Pattern 58 and PLCE Resporator Question

[East Scout]

Question one:

Will a DPM PLCE resporator sack stay snaped and secure on a pattern 58 belt? IF not are there British army super secrets to share about it? I know it will slide as the teeth have no holes to rest in but thats a minor issue..I just wanna know if the snaps will hold it on so i wont leave my sack in laying the woods while hauling a$$...

Question two:

How/where do you attach the lower starps of the Pattern 58 canvas rucksack onto the rig..I have the top straps threaded and secured on the D rings w/o problems. I figure the rear bottom straps hook onto the sew on metal hooks that are on the P58 belt but Id like to be sure.......


TIA members..

East Scout

[oldsoak]

Depends on the state of the poppers and the load you put on them. I was issued a new PLCE resi case that damn near well gave me hernia trying to snap the poopers shut and its stayed that way. It will slide around on a 58 belt, so put it between two '58 pattern ammo or waterbottle pouches. You could also try getting a PLCE belt or gently filing the metal tounges on the case so that they can fit in a the slots on a 58 belt.

[kayaker]

Hello ES!

First Q answered

Second: the clips clip onto the the hoops on the 58 ammo pouches. Same place where the yoke straps feed through.

Thridly: excuses for my inactivity East Scout on Yahoo/here lately... just started work experience: up at 0530 for early shift! Zzz Will make up for it, promish ;)

[TacoDelRio]

Damn ES, what are you gonna put in that thing that fits on an LBE belt?

I stopped using mine as a rope bag, so if you want an OD one in very good condition (was on my ruck for a few mountains) with a few tiny holes, I'll throw it in your general direction since I'm trying to get rid of some of my gear.

The snaps on it are ok. They stay put, and aren't too much of a bitch to snap together.

[RecceGuy]

If you get hold of one of the old ones ie. pre-PLCE the belt loop is stitched and so you dont have to worry about it coming off but as you have said it will slide some. They're made out of a waterproofed nylon, look terrible but virtually indestructable.

[SamHamam]

Question one:

Will a DPM PLCE resporator sack stay snaped and secure on a pattern 58 belt? IF not are there British army super secrets to share about it? I know it will slide as the teeth have no holes to rest in but thats a minor issue..I just wanna know if the snaps will hold it on so i wont leave my sack in laying the woods while hauling a$$...

The older PLCE cases had c-clips that would fit into the 'pockets' on the inside of a '58 belt and hold it pretty securely. However I assume that you have got one with the 'T Bar' fittings, I wouldn't trust the velco and snaps to hold much wieght particuarly if it's likley to get caught on anything.

These days most units SOP is not to carry the Resi Havesack attached to the belt anyway - if required to hand the strap attached to the havescat is used around the waist.



Question two:

How/where do you attach the lower starps of the Pattern 58 canvas rucksack onto the rig..I have the top straps threaded and secured on the D rings w/o problems. I figure the rear bottom straps hook onto the sew on metal hooks that are on the P58 belt but Id like to be sure.......

The rings on the belt are to hang the poncho roll from. The straps on the big pack go to the tops of the ammo pouches.

[spectre17]

i had a water bottle pouch that's poppers went
a solution was to
thread a shoelace through the hole on the flap
thread it round the belt,
under the thing that the popper attaches to and secure with many knots... it was a personal thing that just happened - with a bit of fiddling around it can work

[East Scout]

Spectre= I did that exact same thing to my PLCE water bottle after th snaps broke..Well i modified it a bit and poped all the snaps off and just lashed 550 though the holes and its pretty secure now..I bet you could drag me by it before it would give way...

Sam= thanks for the info.

Recce guy= I have the Resi sack in OD with the P58 attachments..just wish it was DPM..

MRSkor.= Yeah Im gonna use it as a buttpack...DPM rules man! Thanks for the offer bro but i have two OD and two DPM respi sacks..I appriciate the offer though..

Old soak= the snaps are in right strong condition, I have to stand on them to get them to snap and they stay so fit Im scared to pull them apoart that they may brake from the fabric!


RW= You kick ass man...However i desided to just go w/ the BH 3 day ruck as usual..The P58 is a bit to promitive ..That or maybe Im just to much a priss from using all this modern gear...RGRBOX would just say Im a pussy!;-)

Thanks guys from the help........


East Scout.....

[kayaker]

thanx!!

Gotta agree: never use the 58 pack on the webbing. Piece of shjte that is! Far too small for the modern day infantry man and so uncomfortable they couldnt get it more ill fitting even if they tried.

No point leaving the quality gear home andmaking it hard on yourself. Getting the job done is important, not showing who's toughest!

[East Scout]

You brits must have a shut load of em laying about..They are selling an entire kit for 11$ on the US market..That includes kidney pouches belt yoke 2 ammo pouches and the back pack..not a bad deal for the less finacialy free adventurer..

ES

[kayaker]

Wow! they go for around 35 British Pounds Sterling! Id order a ****load but cant see who would be interested... even the Army Cadets buying 95' or LBV's

[DeltaWhisky58]

$11.00 is all very well, but try carrying that lot fully loaded and soaking wet - it's as heavy as hell and doesn't carry well, believe me! Even with bungees and other mods, it's a pain in the ass, back, shoulders, kidneys etc.

[East Scout]

$11.00 is all very well, but try carrying that lot fully loaded and soaking wet - it's as heavy as hell and doesn't carry well, believe me! Even with bungees and other mods, it's a pain in the ass, back, shoulders, kidneys etc.

I concur...Ryan and myself were talking about that very situation on another thread..It gets wet and it stays wet and gains about 10 lbs.......

[kayaker]

$11.00 is all very well, but try carrying that lot fully loaded and soaking wet - it's as heavy as hell and doesn't carry well, believe me! Even with bungees and other mods, it's a pain in the ass, back, shoulders, kidneys etc.

Exactly: How they managed back in the falklands! You wonder how they waterproofed it back then... Surely they wouldnt walk around with soaked 58' even back then they had PVC and wax (although not heat resistant;))

[kayaker]

I concur...Ryan and myself were talking about that very situation on another thread..It gets wet and it stays wet and gains about 10 lbs.......

Yep we did! :D glad Im not using the kidney **** and a whole array of diff anno pouches/yoke with the 58' parts waterproofed.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Exactly: How they managed back in the falklands! You wonder how they waterproofed it back then... Surely they wouldnt walk around with soaked 58' even back then they had PVC and wax (although not heat resistant;))

Don't forget that 58 patt. webbing soldiered on for another eight years or so after The Falklands. There were various local mods and unofficial adaptations, for example substituting two water bottle pouches for the kidney pouches and suchlike, but the biggest abomination about the 58 set was the large pack which was anything but large and a total nightmare.

I don't know of anyone did attmept to waterproof the 58 sets, but the pouches were so poorly fastened that I doubt it would have worked - we wrapped everything inside in plastic bags etc.

[kayaker]

So what did they start using from the 90's onwards? Ive seen some 94' kit which is blatently 95' issue trial stuff...

On the waterproof stuff... not much you need waterproofed in your webbing apart from a towel and odd and ends but no one did anything to preventwater being soaked up and multiplying the weight?

[DeltaWhisky58]

I'm not sure exactly when PLCE first appeared but it roughly coincided with the introduction of the L85A1/L86A1 (SA80/LSW), so around 1990 - first in OG and later in DPM.

AFAIK there is no year attached to PLCE, but it is often erroneously referred to as PLCE 95 because the new DPM "Combat Soldier 95" clothing system with which it is often associated was introduced in that year.

Perhaps one of our serving members such as Royal could put more meat on the bones, or correct what I have said if necessary.

[MrScruff]

the biggest abomination about the 58 set was the large pack which was anything but large and a total nightmare.
The only good thing about them was the side pocket which was exactly pringle's tube size :p

[Royal]

Perhaps one of our serving members such as Royal could put more meat on the bones, or correct what I have said if necessary.

I seem to remember the first trials stuff coming out in OD in about '89 - the pouches fastened with poppers rather than the the pull tags that came later. We had DPM PLCE stuff in '91 or '92 or there abouts and it's been there ever since - they changed over pretty quickly when they realised that the OD wasn't IRR. Many units went straight from '58 to DPM PLCE.

[oldsoak]

I remember seeing 58 webbing in a dark green nylon - just like the stuff on the para and artic bergens. I think that was trials stuff . I never saw plce with poppers to close the pouches - we went straight to the pull tag OD plce from 58 . It was issued on the basis of your rank and what was in the stores...harrumph.... Guess what, when the DPM stuff came out, It took the OC telling the Q that he wanted us all in DPM before he'd start taking the stuff back !

[Royal]

I remember seeing 58 webbing in a dark green nylon - just like the stuff on the para and artic bergens. I think that was trials stuff.

You're thinking of the '72 pattern webbing - which (AFAIK - it was long gone when I joined up) was issued for a bit for infantry units in Germany.


I never saw plce with poppers to close the pouches - we went straight to the pull tag OD plce from 58.

If you've got an old version of the Rifle Pamphlet (back when it was still Pam 6) the SASC 'models' were wearing it.