Anyone want the CIA para look, on the cheap?

[Lanton]

First saw this picture of what I presume is an American 'operator' (of some sort; maybe from the CIA's Special Activities Division) in Afghanistan on the front of an issue of Time magazine back in 2002.

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/Special_Forces-Afghanistan/SF_Cowboy2.jpg

The Time piece mainly focused on the CIA and it's chequered history in the paramilitary business. It also looked at what the CIA and the Pentagon's regular specops people did in Afghanistan in late 2001.

Well, as you can imagine, the point of this thread is that I'd like to know, to a relative degree of certainty, what kit that bloke's wearing.

The obvious bits of gear; a baseball cap (with an IFF tag on it?), some regular shades, a beard (ukitmonster?), a ballistic vest, tan trousers, desert boots (i'm assuming he's wearing desert boots), dark green gloves, padded belt, leather thigh holster (looks like an M9?), a bog-standard hunting knife (I don't know squat about knives) and an M4A1 with an aimpoint and a light (surefire maybe?).

I'm guessing you wouldn't have to fork out that much to look like an SAD operator at an airsoft game.

[Chops]

He's ODA not Agency. A couple of guys on here know him- I can't remember which ODA for the life of me but they will.

C

[Lanton]

He's ODA not Agency. A couple of guys on here know him- I can't remember which ODA for the life of me but they will.

C
Well, well, well - all this time I thought he was CIA, lol. So do you reckon he's a green beret?

[Futile Talisman]

Well, well, well - all this time I thought he was CIA, lol. So do you reckon he's a green beret?

A Green Beret is what one wears, he is a Special Forces soldier. This particular picture seems to be quite famous, it graces the cover of at least two books I can think of right now, Masters of Chaos and The Killer Elite.

It is somewhat deceptive in that the Killer Elite (I think) deals with the unit known as the ISA or one of the many cover names used I guess, ie. Gray Fox, Torn Victor, Centre Spike, and on and on.

If your looking for a CIA SAD pic there is an album here, pics of officers around Mazar IIRC. Take a look at it, there is one of an officer dressed semi-indig.

EDIT: http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/CIA_SAD here it is.

Good Luck,

FT

[Lanton]

A Green Beret is what one wears, he is a Special Forces soldier. This particular picture seems to be quite famous, it graces the cover of at least two books I can think of right of now, Masters of Chaos and The Killer Elite.

It is somewhat deceptive in that the Killer Elite (I think) deals with the unit known as the ISA or one of the many cover names used I guess, ie. Gray Fox, Torn Victor, Centre Spike, and on and on.

If your looking for a CIA SAD pic there is an album here, pics of officers around Mazar if IIRC. Take a look at it, there is one of Dave Tyson/Dawson dressed semi-indig.

Good Luck,

FT
I'm not from the states, so i've only ever heard them referred to as green berets (I get your point though). The picture's great isn't it - sorta sums up the American fighting man for me.

Will take a look at the CIA SAD pics, thanks.

[bluffcove]

I dont get involved with airsofting or the hierarchy of the American speical forces that goes on on here.

But if you want to wear something sleevless and a thin cotton tshirt to get shot at then thats your own choice.

[Milla]

Gotta love the beard

[RGRBOX]

Gotta love the beard

I'm working on mine at the moment... anyway, he's carrying a Randell knife from what Ican tell.. just though I would throw that in..

As for the book "Masters of Chaos".. has anyone read it yet (BTDT), and what did (BTDT) think about it.. I have it, and am currently reading it.. I find it a good read, but I know that good reads are someimte flawed, anyway, there's a pic inside of it, of an ODA in A-Stan, with a pic of a guy, that was also in a pic that one of our members posted last year. Can't remmber which member it was, but I'f I find the pic in our files, I'll link it.

[GatorRaider]

Masters of Chaos is a great book. I'd kind of like to know what actual SF guys think of it, though.

Here's another picture of him: http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Special_Forces-Afghanistan/SF_Cowboy

You can get a better look at his gear there. I can't figure out, though, where he's carrying his M4 magazines.

[RGRBOX]

The pic of the 3 SF fellas I was refering to was a pic of three guy in Blue jeans inside of a tent before they went out on a mission I believe.. anyway, there's one guy with Blonde Hair, in that pic who is also in the book..

He's with or was with ODA 081..

[California Joe]

Here's a drawing I did of the subject in question....I still think it's stoli....:)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7454/stoli1oz.jpg

[RGRBOX]

I read The Hunt for BL and thought it was a good read.. but I read some who didn't like it, and thought it was total BS..

Nice pic CJ..

[RandallH1989]

talented bastard i can't draw a line without a ruler

And I usually knock the ruler out of place. :-(

[Futile Talisman]

Here's a drawing I did of the subject in question....I still think it's stoli....:)


Jeez! Nice Pic, Good Stuff........................

Not a BTDT but I would suggest taking a look at Gary Bernsten's (Gary #2 for the Bush at War readers) Jawbreaker, as well as First In by Gary Shchroen. Schroen's definetly shows that age ie. "Pappy" as well as Schroen is invaluable and not always a bad thing. Speaks volumes for experience. Schroen's includes the work the SAD officers did with ODAs 555, 574, and 585.

Bernsten's is complete with redactions that the censors at CIA did on the manuscript, overall he captures what it was like to work with Afghan troops and the difficulties it entailed. I have read mixed reviews on both but one point does come through in each book. The ability of the SF troops and the SAD officers to work on the fly without a play book so to speak is impressive to say the least.

There is a small segment in Bernsten's book that deals with a missing pistol and Afghan honor that I thought was insightful. Anyway JMHO and 0.02 cents.........

FT

PS and Lanton to get back to your original question, lol, both of the above have descriptions and some b&w pics of the kit that the CIA teams wore in Afghanistan, even some nice tidbits about the Soviet/Russian equipment and weapons used, helicopters and all.

[GatorRaider]

I haven't read First In, but Jawbreaker is great. The redactions get a little annoying, though I understand why he left them in.

But no, it's a great book. I've been impressed enough by the book, and what little else I've read about the SAD that I'm working on an airsoft team modeled after them. People with knowledge of foreign languages, cultures, etc. I'm thinking of setting up some sort of training program that involves surveillance, infiltration and other tradecraft skill.

[Anthony91]

And I usually knock the ruler out of place. :-(

use MS Paint. :):):):):)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jais]

I just recenty finished reading Masters of Chaos, and I thought it was good book that gives you a brief overview of what SF soldiers did in each of the conflicts over the last 15 years.

I think the book shows quite well the problems these guys have to deal with with the fighters they have to train and lead into battle. Aswell as the seemingly independant enviroment they operate in, and their ability to over come and adjust.

[TacoDelRio]

I'm suprised he hasn't responded yet. (The individual in the picture.) ;)

[Lanton]

I haven't read First In, but Jawbreaker is great. The redactions get a little annoying, though I understand why he left them in.

But no, it's a great book. I've been impressed enough by the book, and what little else I've read about the SAD that I'm working on an airsoft team modeled after them. People with knowledge of foreign languages, cultures, etc. I'm thinking of setting up some sort of training program that involves surveillance, infiltration and other tradecraft skill.
Jawbreaker was a great read wasn't it. I'm trying to get hold of a copy of First In too, but I just haven't seen it in the bookshops or in audio form on the net.

If you liked See No Evil, i'd suggest you have a look at Robert Baer's See No Evil (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140004684X/sr=8-1/qid=1145855353/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8855784-5716712?%5Fencoding=UTF8). He was an old Middle East hand who left the CIA in the late 90s.

[RGRBOX]

I'm suprised he hasn't responded yet. (The individual in the picture.) ;)
Most likely he's deployed...

[Ghostryder]

Most likely he's deployed...

Arrgghhh...sooutoftheloopdon'tknowwhichmembersojealous.

Anyhoo: I too read Masters of Chaos. I found it a pretty good read, but lacking the sort of blood, sweat, and tears, tactics, and minutae that got me onto this whole website in the first place.

Speaking of which; this was one of the first pictures I saw when I first visited this website sometime in '03, it continues to interest me to this day.

[GatorRaider]

Jawbreaker was a great read wasn't it. I'm trying to get hold of a copy of First In too, but I just haven't seen it in the bookshops or in audio form on the net.

If you liked See No Evil, i'd suggest you have a look at Robert Baer's See No Evil (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140004684X/sr=8-1/qid=1145855353/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-8855784-5716712?%5Fencoding=UTF8). He was an old Middle East hand who left the CIA in the late 90s.
I've heard a lot about See No Evil, but I haven't read it. I've been reading a lot about the CIA proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan for a term paper. Ghost Wars and Charlie Wilson's War are both pretty good. Charlie Wilson's War in particular gives you a pretty good idea of how the Clandestine Service works.

[Ghostryder]

A word to the wise:

before cracking open Ghost Wars have a bottle of amphetamines and enough food for a week at the ready .

[Adz]

talented bastard i can't draw a line without a ruler

I can't do that even with a ruler, lol

[RGRBOX]

Arrgghhh...sooutoftheloopdon'tknowwhichmembersojealous.

Anyhoo: I too read Masters of Chaos. I found it a pretty good read, but lacking the sort of blood, sweat, and tears, tactics, and minutae that got me onto this whole website in the first place.

Speaking of which; this was one of the first pictures I saw when I first visited this website sometime in '03, it continues to interest me to this day.

Well, the one thing I like about the book is there isn't all of that blood and guts stuff.. You may spend twenty years in the military, and never fire your weapon in war.. anyway, I like these kinds of stories just for the fact that they're more into the person.... The CW3 Wurst in the book is one of the most interesting people I've read about in a while.. I'd be interested in reading a book only about his life... But I'm a Historian.. and the boring stuff interests me the most... I've actually read the History of the Calculus.. talk about boring..

[dacanadianbomb]

But if you want to wear something sleeveless and a thin cotton tshirt to get shot at then thats your own choice.

If you look closely, thou shalt notice that he is wearing armour.And the rest of his gear is surely not a 10 minute drive away.


History of Calculus Mike?
Pff must be the swiss colouring off on you.No sane person would take the time to try and understand that.

[RGRBOX]

If you look closely, thou shalt notice that he is wearing armour.And the rest of his gear is surely not a 10 minute drive away.


History of Calculus Mike?
Pff must be the swiss colouring off on you.No sane person would take the time to try and understand that.

Yeah.. I know.. but I like to read.. I put away about 40 books a year.. anyway, it's not the Swiss, just my interest in almost everything..

[Kilo1-1]

I just recenty finished reading Masters of Chaos, and I thought it was good book that gives you a brief overview of what SF soldiers did in each of the conflicts over the last 15 years.

I think the book shows quite well the problems these guys have to deal with with the fighters they have to train and lead into battle. Aswell as the seemingly independant enviroment they operate in, and their ability to over come and adjust.

2x, I too read the book, and it's a good read.

As for the CIA Special Activity Division / ODA look, it's very easy to pull off. Here's my example:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4420/fulledit3gc.jpg
Note*: The SAD operators usually carried some type of AK, while the ODAs usually kept their M4/armalite variants.

[Kilo1-1]

Oops, double post, sorry

[Pete031]

CIA use Glocks.... SF use M9's

[Ravage]

Could someone PLEASE tell A-Dawg to change his avatar,
so it would not be the picture of a dead GROM operator L.T. Kaśkoś ! ! !

[Kilo1-1]

Yikes, he was killed in action?

[Ravage]

Yep, allong with his friend CWO. Artur Żukowski (I think I've got the rank right. In Poland he was a "chorąży", an NCO).
They were both in GROM. When they got back from their second tour of duty in Iraq, the quit the Army and went working for Blackwater. Soon after they got back in Baghdad, their convoy was attacked. The SUV that "Kaśka" and "Żuku" were in got hit by an RPG. They never had a chance :(

"Kaśka"

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9504/kaska6cw9on.th.jpg (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kaska6cw9on.jpg)

"Żuku"

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2598/seehawk5yo7zn.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=seehawk5yo7zn.jpg)

[TacoDelRio]

Kilo,

How do you carry extra magazines with that setup?

[Kilo1-1]

Anywhere. I carry them in the pockets of my jacket and jeans. If i'm wearing cargo pants, then I stick them in the multiple pockets there. And if I really need a lot of mags, the Molle pack also has mag pouches inside, but it's inconvenient to get unless I take the molle backpack off. In the pic, you'll notice that I also taped my mags together for quicker reloads.

[Gringo]

But no, it's a great book. I've been impressed enough by the book, and what little else I've read about the SAD that I'm working on an airsoft team modeled after them. People with knowledge of foreign languages, cultures, etc. I'm thinking of setting up some sort of training program that involves surveillance, infiltration and other tradecraft skill.

Original idea, and would be interesting to see. But I can see it would be difficult to do, might work in a big weekend game though.

[RGRBOX]

Kilo,

How do you carry extra magazines with that setup?

This guys probably pulling security outside of the vehicle. I'm sure his extra kit and ammo are with the vehicle..

Looks like they are securing an LZ...

[Anthony91]

Could someone PLEASE tell A-Dawg to change his avatar,
so it would not be the picture of a dead GROM operator L.T. Kaśkoś ! ! !

I've already changed it B.T.W.

[dave81]

That guy's a total badass, but the beard reminds me of this guy:

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:wSEBZ7e5KDJczM:davidbergen.org/papasmurfw200modmod.jpg

[Futile Talisman]

I've heard a lot about See No Evil, but I haven't read it. I've been reading a lot about the CIA proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan for a term paper. Ghost Wars and Charlie Wilson's War are both pretty good. Charlie Wilson's War in particular gives you a pretty good idea of how the Clandestine Service works.

Have you looked at Milt Beardon's The Black Tulip, it is a pretty good read about the CIA, Afghanistan, and the Soviets. Great blend of the US strategy, the PAK ISI, Afghan warlords, and a good overall look at the Operations Directorate fighting a "proxy war" to use your words.

Beardon contends it was Afghanistan and not SDI that really hurt the USSR. Not too sure about that contention, but a good book none the less. I once heard Mr. Beardon speak, he said the happiest moment of his career was the Soviet tanks rolling out of Afghanistan into then the Uzbek SSR, across the "Bridge of Friendship" into Termez. I was lucky enough to visit that bridge before 9/11 back in late 1999. Mr. Beardon said he opened a bottle of Scotch he had been saving and got thoroughly drunk one day while the Soviet's withdrew.

Another old timer, Duane "Dewy" Clarridge, wrote a book about his time in the DO, A Spy for all Seasons is the title I believe. Classic Ivy League blue blood recruited into the clandestine service pipeline , real old school, does not mince words.

Edit: Here is an excerpt, he was Chief of the Latin American Division from 1981-1984, Iran-Contra unfortunately is the primary event he is known for during his 30 + year career.


"My plan was simple," he writes. "1. Take the war to Nicaragua. 2. Start killing Cubans." While admitting that the plan to kill Cubans "undoubtedly sounds harsh," Clarridge explains that "I certainly didn't intend to go out of my way to find Cubans in Nicaragua to kill. The idea was to make them pay for their involvement in Nicaragua, in the hope that they'd find it too expensive and get out." The plan, Clarridge reports, "was exactly what Casey wanted to hear."

In a chapter titled "Going to War" Clarridge provides a behind-the-scenes view of the genesis of the contra program. To assist in training the guerrilla force, the CIA reached out to Argentina's military. Clarridge journeyed to Buenos Aires to arrange the secret training with Lt. Gen. Leopoldo Galtieri, who was then commander in chief of the armed forces but would soon become president. "Our session began at 10:30 a.m. with several rounds of whiskey," Clarridge writes. The Argentines were already at work against the Sandinistas, and a few discussions were all that was necessary to set up cooperation with the CIA. At the final meeting between Clarridge and Galtieri, "a couple of rounds of whiskey were followed by a handshake that sealed our relationship."

Lol, kind of nostaligic for the days when we had as the KGB used to say, a "glovny prodivnik", principal adversary, stuff is so complex these days.p-)

Forgive me if I butchered the Russian it's been a while.

FT

[Kilo1-1]

This guys probably pulling security outside of the vehicle. I'm sure his extra kit and ammo are with the vehicle..

Looks like they are securing an LZ...

Ha ha, I haven't used vehicles in airsoft yet..but seems like a good idea.. except I don't want dents on it. Likewise, carrying as much ammo during PSD would be more beneficial than leaving it on the vehicle, as the vehicle could get hit by a RPG when you're not in it...
Where's the moderator that's an actual PSD guy? Was it Argyll or something? I'm sure he kwow's the "Do's and Don'ts".

[GatorRaider]

Original idea, and would be interesting to see. But I can see it would be difficult to do, might work in a big weekend game though.
Yeah, the tradecraft/interpreter element, I don't expect will really come into play all that often. But Mindgame Productions, who run games all around Florida, usually try to include at least a little bit of roleplaying into their ops. I figure it'd be fun to get a little into it.

[RGRBOX]

Ha ha, I haven't used vehicles in airsoft yet..but seems like a good idea.. except I don't want dents on it. Likewise, carrying as much ammo during PSD would be more beneficial than leaving it on the vehicle, as the vehicle could get hit by a RPG when you're not in it...
Where's the moderator that's an actual PSD guy? Was it Argyll or something? I'm sure he kwow's the "Do's and Don'ts".

I'll tell you this.. after weeks, and months of doing the job, you adapt, and work differently.. not always in 100% uniform.. but in a modified uniform, that works best for the job...

[Kilo1-1]

Agreed. What you speak of is correct.

[James]

If you're meeting a helicopter in the middle of the open desert you can probably get away with not having a RACK on. You'll see threats when they're several clicks away. It's also quite possible that there was an Apache orbiting while the Chinooks unloaded.

[RGRBOX]

If you're meeting a helicopter in the middle of the open desert you can probably get away with not having a RACK on. You'll see threats when they're several clicks away. It's also quite possible that there was an Apache orbiting while the Chinooks unloaded.

An C130 gunships, B52s.. a sh.it load of other troopers not seen in the pic.. I guess you have had to of done one before to know it..

Very good point James..

[James]

Ha ha, I haven't used vehicles in airsoft yet..but seems like a good idea.. except I don't want dents on it. Likewise, carrying as much ammo during PSD would be more beneficial than leaving it on the vehicle, as the vehicle could get hit by a RPG when you're not in it...
Where's the moderator that's an actual PSD guy? Was it Argyll or something? I'm sure he kwow's the "Do's and Don'ts".

If you're hit while moving (if you're on a PSD) you run away, you don't stop and fight. You also shouldn't leave a vehicle unattended in an unsecure location once you've gotten to wherever it is you're going.

I've never played airsoft, but I am curious how a "PSD Game" would work... you're driving along, someone shoots bbs at you, and you drive away quickly? Or, you pretend your vehicle is disabled and you jump in the lead/trail vehicle and drive away? Or run away on foot?

You know what would be funny, make the biggest, fattest person playing in the game your principle.

[Kilo1-1]

If you're hit while moving (if you're on a PSD) you run away, you don't stop and fight. You also shouldn't leave a vehicle unattended in an unsecure location once you've gotten to wherever it is you're going.

I've never played airsoft, but I am curious how a "PSD Game" would work... you're driving along, someone shoots bbs at you, and you drive away quickly? Or, you pretend your vehicle is disabled and you jump in the lead/trail vehicle and drive away? Or run away on foot?

You know what would be funny, make the biggest, fattest person playing in the game your principle.

I've never done a PSD scenario with vehicles before, so I can't say much. Perhaps there are others who have done this before? I see it being potentially dangerous using vehicles in PSD scenarios, as someone might get ran over by the vehicle, heh.

[TacoDelRio]

You know what would be funny, make the biggest, fattest person playing in the game your principle.

I've done that. It's not nearly so fun as it is funny.

Depending on their girth, you might need a few vests for them to stay protected. Lard doesn't slow rounds down much. ;)

[RGRBOX]

I played airsoft once.. people who play that game, don't likeit very much when you bayonet someone for real.. or buttstock someone to the face.. but the best is me offereing to play, but only if I can play with my Colt Commando (Real Weapon).. people just don't have a sence of humor..

[Kilo1-1]

You could buy some blanks and start "shooting" at them. Then they'll be really peeved.

[RGRBOX]

You could buy some blanks and start "shooting" at them. Then they'll be really peeved.

yeh... in their pants... most of the air soft people I know know nothing about the military.. they carry some great kit, that they have no idea how to use, or why they carry it.. it's just that kool facture.. when i played airsoft once, all of the guys were running around all kitted up, and they had a 0 level of fitness. I just camoed up, put on a pair of balistic glasses, and went at it.. I never got shot, nor killed, and I hardly shot any rounds, I never shot full auto, and I walked every where, (Forest). I used the skilles I'd learned in the Army, and bingo... I was the last man standing at the end of the day...

[TacoDelRio]

yeh... in their pants... most of the air soft people I know know nothing about the military.. they carry some great kit, that they have no idea how to use, or why they carry it.. it's just that kool facture.. when i played airsoft once, all of the guys were running around all kitted up, and they had a 0 level of fitness. I just camoed up, put on a pair of balistic glasses, and went at it.. I never got shot, nor killed, and I hardly shot any rounds, I never shot full auto, and I walked every where, (Forest). I used the skilles I'd learned in the Army, and bingo... I was the last man standing at the end of the day...

:)

Sounds like airsoft to me. Guns and gear, and a beer belly. Nothing against it obviously, but if you know what's going on, it's easy to dominate your opponents.

It's funny.

[RGRBOX]

:)

Sounds like airsoft to me. Guns and gear, and a beer belly. Nothing against it obviously, but if you know what's going on, it's easy to dominate your opponents.

It's funny.

What do you mean beer belly... sure I'm getting old and all..