as terrorists who deserve to be hanged is anti-american by your logic, since you are disagreeing with your countries policy.
Sixgun Symphony
03-12-2004, 04:58 PM
There were no shady back room deals, they were bought legally and attempted to be shipped back to Northern Ireland
They used "straw buyers" to acquire weapons and it is illegal for them to do so.
On the releases. I suspect that these guys were released because they just happened to have UK passports which created a political situation. If they were illegal, then what were they doing among Taliban and Al Qaida fighters? Know them by the company they keep.
Chris1
03-12-2004, 05:55 PM
thanks for the sensible reply
Fact is, we don't know what company they keep.
Same with the ones still there.
However they were released without charge by UK Police.
Being released by the US was political, they are British citizens after all.
However once they were returned to the UK they would be charged.
They were not.
The ones still there may very well be guilty, however if individuals informed in the circumstances of their capture came to the conclusion they were not guilty, I really don't see how I, not so informed, can make the assumption they were caught Kalashnikov in one hand and a signed confession in the other.
mmackem
03-12-2004, 07:15 PM
I am a British soldier and have no sympathy with terrorists but you cannot hold people indefinatly without trial, someone on this thread said they were being held because they were muslim terrorists. If that is the case provide the evidence, put them on trial, and execute them(I will happily tie the noose round there necks). If there is no evidence them you MUST (if you expect anybody to take this talk of America, Freedom, and Democracy seriously) let them go.
Some British prisoners are still at Gitmo, fine if they are guilty execute them. But the British men that have just been released, were innocent, that is why they were released. They were re-arrested as soon as they entered the UK and interogated, the British anti-terrorist branch and MI5 found there was no evidence against them and let them go after 3 days. The question is why did it take the US authoritys 2 years to work out they were innocent when it took the British authoritys 3 days?
Also when it comes to IRA terrorism I personally have had to dispose of a cache of IRA Armilites, and I tell you there is nothing more depressing than disposing of a IRA M-16 with 'Property of US Govt.' stamped on it. :(
Sixgun Symphony
03-12-2004, 07:19 PM
someone on this thread said they were being held because they were muslim terrorists. If that is the case provide the evidence, put them on trial, and execute them.
I will go with that.
However the men who supplied the money to buy the weapons are just as guilty as the bastard who pulled the trigger and left some young soldier lying on the ground dead.
Agreed.
The only point I was trying to make is that sort of support for terrorism is not comparable to the support that certain muslim nations give to islamic extremists.
Terrorists, whether they be IRA, Al-Qaeda, or neo-Nazis here in the 'States, need to be punished for what they do, no matter their nationality.
As for the British citizens released, I didn't really comment on them, because I imagine that if my government released them, they had a damned good reason to.
Flagg
03-12-2004, 09:24 PM
I am a British soldier and have no sympathy with terrorists but you cannot hold people indefinatly without trial, someone on this thread said they were being held because they were muslim terrorists. If that is the case provide the evidence, put them on trial, and execute them(I will happily tie the noose round there necks). If there is no evidence them you MUST (if you expect anybody to take this talk of America, Freedom, and Democracy seriously) let them go.
Some British prisoners are still at Gitmo, fine if they are guilty execute them. But the British men that have just been released, were innocent, that is why they were released. They were re-arrested as soon as they entered the UK and interogated, the British anti-terrorist branch and MI5 found there was no evidence against them and let them go after 3 days. The question is why did it take the US authoritys 2 years to work out they were innocent when it took the British authoritys 3 days?
Also when it comes to IRA terrorism I personally have had to dispose of a cache of IRA Armilites, and I tell you there is nothing more depressing than disposing of a IRA M-16 with 'Property of US Govt.' stamped on it.
Well done mate ;)
Flagg
03-12-2004, 09:28 PM
someone on this thread said they were being held because they were muslim terrorists. If that is the case provide the evidence, put them on trial, and execute them.
I will go with that.
If you could convince the other 275 million Americans to agree with you, then you will have reduced the US to the same level as the many opponents it has vanquished.
Congratulations.....Al Queda and their ilk have beaten you...by having you voluntarily relinquish and agree to a reduction of your rights as an American...and make you no better than them.
The sad part is you don't realise it.
Sixgun Symphony
03-12-2004, 10:48 PM
someone on this thread said they were being held because they were muslim terrorists. If that is the case provide the evidence, put them on trial, and execute them.
I will go with that.
If you could convince the other 275 million Americans to agree with you, then you will have reduced the US to the same level as the many opponents it has vanquished.
Congratulations.....Al Queda and their ilk have beaten you...by having you voluntarily relinquish and agree to a reduction of your rights as an American...and make you no better than them.
The sad part is you don't realise it.
Now you are talking trash.
So the foriegn terrorists are being interrogated at camp x-ray. What of it?
We get valuable information to catch their comrades.
Terrorists are illegal combantants, they don't have POW status. Go look at the laws of land warfare. No uniforms... spy! Spies are traditionally shot, yes?
Explain how the imprisonment of these FORIEGN terrorists affects the righs of American citizens?
someone on this thread said they were being held because they were muslim terrorists. If that is the case provide the evidence, put them on trial, and execute them.
I will go with that.
If you could convince the other 275 million Americans to agree with you, then you will have reduced the US to the same level as the many opponents it has vanquished.
Congratulations.....Al Queda and their ilk have beaten you...by having you voluntarily relinquish and agree to a reduction of your rights as an American...and make you no better than them.
The sad part is you don't realise it.
Now you are talking trash.
We have to put up with it everytime you post something
Sixgun Symphony
03-12-2004, 11:00 PM
We have to put up with it everytime you post something
I am just returning fire.
mocking_loudly_died
03-12-2004, 11:01 PM
I’m waiting for the day Sixgun finds himself a bell tower and fixes the worlds wrongs postal style.
Sixgun Symphony
03-12-2004, 11:13 PM
You are way out of line there.
mocking_loudly_died
03-12-2004, 11:34 PM
You are way out of line there.
Idealists regard everybody as equally corrupt, except themselves.
You're a big boy - deal with it.
Sixgun Symphony
03-12-2004, 11:48 PM
Sure we argue politics here and the flames go back and forth. But to say that I would go climb a bell tower and go postal is way, way out of line.
If you don't like what I have to say about politics or religion, then stand your ground and fire back with your own arguements. It seems you don't have any strong arguements if this sort of **** is all you can say.
James
03-13-2004, 12:00 AM
It would be just easier to shoot them all! ;)
I have simmered down enough to say that a trial should come first.
Are you feeling okay? That is very liberal for you. :P
Flagg
03-13-2004, 12:30 AM
So the foriegn terrorists are being interrogated at camp x-ray. What of it?
Any possibility one or a number of the folks held are innocent of any crime?
It would appear a number of UK citizens have been released due to lack of evidence
Terrorists are illegal combantants, they don't have POW status. Go look at the laws of land warfare. No uniforms... spy! Spies are traditionally shot, yes?
Yes they are.......executed like Skorzeny's commandos by American forces near the end of WWII.......but they were clearly identified combatants....can the same be said of EVERY individual held at Guantanamo? Doesn't sound like it.....see above
You still haven't answered the question:
What of the people wrongly implicated by McCarthyism in the 1950's?
The same question applies now:
What if overzealousness has resulted in one or more innocent people being held in Guantanamo?
It would appear several UK citizen/residents have been released due to lack of evidence......couldn't there be more?
How many innocent people wrongfully imprisoned is the War on Terror worth?
Explain how the imprisonment of these FORIEGN terrorists affects the righs of American citizens?
Ever human being...regardless of citizenship is entitled to fair and equal justice
We're the good guys....because of that, and the fact we are mostly on the defensive, defending against terrorist atacks...it means our job is more difficult than that of a nation with more "flexible" civil rights.
Making it "easier" by applying more flexible interpretations to fair and equal justice don't float with me.
Osama bin Ladin
03-13-2004, 12:34 AM
Crusader infidels,
There is no God but Allah. Your crimes against Allah's servants will not go unpunished!
mocking_loudly_died
03-13-2004, 12:54 AM
Sure we argue politics here and the flames go back and forth. But to say that I would go climb a bell tower and go postal is way, way out of line.
If you don't like what I have to say about politics or religion, then stand your ground and fire back with your own arguements. It seems you don't have any strong arguements if this sort of **** is all you can say.
No it’s not, it’s called taking the piss out of you and it’s a jolly new hobby that I relish.
Debating the all supreme right/left is the equivalent of digging the garden up for magic beans; it’s consistently a fruitless task. Your mindset is so ingrained towards hammering down perceived deity like judgements that any attempt to offer a realistic alternative will result in a negative achievement.
Hail to me as it suits us fine, now go and bake a cake to cheer yourself up.
I never expected sixgun of all people to be such a delicate flower.
...actually, USN right? All makes sense now ;)
Sixgun Symphony
03-13-2004, 01:07 AM
Just alot of bull**** AdHom attacks.
You don't have the intellectual prowess to debate.
Flagg
03-13-2004, 01:23 AM
Just alot of bull**** AdHom attacks.
AdHom..who da said what?!?
You don't have the intellectual prowess to debate.
Ready...willing...able......and to be honest......as a hawkish right winger....you seem to bring out the leftie in me.....
and I sincerely believe you avoid answering some difficult questions...
No it’s not, it’s called taking the piss out of you and it’s a jolly new hobby that I relish.
Debating the all supreme right/left is the equivalent of digging the garden up for magic beans; it’s consistently a fruitless task. Your mindset is so ingrained towards hammering down perceived deity like judgements that any attempt to offer a realistic alternative will result in a negative achievement.
Hail to me as it suits us fine, now go and bake a cake to cheer yourself up.
Thanks Mocking...for once again reminding me to not take this BS so seriously.....but some of these posters are begging for it
Sixgun Symphony
03-13-2004, 01:41 AM
Mocking Loudly makes adhom attacks because he does not have any real arguements.
You have not answered my questions. You make broad, nonsupported statements. In short, you are bull of B/S.
mocking_loudly_died
03-13-2004, 01:59 AM
Mocking Loudly makes adhom attacks because he does not have any real arguements.
You have not answered my questions. You make broad, nonsupported statements. In short, you are bull of B/S.
I can smile. And murder while I smile.
As previously stated my beloved Sixgun – I have no need to take you on in a masturbational battle of forum wits. Your ingrained ignorance is all the rebuttal that I need to muster, self-implosion is the most glorious of joys.
Hark!, for I hear a Nuremberg rally in your head – go forth young man and bore the masses.
von_Moo142
03-13-2004, 02:03 AM
It would do many people well to set aside political rhetoric here, IMO.
It would seem to me that the current situation, regarding the Gitmo prisoners, is couterprodutive for the US (and its allies).
Why should this be?
The "War on Terror" is important, right? Pretty much top priority defense wise for the USA and any number of other countries. I'm sure we all agree with the gist of that statement.
We have achieved some major goals in the fight against Al-Queda and chums. The ousting of the Taliban and destuction of AQ training camps, the breakup of several AQ aligned cells in Europe (and at least one in the USA), the elimination (by death or capture) of several AQ leadership elements, etc.
But, by acting, we also supply AQ and allied organisations with new recruits. In many ways this cannot be helped: there are always people who will hate the "West", and see nearly anything we do in a bad light.
However, holding the prisoners in Gitmo without any trial for so long just plays into AQs hands. It provides perfect recruitment material (the evil US, jailing innocent people, abusing human rights, etc) which provides another reason for someone to start listening to the AQ recruiters, and beliving the crap they peddle.
Why go through the sacrifices we have so far, only to comprimise ourselves after achieving so much? This is especially true for the US.
Plus, and this is equally important, holding the prisoners in this way puts uneeded pressure on the governments of many of Americas allies. This, of course, is why some prisoners were recently released.
The above argument doesn't even mention what should be obvious to us all: that to hold people without trial goes against all our values.
IMO, if the US really wants to fight AQ it cannot afford to be seen as unilateralist or isolationist. It is just as important for the US to secure and hold allies (and to not give propaganda to AQ), as it is to achive the destruction of AQ infrastructure.
Just my thoughts.
BTW, we tried this type of thing in the UK against the Provos. We called it internment, and whilst it achived things in the short term it was counterproductive in the long term.
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