Solution To End IEDs in Iraq

[Sayeret]

bomb sniffing dogs


In the 1980's and the early 1990's, most clashes between the IDF and the guerilla organizations in the region were direct soldiers to soldiers skirmishes. However, since the under-trained and under-equipped guerilla organizations usually lost in such direct engagements, they chose the easier way of placing explosives charges in the roads leading from the Israeli -Lebanese border to the posts.

At first the explosives were rather big, low power and wire activated, so the IDF soldiers could easily locate and destroy the explosives in more conventional methods. But in the mid 1990's the explosives became small, wireless and very effective, causing dozens of casualties each year.

Unit Oket'z began limited anti explosives training in the late 1980's, and in the early 1990's the first dedicate Explosives Team was formed. In 1997, as the explosives charges became the number one reason for Israeli soldiers' deaths in Lebanon, more teams were added and the Explosives Palga was formed.

After the Palga creation, a handler and his dog from the Explosives Palga took point in every major convoy in Lebanon. The Palga also had its own small compounds in almost every major post in Lebanon with at least two handlers and their dogs.

During the IDF stay in Lebanon, the handlers and their dogs work was most effective. They were able to discover and expose more then hundred explosives each year. The dogs and their handlers were even considered a premium target to the terrorists due to their success.

Moreover, despite the massive increase in the amount of explosives placed against IDF troops in the late 1990's, the IDF casualties' rate didn't clime as well. This IDF fixed casualties statistics is the most vivid proof of the Palga success.

[Argyll]

like the IRA they wait until the dogs have passed,then plant the IEDs

[Maverick77]

Unfortunatly your going to take casualties from IEDs the U.S has done a good job of limiting them but they happen when theres hundreds of them planted every day.

[usa320]

Between added armor on the vehicles (especially floor plating), Dogs, New electronic detection equipment and robots, it does look like we are losing less folks to IED's.

[wholagun]

a few months back there was an assasination attempt at Prevez Musahafs motorcade. The single thing that saved his life was a distrupter device that was able to block the singal to the bomb planted on the bridge where the car was driving. The terrorist plan was to blow the car with him in it on the bridge but it didn't work thanks to the jamming device. After the car passed the bridge the bomb went BOOM and no one was hurt.

Why can't the army just get alot of those signal jammers and distrupters?

[wiggle]

Dogs?????? Thats your solution to IED's Yeah I guess we will herd packs of elite bomb training dogs across every acre of Iraq.......and then once we have every square inch sniffed we'll start over again. Every available K9 unit is already deployed. And not all IED's are command detonated

[Ghostwolf]

Sniffer dogs will not work againt remote controlled IEDs(RCIEDs) because
once the dogs and their trainers get close to the device, they will be killed.
Most of these RCIEDs are explosive devices wired to remote controlled
car alarm, and all a terrorist has to do is watch the convoy or patrolling soldiers go pass by the device, and then press the button.

One way to avoid RCIED without risking personnel lives is by using signal
jammer. Radio controlled devices (RC airplanes, toys, car alarms etc...)
operates at a particular band of frequency range, by jamming the
frequency the detonation of IED can be delayed. The terrorists in Pakistan
tried twice to assassinate Pervez Musharraf but both failed. First time they
used remoted detonated truck bomb and it didn't explode until about one
minute later, when his convoy was well far away from the device. The
reason was one of his convoy cars was equipped with signal jammer,
which delays the transmission of the detonation signal.

[Nizark]

a few months back there was an assasination attempt at Prevez Musahafs motorcade. The single thing that saved his life was a distrupter device that was able to block the singal to the bomb planted on the bridge where the car was driving. The terrorist plan was to blow the car with him in it on the bridge but it didn't work thanks to the jamming device. After the car passed the bridge the bomb went BOOM and no one was hurt.

Why can't the army just get alot of those signal jammers and distrupters?

The funny thing is that the device that saved Musharaf's life was Israeli.

[Gordon]

The funny thing is that the device that saved Musharaf's life was Israeli.

I suppose so, but all sorts of inventions from all round the world have saved lives, maybe i'm missing the point.

[usa320]

Why can't the army just get alot of those signal jammers and distrupters?


They are working ona system, its in operational testing now, that uses Radar to detect explosive devices on the roadside. once sit detects the device, it using reactive armor to counter it.

Its being tested on humvees out in Nevada.

Only probelm with the system quoted in regards to Musharaff is that it will only jam radio detonated explosives. There are still motion detanated ones, and in some cases impact and hand detanated devices. ANd by hand i mean fuses or other rudimentary methrods. **** im drunke and kcant type tonite.

[Colonel Flagg]

I have had a number of discussions with both Police and Defense Force Dog Handlers(including the training of my Rottweiler by one instructor)....and I was quite surprised with what I learned:

Dogs are like people, in that dogs can be just as lazy, uncooperative, distracted, and stubborn....meaning at times...quite ineffective..

Also, having dogs in an AO tends to have a distinct psychological effect on an opponent(whether Police or Military).....so they can act as a serious deterrent, without even having to work for it.

It will be interesting to compare well trained dogs and electronic "sniffing" devices...for effectiveness and utility...once they're widely fielded.

[wiggle]

I've worked with K9 in the desert and trust me you think its hot for people those dogs dont give a **** after a little while out in the baking sun. Not to mention depending on the Dog they can have a hell of a lot of hair and that doesn't help much when its pushing 140.

[EODSGT]

Nizark,
how do you know the ECM set that was used was Israeli in origin? Just curious.

[Argyll]

We have something we used in NI,which was theoretically supposed to work aginst RCIED's...it wasn't Isreali either ;)

[NcDeuce]

Before IF began, one of our cadre who was EOD warned us that these will be the big killers for future conflicts. Turns out to be the case, sadly.

[Argyll]

these guys are catching on,a few months ago it was some arty shells and some PE,now they're using 1000lb car bombs,and ther'es plentyof SEMTEX out there to make thousands of these devices..........scary time ahead !

[EODSGT]

Argyll,
That's it - I quit! rofl

[ibstolidude]

Also, having dogs in an AO tends to have a distinct psychological effect on an opponent(whether Police or Military)..... - considering the Islamic view of dogs I bet it would

[usa320]

See i feel that that first wave of bombing attacks, the IED's and what not, were more than likely carried out by Baathists and Sadam Loyalists, as they were crude explosives made from crude materials.

The car bombings on the other hand definately point towards Terrorist groups, as they are far more complex and involved C-4 and SEMTEX.

[EODSGT]

I'll be sure to point that out to the CEXE cell. I'm sure they had no idea. :roll:

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

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[Mr Gently Benevolent]

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[Mr Gently Benevolent]

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[Mr Gently Benevolent]

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[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Also, having dogs in an AO tends to have a distinct psychological effect on an opponent(whether Police or Military)..... - considering the Islamic view of dogs I bet it would
They are not so keen on having them in the home but that attitude will vary from region to region, a K9 search of an Iraqi home will get them worked up no end but do little to prevent them carrying out acts against coalition troops.

[Maverick77]

New Record

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Don't ask :cantbeli:

[shrek]

In Afgh. we used a system to thwart the radio detonated IED's. However, after urning up a few receivers we realized that the signal that it put it was so powerful that all radio traffic had to cease while it was in use. If you guys haven't seen them yet I have some incredible footage of a armored hummer that got blown in half with my friends in it (none died) and a video of the second IED going off under another hummer a little later. I just have to figure out how to get them to you. Trigger is helping me!!

[shrek]

http://www.pbase.com/shrek212/ied

Check this out and tell me if it works!

[Haiw]

Awww what a waste of a nice humvee... :D lucky no one got hurt.

[EODSGT]

Shrek,
Nice pics! That must have been a LARGE charge, the up armoreds are pretty stuot. I'm glad no one got hurt, that's not a ride I'd want to take.

Yeah, the magic box stomps all over any other source of RF - which really sucks if you'd like to talk to someone by radio or run your robot without cable. You also have to watch where you set it in relation to electricly initiated explosive items (caps, carts,etc.), EMR and all that.

[IDFM203]

Nizark,
how do you know the ECM set that was used was Israeli in origin? Just curious. That’s a good question.

I myself remember reading some reports that it was an Israeli device and I also have seen others where none of it was mentioned.

Of course its hard to verify (as these types of things usually are ;) ) and if indeed it was actually an Israeli device, the reporting of it would be hard to get considering Pakistan’s relations with Israel.

Here is a interesting article from debka.com where they discuss a CIA device and an Israeli device.......

I was hoping to find those articles that I mentioned before, but I couldn’t find them now so all I have is this debka article.

I guess people can draw their own conclusions though regardless, its a interesting article, especially for us military folks (and enthusiasts if there are still any left amidst all the politics on this forum ;) )

Lastly there is no doubt that Israeli companies are at a leading edge with these kind of devices and have developed these kinds of devices for years now (as some other nations as well, as is mentioned in this article), though whether an Israeli device was the one that saved Pakistan’s president or not, is not something that can easily be confirmed.


Al Qaeda’s determined assassination attempts on Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf on December 14 and again on the 25th bring to mind an ominous sequence that preceded the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 on New York and Washington. Two days earlier, on September 9, al Qaeda assassins murdered Ahmad Shah Massoud, semi-legendary leader of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden and his chief lieutenant, Dr Ayman Zawahiri, sent a group of suicide bombers to pose as journalists and kill Massoud while pretending to interview him. A bomb hidden in either a belt or a television camera detonated and killed the opposition leader, famous for his role in the campaign to drive the Red Army out of the country in the late 1980s and with a good chance of ousting the Taliban-al Qaeda regime.
To subscribe to DEBKA-Net-Weekly click HERE .
The Afghan hero’s assassination turned out to have been a pre-emptive tactic of al Qaeda’s for wiping out America’s chief ally in Afghanistan and so undercutting the Bush administration’s retaliatory resources in advance of its horrendous airborne suicide strikes in the United States.
In December 2003, Osama bin Laden looked as though he was repeating his pre-9/11 ploy against President Musharraf – except that this time, he did not pull it off. Western nations under threat fortified themselves with preventive measures to fend off a major terror strike in the holiday season, while at the same time forearming the Pakistani president with the latest protective gadgetry. This episode has important applications also for Israel’s defenses against terror.
Sunday, December 28, Pakistani information minister, Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed, identified two of the suicide bombers who failed to murder Musharraf as belonging to Kashmiri and Afghan militant groups – the little known Kashmiri Al Jehad and Pakistan’s North Western Frontier Province which borders on Afghanistan.
DEBKAfile’s counter-terror experts doubt whether either has the sophistication or inside foothold for mounting the latest attempts on the Pakistani ruler.
The ever-present menace facing pro-American world leaders is exacerbated by the advances made by the Osama bin Laden’s international network in the penetration of certain countries’ security and intelligence services. Where does al Qaeda get its deep intelligence on the innermost security and secrets of its targets? This question has never been satisfactorily answered since 9/11. The capability stood out starkly in both attacks on the Pakistani ruler. The FBI has therefore seen fit to join the Musharraf investigation so as to draw lessons applicable for the protection of other world leaders, as well as establishing which of the newly developed high-tech gadgets worked best for saving the Pakistani leader’s life.
As reported in DEBKA-Net-Weekly 139 of Dec. 27, it is a realistic possibility that al Qaeda’s repeated targeting of Musharraf is part of a larger plan to eliminate pro-Western Arab and Muslim rulers. The Pakistani president was lucky till now, but King Muhammad VI of Morocco and Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia are also thought to be imminent targets as linchpins of America’s global war on terror. Al Qaeda appears to believe that by knocking over key US props within the Arab and Muslim world, it will undermine America’s strategic standing universally.
On December 14, Musharref was driving back to his residence at The Army House from a formal reception in honor of Indonesian president Megawati Sukarnoputri after they had signed a pact to cooperate in the war against terror. The route taken by his motorcade was fixed moments before its departure and was known to no more than three to five trusted security officers. They would have relayed the route to the security forces protecting the president.
To guard against leaks to potential assassins, two or three motorcades routinely set off for the presidential residence along different routes. Two are decoys, one is real. Musharref himself picks the one that will carry him and his personal party home just before he steps into the presidential limousine.
So how did al Qaeda know which motorcade to target?
Their operatives planted two smart bombs, each packed with 275 kgs of explosives and fitted with both a remote control and a timing device to trigger it, under the very bridge crossed by the real motorcade and detonated it at the very moment it passed.
Although they had the right motorcade, the attempt failed.
Musharref himself reported in a Pakistani television-PTV interview after the failed attack that he had heard and felt the blast between 30 seconds and a minute after he crossed the bridge. His bodyguards described a 30-second pause between crossing and blast.
Minute variations in time span are significant, according to DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s counter-terror sources. The Pakistani president’s armor-plated limousine was fitted with high-tech jamming devices that stopped the timer for about a minute and also jammed the remote control. It was enough to let Musharraf cross the bridge safely.
Our sources report that the secret services of the United States, Russia and Israel have developed these devices to protect their leaders and for the use of special forces operating under cover or agents on special assignments.
The gadget in the Pakistani president’s car was supplied by the CIA. Like others of its kind it is not perfect. It cannot detect pulses sent by remote control mechanisms or bomb timers. But it worked perfectly in the first attack on Musharref and saved his life.
In the second attempt, al Qaeda demonstrated that its intelligence penetration of the Pakistani ruler’s inner circle and SIS intelligence was deeper than thought. They hit on a novel method of beating the jamming gear in his car. Instead of bombs and roadside devices, they used two pickup trucks packed with explosives and driven by two suicide killers with bomb-belts strapped to their bodies. To make absolutely sure of getting their victim, they parked the two trucks outside two gas stations fairly close together. The second was timed to detonate during the minute that the first was delayed. Al Qaeda therefore knew about the delaying device which aborted the first assassination attempt. The killers were also supplied with bomb belts. If the truck-bombs failed to explode, the drivers would ram them into the presidential motorcade while detonating their personal explosives at one of the gas stations, so creating a double fire ball from which the target had no hope of escaping alive.
However, realizing that al Qaeda was gunning for him and would try again, the Pakistani ruler was prepared. DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s counter-terror sources report that in addition to the American jamming equipment, the president provided himself with a second gadget designed in Israel especially for detonating explosive belts carried by suicidal terrorists. This gadget is still being developed for the American army in Iraq. Instead of stopping a timer to gain one minute for escape, this system detonates the bomb belt on the terrorist’s body.
Israel’s development of this device has been guided by three objectives:
1. To acquire the ability to pre-empt a suicide bomber by detonating his charge before he reaches target, thereby cutting down casualties.
2. Of late, Palestinian terror groups have taken to using advance parties to conceal a would-be suicide killer’s bomb belt at safe drops like mosques or caves, where he picks it up a short time before he sets out for attack. The new system once perfected can be used to detect a suspected terrorist’s hiding place and blow his belt up before he straps it on.
3. Israeli intelligence has received word of a new weapon developed by al Qaeda and the Lebanese Hizballah in partnership: an explosive that is not activated by the bomber but is preset to blow up at a given time regardless of whether he is caught before he strikes. It also acts as back-up for faulty mechanisms. The two terror groups started working on their pre-timed device after the partial miss of the two British bombers, Muhammed Hanif and Omar Sharif, in their attack on a Tel Aviv bar on April 30, 2003. Hanif blew himself up, while Sharif’s bomb-belt was faulty.
The Israeli device is still experimental. It will undergo further testing before it goes into service.

Debka (http://debka.com/article.php?aid=752)

P.S. To Nizark

I would apprecite it if you had any links to other articles on where it said it was an Israeli device for I have seen them too but cant find them now….thanks in advance.

Shalom :D

[EODSGT]

Nizark,

Interesting article, thanks for posting it. I have only one small problem with it. As far as I know, nothing like the second Israeli device exists.

Suicide bombers use manually triggered explosive belts/vests. So, the device would have to work on the principle of imparting enough EMR(electro magnetic radiation) into an electric cap to get it to fire without the user activating the firing system. This would require a MASSIVE EMR source to work at any sort of distance, and even then, the chances of causing the device to detonate would be hit or miss (mostly miss).

An item like this would squash every other RF device in a much larger area than current systems (ECM) affect. Not very practical - and if it's one thing Israelis are, it's practical.

Also, If the Isrealis had such an item, don't you think they would have it set up at every access control point into Israel? Even if it was only partially reliable. Every other developed nation's EOD force would have a version too - and I haven't ever heard of a device like this in use with anyone. Which doesn't mean I couldn't be comepletely wrong, I just haven't heard of it.

I think he acquired some type of ECM that might have been Israeli in origin, but I think the article mistook the intended purpose or effect of the hardware.

Just my 2 cents.
:D

[EODSGT]

oops :oops: , I just read the last part of the article "it's in development"....yeah, I hope they get it to work some day. Good luck.

[IDFM203]

Firstly I didn’t write the article, though I should at least get some credit for the posting ;) ….oh well.

Secondly ok I hear you and I too had reservations about that article, (as I mentioned I would have preferred another article as I saw before, but this was all I found)

As for that kind of Israeli device existing, well they say it exists, now they certainly can be wrong (and while that is a good site and while they do get a lot of things right they do in fact get things wrong as well) but to unequivocally say that it doesn’t exist would be also misleading.

Remember they said the device is experimental and it is still being worked on, but I can assure you, that all of your points about this kind of device, the Israeli companies that make them, have taken it into account and understand them as well.

As for it being used now, who said it isn’t ;)

For yes indeed even at a experimental stage it most certainly is being fielded by a few select units

So the device is being used and the article goes so far to say that these kind of Israeli devices are in fact being used to protect the prime Minster!!

Anyways as for the Pakistani president having some Israeli device that saved him (even if its not the kind of device that this article pointed out), well besides this article I have seen reports of that in other articles though again these kind of things are hard to verify.

Shalom :D

[Marmot1]

Hey have you heard about using Rats to sniff explosives??? training of such rodent cost about 1000$ comparing 10 000$ to train dog I know that they use them to sniff mines in africa how about using then to sniff IED (certanly it is cheaper to sacrifice rat than dog)

[EODSGT]

IDFM203,

Credit to you on the posting :) . Like I mentioned, I ceratainly could be wrong on my evaluation of the article. I am not the repository of all things EOD - that's BMF EOD's job.

I was just giving my 2 cents as an EOD tech. I certainly allow for any number of programs being in development that I have no idea exist. That includes our R&D guys too - sneaky bastards.

That's the great thing about open source intel, you look at it, mull it over, talk about it, and file it away for future reference. Sometimes it holds real significance, sometimes it don't. It's not gospel, and that's what makes it entertaining.

[EODSGT]

Marmot,

The Navy has two seperate mammal systems for underwater ops. I think your right - it's time the Army had it's own mammal system. They have the dolphins and sea lions - I think we should have the M1A1 Rodent Assistant to the Technician - R.A.T for short. It would be a great investment for Army R&D dollars.

When they give me a big bonus for the proposal, I'll name the first R.A.T. prototype after you - I promise. ;)

All kidding aside, I don't think it's a bad idea. We have plenty of other animals working for the military, why not another system?

[IDFM203]

IDFM203,

Credit to you on the posting :) . You know I have a hard time reading this ;) …I am not sure you understood what I meant by that…..hint; check out your first post after my article and see who you addressed it to…that is all

As for credit in general, I usually don’t ask for it nor do I need it, though it would be nice to at least not confuse a post of mine for someone’s else’s…that is all that I was referring to ;)

Like I mentioned, I certainly could be wrong on my evaluation of the article. I am not the repository of all things EOD - that's BMF EOD's job.

I was just giving my 2 cents as an EOD tech. and I as well can be wrong in my evaluation of the article and about the subject in general and in fact I concede that you as a EOD tech do have a “leg up” so to speak over me when it comes to the technicals of these devices.

All I can go on is on these open source articles and like with how you draw and conclude based on what you read and know, so do I and I have come to a conclusion that it is very probable that Pakistan’s leader did have some Israeli device with some other nations device as well.

Again all this is very hard to confirm but that is only my general assessment based on what I have read and seen so far.


I certainly allow for any number of programs being in development that I have no idea exist. That includes our R&D guys too - sneaky bastards. sneaky bastards indeed, but boy do those snaky bastards come out with great ideas and devices every now and then ;)

That's the great thing about open source intel, you look at it, mull it over, talk about it, and file it away for future reference. Sometimes it holds real significance, sometimes it don't. It's not gospel, and that's what makes it entertaining. yes and to add, all this even allows a non EOD tech like me to be able to discuss and debate these types of things based on all this open source material

Truly fascinating stuff to talk and debate about.

Interesting indeed.

Shalom to you :D

[George W. Bush]

The only long-term solution to IED is to find the IED makers, cut off their balls, and shove them down their throat.

[Marmot1]

Marmot,

The Navy has two seperate mammal systems for underwater ops. I think your right - it's time the Army had it's own mammal system. They have the dolphins and sea lions - I think we should have the M1A1 Rodent Assistant to the Technician - R.A.T for short. It would be a great investment for Army R&D dollars.

When they give me a big bonus for the proposal, I'll name the first R.A.T. prototype after you - I promise. ;)

All kidding aside, I don't think it's a bad idea. We have plenty of other animals working for the military, why not another system?

M1A1 "Marmot" R.A.T woot

btw I heard about dolphins but sea lions??? for what?

[EODSGT]

George,
As always, it's a delight to hear from you. Thanks for dropping by.

I'm going to add IED designer/builder sniffing capabilities to the R.A.T.'s training regime. That should facilitate more de-testicularization and throat stuffing.

The R.A.T.'s will be issued 2 per ODA to assist in surveillence and interdiction.

[EODSGT]

Marmot,

The dophins are used in undewater EOD and Antiswimmer activities. I'm not sure what the Sea lions are for, I just know they have them. I think they also experimented with other sea animals in the past - a Navy tech would have a much better idea. BMF EOD - You out there?

The M1A2 - "Marmot plus" will be the equivelent antipersonell system in the Army inventory. I just have to invent a GPS harness I can attach to them to fire GPS guided munitions at once they find the IED builders. Like you said - they should be cheap, we'll just train more :lol:

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Has anyone got any more photos of vehicles destroyed by IED's or terrorists/guerrilla's emplaceing IED's, etc ?. I'm giving a lesson to my unit soon and I want to incorporate some actual examples into the instructional objectives. I've got that slide show of the June 2003 ambush in iraq and the hezbollah pics from 'todays pics' Mar 19 and also a couple of short videos but more is always better.

And yes I am 'googleing'.

[EODSGT]

what kind of unit - who's military?

[Sayeret]

http://sftt.org/JPG/article07312003010.jpg

http://sftt.org/JPG/article07312003006.jpg

http://sftt.org/JPG/article07312003007.jpg

http://sftt.org/JPG/article07312003008.jpg

This is from Afghanistan

http://image.pbase.com/u42/shrek212/upload/27078270.IMAG0027B.jpg

http://image.pbase.com/u42/shrek212/large/27078279.ied2blocked.jpg

The last two images came from the poster shrek. The images before that were from a previous post. Here are some more images:

http://truthout.org/imgs.art_01/3.irq.celb.burn.tnkr.jpg

I'm not sure if this tanker was destroyed by an IED.

http://www.brandonblog.com/blog-capt.1062855242.jpg

http://www.brandonblog.com/blog-capt.1062854705.jpg

http://www.brandonblog.com/blog-capt.1062852730.jpg

http://www.directsourceradio.com/links/0820200301_files/IRAQ-7.sff_XSG102_20030819123526.jpg

http://www.directsourceradio.com/links/0820200301_files/IRAQ-7.sff_XSG101_20030819123607.jpg

An M1A2 Sep destroyed by a heavy IED.

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/Irak/M1_1.jpg

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/Irak/M1_2.jpg

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/Irak/M1_3.jpg

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/Irak/M1_4.jpg

http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/Irak/M1_5.jpg

Here are some more pictures of roadside bombs

http://lc7250.free.fr/photo/Roadsidebomb1.jpg

http://lc7250.free.fr/photo/livre.jpg

http://lc7250.free.fr/photo/drum-large.gif

http://lc7250.free.fr/photo/Roadsidebomb2.jpg

The following are some pictures of some Palestinian terrorists placing a IED to destroy a tank.

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3101702.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE1FEDD51D3F6F71234ED8DA6706905A3E

http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3101685.jpg?x=x&a=3101685&b=editorial&t=1

http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3101686.jpg?x=x&a=3101686&b=editorial&t=1

http://cache.*****images.com/thumb/3101687.jpg?x=x&a=3101687&b=editorial&t=1

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3101698.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DEF87A67CB2A7860912E95B8A734633464

http://cache.*****images.com/comp/3102843.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=F73E2F96DB4058EB36AAA201C6C7005B

Ngati Tumatuenga I hope these pictures help you with what your doing.

[gilgoul]

Sniffer dogs will not work againt remote controlled IEDs(RCIEDs) because
once the dogs and their trainers get close to the device, they will be killed.
Most of these RCIEDs are explosive devices wired to remote controlled
car alarm, and all a terrorist has to do is watch the convoy or patrolling soldiers go pass by the device, and then press the button.

One way to avoid RCIED without risking personnel lives is by using signal
jammer. Radio controlled devices (RC airplanes, toys, car alarms etc...)
operates at a particular band of frequency range, by jamming the
frequency the detonation of IED can be delayed. The terrorists in Pakistan
tried twice to assassinate Pervez Musharraf but both failed. First time they
used remoted detonated truck bomb and it didn't explode until about one
minute later, when his convoy was well far away from the device. The
reason was one of his convoy cars was equipped with signal jammer,
which delays the transmission of the detonation signal.

The jamming system has been used for years yet by the IDF< but it seems that the dogs are working pretty well when used in conjunction with other means
I actually work with a guy whi up to 8 month ago used to chase IED in GAZA with his dog, apparentky with some results

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

what kind of unit - who's military?

Rifle company - Royal New Zealand Army.

You know, from the country sending fifty SAS back to Afghanistan soon.

Thanks Sayeret, i've got most of those already but the close ups of IED's showing how innocuous they look are excellent.

[EODSGT]

Ngati Tumatuenga,

I have a bunch of stuff, but it's FOUO - so, I can't post it or transmit it to folks I don't know, sorry brother.

Are there any EOD guys near you that you could request assistance from?

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Understood EODSGT, and I would'nt expect you too, thanks anyway. Its still very informative reading these posts. As IDFM203 said very interesting indeed.
Unfortunately no one around here has quite the up to date experience IED wise that others in this forum do and i've found in the past that open source info can be very useful if your cautious about verifying it first.

[EODSGT]

Good luck, and I hope your training class goes really well. :)

[16 OBr SpN]

Well, I think the solution to IED's is a combination of many factors.
The bomb sniffing dogs, signal jamming equipment, sappers, etc. are all just a part of the whole approach, and cannot be the solutions by themselves, you see. These are just "medicines for the symptoms", but not the whole "sickness".

Another important aspect is counter-intelligence. Successful counter-intelligence measures are what would bring down the numbers of attacks.

Local geographical features are also important.
Patrolling and securing an open area is much different than the same measures in the dense urban terrain: roads, buildings, traffic, lots of people. Controlling a large city like Baghdad is a very hard task. Am I mistaking or do the most IED attacks in Iraq happen in urban terrain?

Some people state that the further sophistication of IED's in Iraq is the result of terrorist/Al-Qaeda involvement. IMO, that's only partially true. You see, the Iraqi army had many of its officers who served in Soviet/Russian military schools. There were/are many demolitions experts among them.

Where do you think the terrorists gain their knowledge from? They get it from different militaries, not vice versa. They read, analyze and colligate the field manuals, and regulations, then "tune" them to their specific theater of operations.

BTW, does anyone have info on types of radio detonators being used?

Regards,
16 OBr SpN

[hist2004]

Guerrillas frequently rig remote-controlled detonators out of garage door openers, car alarm remotes or cell phones.

Regards & Thanks,
Hist2004

[LKSXXX]

Is it OK if I bring this subject up again?
I'm gonna paste what I said on another thread.
I'd really like to hear you guys pointing out the problems to my "solution".

I don't think RPGs are so troublesome, but dealing with them is great progress. IED's are the real challenge to the US Military currently since there's no "IED detector".
Would high investment on wider concrete roads (with concrete side walks) make it easier to spot the IEDs? Or would that just encourage the insurgents to pack more explosives to increase the destruction range? The way I see it, if the coalition had started doing that since 2003, maybe 70% of the streets in Iraq could have been concreted by now. Not to mention the amount of jobs this would've created and therefore giving people something to do with their lives.
VBIED's can be dealt with by improving public transportation, aleviating a bit of the traffic in Bahgdad and thus making it easier to implement multiple checkpoints around Bahgdad. But would also create potential targets for suicide bombings (maybe bus lines with ittinerarys covering all neibourhoods?).
A system that tracks car ownership could help too by making it more difficult for the Iraqis to get hold of cars without being eventually traced.
Then again, I'm not an expert and I've never been to Iraq so there's probably a lot more variables to consider. I'm certainly not trying to act like a smart ass. I'm just giving my opinion and would really like to hear your views.

LKS.

[deagle]

yea, but wat happens if the team sniffs around an IED, and an insurgent triggers it ? Then who'll sniff out IED's ? I thnk best bet is IED-detecting bots (prob to sci-fi for this generation). Then let another EOD bot take care of it or something. Of course, i don't discount the effectiveness of canine teams.

[LKSXXX]

I think IED's are very "terrain intensive", meaning, the insurgents need to dig a hole in order to conceal the device, that's where my suggestion of more concrete roads comes in. Widening the roads means convoys would be more distant from the explosion, increasing survivability. Therefore, denying the insurgents advantage (terrain) would contribute to curb the spreading of IED's.

In highly urbanized places (with tighter streets and alleys), counting on population cooperation and effective means to limit debris/garbage accumulation on the streets could help. If people aren't cooperating, the problem is a bit higher then. Maybe a "reward system" for those who find or see people planting IED's could increase the ammount of information.
IED's planted in these areas would require some kind of population consent.

LKS.

P.S.: Since these "rewards" could be turned into a buissness by the insurgency, "hard cash" should be avoided. Services provided by the Army (construction), food, etc... in general, life quality improvements could deal with this.