Pandur 6x6 used by the US Army!?

[Till Eulenspiegel]

It seems that someone in the US Army acquired a number of 6x6 APC's and 6x6 trucks. These are the two pictures I have of them in use by the US Army:



The APC: The strange thing is that it looks very much like the Pandur 6x6 and indeed has it's seperate double rear hatches (seen in a video I do not have) in the dropping tailgate (So you can open the doors or drop the whole thing) like so:

HOWEVER, they also use the Piranha I/II style 6x6 driver "windshield". Just like this:

Ok, we know that both MOWAG (Makers of the Piranha) and Steyr Spezialfahrzeug are owned by General Dynamics Land Systems under their ELCS division.
See here: http://www.generaldynamics.com/prod_serv/Default.htm

However, the only one of the two lines that is also offered by good ol' domestic GD Land Systems is the Pandur 6x6:
Click the Land Systems link in the above page or just go here:
http://www.gdls.com/programs/pandur.html

They got 6x6 Pandurs and added a driver's windshield/armor ala Piranha? I think that is most likely since GDLS even admits that the US Army has them in service and the Piranha II series 6x6's don't have double doors in the rear hatch but the Pandur does. Also add the fact that the Pandurs (Not the Pandur II's as far as I know, and the GDLS Pandur is the plain Pandur not the Pandur II) are/were manufactured by AV Technology International (a General Dynamics company) of Chesterfield, Michigan, USA. So, yeah, I bet you $50 that the unknowns in question use the Pandur with some special mods.

The 6x6 truck: Well, it's a Pinzgauer 6x6:

The Pinzgauer 6x6 is license built in the US by Stewart & Stevenson, the guys behind the FMTV's which were used by SF:

[/URL][URL="http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aaosized3dy.jpg"] (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abgsized9xw.jpg)

It is interesting to see that the US Army has adopted two relatively old Austrian designs and seemingly license manufactures them in the US. Obviously neither of these two vehicles are general issue, but I bet we will see more of them in the months and years ahead.

Best,

Till E.

[RGRBOX]

I like that Pinzgauer.. nice ride..

[nerdman]

Those last two pics are LMTVs. PS where did you get the first two pics?

[Frens]

no surprise. US Army/Marines buy everything and test everything

[Hellfish]

I know some small number of Pandurs were bought by the Army so the SF guys could have a bitchin' ride. I don't know why they picked it over other LAV type vehicles that the US already uses (Piranha II variants, Stryker)

[nerdman]

I know some small number of Pandurs were bought by the Army so the SF guys could have a bitchin' ride. I don't know why they picked it over other LAV type vehicles that the US already uses (Piranha II variants, Stryker)

Mote Marine Lab hey. Been there. Nice place, a little small, but nice.

[Till Eulenspiegel]

I know some small number of Pandurs were bought by the Army so the SF guys could have a bitchin' ride. I don't know why they picked it over other LAV type vehicles that the US already uses (Piranha II variants, Stryker)

Because Austrians make the "bitchin'"-est rides of all? p-)

They don't use the regular turret with the cannon though. They seem to mount machineguns and 40mm grenade launchers. I guess the 40mm is very useful in Iraq in the urban areas. I bet they use an armor upgrade package though, since the normal Pandur armor isn't very protective.

[Till Eulenspiegel]

Those last two pics are LMTVs. PS where did you get the first two pics?

They were captures from a video that I saw once. It wasn't all too interesting but these two details were quite interesting. They also showed another two short bits where you could see the side and rear of the Pandur, which is why I know that it had double doors in the rear hatch. Oh yeah, they also show a Mk19 that I guess was mounted on one of them.

[ShakesFIST]

They were captures from a video that I saw once. It wasn't all too interesting but these two details were quite interesting. They also showed another two short bits where you could see the side and rear of the Pandur, which is why I know that it had double doors in the rear hatch. Oh yeah, they also show a Mk19 that I guess was mounted on one of them.

Do you have the video?

[tahoe]

I'm pretty sure those were part of the eval program that decided on the Stryker. The Army tested a number of wheeled vehicles and I think I've seen that first pic from shots of the testing.

[Till Eulenspiegel]

I'm pretty sure those were part of the eval program that decided on the Stryker. The Army tested a number of wheeled vehicles and I think I've seen that first pic from shots of the testing.

No. These were not from an eval. They were shown in active use overseas and in excercises in the US. They are not being trialed or evaled, they seem very much to be in full, active use, albeit on a somewhat limited basis, obviously.

[Field_Gunner]

weve(canada) been useing those for ages think of it as the grandfather lav, lav 25 that the marines use would be pops and the "stryker" would be over fed child on drugs

[Chops]

Till Eulenspiegel?

More like FN SLS.

You are one of the saddest motherf_uckers known to mankind.

Go eat a bag of dicks.

[BiZ]

Till Eulenspiegel, that $50 you're betting should go straight into the "Moderators special beverages fund", do not pass GO.

[perdurabo]

weve(canada) been useing those for ages think of it as the grandfather lav, lav 25 that the marines use would be pops and the "stryker" would be over fed child on drugs
you are using Piranha and Stryker is grand child of it, this is Pandur.

[REMOV]

Pandur in US ARMY inventory is known as Armored Ground Mobility System (AGMS). It was introduced in March 2000, and General Dynamics Land Systems was awarded a TRADOC "competitive procurement, indefinite quantity, five year contract for up to 50 Pandur AGMS vehicles". In fact only 12 Pandur's AGMS was purchased for 12,400,000 USD. But, in June 2006 a new order (http://www.armedforces-int.com/categories/gdls-combat-vehicles/agms.asp) was placed - 16 (11 plus an option for 5) AGMS for US SOCOM for 27,700,000 USD (17,500,000 USD + 8,200,000 USD). Deliveries will start in June 2006.

[ktk_ace]

at least they are staying the f*ck away from strykers now....living coffins IMHO...thin armor, wheels get ignited when hit by small arms fire,immobilized crew either cook alive inside or get ak-ed when they try to make a run for it...

M113 gavin for the win!

and insurgents are smart: what has wheels , u can win, what has tracks GTFO!

[ShakesFIST]

at least they are staying the f*ck away from strykers now....living coffins IMHO...thin armor, wheels get ignited when hit by small arms fire,immobilized crew either cook alive inside or get ak-ed when they try to make a run for it...

M113 gavin for the win!

and insurgents are smart: what has wheels , u can win, what has tracks GTFO!

Who said they were staying away from Strykers? I think they just reequiped yet another unit with them. The "cooked alive" and "AK'd" comment can apply to any vehicle.

[moughoun]

at least they are staying the f*ck away from strykers now....living coffins IMHO...thin armor, wheels get ignited when hit by small arms fire,immobilized crew either cook alive inside or get ak-ed when they try to make a run for it...

M113 gavin for the win!

and insurgents are smart: what has wheels , u can win, what has tracks GTFO!
stop reading G2MIL, you have no idea how good a Stryker is, and experience in airsoft does not count as a valid opinion on the military.

[akmarksman]

Despite the noise that the M113 makes..I like it better than the Stryker..I felt safer in a M113 in Iraq then I did in a Stryker.

I think the pandurs and variants make a better vehicle than the humvee.

[Hellfish]

at least they are staying the f*ck away from strykers now....living coffins IMHO...thin armor, wheels get ignited when hit by small arms fire,immobilized crew either cook alive inside or get ak-ed when they try to make a run for it...

M113 gavin for the win!

and insurgents are smart: what has wheels , u can win, what has tracks GTFO!

Only ****s who have no idea what they're talking about call it the Gavin.

[ShakesFIST]

Only ****s who have no idea what they're talking about call it the Gavin.

Did they ever actually name it that, or anything for that matter? I have only heard it called a Gavin once before this. Everyone always calls them One One Threes (I've also heard One Thirteens).

[Hellfish]

No, the "Gavin" name came from this psychotic 2nd Lt who thinks the 113 is the cure-all for all the Army's ills - he thinks its a more effective vehicle than the Bradley, Stryker and Hmmwv and he advocates taking them all out of storage and replacing damn near every vehicle we have with them.

When I say psychotic, I mean it. This guy is well known in military circles as an absolute and total kook. Every once in a while he registers on this forum and spouts off about the Gavin. And of course, every once in a while you get the idiots that believe this guy and call it the "Gavin".

[tahoe]

I'd never had much confidence in the 113's ability to protect me. It's a delivery van, and I wouldn't use it as anything more. Just about anything bigger than an AK round will perforate it, and there are a lot of 7.62x54mm MGs in use in Iraq.

Field reports on the Stryker have been pretty positive. Other than that brief time when the media seized on something and blew it out of proportion, what have you heard that is so bad?

[ShakesFIST]

Having been on numerous 113 based vehicles I personally would stay away from them. They served served well but I think their time of usefullness on the front line is up. I don't trust it to protect me. However it IS one more layer of armor that a bullet has to go through in order to get me. I have never seen one that is very reliable either. They can go for a ways but not for long. Its one of those vehicles that needs to be retired and replaced but something a little bit more modern than the half century old 113.

[thatguy96]

Field reports on the Stryker have been pretty positive. Other than that brief time when the media seized on something and blew it out of proportion, what have you heard that is so bad?
This has always been my issue. People who have zero experience with one say its a horrible vehicle, a wheeled deathtrap, and yet the field reports were surprisingly positive and I've found negative reports from the field to be exponentially lower than what you hear on the magical interweb.

[ktk_ace]

stop reading G2MIL, you have no idea how good a Stryker is, and experience in airsoft does not count as a valid opinion on the military.

ok ok mebad....sorry , and yeah i did read about the GAVIN article... Ditto the 113 doesnt have a name thou...as i said...MEBAD ...ok?= =

M1 = ABRAMS
humvee....
bradley...
even the sherman has a name... and the 113 doesnt....maybe its because its 13?? unlucky i guess?

i also heard strykers have air conditioning XD

[Chops]

at least they are staying the f*ck away from strykers now....living coffins IMHO...thin armor, wheels get ignited when hit by small arms fire,immobilized crew either cook alive inside or get ak-ed when they try to make a run for it...

M113 gavin for the win!

and insurgents are smart: what has wheels , u can win, what has tracks GTFO!

So reading an ARTICLE on M113 upgrades allows you to give an opinion such as this?

Thanks for your insights...

[ktk_ace]

So reading an ARTICLE on M113 upgrades allows you to give an opinion such as this?

Thanks for your insights...


and thank YOU for reading rofl !

[Chops]

Stay gold Ponyboy... stay gold...

[ktk_ace]

Stay gold ponyboy...


wow...a mod tring to break the 1000 mark point just to flame me... i'm so honored ...

well im guessing the US is finally taking a right direction in using a variety of vechiles for their iraq wargames and stuff, having upgraded from tracks and 8X8's to 6X6's ...ho hum

[Chops]

wow...a mod tring to break the 1000 mark point just to flame me... i'm so honored ...

well im guessing the US is finally taking a right direction in using a variety of vechiles for their iraq wargames and stuff, having upgraded from tracks and 8X8's to 6X6's ...ho hum

Would you feel honoured if a mod banned your ignorant ass for his 1000th post?

And honestly quit replying to every f_ucking thread. Your comment here is just as 'informed' as your "Gavin" spiel. Have you any idea what kind of roles the Pandur and the Pinz 6x6 fill? No so don't add snide comments.

[thatguy96]

ok ok mebad....sorry , and yeah i did read about the GAVIN article... Ditto the 113 doesnt have a name thou...as i said...MEBAD ...ok?= =

M1 = ABRAMS
humvee....
bradley...
even the sherman has a name... and the 113 doesnt....maybe its because its 13?? unlucky i guess?

i also heard strykers have air conditioning XD
"Humvee" isn't a name, its a pronounciation of an acronym, HMMWV, which stands for High-Mobility Multi-purpose Wheeled Vehicle.

The the M113 doesn't have a name, and neither do its two predecessors (the M75 and the M59) or its smaller counterpart the M114.

[ShakesFIST]

wow...a mod tring to break the 1000 mark point just to flame me... i'm so honored ...

well im guessing the US is finally taking a right direction in using a variety of vechiles for their iraq wargames and stuff, having upgraded from tracks and 8X8's to 6X6's ...ho hum

1. Iraq isn't a war game, its a war.
2. No one is upgrading from tracked/8 wheel to 6 wheel.
3. Don't start GUESSING in a thread that already makes you look like a jacktard.

[akmarksman]

Having been on numerous 113 based vehicles I personally would stay away from them. They served served well but I think their time of usefullness on the front line is up. I don't trust it to protect me. However it IS one more layer of armor that a bullet has to go through in order to get me. I have never seen one that is very reliable either. They can go for a ways but not for long. Its one of those vehicles that needs to be retired and replaced but something a little bit more modern than the half century old 113.
The .45ACP is over half a century old,as is the M1911,the M2 and the .50BMG.
LOL even the design of the AR-15 is approaching 50 years. (1958 the AR-15 was designed)
The 113s I hitched a ride in had extra armor tacked on.
Maybe it's because I'm used to tracks..During my teen years I drove a D6 Caterpillar..

[tahoe]

As long as we're talking Pandurs, just came across this:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/02/dude-wheres-my-pandur/index.php

Looks like someone stole a few Belgian Pandurs for their own use!

[futurepilot2004]

As long as we're talking Pandurs, just came across this:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/02/dude-wheres-my-pandur/index.php

Looks like someone stole a few Belgian Pandurs for their own use!
Any update on that story?

[gafkiwi]

I can't comment on the Pandur but we've (NZ) had 6x6 pinzgauers in a couple different configurations for about a year or so, and they're an excellent wagon. They're a "BIG" step up from our 20yr old landrovers and they go places you'd never dream of getting a Lav III.
They're Fricken Ugly though.

[BiZ]

A thread started by an idiot and then smart arse replies by an even bigger tool? No it cannot be...

ktk_ace you're treading a fine line, even for a 12 year old who knows jack ****.

[DeZzErX]

Any update on that story?

The pandurs were retrieved I believe, tho I do not know in what state.

[ktk_ace]

A thread started by an idiot and then smart arse replies by an even bigger tool? No it cannot be...

ktk_ace you're treading a fine line, even for a 12 year old who knows jack ****.

You sound like another 12 year old picking a fight yo :)

back to topic...what im trying to say is that the US is finally using a "tried and true" design to make wheeled stuff.The austrians hardly make bad stuff...look at the steyr AUG and Glock stuff, austrian stuff cant be bad...

[ShakesFIST]

You sound like another 12 year old picking a fight yo :)

back to topic...what im trying to say is that the US is finally using a "tried and true" design to make wheeled stuff.The austrians hardly make bad stuff...look at the steyr AUG and Glock stuff, austrian stuff cant be bad...

The US has been using wheeled vehicles for a LONG time actually.

[thatguy96]

You sound like another 12 year old picking a fight yo :)

back to topic...what im trying to say is that the US is finally using a "tried and true" design to make wheeled stuff.The austrians hardly make bad stuff...look at the steyr AUG and Glock stuff, austrian stuff cant be bad...
I'm pretty sure Steyr got its start with vehicles actually, or it was at least a part of their original repitoire. Austrian vehicles have always been of a relatively high quality.

[Chops]

You sound like another 12 year old picking a fight yo :)

back to topic...what im trying to say is that the US is finally using a "tried and true" design to make wheeled stuff.The austrians hardly make bad stuff...look at the steyr AUG and Glock stuff, austrian stuff cant be bad...

As I said in another thread- quit posting your airsoft derived dribble in the mil forums.

Make intelligent comments or button it or you're out the door. And you can take this as your final warning.

[ktk_ace]

As I said in another thread- quit posting your airsoft derived dribble in the mil forums.

Make intelligent comments or button it or you're out the door. And you can take this as your final warning.


ooh im soo scared that all my post is thread related....not like some mod who likes to shout and go off topic....:roll:

btw the US do have quite alot of ww2 auto makers which churn out good stuff and so did other countries...

Chrysler made sherman tanks,
Porsche/Diamler made panzers and tiger tanks
BMW supplied the luffwaffle with their engines (their sign is a rotating propeller)
Mitsubishi made the awsome zero fighter (which has not much armor whatsoever)
anything else that i missed?

[Chops]

Cheerio f_uckstick!

[BiZ]

Cheerio f_uckstick!

Brings a tear to my eye......one cup of hot Milo coming right up!

[TacoDelRio]

Hahahaha that's hilarious!

Good stuff.

I'll send some Milo cans from my current AO. ;)

[FozzieBear]

what the hell is milo? i hear all my aussie ho's talking about having milo in school and stuff but i have no idea what it is? i get the idea its kind of like chocolate milkshake or something?

[TacoDelRio]

Cocoa based powdered drink mix. Pacific Islanders love it.

[dragon2w]

Edited for OPSEC

[SpartanWarrior198]

I have a slightly dumb question (please don't hurt me), but...I heard somewhere (don't recall where) that Strykers and Piranhas (unarmed, of course) are legal to privately own and drive on public streets, in the US.
Does anyone know if that's true or not?

[Squeezee]

All I know is that US Army Strykers are road legal and can drive in public whenever they want. The documentary they did about soldiers training with them was actually pretty good, that's where I heard this.

[DPM_Sheep]

Wait. Tanks (obviously in private hands) aren't?

[Ironsight06]

I have a slightly dumb question (please don't hurt me), but...I heard somewhere (don't recall where) that Strykers and Piranhas (unarmed, of course) are legal to privately own and drive on public streets, in the US.
Does anyone know if that's true or not?
You are allowed to own military vehicles privately as long as they are demilled.

[SpartanWarrior198]

You are allowed to own military vehicles privately as long as they are demilled.
I wonder how much penny a Stryker would cost...

It'd be the ultimate family wagon. Seating for 10 passengers (I think), easy-access rear hatch, protection from collision, automatic weapons fire from local insurgents, NBC agents, rocket-propelled grenades, and land mines. Every kid on the block would be begging you to carpool. And if the guy with the Camero gives you lip, just throw it into 8-wheel-drive and show him what happens when you PO a Stryker owner! rofl

[Squeezee]

Run that thing right up over the Camero lol.