Mind your business

[shocker1]

Judge Still Can't Decide Whether To Muzzle Shooting Club
John Pless (jpless@newschannel9.com)
April 21,2006
Two months ago a shooting range in southern Bradley County was ordered to shut down but the shotgun blasts continue, as does the frustration by neighbors who did not get any help from a judge Friday.

Right now lawyers are arguing the meaning of words written in the lawbooks. Some bigger issues are at stake like gun owner rights and whether Bradley County has the authority to enforce it's own regulations.

But in the meantime the shooting will continue.

Neighbor Sandra Walden left the Chancery Court room saying "I'm very frustrated."

On the other hand John B. Helms left saying "I feel pretty good about it."

Four years ago Helms signed a deal to lease his farmland to David Wilson Jr. from Gold Point Circle in Chattanooga to open the Flint Springs Sporting Clays, LLC.

A year later they got Bradley County Commissioners to give them a permit to operate the club, saying then just a few guys and their friends would shoot.

But the club went public, soliciting paying members on the internet and promoting a statewide shooting competition coming up in July.

The county's Planning Commission revoked their permit in February and they got written orders from county attorney Barrett Painter to cease and desist.

Walden said the shooting continues six days a week from sun up to sun down "and in fact they changed to a different type of shot so that it's even louder than it was before."

Chancellor Jerri Bryant heard from the clubs' attorney John Harris III, who also represents lobbyists for the National Rifle Association along with other gun owners associations.

He said the law is not clear on several issues. "The ordinace doesn't distinguish between the rights of people to use their own land, to shoot on it, and what becomes different and makes it a range that's regulated."

Harris also said his interpretation of the law is that there is no set of standards in Bradley County's zoning ordinance, and county officials have no power to enforce certain kinds of regulations.

The courts are going to have to deal with another big issue not too far down the road.

It's the Shooting Range Protection Act passed by the Tennessee legislature in 1995 and ammended in 2004. It gives legal protection to places like Flint Springs Sporting Clays against regulation of things like noise and other nuisances.

"Shooting ranges are beneficial just like rock quarries, airports, railroad tracks, because what they do is encourage people to go to a safe area, designated, monitored and built for shooting," Harris said.

There are other questions about laws relating to these issues that remain unanswered.

Nearby homeowners in southern Bradley County are left with questions about lead from spent gunfire polluting groundwater, and the constant noise.

Denise Reed, who lives about a half mile from Flint Springs, said "I would invite them to purchase my home and live in the area."

Southern Bradley County is experiencing a boom of residential development on land that up until now was primarily used for farming. But issues with constant shotgun blast noise from Flint Springs and the foul stench from existing and new chicken houses is causing a lot of concern among people who have recently invested in homes.

Chancellor Jerri Bryant will speak with lawyers involved with the Flint Springs case by telephone Tuesday and decide whether to close the shooting club.

Meanwhile their lawyers are appealing other issues, so this case is far from over.
http://newschannel9.com/engine.pl?station=wtvc&id=4123&template=breakout_story1.shtml&dateformat=%M+%e,%Y

When you move out to the "country" don't complain about the smells and sounds of country life. shocker1

[usmajunk]

oooook

if you didnt want neighbors, you should have bought more land.... somewhere else.

and really, cant they find a way to make those dam chickens smell better? I dont care about free enterprise, my neighbors should do whatever i want.

[Durandal]

The Shooting Range Protection Act was a great law to pass.

There have been so many ranges closed down because of encroaching residential areas...

I'd love to see them win this fight.

I checked out their website...

Looks like a pretty nice mid grade clays range. If they have been in operation for 4 years then lead is not going to be too much of a problem unless they are shooting directly into a creek or marsh. It is also a private club, not a public range, so...who knows how that works...

My guess is, there is a lot of new subdivisions going in nearby and they are pressuring a gun club to close to increase value and sales opportunity...

[shocker1]

Shooting Range Owners Speak Out
Shawn Seymour
July 8,2006
NewsChannel 9 has new information about the controversial shooting range in Bradley County.

Friday, we introduced you to neighbors who want the range shut down. Now NewsChannel 9 takes you to the club to hear the owners speak out.

"We have tried from the beginning to be good neighbors," says Dave Wilson, co-owner of the Flint Springs Sporting Clays Club.

The range this weekend is hosting the Tennessee State Championship, featuring 300 shooters.

"I'm standing here and hearing the gunshots, but it's not offensive to me."

But this gunfire is offensive to neighbors, who also say lead from ammunition is contaminating ground water. The club sits in a well-head that supplies water to nearby homes and Cleveland Utilities.

"The club has done everything according to the law, and that we're perfectly legal doing what we're doing here."

Earlier this year, Bradley County zoning and planning officials ordered the club and its members to stop shooting.

But in April, a judge ruled the club can continue operating until issues like gun and property rights are settled in the courts.

"The Second Amendment is important, family recreation is important, and we need to have a place for people to shoot guns," says State Senator Doug Jackson (D-****son), an avid shooter.

Jackson also co-sponsored a revision of Tennessee's Range Protection Act in 2004, which allows farmland to be used as private shooting clubs.

"And that's where we're going to hang our hats right now," Wilson adds.

So what's next? Well, that's not clear. No dates have been set yet for future court hearings on this issue.

Meanwhile, neighbors say they're trying to get environmental and utility officials to ask the club to switch to steel shot ammunition. They say it's a safer option.



http://newschannel9.com/engine.pl?station=wtvc&id=5327&template=breakout_story1.shtml&dateformat=%M+%e,%Y

[Hollis]

What I read is that the range owner was not up front. A few friends to a lot is not honest.

"A year later they got Bradley County Commissioners to give them a permit to operate the club, saying then just a few guys and their friends would shoot."

If they (country planning) offered a conditional use permit, it should have stipulated terms of operations, such as number of shooters, times etc.

I wonder if the county has a noise abatement ordinance? Sounds like a big mess.

[John Crighton]

"Southern Bradley County is experiencing a boom of residential development on land that up until now was primarily used for farming. But issues with constant shotgun blast noise from Flint Springs and the foul stench from existing and new chicken houses is causing a lot of concern among people who have recently invested in homes"

The real issue here. City people moving into the country and wanting it to be like the city. I will be at a private shooting event this comming weekend. I would bet the farm that within an hour the Sheriff will be there (again) and say "yep, it all looks good, people need to learn that you can do this in the country, have fun"

If the noise was there before you moved in, deal with it.

[California Joe]

I think it's clear that both sides have problems. Like Hollis said, a few buddies shooting is a lot different than a commercial enterprise. But as has also been stated, you don't like chicken sh*t and gunfire don't move to an area with chicken farms and a gun range. Do some research. You know the real estate developers don't bring it up in the sales pitch. When I worked at a navy base in Indian Head Md. we had some propellent blow in a storage berm. It blew straight up as designed but it made a helluva noise at 2:00 in the morning. People came out of the woodwork complaining about contamination, asbestos, dangerous explosives etc....The place has been there about 130 years....Newsflash, YOU moved in next to an explosives factory, they don't make gummi bears there....

[annihilation]

I think it's clear that both sides have problems. Like Hollis said, a few buddies shooting is a lot different than a commercial enterprise. But as has also been stated, you don't like chicken sh*t and gunfire don't move to an area with chicken farms and a gun range. Do some research. You know the real estate developers don't bring it up in the sales pitch. When I worked at a navy base in Indian Head Md. we had some propellent blow in a storage berm. It blew straight up as designed but it made a helluva noise at 2:00 in the morning. People came out of the woodwork complaining about contamination, asbestos, dangerous explosives etc....The place has been there about 130 years....Newsflash, YOU moved in next to an explosives factory, they don't make gummi bears there....

x2 so true.

In my town about 10 years ago some idiot and his family bought a home down wind from a family farm. They complained and complained that they couldn't take the smell from the cows and forced him to move the cows some where else. The farm is the oldest farm in the state, WTF.

Similiar **** happened when they built these expensive condos right behind the town dump / officemax + home depot parking lot. A few weeks into moving into the place they come over to where i am working and demand to speak to the manager. I asked for what for he is a busy man. They wanted to complain that when trucks back up they make a beeping noise and they want it to stop. I told them its a law, how else will people know to get out of the way of a truck backing up. Fast forward a few years, they finally passed a noise ordinance, no one on the main road (business strip) can be making noise before 7 am. WTF.

I can't wait to see people demand the town dump to go away. Damn developers are building more condos on the other side of it. I think developers need to get sued for building homes in the wrong place. If they sued the smoking industry they can surely sue these bastards.

[shocker1]

Those were some real num nuts you described complaining about back up alarms.:roll: Nearby Catoosa county Georgia put a stop to developers buying up farms by declaring it a watershed. They had people complaining about the wonderful smells of country life too. The county told them to deal with it. It is very difficult now to buy up large tracks of land here without jumping through many hoops. I for one am glad they are preserving some of the older farm areas.

[annihilation]

Those were some real num nuts you described complaining about back up alarms.:roll: Nearby Catoosa county Georgia put a stop to developers buying up farms by declaring it a watershed. They had people complaining about the wonderful smells of country life too. The county told them to deal with it. It is very difficult now to buy up large tracks of land here without jumping through many hoops. I for one am glad they are preserving some of the older farm areas.

I wish we did the same here. I heard one town in the midwest that made up brochures of there town with scratch and sniff that smelled like cow ****. They said if you don't mind the smell then you are welcome to come live there. If not then don't come.

[martinexsquaddie]

if they were saying its a few people shooting thats one thing but a commercial clay pigeion range is a diffrent matter.
although I had to feel sory for a bloke who'd managed to buy a house on the edge of folkstone military training area and was woken up at 4am as a company attack went in.
how he managed to buy a country retreat without seeing all the caution troops exercising a big four tonner trucks around etc
next time I was exercising there was a for sale sign was up .
estate agent (real estate dealer) was telling the family its really quiet around here. not impressed with our recce wagon turning up and going can get a bit noisy around here .
how noisy
quick burst of blank fire from a gpmg
family leave hurridly
estate agent gets really angry demands to talk to our CO
handed a royal green jackets card (handy having contact details of a completetly diffrent unit )

[Hollis]

There are a number of different issues here. That can cause a problem, if a person lets the issues to over lap.

Oregon has a pretty well defined land use laws, LUBA (land use board of appeals) over sees the land use laws.

1) the range owner was not "honest" or the details of the variance was never published in the article. In the variance a number of issues should have been addressed. Noise should have been one of them.

2) there is a "grand father clause", that allows for existing usages to remain, though the Zoning around it has changed. Example in a town I use to live in, there was a farm in the middle of it. The City had to allow it to be there. The city had no zoning codes for farms, and any future farms are not permitted in the City boundaries. Eventually the Owners moved/past away/sold the property and it was consequently rezoned to fall within allowable city zoning codes.

3) It is all to common that Realtors do not apprise the customer of the down side of buying a piece of property.

[shocker1]

How about this, on Nick A Jack lake alot of people have built new homes. The new owners have complained about the bass tournaments held every weekend because of boat noise and fishing around the docks. TVA told them their property rights ended at the flood line. The did not seem to know that the docks they get permits to build belong to TVA once built on the water. Which gives TVA all rights to regulate whatever they want. Good Job TVA!

[Bia]

"Shooting ranges are beneficial...
...because what they do is encourage people to go to a safe area, designated, monitored and built for shooting," Harris said.

Idealy sure...but that's not always the case.
One recently opened here IN TOWN.....there are 100'000 of undeveloped acres in the tri county area....but right down the street there are explosions going on from sun up to sun down and I hear every single shot when I'm at home.
They have been ordered to close down but are refusing the city councils judgement and now it's headed to court.

And all it is is some guy with about 8 acres has opened up a business.
So all the "Dont move in next to it" talk is just that...TALK.
The neighborhood was here long before the shooting range in our backyards.

I LOVE shooting...I mean it gives me a ***** and I'm not even male.....but I'd be ashamed to be shooting an SKS on 8 acres with homes surrounding the entire property.....very ashamed.

[Arsenal]

Damn developers are building more condos on the other side of it. I think developers need to get sued for building homes in the wrong place. If they sued the smoking industry they can surely sue these bastards.

That's the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. Most, incorporated cities have zoning ordinances that dictate what can be built, where it can be built, and at what density. Cities that don't have their own ordinances are regulated by the county's land use plan. Developers can obtain a variance to build in a location that isn't zoned for their planned use, but it must be approved by the local government board of commissioners.

"Damn developers" build what they think will sell, but no one is going to be forced to purchase the product they construct, so it would stand to reason that they are building there because the population needs housing product. They don't plop down developments willy-nilly on their own accord. Everything is regulated on the local level. If you're going to sue someone, sue the local government.

[Hollis]

" They don't plop down developments willy-nilly on their own accord. Everything is regulated on the local level. If you're going to sue someone, sue the local government.

I was on the planning commission for a while, and Citys are not responsible for developers planning, as long as it zoned that way it is allowable. It is in variances or changes in zoning that planning commissions have power to dictate and control. At least in Oregon.

[Arsenal]

I was on the planning commission for a while, and Citys are not responsible for developers planning, as long as it zoned that way it is allowable. It is in variances or changes in zoning that planning commissions have power to dictate and control. At least in Oregon.

That's my point. Developers don't just choose a piece of land and build whatever they want to on it. It has to be zoned for that use. The complaint earlier was about "damn developers" building condos, when in reality, it is the planning commission who is responsible for what is allowed to be built, and where.

[Bia]

That's my point. Developers don't just choose a piece of land and build whatever they want to on it. It has to be zoned for that use. The complaint earlier was about "damn developers" building condos, when in reality, it is the planning commission who is responsible for what is allowed to be built, and where.
And your point was also well taken that the massive majority dont just throw things up on a whim.....that kind of money invested.... most build where it's needed.

[California Joe]

Bia, in the case I cited people were actually moving into bungalows etc. that were originally built for explosives workers, the Navy makes no secret about what was produced there, hell, the EOD school used to be located there. That alone, is a recipe for loud noises at inoportune moments. I found out the other day that they tore down the old elementary school about 500 yards from the base entrance and have put up 4 story townhouses that are selling for over 450,000 dollars. People are that desperate to get out of DC I guess.

[annihilation]

Bia, in the case I cited people were actually moving into bungalows etc. that were originally built for explosives workers, the Navy makes no secret about what was produced there, hell, the EOD school used to be located there. That alone, is a recipe for loud noises at inoportune moments. I found out the other day that they tore down the old elementary school about 500 yards from the base entrance and have put up 4 story townhouses that are selling for over 450,000 dollars. People are that desperate to get out of DC I guess.

Everyone is trying to get out of the city. I live in CT and you can see the new yorkers move down the I-95 highway. First it was greenwich, then stamford, then norwalk, then bridgeport (5-ish years ago), and i soon expect them to be going to startford.

More affordable housing and better family living than what you would get in the city.