Ex-Congressional Aide Charged With Spying, guess which party

[Sixgun Symphony]

Ex-Congressional Aide Charged With Spying


Mar 11, 12:45 PM (ET)

By LARRY NEUMEISTER

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA53CCCORD.html

NEW YORK (AP) - A former journalist and ex-congressional press secretary was arrested Thursday on charges she acted as an Iraqi spy before and after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, accepting $10,000 for her work, prosecutors said Thursday.

Susan Lindauer, 41, was arrested in her hometown of Takoma Park, Md., and was to appear in court later in the day in Baltimore, authorities in New York said.

She was accused of conspiring to act as a spy for the Iraqi Intelligence Service and with engaging in prohibited financial transactions involving the government of Iraq.

Lindauer worked at Fortune, U.S. News & World Report and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer before beginning her career as a political publicist. She worked for then U.S. Rep. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., before joining the office of former Illinois Sen. Carol Moseley-Braun as press secretary in 1996.

Chris Fitzgerald, a spokesman for Wyden, now a senator, said the office had heard Thursday of Lindauer's arrest and expected to issue a statement later in the day.

"She worked for us a short period of time," he said.

Moseley-Braun's current spokesperson, Loretta Kane, said the former senator does not remember Lindauer.



I hope they hang the bitch.

[California Joe]

Fine, hang her but for chrissakes give the political rhetoric a break.

[Mark Sman]

She worked for Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore. in 1993 and then Rep. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., in 1994 before joining the office of former Illinois Sen. Carol Moseley Braun as press secretary in 1996. From March to May 2002, she worked for Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif.

"Her position was eliminated in the downsizing following the 1994 elections," said Josh Kardon, chief of staff for now-Sen. Wyden. "She worked for us a short period of time."

Braun's current spokesperson, Loretta Kane, said the former senator does not remember Lindauer.


So either Susan Lindauer worked as press secretary for Braun for a short period of time, or Braun's memory is worse than Olly North. Hell, I'm sure even North could have told you who his PIO was when it all hit the fan.

As for leaving politics out of it, no way. Braun was listed on the ballot in my state as a candidate for President of the United States of America. As far as I'm concerned this puts her under a very bright light for scrutiny of her office and conduct..

Having a former aide arrested and charged with espionage falls under that category. If this was a story about "Neo-Con" members of the House and Senate this would be on the front page of every newspaper in the country and lead both the 6 and 11 p.m. newscasts.

[Salty Dog]

Fine, hang her but for chrissakes give the political rhetoric a break.

yeah sixgun, tone it down, stop with the "democrats are the devil blah blah blah" crap.

[Jacko]

NO! Democrats are evil! EEEEEVIIIIILLL! Devil, devil! Blllaaarrrgh!!

Phew.

There, now we can give it a rest, that should've finished this week's queue of democrat attacks. Obvious, overt, firebrand attacks are worth more than thinly veiled sardonic ones, y'know.

[11F5S]

She worked for Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore. in 1993 and then Rep. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., in 1994 before joining the office of former Illinois Sen. Carol Moseley Braun as press secretary in 1996. From March to May 2002, she worked for Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif.

"Her position was eliminated in the downsizing following the 1994 elections," said Josh Kardon, chief of staff for now-Sen. Wyden. "She worked for us a short period of time."

Braun's current spokesperson, Loretta Kane, said the former senator does not remember Lindauer.


So either Susan Lindauer worked as press secretary for Braun for a short period of time, or Braun's memory is worse than Olly North. Hell, I'm sure even North could have told you who his PIO was when it all hit the fan.

As for leaving politics out of it, no way. Braun was listed on the ballot in my state as a candidate for President of the United States of America. As far as I'm concerned this puts her under a very bright light for scrutiny of her office and conduct..

Having a former aide arrested and charged with espionage falls under that category. If this was a story about "Neo-Con" members of the House and Senate this would be on the front page of every newspaper in the country and lead both the 6 and 11 p.m. newscasts.


Susan Lindauer's Work Record
The woman charged with spying for the Iraqi Intelligence service spent the 1990s working on Capitol Hill.
by Katherine Mangu-Ward
03/11/2004 1:48:00 PM

ONE SUSAN LINDAUER was arrested today on charges that she acted as a spy for the Iraqi Intelligence service, and accepted $10,000 for the information she gathered. See the full story here.

Lindauer is identified as a "Takoma Park, MD woman" in news accounts, which allege that she made multiple visits from October 1999 through March 2002 to the Iraqi Mission to the United Nations in New York. She also traveled to Baghdad in February and March of 2002.

As of April 2002, a Susan Lindauer was in the employ of Democratic Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. Lindauer previously worked in the press offices of Democrats Rep. Peter DeFazio of Oregon (from approximately May 1993 to January 1994), Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon (starting in January 1994), and Former Sen. Carol Moseley Braun of Illinois (from January 1996 to September 1996).

Lindauer also gave a deposition in the investigation of the 1998 Lockerbie airline terror bombing.

Moseley Braun says that she "doesn't remember" Lindauer. But a spokesman for one of the congressmen confirmed that it was "extremely likely" that the woman in question was a former congressional aide and press secretary for the four Democratic congressmen.

Katherine Mangu-Ward is a reporter at The Weekly Standard.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/842odgdw.asp


NEW YORK (AP) -- An American woman was arrested Thursday on charges that she acted as an Iraqi spy before and after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, accepting $10,000 for her work, prosecutors said Thursday.

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Susan Lindauer, 41, was arrested in her hometown of Takoma Park, Maryland, and was to appear in court later in the day in Baltimore, authorities in New York said.

She was accused of conspiring to act as a spy for the Iraqi Intelligence Service and with engaging in prohibited financial transactions involving the Iraqi government under Saddam Hussein.

According to an indictment filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, Lindauer made multiple visits from October 1999 through March 2002 to the Iraqi Mission to the United Nations in New York.

There, she met with several members of the Iraqi Intelligence Service, the foreign intelligence arm of the Iraqi government that allegedly has played a role in terrorist operations, including an attempted assassination of former President George H.W. Bush, the indictment alleged.

The government said she accepted payments from the Iraqis for her services and expenses amounting to a total of $10,000, including $5,000 she received during a trip to Baghdad in February and March 2002, where she allegedly met with Iraqi intelligence officers.

Her acceptance of the money and her willingness to bring it home from Iraq violated a law prohibiting transactions with a government that sponsors international terrorism, the government said. The indictment did not specify a motive.

The charges against Lindauer were included in an expanded indictment in the case against Raed Rokan Al-Anbuge, 28, and Wisam Noman Al-Anbuke, the sons of Iraq's former liaison with United Nations weapons inspectors.

The brothers were charged last year with acting as Iraqi government agents and conspiring to do so, prosecutors said. The indictment said Lindauer conspired with the brothers.

On January 8, 2003, prosecutors said, Lindauer tried to influence U.S. foreign policy by delivering to the home of a U.S. government official a letter in which she conveyed her access to and contacts with members of Saddam's regime. The official was not identified in the indictment.

The United States invaded Iraq last March, and the government fell the following month.

The indictment said Lindauer met on two occasions in Baltimore in June and July with an undercover FBI agent who posed as a Libyan intelligence representative who was seeking to support resistance groups in postwar Iraq. It said she discussed the need for plans and foreign resources to support these groups.

According to the indictment, she continued to correspond with the undercover agent until last month and followed the agent's instructions to leave packages on two occasions in August in "dead drop" operations.

Lindauer, who has not yet been assigned a defense lawyer, faces up to 10 years in prison on the most serious charge and five years on the lesser charge if she is convicted, prosecutors said.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/11/iraq.spy.case.ap/

[usa320]

What a bitch. Hope she gets locked up.

I dont think we need to post to know democrats are commie bastards.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I dont think we need to post to know democrats are commie bastards.


That they are, that they are.

[XASA]

:cantbeli:

Calling fifty percent of the population "Commie bastards" is really the most ignorant post I've seen here and I've seen many. You make Ducimus look like a logical alternative.

What hole did you crawl out of last month Sixgun? You are averaging 20 posts a day and hardly any of them have anything to do with the military, just dumba** political rhetoric that preaches to your choir but doesn't impress anyone else. Do you have a life outside of commenting on everyone elses? usa320 has an excuse, he's still a punk kid, but you seem to have a semblance of an education. What happened to you to make you so angry?

[Beowulf]

:cantbeli:...

What happened to you to make you so angry?

His dad beat him with a democrat when he was a kid...

[XASA]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[George W. Bush]

There is still hope inside the brain of a hippie liberal democrat socialist. I have converted many. It's very important to let them know the truth so they can think for themselves.

[11F5S]

XASA,

When he does post about the military he starts talking out of his ass.

First he states.


I am not too familiar with the 10th Mountain Div. Do they still train to be skiers and mountaineers?

Then about 90 minutes later he's ready to reorganze the division.


I hope that the Pentagon will move the HQ of the 10th Mtn Div. back to Colorado or some other mountain state.

It would be better that they be in a place where they can train for their specialty. Skis and snowshoes can then be used alot in the winter months to develop proficiency IMHO. Sure, most large units will ride around in vehicles, but what about rough mountains where vehicles are roadbound?
It seems to me that a mountain division should be prepared for such conditions.

Climbing and rapelling should be practiced too. Now dropping from a helicopter might be 90% of the rapelling a soldier will do, but a mountain trooper could concievably have to scale cliffs to reach an objective. So be prepared as the old Boy Scout motto goes.

Anyway, I am thinking that maybe we should start a letter writing campaign to move the 10th Mtn Div HQ over to Colorado or some other mountain state. What are your opinions on this matter?

[martinexsquaddie]

er what possible military secrets could save saddam form losing ?
the mind boggles :(
you got the US army the US marine corp a Britsh armoured brigade the USAF and a massive naval fleet waiting for the off.
your armys 3rd rate at best what possible intel could a press secatary working for an member of the oppostion party possibly have that was getting rofl sort of like rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic.
If I'd been an iraqi intel officer I'd have spent the 10 grand wineing and dineing one of the hippy chick human shields in an attempt to get a forign passport rofl

[California Joe]

What I want to know is what kind of retard decides it would be a good idea to talk to anyone related to the Iraqis berore, during or after we kick hell out of their army. "Hmmmmm I think Saddam has a chance to win this and maybe I'll get to be his 32nd level Queen bitch in charge of ball gags, anal probes and wood chippers.Cool". Stupid asshole.

At least the dinks that sold secrets to the KGB during the cold war usually were closet true believers and figured the Soviets might end up ruling the world.

Like making a deal with the Devil and finding out he's got as much juice as Simon Cowell.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

There is still hope inside the brain of a hippie liberal democrat socialist. I have converted many. It's very important to let them know the truth so they can think for themselves.
Errr........huh

[XASA]

George W. Bush (the poster not the president) wants to convert hippies and usa320 thinks communism is threat. Guys, in case you haven't heard, hippies are now passe and communism only exists in a handful of countries that pose no threat to America. You guys need to turn off the computer start interacting with your friends and family. There is a real world out there!

"Where do we find such men?" Ronald Reagan speaking at the 40th Anniversary of D-Day.*

*Actually, the line was first heard thirty years earlier in the film, "Bridges at Toko-Ri" when Fredric March comments on the deathsof William Holden and Mickey Rooney's characters.

[Flagg]

http://www.yale.edu/yale300/democracy/may1text/images/McCarthyandCohen.jpg

A photo of Senator Joe McCarthy being advised by Sixgun Symphoney, "Too much yakking and not enough shooting..let's liquidate all these commie Democrats."

[George W. Bush]

I think Joe McCarthy has gotten a bad rap.

All he did was expose the entire liberal establishment as having sheltered Soviet spies. It's all in the history books if you bother to read it of course.

[Sixgun Symphony]

The Liberals were protecting commie spys like Alger Hiss. Many of them still defend the Rosenbergs who gave our atomic secrets to the
Soviet Union.

Anyone here familar with the Venona project? Venona is the codename for the U.S. Signal Intelligence effort to collect and decrypt the text of Soviet KGB and GRU messages. These were declassified and have shown Senator Joe McCarthy to have been telling the truth about commie spies infiltrating out government.

It was the Franklyn D. Roosevelt who brought alot of Reds into his "New Deal" Socialist administration. Simply put, the pinko liberals share much of the same values with the commie reds and that is why they did a character assassination of Senator Joe McCarthy.

[Haiw]

rofl
Too funny Flagg. :lol:

Oh and Sixgun...come on... there's not ONE category in which you can throw everything pink, liberal, socialist, communist, etc. etc. :roll:

[Flagg]

I think Joe McCarthy has gotten a bad rap.

I don't...he was a well known alcoholic..who destroyed many lives to get re-elected.....at least he did the free world the favour of dying in shamed obscurity in 1957, unable to cause more damage to the innocent.


All he did was expose the entire liberal establishment as having sheltered Soviet spies.

he made a speech in Wheeling, W. Va. He said: "I have here in my hand a list of 205, a list of names made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department,"

Next day in Salt Lake City, he declared: "I hold in my hand the names of 57 card-carrying Communists" working in the State Department.

Ten days later, on the Senate floor, he cited 81 "cases," particularly "three big Communists." Said McCarthy: "While there are vast numbers of other Communists with whom we must be concerned, if we can get rid of these three, we will have done something to break the back of the espionage ring within the State Department."

Either McCarthy was drunk and dyslexic when he kept changing the numbers od communists he "uncovered"..or he was lying.......



It's all in the history books if you bother to read it of course.

Which book HASN'T discredited McCarthy as an ugly drunk who capitalized on the fear of communism to destroy the lives of the innocent?

Exactly how many "communists" did he uncover?

The big bagel: 0

Cite some of your history books or go back to school mushmouth

[Red]

well since she lived in MD then all residents of MD are spies according to your reasoning. :cantbeli:

[Sixgun Symphony]

Flagg,

You are not looking at the new evidence from declassified Cold War documents that vindicate Senator Joe McCarthy.

Joe McCarthy was the victim of character assassination by the Left who were out to protect people like Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs.

Again, it was FDR who brought many reds with him into our government. Pinko liberals and commie reds both share alot of ideological values. They are fellow travelers.

edited to add: I really recommend that you read Ann Coulter's book, Treason : Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism.

You can order it here: Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1400050308/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-0563009-9061450#reader-link)

[Haiw]

Apart from the usual crap, something struck me...

Do you have some psychological disorder with colors? For some odd reason you can't seem to reproduce the word 'liberal' without any reference to the color 'pink'. The same with 'commie' and 'red'. Seriously...you should take treatment.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Apart from the usual crap, something struck me...

Do you have some psychological disorder with colors? For some odd reason you can't seem to reproduce the word 'liberal' without any reference to the color 'pink'. The same with 'commie' and 'red'. Seriously...you should take treatment.

You need to take a political science class.

[Haiw]

You tellling me you did?! Damn, you musta been using quite some illegal stuff to come out of it so stupid! :lol:

[James]

First of all, $10K to work as a spy for 5 years? Yeah... Okay.

I heard a report that she was a freelance journalist, and that most of that money had been for expenses. Also, that in January 2003, she had contacted U.S. Government officials with a letter, telling them that she had contact with members of the Iraqi delegation. She was described as a "misguided, solo peace activist".

Sixgun,

Do you think it is possible to be a patriotic American without being a conservative republican? Just curious.

[Flagg]

Anyone here familar with the Venona project? Venona is the codename for the U.S. Signal Intelligence effort to collect and decrypt the text of Soviet KGB and GRU messages. These were declassified and have shown Senator Joe McCarthy to have been telling the truth about commie spies infiltrating out government.

Yes I'm very familiar with Venona......they attempted to infiltrate us(and we read/decrypted their traffic), we attempted to infiltrate them......and I hate to break the bad news to you but most intelligence sources don't embark on their illegal espionage as a result of political ideology....it's almost always more basic motivators that enable people to do it....usually greed, hatred, ego, or the opportunity to get laid.....

The same motivators McCarthy had to attempt to get re-elected.....by scaring the sh!t out of everyone by "finding" non-existent communists under the bed

Venona doesn't make McCarthy right....why?

Name one person he "outed" that was verified by Venona as being an intelligence source for the Soviets?

You can't



It was the Franklyn D. Roosevelt who brought alot of Reds into his "New Deal" Socialist administration. Simply put, the pinko liberals share much of the same values with the commie reds and that is why they did a character assassination of Senator Joe McCarthy.

McCarthy was an obscure Senator....and like all politicians was continually focused on getting re-elected....by being the "commie hunter" he gained short-term popularity and re-election...until the world saw him for what he was.....a drunk skirt chaser who destroyed the lives of innocents.

He was and remains a cancer on democracy

[California Joe]

Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then. McCarthy was a huge ****. Why don't you talk about what a great guy his number one hatchet man Roy Cohn was? Oh yeah cause he was a practicing self hating homo******.

[ST4]

Ex-Congressional Aide Charged With Spying


Mar 11, 12:45 PM (ET)

By LARRY NEUMEISTER

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA53CCCORD.html

NEW YORK (AP) - A former journalist and ex-congressional press secretary was arrested Thursday on charges she acted as an Iraqi spy before and after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, accepting $10,000 for her work, prosecutors said Thursday.

Susan Lindauer, 41, was arrested in her hometown of Takoma Park, Md., and was to appear in court later in the day in Baltimore, authorities in New York said.

She was accused of conspiring to act as a spy for the Iraqi Intelligence Service and with engaging in prohibited financial transactions involving the government of Iraq.

Lindauer worked at Fortune, U.S. News & World Report and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer before beginning her career as a political publicist. She worked for then U.S. Rep. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., before joining the office of former Illinois Sen. Carol Moseley-Braun as press secretary in 1996.

Chris Fitzgerald, a spokesman for Wyden, now a senator, said the office had heard Thursday of Lindauer's arrest and expected to issue a statement later in the day.

"She worked for us a short period of time," he said.

Moseley-Braun's current spokesperson, Loretta Kane, said the former senator does not remember Lindauer.



I hope they hang the bitch.

Does anything good come out of your f****** mouth Sixgun Symphony? I think I can speak for a lot of people here that you hate the Democratics. Give it a f****** rest!!!!

I can't image what you are going to say if Kerry wins in November...

[Haiw]

Just so I know we're on the same frequency, McCarthy was the guy responsible for the insane communist witchhunt back in the 50's or 60's, right?

[Flagg]

Just so I know we're on the same frequency, McCarthy was the guy responsible for the insane communist witchhunt back in the 50's or 60's, right?

Yes, early 1950's

And no...Venona(US decoding Soviet espionage intercepts) didn't vindicate McCarthy...not a single person McCarthy destroyed was ever charged with espionage, treason, or sedition....period

[George W. Bush]

Alger Hiss, Aaron copland (great composer, too bad he was a commie) are among the list.

[Haiw]

Just so I know we're on the same frequency, McCarthy was the guy responsible for the insane communist witchhunt back in the 50's or 60's, right?

Yes, early 1950's

And no...Venona(US decoding Soviet espionage intercepts) didn't vindicate McCarthy...not a single person McCarthy destroyed was ever charged with espionage, treason, or sedition....period
Ah okay, then I was thinking of the right person. The guy and his actions kinda reminded me of the old witchhunts back in the middle ages. Pretty damn barbaric.

[Red]

where the hell is argyll?

[Haiw]

Shetland.

[Sixgun Symphony]

First of all, $10K to work as a spy for 5 years? Yeah... Okay.

I heard a report that she was a freelance journalist, and that most of that money had been for expenses. Also, that in January 2003, she had contacted U.S. Government officials with a letter, telling them that she had contact with members of the Iraqi delegation. She was described as a "misguided, solo peace activist".

Sixgun,

Do you think it is possible to be a patriotic American without being a conservative republican? Just curious.

Are you trying to say that I should consider this peacenik and her ilk to be patriotic?

It is true that the money was just enough to cover expenses. Her motivation was ideology, not profit. People who share her worldview would consider her to be a patriot for doing her part to help the enemies of the USA.

[Flagg]

Alger Hiss,

Busted by Richard Nixon...NOT McCarthy



Aaron copland (great composer, too bad he was a commie) are among the list.

Riiiiiiiiiight...I can see how dangerous music composers are to national security...what did he do, write subliminal commie messages into his music?

Have a look again at what you wrote:


Aaron copland (great composer, too bad he was a commie) are among the list.

he was a left-wing music composer

I am so embarrassed for you

Now go and sort yourself out

[Sixgun Symphony]

Busted by Richard Nixon...NOT McCarthy


Richard Nixon and Joe McCarthy were on the same "witch hunt" as you people say it.

Aaron Copeland? If he travels then he could be a courier. But most likely his was a more supportive role to use his social status and contacts to rally the sympathetic liberals in defending commie spies from the so called "witch hunts".

Again, go read that book by Ann Coulter.

[Flagg]

The SAME Anne Coulter with the following quotes attributed to her?

• "The swing voters---I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."-- Beyond the News, Fox News Channel, 6/4/00

• "I think [women] should be armed but should not vote...women have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend it....it's always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care."-- Politically Incorrect, 2/26/01

• "We hate them. Americans don't want to make Islamic fanatics love us. We want to make them die. There's nothing like horrendous physical pain to quell anger. Japanese Kamikazes pilots hated us once, too. A couple of well-aimed nuclear weapons got their attention. Now they are gentle little lambs."-- Column, 9/25/02

[b]• "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."-- Column, 9/13/01

• "Soldiers are just cowards with their backs against the wall. The lowest IQ men in our society, those incapable of normal careers enlist. Their choice in life; prison or the military. Some will have to die in the support of our cause." Intervention Magazine,-- 11/06/03

• "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."-- New York Observer interview, 8/20/02

I like the 3 in bold best myself.....

I'd say she's not exactly unbiased in her opinions.....and I choose to read as much unbiased material I can on issues that interest me, written by people without blatant agendas...that way I can for my own opinion...rather than have an opinion formed for me

[Flagg]

Aaron Copeland? If he travels then he could be a courier. But most likely his was a more supportive role to use his social status and contacts to rally the sympathetic liberals in defending commie spies from the so called "witch hunts".

So how many publicly destroyed innocent lives is considered acceptable during a scorched earth re-election agenda commie hunt?

I'm ALL for effective counter-intelligence....TRUST me.....

But what McCarthy did to innocent lives is indefensible...so quite trying

[Sixgun Symphony]

Most of those comments I recognize as hers, but some I don't.

I do agree with her about the scale of this war against militant Islam. Those who say it is a war against terrorism are deluding themselves, terrorism is war. Just like she mentioned those bombings of German cities. The US and UK firebombed German cities to destroy the morale of the German volk because it was the German volk who produced the soldiers and munitions for the nazi war machine.

The enemy against Western Civilization is a resurgent Islam and I think it is going to get alot worse before the liberals can wake up to the fact that this is a clash of civilizations. Lets hope we don't lose the war before that happens.

The Crusades lasted 200 years and I think that our current clash of civilizations will likely take as long. It will be low to medium intensity warfare with a few full scale invasions like Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Aaron Copeland? If he travels then he could be a courier. But most likely his was a more supportive role to use his social status and contacts to rally the sympathetic liberals in defending commie spies from the so called "witch hunts".

So how many publicly destroyed innocent lives is considered acceptable during a scorched earth re-election agenda commie hunt?

I'm ALL for effective counter-intelligence....TRUST me.....

But what McCarthy did to innocent lives is indefensible...so quite trying


Do you really believe that they were innocent?

Again, look up the Venona project. Also, look at how friendly the FDR administration was to the Reds. Many were brought into the US government with the "New Deal" administration.

[Red]

I love SOCNET

[Beowulf]

Attempting to paint Sen. McCarthy as a power hungry slovenly drunk inquisitor of innocent Americans is as idiotic as painting him as a white knight of the Cold War.

It is inaccurate, however, to say that he was not right about the far reaching presence of soviet agents in America. I have no strong feelings either way towards the Senator, I don't really know all that much about him.

It seems that Flagg reserves quite a bit of dislike towards the man...while Sixgun has the opposing view. Usually McCarthy is used as a pawn in the larger argument of conservative vs liberal. i.e. associating liberalism in America to Socialism. (which is usually not too far of a stretch)

It is interesting that you come out so strongly against McCarthy Flagg, b/c you don't strike me as holding left of center views...

Anyway here is an article I found I just did a web search on Joe McCarthy: http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2000/january_2000_5.html

[James]

First of all, $10K to work as a spy for 5 years? Yeah... Okay.

I heard a report that she was a freelance journalist, and that most of that money had been for expenses. Also, that in January 2003, she had contacted U.S. Government officials with a letter, telling them that she had contact with members of the Iraqi delegation. She was described as a "misguided, solo peace activist".

Sixgun,

Do you think it is possible to be a patriotic American without being a conservative republican? Just curious.

Are you trying to say that I should consider this peacenik and her ilk to be patriotic?

It is true that the money was just enough to cover expenses. Her motivation was ideology, not profit. People who share her worldview would consider her to be a patriot for doing her part to help the enemies of the USA.

No, no, no,

Sixgun,

My comments about what I'd heard about this lady and my question about patriotism were completely unrelated. The question about patriotism was in relation to earlier comments you'd made along the lines of democrats = communists, or something...

I will try and remember to make sepreate posts from now on.

So, do you think it is possible to be a patriotic American without being a conservative republican?

[Sixgun Symphony]

So, do you think it is possible to be a patriotic American without being a conservative republican?

There are patriotic Democrats. But the hard left has taken the helm of the party. These radicals got haircuts and put on suits. But they are the same now as they were thirty years ago.

There are many liberals who are honest about how they loathe patriotism.

[Flagg]

It seems that Flagg reserves quite a bit of dislike towards the man...

It is interesting that you come out so strongly against McCarthy Flagg, b/c you don't strike me as holding left of center views...

I guess I'm funny like that Beowulf.....

I'm generally "quite right", pun intended ;) , in my politics....but there are a few "leftie" views I hold.

First and foremost is..."I'd rather have 100 guilty men go free if it prevents an innocent man from being jailed."......or whatever the quote is to that effect.

We have the luxury of retrospect to form our opinions.

My opinion is as follows:

Was there a Communist "infiltration" of the US?

Yes......it's the nature of intelligence, the Soviets spied on the US, the US spied on the Soviets. Both sides did quite naughty things to each other.

Was there a need to improve counterintelligence? Sounds like it...but considering the massive espionage effort the Soviet Bloc made against the US...it sounds like the FBI/CIA did a pretty good job....and before anyone throws known intelligence failures around......

the good guys one.......enough said

Did McCarthy carjack a significant and timely issue?

Yup.....if he really cared about the issue of Soviet Espionage, rather than his career...he would have focused on counterespionage/intelligence efforts to stop the Soviets.

Instead he went after lefties and those sympathetic to communism personally..and in public.......being a member of the communist or nazi party isn't going to win you many friends...but it's not illegal either.....it's a protected right.


Here's a clip from the article you suggested:


“McCarthy opponents liked to claim that what made McCarthy reek in the nostrils of American democracy was not what McCarthy was doing but how he did it: the public airing of unsubstantiated charges, the use of smear and innuendo, and ‘confidential informants, dossiers, political spies,’ as Joseph Rauh himself had written,”

Being subpoena'd to appear in front of a McCarthy hearing was a career/life killer......it was a morally repugnant thing to do....in a country founded on the principles of religious and political freedom.

At the end of the day, with McCarthy the US lost some of it's inherent "moral high ground" it held over the Soviets by scaring the bejesus out of people and preventing some from stating their opposition out of fear of recrimination.......it lowered us morally down to the level of our opponents.


During the time that the Senate was debating whether to condemn McCarthy, Andrei Vishinsky, prosecutor for Stalin’s show trials, passed away after having sent scores of people to their deaths for crimes they didn’t commit. “McCarthy had not sent one person to jail. Yet by a terrible irony of fate,” Herman notes, “it is his name, not Vishinsky’s, that has been universally remembered and reviled as the symbol of an error of terror and suspicion.”

I found this quite amusing......Stalin's "bagman" with gallons of blood on his hands is a fading historical footnote....while McCarthy is vilified.

It's not WHAT he tried to do, but HOW he did it....unAmerican

At the end of the day he started a fight with an opponent that wouldn't sit back and be intimidated...the US Army

Eventually, even his overwhelmingly Republican Senate peers had enough of him.......and censured him.....only the 4th time in history a Senator has been "pimp-slapped"...I think his Republican Party peers' opinion of him says it all.


It's one of those issues that gets me all fired up and shooting from the hip...rather than carefully aimed headshots....

I've always felt McCarthy crossed the line.......getting called on the carpet.......losing your job, unable to find work, shunned by your community....and innocent of any crime.

I was taught the good guys are better than that.

I remember a quote from Risky Business......Joe Pantoliano said something to the effect of "Joel, never F@CK with a man's livelihood."

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Do people actually believe that the McCarthy witch hunts were justified and are these the same people that thought Fords adaptation of Steinbeck’s Grapes Of Wrath was a work of communist propaganda rather than a down home story about struggling migrant farm folks and that Brecht sought to introduce communism into the lives of ordinary Americans through his plays if so I am confused and not a little worried. What is more worrying is that people actually find a corrupt and dishonest drunkard an attractive historical and quotable figure a man willing to smear the reputations of others in order to further his career. I think McCarthy’s death was quite timely as he would probably have met the same fate as one of his compatriots the New Jersey Republican J. Parnell Thomas who did prison time for taking kickbacks.
For a long time I believed that guys like Sixgun were the product of the over fertile imaginations of B movie script writers and neo-communist media nutters but I have been oh so wrong, I think I now believe everything that the Socialist Worker prints.

Yours truly, Worried And Confused

[XASA]

Do people actually believe that the McCarthy witch hunts were justified and are these the same people that thought Fords adaptation of Steinbeck’s Grapes Of Wrath was a work of communist propaganda rather than a down home story about struggling migrant farm folks and that Brecht sought to introduce communism into the lives of ordinary Americans through his plays if so I am confused and not a little worried. What is more worrying is that people actually find a corrupt and dishonest drunkard an attractive historical and quotable figure a man willing to smear the reputations of others in order to further his career. I think McCarthy’s death was quite timely as he would probably have met the same fate as one of his compatriots the New Jersey Republican J. Parnell Thomas who did prison time for taking kickbacks.
For a long time I believed that guys like Sixgun were the product of the over fertile imaginations of B movie script writers and neo-communist media nutters but I have been oh so wrong, I think I now believe everything that the Socialist Worker prints.

Yours truly, Worried And Confused

To most Americans, McCarthy conducted a reign of terror that destroyed the lives of many innocent people. Communism was a real threat to Americans in the early 1950s, but only revisionists like Coulter think McCarthy was right in his approach to the problem. Hindsight tells us he was a joke, and that Roy Cohn was a monster who pulled the strings.

Sixgun and his ilk are not representative of America. He is exactly what he would be in any other country-- a right wing extremist who exists on the fringe because he doesn't fit in anywhere else. Sure, there are a few who share his views, but rest assured, most Americans consider his viewpoints as non-threatening rhetoric. Which is why, I think, he continues to spew his vitriolic reactionary propaganda here on this forum because no one else will listen to him. He is an impotent little man who is attempting to prove his worth. Look at how often he posts. Yesterday he was online from mid-morning to well past midnight spreading his version of the truth on this forum. More than twenty posts a day seems to be a bit over the top and a sign of not having a life.

I have nothing but respect for conservatives who question liberals, but I and millions of other Americans are turned off when they see hate disguised as political thought. Extremists like Sixgun are still very much in the minority...thank God!

[Sixgun Symphony]

What McCarthy did was to expose the communists to the public. Funny how the liberals have everyone thinking there was something wrong about that. That they shrink from the public spotlight like vampires from sunlight speaks volumes about them.

Anyone looking back to the 1930's will know how the liberals were friendly to the communists and dear old "Uncle Joe". FDR brought many of them into his administration, many commies were also coming into prominance in Hollywood and other places of influence.

Someone mentioned Steinbeck. Go read "In Dubious Battle" where the heroic figure is a communist agitator. So thanks for bringing him up.

Anyway, the commies and their liberal friends hate McCarthy for shining a spotlight on their nefarious activities. The liberals used character assasination to destroy McCarthy, but it was not until the 1960's that the reds and pinks were able to make gains.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Someone mentioned Steinbeck. Go read "In Dubious Battle" where the heroic figure is a communist agitator. So thanks for bringing him up.
I cannot recall any reference to communism in Steinbecks "In Dubious Battle" its nothing more than a struggle between ill treated and under paid fruit pickers and the Growers, what gives Sixgun do you see Reds under the bed all of the time, the bible contains plenty of references to the down trodden and disaffected struggling to make their way in life, is it also a communist pamphlet.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Someone mentioned Steinbeck. Go read "In Dubious Battle" where the heroic figure is a communist agitator. So thanks for bringing him up.
I cannot recall any reference to communism in Steinbecks "In Dubious Battle" its nothing more than a struggle between ill treated and under paid fruit pickers and the Growers, what gives Sixgun do you see Reds under the bed all of the time, the bible contains plenty of references to the down trodden and disaffected struggling to make their way in life, is it also a communist pamphlet.

If you don't recall the character who comes out to say that he was a commie, then I suggest that you read it again.

The Okies had a tough time of it then, sure. But it was the depression and it was hard times for everyone.

[front]

SS wrote:

"What McCarthy did was to expose the communists to the public."

No. What McCarthy did was ruin the lives and careers of many innocent people in a self-serving attempt to climb the political ladder. The "Red Menace" was just convenient.

XASA wrote:

" Sixgun and his ilk are not representative of America. He is exactly what he would be in any other country-- a right wing extremist who exists on the fringe because he doesn't fit in anywhere else."

He seems to be fitting in here all right. Must be the quality of the discourse. :-)

cheers

front

[Sixgun Symphony]

Again,

McCarthy went about exposing Reds to the public spotlight.

The Left hated him for it and they destroyed him with character assassination. The declassified Venona project documents have shown him to have been correct all along.

[Flagg]

The Left hated him for it and they destroyed him with character assassination.

I guess McCarthy's alcoholism, and inept grandstanding had NOTHING to do with it rofl ......if the LIBERALS "destroyed" him....why was it the REPUBLICAN Senate censured him? ;)


The declassified Venona project documents have shown him to have been correct all along.

You are generalising......to an unacceptable degree..McCarthy preached anti-communism babble stoking the fears of many with an "Invasion of the Body Snatchers " mentality.....what exactly did he accomplish?

He never outed any espionage agents

He didn't improve FBI/CIA counterintelligence

He accomplished nothing positive

The SPECIFIC people McCarthy named/destroyed were NOT implicated by Venona.

I guess your belief is it's OK to break some eggs to make a cake?

Are those people's destroyed lives acceptable losses? I think not.

The good guys are better than that.

[California Joe]

Back to the original subject for a second, I read an article in the Early Bird on this woman today and she sounds flat crazy. Her neighbor said he caught her up on her roof trying to cut the electrical wires coming to her home with scissors because they were being used to spy on her, she nailed all her windows shut and complained frantically about being constantly under surveillance and of surviving numerous assassination attempts.......

[Sixgun Symphony]

Are those people's destroyed lives acceptable losses? I think not.


You mean the communists were destroyed after they were exposed as being communist?

Do you believe that the decent thing to do is let them keep their cover?

Yes, the GOP senate censured him. He was already destroyed. So how many of the people named were not communists and are you sure they were not caught in the Venona project?

Anyway, back on topic...


Iraq Spy's Dem Ties Obscured in Press Reports
NewsMax.com (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/12/103509.shtml)

Accused Iraq spy Susan Lindauer worked exclusively for some of the most left-wing Democrats in Congress, but Americans who get their news from the mainstream press aren't likely to learn about her political predelictions.

Of the 120 main press reports so far on Lindauer's arrest yesterday, only 12 expressly identified her former employers as Democrats. In a career that began in 1996 and ended in 2002, Lindauer worked as a press aide for Senators Carol Moseley Braun and Ron Wyden, and House members Zoe Lofgren and Peter DeFazio.

Instead of reporting on Lindauer's Democratic ties, the press zeroed in on the fact that she's a distant cousin of White House chief of staff Andrew Card, with a Lexis Nexis search turning up a whopping 71 press accounts noting the GOP family association.

The New York Daily News, for instance, even ballyhooed Lindauer's White House connection in its headline, "Kin of Bush aide nabbed as spy for Iraq." The paper saved news of the accused spy's Democratic pedigree for the third last sentence of its report.

[Flagg]

Sixgun.......You seem to be missing the plot

I'm seriously tempted to frivilously throw my vote down the toilet and vote for John "communist sleeper agent" Kerry...just to piss you off


Back on topic:


Joe Copeland, who supervised Lindauer in 1989 when she wrote editorials for the Everett Herald in Everett, Wash., said she was "the most liberal member of the editorial board at the time."

Though he found Lindauer bright and pleasant, Copeland said she also could be erratic, disappearing for long unexplained periods of the day. "I certainly saw some signs of flakiness," he said.

Lindauer also worked as a reporter, freelance writer or researcher at the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Fortune Magazine and U.S. News and World Report. Spokesmen for those publications said her stints were so short that few people remembered much about her.

Lindauer took jobs as a press secretary or speechwriter with Democratic members of Congress, including Reps. Peter A. DeFazio and Ron Wyden of Oregon in 1993 and 1994, Sen. Carol Moseley Braun of Illinois in 1996 and Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California for eight weeks in 2002.

In 1994, while Lindauer was working on Capitol Hill, she became embroiled in a controversy that may have presaged the kind of activity that has led to her arrest.

At that time, Lindauer told an online newsletter in 2000, she met with a man claiming to be a former CIA informant who told her Syrian-based agents were responsible for the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. The Libyan government has since acknowledged responsibility for the bombing.

Lindauer told the newsletter, the Middle East Intelligence Bulletin, that she met with Libyan officials in 1995 to discuss what she had learned. As a result, she claimed, she was placed under surveillance, threatened and even attacked.

"My house was bugged with listening devices and cameras, little red laser lights in the shower vent," Lindauer said, according to the newsletter. "And I survived several assassination attempts."

In 2001, Susan Lindauer bought her two-story home in Takoma Park, sharing it with her two dogs and a couple who rented a downstairs apartment, neighbors said. In recent years, she seemed to work temporary secretarial jobs, they said. One neighbor, Kathleen Moore, who described Lindauer as amiably awkward, unstylish and unassuming, said she was surprised by the charges.

"She seemed too timid to do something like this," Moore said.

I think the little red laser lights and the assassination attempts says it all.

I reckon her Iraqi handler must have shat himself when he realised he was dealing with a complete nutter.....

Anywho...I reckon she'll be plea bargained out.......and thrown in the nutbox for a couple of years...she needs help