Pro and Anti Concealed Carry?

[Geezah]

I would say that myself Sixgun and a few others here have provided information(stats/numbers) to prove that concealed carry and private gun ownership works but what have the antis put forth to prove otherwise?

This is not a flame, I just find this subject fascinating and has created quite a good discussion.

[cut]

wouldn't you find it just as fascinating in the off-topic area?

[Sixgun Symphony]

This is a "General Forum".

[Sixgun Symphony]

I personally think they should allow citizens to carry their weapons on domestic airline flights.

Hijackers would be committing suicide to even try.

[cut]

fair point, I am though getting bored of this question being asked

[Sixgun Symphony]

fair point, I am though getting bored of this question being asked

Maybe we could discuss CCW as means of combatting terrorism?

I would love to draw my .38 on some terrorist waving a box cutter.

[Ichhabe]

I personally think they should allow citizens to carry their weapons on domestic airline flights.

Hijackers would be committing suicide to even try.

Hell yeah! A crazy assed shot out at 30 000 ft. rofl rofl rofl

[Ichhabe]

fair point, I am though getting bored of this question being asked

Maybe we could discuss CCW as means of combatting terrorism?

I would love to draw my .38 on some terrorist waving a box cutter.


Aaaaaah. Always good to see that someone is willing to do their bit in fighting international terrorism. I am so moved.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I personally think they should allow citizens to carry their weapons on domestic airline flights.

Hijackers would be committing suicide to even try.

Hell yeah! A crazy assed shot out at 30 000 ft. rofl rofl rofl

Use the Glaser Safety Slugs, these would not penetrate the fusilage. Nor can they richochet, nor will they exit the human target.

[Geezah]

I personally think they should allow citizens to carry their weapons on domestic airline flights.

Hijackers would be committing suicide to even try.

Hell yeah! A crazy assed shot out at 30 000 ft. rofl rofl rofl

Use the Glaser Safety Slugs, these would not penetrate the fusilage. Nor can they richochet, nor will they exit the human target.

I guess he missed my post about Extreme Shock USA, this ammo is specifically made not to penetrate the fusilage?

[Geezah]

wouldn't you find it just as fascinating in the off-topic area?

Off what topic and just what are you allowed to post in the General Discussion?

[Geezah]

fair point, I am though getting bored of this question being asked

Just a little bit of advice......try ignoring the subjects you have no interest in? rofl

[Sixgun Symphony]

I guess he missed my post about Extreme Shock USA, this ammo is specifically made not to penetrate the fusilage?

I saw that round too, I wonder how it would compare to the Glaser Safety Slug.

Glaser Safety Slug (http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1977)

[Geezah]

A 17-year-old Cincinnati gunman has been charged with attempted murder in a South Fairmount shooting Saturday that easily could have left rookie 23-year-old police Officer Katrina Neal dead. It was the third time in a month that Cincinnati officers have had a shootout with armed suspects. At a Monday news conference, Police Chief Tom Streicher said the homeless teen shooter told police "flat-out that his intention was to kill that police officer."

No community groups marched on Cincinnati City Hall to demand an end to shooting at police. No ministers went before the cameras to express outrage at the lethal danger officers face daily from gun-toting young outlaws. This community and the courts need to come down hard on increasingly brash gunmen of any age who have grown so unrestrained they do not even flinch at trying to kill a cop.

On Feb. 19, a bullet smashed through the windshield of Officer Patrick Galligan's unmarked detective's car as he was driving on Liberty Street in the West End. Galligan rolled out and returned fire, hitting 21-year-old Michael White in the foot. White was charged with attempted murder. On Feb. 6, after a traffic stop by a uniformed officer in North Fairmount, Jabari Dailey of Mount Auburn ran and aimed a sawed-off shotgun at officers giving chase. Undercover Officers Chris Vogelpohl and Colleen Deegan fired and hit Dailey in the shoulder. Dailey was indicted for felonious assault and other charges.

The teen shooter case Saturday is extraordinary for several reasons, not least that four officers failed to find a .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol and holster concealed between the 17-year-old's legs inside his baggy pants. Officer Neal was transporting the suspect to juvenile detention on a charge of stealing a money order from a Westwood woman and also for violating previous Juvenile Court orders. Although handcuffed behind his back in the rear seat, he managed to draw the hidden gun and fire repeatedly at the back of Neal's head. A plastic divider deflected several rounds. Neal rolled out of the police car and, at risk to her own life, first stopped traffic to keep motorists out of range. Then she took cover and fired one shot, which pierced the rear of the police car and hit the gunman in the shoulder. Before he emptied his gun, one of his rounds grazed a female bystander.

Police officials need to find out if the officers conducting pat-downs were simply careless or are backing off too much after community objections to police arrest methods. "There was simply not a good enough search done - period," Streicher said. Officers should be more vigilant than ever, given that many suspects are armed and not hesitant about firing at police. The four cops may face counseling, but punishment should be reserved for the gunman. The suspect faces a March 18 hearing on whether he should be tried as an adult.

We all need to keep in mind that police officers face a clear and present danger whenever they try to take in a suspect, because so many nowadays carry guns.

It seems since the Police in Cinnci had the problem with the riots a couple of years ago they seem to be treading on eggshells!

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/03/10/editorial_ed1a.html

[Sixgun Symphony]

It was like the LA riots of '92 in Cincinatti. The media did not report much about it.

Maybe it is not news because it was in the "flyover" part of the country?

[Haiw]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

[Gringo]

I think I'm having a De Ja Vu? (spelling?)

[Geezah]

It was like the LA riots of '92 in Cincinatti. The media did not report much about it.

Maybe it is not news because it was in the "flyover" part of the country?

The Police have to a point lost control of the city and so this has a ripple effect when you find that the Police are being shot at, what hope is there for the law abiding citizen?

[Sixgun Symphony]

It was like the LA riots of '92 in Cincinatti. The media did not report much about it.

Maybe it is not news because it was in the "flyover" part of the country?

The Police have to a point lost control of the city and so this has a ripple effect when you find that the Police are being shot at, what hope is there for the law abiding citizen?

The liberals here would jump on me if I said that one could avoid 90% of the problems by staying out of the more 'diverse' neighborhoods.

But its true that these were race riots by the blacks.

[Geezah]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

I don't know what to say about from....I agree.

Something that many aren't aware of is allot of Police Officers when they retire are entitlted to their CCW in the States that allow them, which in my mind is good.

[Sayeret]

Sixgun Symphony said:


personally think they should allow citizens to carry their weapons on domestic airline flights.

Hijackers would be committing suicide to even try.


Maybe we could discuss CCW as means of combatting terrorism?

I would love to draw my .38 on some terrorist waving a box cutter.

So what stops a terrorist from getting a gun and going on a plane. Or the terrorist could get an assault rifle convert it into an automatic weapon and spray the cockpit with bullets. Do you really want shoot outs on a plane. Arming sky marshals is a good idea but allow any citzen who owns a gun to carry it on a plane is just plain stupid.

[Gringo]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

I don't know what to say about from....I agree.

Something that many aren't aware of is allot of Police Officers when they retire are entitlted to their CCW in the States that allow them, which in my mind is good.

For once I agree, since they have had the proper training and experience to know when it is right to use them.

However how do u know the "citizen" who is CCW can be trusted? And isn't going to use the concealed firearm for his own needs?

[Sixgun Symphony]

So what stops a terrorist from getting a gun and going on a plane.


Alot of them do that anyway.

[Geezah]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

I don't know what to say about from....I agree.

Something that many aren't aware of is allot of Police Officers when they retire are entitlted to their CCW in the States that allow them, which in my mind is good.

For once I agree, since they have had the proper training and experience to know when it is right to use them.

However how do u know the "citizen" who is CCW can be trusted? And isn't going to use the concealed firearm for his own needs?

Because allot of States require training before be given your CCW, they explain all the legalities behind the CCW and when not and wehn to pull your weapon you also have to complete a certain amount of range time and if you not hitting the target you won't qualify.
They also offer additional training for those that want it as far as tactical training, which really is a good idea because someone that has gone through all that training isn't going to be itching to get into a firefight, if that was the case they would join up ?

[Geezah]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

I don't know what to say about from....I agree.

Something that many aren't aware of is allot of Police Officers when they retire are entitlted to their CCW in the States that allow them, which in my mind is good.

For once I agree, since they have had the proper training and experience to know when it is right to use them.

However how do u know the "citizen" who is CCW can be trusted? And isn't going to use the concealed firearm for his own needs?

Because allot of States require training before be given your CCW, they explain all the legalities behind the CCW and when not and wehn to pull your weapon you also have to complete a certain amount of range time and if you not hitting the target you won't qualify.
They also offer additional training for those that want it as far as tactical training, which really is a good idea because someone that has gone through all that training isn't going to be itching to get into a firefight, if that was the case they would join up ?

Something else, it's going to cost me $150 for my training course plus ammo 600rnds($60) then you have the fee for the licence($45) and I think an additional($) if they do a full background check(FBI) so really after I've spent all that money and additional on a new handgun(Sig P239 $600+)then the holster($20-$75) I'm not really itching to go to jail for pulling my gun when I shouldn't?

[Gringo]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

I don't know what to say about from....I agree.

Something that many aren't aware of is allot of Police Officers when they retire are entitlted to their CCW in the States that allow them, which in my mind is good.

For once I agree, since they have had the proper training and experience to know when it is right to use them.

However how do u know the "citizen" who is CCW can be trusted? And isn't going to use the concealed firearm for his own needs?

Because allot of States require training before be given your CCW, they explain all the legalities behind the CCW and when not and wehn to pull your weapon you also have to complete a certain amount of range time and if you not hitting the target you won't qualify.
They also offer additional training for those that want it as far as tactical training, which really is a good idea because someone that has gone through all that training isn't going to be itching to get into a firefight, if that was the case they would join up ?

Interesting, I can say I'm starting to liken the idea, do u do CCW or know anybody that does?

[Geezah]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

I don't know what to say about from....I agree.

Something that many aren't aware of is allot of Police Officers when they retire are entitlted to their CCW in the States that allow them, which in my mind is good.

For once I agree, since they have had the proper training and experience to know when it is right to use them.

However how do u know the "citizen" who is CCW can be trusted? And isn't going to use the concealed firearm for his own needs?

Because allot of States require training before be given your CCW, they explain all the legalities behind the CCW and when not and wehn to pull your weapon you also have to complete a certain amount of range time and if you not hitting the target you won't qualify.
They also offer additional training for those that want it as far as tactical training, which really is a good idea because someone that has gone through all that training isn't going to be itching to get into a firefight, if that was the case they would join up ?

Interesting, I can say I'm starting to liken the idea, do u do CCW or know anybody that does?

CCW will be in place in Ohio April 8th and it's taken years to get where we are now. Now when I first moved here my cousin in Richmond, Indiana carried concealed, they lived on a horse ranch with 100 arces but the thing was he was 18 so his Mother owned the firearms and she had to apply for his licence but the thing was when it came down to firearms he was the most responsible person I've ever met, he went through gun course as a kid(4H I think) if he handed you the firearm he would take out the magazine check the chamber like threes time then hand it over but he made sure the gun was unloaded(you treat every gun as if it's loaded, text book but it works) I don't think he ever had to pull it out but he was a cowboy big truck and and a hunter. When I first moved here I was so against firearms I saw no point for it then I realized I came from a Country that saw no need for them and I agreed but the more research I did, I was shocked. To hate something you should at first have a healthy understanding for it, otherwise it's just a blind hatred!



It's amazing here I go to the range sometimes 4-5 guys or I go by myself because next thing you know you're talking to the guy on the bench next to you, you talk about what they have, they let you shoot their firearms and vice versa but it's almost like a family atmosphere not the vision that the antis over here paint.
I've had the oppportunity to shoot some amazing firearms from history,Enfield, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1A(civilian M14) L1A1, AK47, M4(AR15), Mosin Nagant M44(I can't watch Enemy at the Gate anymore, the recoil is allot more extreme) when I was 15 I got to shoot a Davy Crocket type muzzle loader things I couldn't do over in old Blighty.

[Sixgun Symphony]

when I was 15 I got to shoot a Davy Crocket type muzzle loader things I couldn't do over in old Blighty.


The primitive muzzle loading firearms are allowed in Britain.

Check it out. http://mlagb.com/


http://mlagb.com/images/logo.gif

Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain

The MLAGB was formed in 1952 and is the Governing Body for muzzle loading within the UK. Its objectives are to encourage an interest in muzzle loading firearms; to promote, regulate and safeguard their use; and to preserve their freedom of collection.


The flintlock and percussion guns are fine for sport. Farmers will find them useful for pest control too. Like anything else, it takes a bit of training and time at the range to become proficient with these old fashioned firearms.

They're alot of fun and not too expensive.

Be sure to check out the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association by clicking on the NMLRA in my signature line.

[Geezah]

Well, this may sound strange from me, but... if you're gonna allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry. I mean if everyone can get guns, the bad guys will carry anyway, so how much harm could it bring to make everyone pack instead of just the bad guys.

So to sum it up; IMO it's best when no one can get a gun, but if you're gonna fully allow guns, you might just as well allow concealed carry as it could only 'even it out'. Either the full measure against guns (no guns for anyone) or no measure, half-arsed attempts always turn out crap. Same with the assault rifle bill crap; either you allow guns, or you don't. Allowing guns, while forbidding others is bullcrap.

Oh, I can just imagine it at the airports: "Here's you ticket, and your ammunition. Please load the special Glaser ammo before you board the plane. Have a nice flight!"

I don't know what to say about from....I agree.

Something that many aren't aware of is allot of Police Officers when they retire are entitlted to their CCW in the States that allow them, which in my mind is good.

For once I agree, since they have had the proper training and experience to know when it is right to use them.

However how do u know the "citizen" who is CCW can be trusted? And isn't going to use the concealed firearm for his own needs?

Because allot of States require training before be given your CCW, they explain all the legalities behind the CCW and when not and wehn to pull your weapon you also have to complete a certain amount of range time and if you not hitting the target you won't qualify.
They also offer additional training for those that want it as far as tactical training, which really is a good idea because someone that has gone through all that training isn't going to be itching to get into a firefight, if that was the case they would join up ?

Interesting, I can say I'm starting to liken the idea, do u do CCW or know anybody that does?

CCW will be in place in Ohio April 8th and it's taken years to get where we are now. Now when I first moved here my cousin in Richmond, Indiana carried concealed, they lived on a horse ranch with 100 arces but the thing was he was 18 so his Mother owned the firearms and she had to apply for his licence but the thing was when it came down to firearms he was the most responsible person I've ever met, he went through gun course as a kid(4H I think) if he handed you the firearm he would take out the magazine check the chamber like threes time then hand it over but he made sure the gun was unloaded(you treat every gun as if it's loaded, text book but it works) I don't think he ever had to pull it out but he was a cowboy big truck and and a hunter. When I first moved here I was so against firearms I saw no point for it then I realized I came from a Country that saw no need for them and I agreed but the more research I did, I was shocked. To hate something you should at first have a healthy understanding for it, otherwise it's just a blind hatred!



It's amazing here I go to the range sometimes 4-5 guys or I go by myself because next thing you know you're talking to the guy on the bench next to you, you talk about what they have, they let you shoot their firearms and vice versa but it's almost like a family atmosphere not the vision that the antis over here paint.
I've had the oppportunity to shoot some amazing firearms from history,Enfield, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1A(civilian M14) L1A1, AK47, M4(AR15), Mosin Nagant M44(I can't watch Enemy at the Gate anymore, the recoil is allot more extreme) when I was 15 I got to shoot a Davy Crocket type muzzle loader things I couldn't do over in old Blighty.

Something else I'd like to add is that in Ohio you have to be 21yrs old to apply for your CCW.

Another thing is, I know we've gone round and round about right and wrong, but one thing is the Pro Concealed Carry bunch are well versed in the legal aspects of owning and using firearms which is a hell of allot more that can be said for groups like the Brady Bunch and Million Mum Marchers over here.

[Geezah]

when I was 15 I got to shoot a Davy Crocket type muzzle loader things I couldn't do over in old Blighty.


The primitive muzzle loading firearms are allowed in Britain.

Check it out. http://mlagb.com/


http://mlagb.com/images/logo.gif

Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain

The MLAGB was formed in 1952 and is the Governing Body for muzzle loading within the UK. Its objectives are to encourage an interest in muzzle loading firearms; to promote, regulate and safeguard their use; and to preserve their freedom of collection.


The flintlock and percussion guns are fine for sport. Farmers will find them useful for pest control too. Like anything else, it takes a bit of training and time at the range to become proficient with these old fashioned firearms.

They're alot of fun and not too expensive.

Be sure to check out the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association by clicking on the NMLRA in my signature line.

You what you learn something new everyday, I had no clue about that, it was Great Uncle over here that let me fire it, he was into all that Native American stuff and going to pow wows, he ebven made his own flint arrow heads.

[Ichhabe]

I personally think they should allow citizens to carry their weapons on domestic airline flights.

Hijackers would be committing suicide to even try.

Hell yeah! A crazy assed shot out at 30 000 ft. rofl rofl rofl

Use the Glaser Safety Slugs, these would not penetrate the fusilage. Nor can they richochet, nor will they exit the human target.

I guess he missed my post about Extreme Shock USA, this ammo is specifically made not to penetrate the fusilage?


First off all, I have no interest in reading any article or whatever related to Extreme Shock USA or any ammo whatsover. Nor did I yesterday, to day, tomorrow or ever.

Second: Getting off topic in ones own thread is an achivement. Rock on!!!

[Durandal]

It was like the LA riots of '92 in Cincinatti. The media did not report much about it.

Maybe it is not news because it was in the "flyover" part of the country?

No it wasn't.

Ohio State post game riots are worse. They were bad, relative for Cincinnati, since our last real riots were in the late '60s. I took the bus through the riot areas on that Thrusday and Friday. Nothing was business as usual, and there were some boarded up store fronts, but it was not LA '92.

We lived in Clifton at the time, where the University of Cincinnati is located. It was quite literally surrounded by low income neighborhoods where there was a low level of violence on Thursday, and we were certainly prepared for the worst...but it never happend.

The entire riots were blown fairly out of proportion as was the level of black vs. white tension.

After all, 85% of the people arrested those four days were from out fo town.

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

I am glad to hear that ohio's CCW will be in effect soon. I have completed the training here in Kentucky and have my certificate.(just need to go get the actual license, and I am not carrying a CW until then...). The training was done by a veitnam vet/retired officer, and his son who is a Police officer locally. The spectrum of people in the class was really cool. There were men and women, yound and old (at least 21), and different ethnic backgrounds.

People who take the time to go through all the training and background checks are willing to take on the responsibilites that exercising such a right entails.

Wouldnt it be neat if you had to go through similar voter awareness training and recieve a permit before you could go and cast your ballot....chad, what chad? lol

Jesus blessings!
chris holloman

[James]

I am pro carry, and I do.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Durandal]

Hey howdy hey!

I am glad to hear that ohio's CCW will be in effect soon.

Meaning, with your Kentucky CCL, you will be able to frive to either Michigan or Florida with no hassels!



People who take the time to go through all the training and background checks are willing to take on the responsibilites that exercising such a right entails.

Thank you! This is probably one of the most important points in Conceal Carry issue. Same as getting a Class III FFL...

Knob Creek is in three weeks!

[Tane Angle]

No offense and with all due respect, but most civilians don't have the appropriate rounds for fighting on airplanes, much less the shooting ability. That's not a dig at anyone in particular, and you might very well have both those assets, but most civilians don't.

However, I do carry two concealed firearms normally, not to mention an ASP baton and small knife, so I do have my CCL. I don't have a problem with people protecting themselves. I do have a problem, though, with situations where the weapon becomes more of a threat to other civilians that to any life-threatening person.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Johnnyringo]

The prevailing myth is that a gunshot that penetrates the "hull" of an aircraft while pressurized would cause it to rapidly decompress and possibly break apart.... but it would actually take a larger explosion more like a small bomb, (like the "shoe bomber") to actually make a big enough hole to break away the fuselage of the aircraft. So really no special ammunition unless your packing a Desert Eagle, is required...

[Durandal]

No offense and with all due respect, but most civilians don't have the appropriate rounds for fighting on airplanes, much less the shooting ability. That's not a dig at anyone in particular, and you might very well have both those assets, but most civilians don't.

However, I do carry two concealed firearms normally, not to mention an ASP baton and small knife, so I do have my CCL. I don't have a problem with people protecting themselves. I do have a problem, though, with situations where the weapon becomes more of a threat to other civilians that to any life-threatening person.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

A voice of reason...

[Osama bin Ladin]

Did you know that there are no gun-control laws in Dar al-Islam, infidel? Truly it is like one big OK Corral. In fact, we give guns to two-year-olds. More guns, less Jews!

[stuntman]

Did you know that there are no gun-control laws in Dar al-Islam, infidel? Truly it is like one big OK Corral. In fact, we give guns to two-year-olds. More guns, less Jews!

Hoods ganna get you NA NA NA NA NA!

[martinexsquaddie]

well personally i'd rather not be on an airplane with wannabe sky marshall.
Are there any plans in the US to restrict criminals access to guns?

[Mark Sman]

Are there any plans in the US to restrict criminals access to guns?

There are laws against it, as you know. But I don't know of any new effective plan to actually restrict criminal access to guns. Currently criminals that are actually caught with guns are only prosecuted sporadically.

I look at peoples rap sheets all the time (public record here) and you see that some nimrod that just pulled some heinus stuff has been popped like three times for "felon in posession" or "unlicensed concealed carry." Sometimes they've even done time for it. Like a year or two.

Its just sad because dangerous buffoons like that should be locked up. When they get convicted as a felon in possesion of a firearm they should do 10 years.

I wish that we would prosecute all felons found in posession of a firearm.

As for restricting access before hand, very difficult in this country.

[infinite]

Allowing anybody to take a gun on an airplane is stupid. I am definately pro-concealed carry. And Extreme Shock and other ammunitions that come in flashy packages are crap. Stick with the tried and true - federal, black hills, etc.

[Sleeping Sun]

Mmmmmmmm...Uhh..
Doo doo doo doo
Wicki-wild wilddoo doo doo doo dooooo
Wicki-wicki-wild
Wicki-wild
Wicki-wicki Wild Wild West
Yeahhhhhhhahhhhhhhh!
Jim West, desperado
Rough rider, no you don't want nada
None of this, six-gunnin this, brother runnin this...


I personally think they should allow citizens to carry their weapons on domestic airline flight

That might actually be the most stupid idea ever. Congratulations! :cantbeli:

...Wicki-wicki Wild Wild West...

[Trident-za]

Personally, if I was offered the choice of flying to the US on an airliner where the civilians were carrying weapons "in case of terrorist attack" or swimming to the US, I'd swim....

[Gringo]

Did you know that there are no gun-control laws in Dar al-Islam, infidel? Truly it is like one big OK Corral. In fact, we give guns to two-year-olds. More guns, less Jews!

I'm an infidel or athiest (same thing) and damn proud of it. What ya gonna do?

Racist... :bash:

[martinexsquaddie]

I suppose a first stop would be do some research into where criminals get there guns and where they came from in the first place.
might be uncomfatable reading though

[Tane Angle]

martinexsquaddie, nearly all illegal guns started life as legal ones. They're bought cheap and easy one place with lax gun laws, brought en masse to another place with tough gun laws where guns are more expensive and difficult to buy. This is some people feel that guns should be more of a federal issue than a state one; the guns cross state lines, and no matter how hard one state tries to keep it's streets safe from dangerous guns, other states unintentionally cut out the first state's legs from under it.

Have a good one all, and just some thoughts...

[Skaman]

It easy to take a pistol with you everywhere, it is not easy to take a shotgun or rifle everywhere. With this noted, those who have weapons on them often may be inclined to ask on emotional and irrational impulses. Many spousal disputes have unfortunately ended with someone being shot by pistols in close proximity, then after, the husband or wife is mentally wrecked, in distraught. Additionally, having a weapon on you often leads to arrogance and a feeling of power which can in-turn lead to fatal encounters and violent confrontations. This can be applied to knives as well, though not to the same degree as pistols. Having a weapon in ones hands during a tense or emotional moment creates a de-individualization where one acts spontaneously, and loses the cognitive ability to think rationally. They fail to be cognizant of basic social norms, and are driven by their 'fight or flight instincts' and often turn to the weapon in panic. Many have died from minor civil disputes, and the hands of nervous individuals who can not handle a weapon properly. Additionally, it is far easier to commit a crime such as a robbery or mugging with a pistol than a large stock firearm. Due to this concealment, bystanders are often unaware and ****e to assault. Selling concealed pistols legally may incline your average junkie to rob an unsuspecting 7-11 clerk with a pistol. Clearly, the junkie may examine the scenario and recognize that carrying a large unconcealed fire-arm into a store is not a good idea as it is not easy to dispose of, hide, and will draw obvious attention. In the end, having a pistol on yourself during robbery is likely of no use anyway, and it is probably best to just give the mugger your till or wallet than risk your life. Concealed weapons are very mobile they prove to be the most dangerous. Many may disagree with me, but logically, one must ask himself, will a pistol do anything a locked shotgun cannot?

[Scrim]

Im all for gun ownership, I just think they are way to easy to get. For example, here in Georgia the gun laws are very lax. When I bought my first pistol, the store owner took my ID, made a 3 minute phone call and poof "heres your new gun sir".
When I got my CCW,I paid $80 (I think), I filled out a form, got finger-printed and within 45 days(I assume they did a background check) I got my permit in the mail. Too easy.

[Tributal]

Im all for gun ownership, I just think they are way to easy to get. For example, here in Georgia the gun laws are very lax. When I bought my first pistol, the store owner took my ID, made a 3 minute phone call and poof "heres your new gun sir".You might want to add for the non-U.S. members that that 3-minute phone call was to verify that you didn't have a criminal record which would prevent you from owning a firearm. Makes a difference you know. ;)



When I got my CCW,I paid $80 (I think), I filled out a form, got finger-printed and within 45 days(I assume they did a background check) I got my permit in the mail. Too easy.No training for the CCW in Georgia?

[James]

Washington State is a "Shall Issue" CPL (concealed pistol license) state. It is done with the county in which you live. One fills out paperwork, gets fingerprinted, and then the paperwork is sent to the State Patrol before going to the FBI. When everything checks out (about 30 days), one receives a license in the mail.

It is called "Shall Issue" because the State Legislature decided that law abiding citizens don't need to justify why they want a license to carry a concealed handgun - if you don't have a criminal background, are mentally sound, and meet the other standards for owning a handgun, you may have a CPL.

[Scrim]

Thanks James, had no clue as to what the process involved. Do you know how many States are "Shall Issue"?

[James]

I do not know how many "Shall Issue" states there are.

[Quon Sen Hutt]

I never leave home without my Glock. :)

[martinexsquaddie]

Unfortunatly making guns a federal issue would play into the hands of sixguns and his state rights MOB. make more sense than banning FNS and m14s hardly the weapon of choice of a criminal

[Quon Sen Hutt]

Better to ban criminals than our RTKBA.

[Geezah]

Im all for gun ownership, I just think they are way to easy to get. For example, here in Georgia the gun laws are very lax. When I bought my first pistol, the store owner took my ID, made a 3 minute phone call and poof "heres your new gun sir".You might want to add for the non-U.S. members that that 3-minute phone call was to verify that you didn't have a criminal record which would prevent you from owning a firearm. Makes a difference you know. ;)



When I got my CCW,I paid $80 (I think), I filled out a form, got finger-printed and within 45 days(I assume they did a background check) I got my permit in the mail. Too easy.No training for the CCW in Georgia?

That 3minute call always turns into 2days for me! It's th backgrond check that all States have to abide by!

[Geezah]

Thanks James, had no clue as to what the process involved. Do you know how many States are "Shall Issue"?
http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.gif

This should explain it all.

[Geezah]

Unfortunatly making guns a federal issue would play into the hands of sixguns and his state rights MOB. make more sense than banning FNS and m14s hardly the weapon of choice of a criminal

Maybe I'm off base here but the Assault Weapon Ban(AWB) that Clinton put in place was a Federal Ban? But it proved one thing the statement you made about the weapon of choice is very correct! The Brady Act is a Federal thing, BATF(Federal)DEA(Federal)Sheriffs(State)Police(State)Troopers(State)

[Tributal]

That 3minute call always turns into 2days for me! It's th backgrond check that all States have to abide by!Mine used to take more than 3 minutes too. The worst I had was that I was denied once, which I contacted the FBI about - wrote them that there's no reason I should have been denied etc etc. After a month or two I got a letter back stating that "After further investigation we have concluded that there is nothing prohibiting you from purchasing firearms in the U.S."

Only problem was that they wanted me to bring the letter back to the dealer so they could reference it when calling in for the background check on the original weapon a second time. Too bad this had to be done within 30 days of the original attempted purchase - the gun was long gone by the time I got the letter.

Us "foreigners" usually have a hard time, though I never had any problems prior to 9/11 - and any problems I've had since I can accept.

[Geezah]

That 3minute call always turns into 2days for me! It's th backgrond check that all States have to abide by!Mine used to take more than 3 minutes too. The worst I had was that I was denied once, which I contacted the FBI about - wrote them that there's no reason I should have been denied etc etc. After a month or two I got a letter back stating that "After further investigation we have concluded that there is nothing prohibiting you from purchasing firearms in the U.S."

Only problem was that they wanted me to bring the letter back to the dealer so they could reference it when calling in for the background check on the original weapon a second time. Too bad this had to be done within 30 days of the original attempted purchase - the gun was long gone by the time I got the letter.

Us "foreigners" usually have a hard time, though I never had any problems prior to 9/11 - and any problems I've had since I can accept.

I've yet to be denied which sucks for you, but the 4 times I've done it I've been delayed 3. I guess it annoys me at the time and I'm prepared for it now but I guess if it helps keeping guns out of the hands of terrorist/criminals it ain't so bad ;)

[Tributal]

I've yet to be denied which sucks for you, but the 4 times I've done it I've been delayed 3.To be quite honest I can't remember how many times I've gone through the background check.... Damn, now I can't remember how many firearms I've purchased - I know how many I have left, but still... Hmm, getting old...
:oops:


I guess it annoys me at the time and I'm prepared for it now but I guess if it helps keeping guns out of the hands of terrorist/criminals it ain't so bad ;)That's the way I looked at it too, though the guys in the store were real apoligetic about it I tried to tell them I wasn't upset or anything and that I fully understood why this was happening and that they shouldn't worry about it.