A little respect for the dead +2nd A

[hank]

I told you I would not discuss the gun stuff in the forum dedicated to two dead people.

NOw that we are back i nthe right place I'll answer.

First, Argyll, I know of no movement to roll back teh 2nd A. As I said in that other thread - gun ownership is a bedrock of our constitution - don't like then stay over there where you cna't have them. There is no "weighin" og the need v the danger when it comes to this stuff. US citizens have the right to own and it is just that simple.

About who owned the SKS/AK-47. I don't know but I will try to find out. I assume it was the father. Bith guns are perfectly legal in TN. The fact that the father is an ADA tells me it was legal for he or the son to own the gun. If not, the father will get disbarred if he owned an illegal gun or knew the son did. I have had friends that owned AKs, many on this forum currently do. The SKS fits under the radar b/c if memory serves it is not a magazine like the AK but a well into which you load the rounds like an old bolt action.

If you want to continue the 2nd A/gun dialogue lets do so, btu let's do it here.

hank

[Argyll]

Nah I never said a lobby against the 2nd A,I meant a lobby who were against the crimes involving weapons.
IIRC a movie about a Mother who's son/Husband was shot and she went to court to change the Laws,she and her lobby won,but there was some kind of deal done behind her back.

Now this statement in itself gives me an indication of what you feel about Gun control

don't like then stay over there where you cna't have them.

I have no intention of moving to the USA,why would I,you seem to be almost goading in this statement.

I am more than happy to stay in a country where there's not much chance of me or any of my family getting slotted by some drugged up teenager with a raging hardon against the world!!
How many incidents has there been in the past 5 years where disallousioned kids have gone on killing spree's in schools across the USA?

What would your reaction be if the kid next door shot your wife and family to death with an assault rifle coz he didn't like the way you dressed,coz he was pissed and stoned?

I cannot speak for the rest of the Brits here,but after the Dunblane massacre here in Scotland,the people got the Laws changed,some say it was a knee jerk reaction ,try telling that to the families of those little kids slaughtered by that wanker hamilton!!

lastly the other topic was titled "officer killed in stand off with teen",there were no dedications on the 1st page at all from US posters the 1st sympathy came from Cut,then Kriz,in fact there are very few dedications in that post at all..........just an observation.

the other topic started by Martin had nothing to do with the 1st topic,more to do with GWB's statement about owning the same type of weapons and an amazing amount of ammo...........no dedications there either bro?

[hank]

Nah I never said a lobby against the 2nd A,I meant a lobby who were against the crimes involving weapons.
IIRC a movie about a Mother who's son/Husband was shot and she went to court to change the Laws,she and her lobby won,but there was some kind of deal done behind her back.

Now this statement in itself gives me an indication of what you feel about Gun control

don't like then stay over there where you cna't have them.

I have no intention of moving to the USA,why would I,you seem to be almost goading in this statement.

I am more than happy to stay in a country where there's not much chance of me or any of my family getting slotted by some drugged up teenager with a raging hardon against the world!!
How many incidents has there been in the past 5 years where disallousioned kids have gone on killing spree's in schools across the USA?

What would your reaction be if the kid next door shot your wife and family to death with an assault rifle coz he didn't like the way you dressed,coz he was pissed and stoned?

I cannot speak for the rest of the Brits here,but after the Dunblane massacre here in Scotland,the people got the Laws changed,some say it was a knee jerk reaction ,try telling that to the families of those little kids slaughtered by that wanker hamilton!!

lastly the other topic was titled "officer killed in stand off with teen",there were no dedications on the 1st page at all from US posters the 1st sympathy came from Cut,then Kriz,in fact there are very few dedications in that post at all..........just an observation.

the other topic started by Martin had nothing to do with the 1st topic,more to do with GWB's statement about owning the same type of weapons and an amazing amount of ammo...........no dedications there either bro?

Where to begin - first - don't make any assumptions about my views on gun control - I am capabale of separating my personal views and the state of the law. There is a different in being a gun "fanatic" and being comeone who does not like his rights taken away. That is my point about the 2nd A

What is IIRC? - i don't follow.

As for the ak teenager - I would be mad as hell and I would probably want blood - thats a natural reaction. But that is totally irrespective of the 2nd A and our rights to bear arms. Fortunately for me, I have the right to get my own AK and pop a cap in his ass first, if need be. Plus, I stay out of drug neighborhoods as a general rule.

There was no intent to goad you, only to point out that martinexsquaddie's views on guns aren't relevant to a thread about a dead cop and a 16 year old.

hank

[hank]

My only thought in creating this thread is that if everybody wants to talk about gun control - I would like to do it. But that thread about Officer Scott and kid Harvey is not the place. No offence meant by bringing it over here and I am not assessing any blame - just thought a change in venue was in order.

hank

[TehVice]

"What would your reaction be if the kid next door shot your wife and family to death with an assault rifle coz he didn't like the way you dressed,coz he was pissed and stoned?"

I sure as hell wouldn't blame the gun. I would not try to have them banned either. If he was really determined to kill them, he would of

A. Bought the gun illegally

B. Used somethinbg else.

Banning the gun helps no one.

Several studies have found that the 1994 Brady crime bill (the bill that banned several "assault weapons", as well as bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and adjustable stocks, and also limited the capacity of magazines made after September 13th, 1994 to 10 rounds) has had little to no effect on crime in the United States.

The kids who did the Columbine shooting a few years back broke no less than 34 firearm laws. They were not of legal age to purchase the firearms they used. Now, according to anti-gun lobbyists, that should of stopped them. But it didn't, they simple bought them illegally.

The two men who robbed the bank in North Hollywood in 1997 had no less than 3 automatic weapons. Weapons of that type have been restricted in the U.S. since 1934. That didn't seem to stop them from obtaining them.

Those two instances show that criminals do not follow laws. If someone is determined to shoot something/someone up, no law is going to stop them.

[Argyll]

No probs Hank ,
IIRC is something like Something like I recall.

I have to be honest here,I have no ideas about the constitution,and the right to bear arms,if it works then it's good,as long as it follows the Gudlines of the Law,then there should be no problem I guess.

My questionis that why do people feel the need to have several "Semi Automatic " Assault weapons and thousands of rounds of Ammo in their home,if it's just for "home protection" then what's wrong with a 9mm (or any calibre) pistol and a clip of ammo,most being between 13-17 rounds these days?
Unless you're expecting the entire 101st Airborne to come a calling then the needs for such firepower seems somewhat "excesive".

[Haiw]

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

[TRACER_BULLET]

No probs Hank ,
IIRC is something like Something like I recall.

I have to be honest here,I have no ideas about the constitution,and the right to bear arms,if it works then it's good,as long as it follows the Gudlines of the Law,then there should be no problem I guess.

My questionis that why do people feel the need to have several "Semi Automatic " Assault weapons and thousands of rounds of Ammo in their home,if it's just for "home protection" then what's wrong with a 9mm (or any calibre) pistol and a clip of ammo,most being between 13-17 rounds these days?
Unless you're expecting the entire 101st Airborne to come a calling then the needs for such firepower seems somewhat "excesive".


Well Argyll ... why do some people feel the need to "sup up" their cars ... because it interests you and or it’s your hobby

With freedoms like the private ownership of firearms comes great responsibility... To ban all fire arms because of a few peoples mistake (I say mistakes only because I can't seem to come up with a better term at the moment) is ludicrous... remember with out the human mind the weapon is useless... As the owner of several semi-auto rifles including an Ar-15 and several pistols I feel that we need to focus on better back ground checks and such ... not the ban of ownership.

And to explain why some of us Americans have bulk ammo on hand is that it’s signfinically cheeper to buy in quantity then to buy a few hundred rounds at a time

I forgot to post in the other thred ... welcome back Agryll :D I hope you enjoyed your vacation(?)

[TehVice]

"My questionis that why do people feel the need to have several "Semi Automatic " Assault weapons and thousands of rounds of Ammo in their home"

Because we're allowed to. Also, remember some people shoot for fun.

Also, note that there is no such thing as a semi-automatic "assault weapon", as true "assault weapons" are select fire.

"Assault weapon" is a term used by anti-gun lobbyists to make the people think the guns they wish to ban are fully automatic. In reality they're banning semi-automatic rifles that look like military weapons.

[WARPIG]

Gun ownership for most becomes a hobby. Having a collection is generally viewed the same as collecting antiques or stamps. Different gun owners value different kinds of guns. Some collect antique guns, some collect tactical firearms. No big deal.. generally.
The problem is that not all guns are collected legally. Having an AK in your collection or something a bit illegal is common. Collectors of everything seem to become fanatical or obsessive about it. A person that does not or has not served in the military or law enforcement can and often does become obsessed with tactical aspects of gun ownership. Military and law enforcement are just as easily addicted to gun collection and obsession. On the whole this is just a group of basically obsessed collectors that happen to collect something dangerous. They often picture themselves in situations where their firearm skill is put to use. But mostly don't do much more than collect, sport shoot, and role play in their own minds. I have quite a few friends that are like that. I shoot from time to time at a local gun club and the freaks are thick in that place. I don't often scare easy, but when Billy Joe shows up with all six of his redheaded step kids and every one of them (to include 9 year old Billy Joe Jr.) has thier own pistol or rifle.. well I usually let them have the range to themselves.

The right to own a firearm is not the issue here in the US. The availability and the fact that there are very few real prerequisites to own a gun legally. Stupid people can own guns. Schizophrenics can own guns. Depressed people can own guns. You can be drunk, high, and medicated.. and own a gun.
We could try to control that.. but then what is to stop people from getting them illegally? Not much. The availablity of illegal firearms is unreal. There is no way to effectively control that so far.

Add to that our love of violent movies, TV, and video games. Ever notice the amount of underaged gun enthusiasts just on this forum? Paintball, airsoft and video gamers.. training for what?

[hank]

No probs Hank ,
IIRC is something like Something like I recall.

I have to be honest here,I have no ideas about the constitution,and the right to bear arms,if it works then it's good,as long as it follows the Gudlines of the Law,then there should be no problem I guess.

My questionis that why do people feel the need to have several "Semi Automatic " Assault weapons and thousands of rounds of Ammo in their home,if it's just for "home protection" then what's wrong with a 9mm (or any calibre) pistol and a clip of ammo,most being between 13-17 rounds these days?
Unless you're expecting the entire 101st Airborne to come a calling then the needs for such firepower seems somewhat "excesive".

I am with you. I don't see the reason either, but obviously Mr. Harvey did. Wise? Can't honestly say yes with teh benefit of hindsight. But legal and even encouraged under our Constitution? Yes.

IIRC - now I get it - I thought it was something totally different.

Lots of details coming out here in town about the gun - ballistics expected today or tomorrow. I will keep you posted.

Is this story still getting nat'l/int'l play?

hank

[hank]

Gun ownership for most becomes a hobby. Having a collection is generally viewed the same as collecting antiques or stamps. Different gun owners value different kinds of guns. Some collect antique guns, some collect tactical firearms. No big deal.. generally.
The problem is that not all guns are collected legally. Having an AK in your collection or something a bit illegal is common. Collectors of everything seem to become fanatical or obsessive about it. A person that does not or has not served in the military or law enforcement can and often does become obsessed with tactical aspects of gun ownership. Military and law enforcement are just as easily addicted to gun collection and obsession. On the whole this is just a group of basically obsessed collectors that happen to collect something dangerous. They often picture themselves in situations where their firearm skill is put to use. But mostly don't do much more than collect, sport shoot, and role play in their own minds. I have quite a few friends that are like that. I shoot from time to time at a local gun club and the freaks are thick in that place. I don't often scare easy, but when Billy Joe shows up with all six of his redheaded step kids and every one of them (to include 9 year old Billy Joe Jr.) has thier own pistol or rifle.. well I usually let them have the range to themselves.

The right to own a firearm is not the issue here in the US. The availability and the fact that there are very few real prerequisites to own a gun legally. Stupid people can own guns. Schizophrenics can own guns. Depressed people can own guns. You can be drunk, high, and medicated.. and own a gun.
We could try to control that.. but then what is to stop people from getting them illegally? Not much. The availablity of illegal firearms is unreal. There is no way to effectively control that so far.

Add to that our love of violent movies, TV, and video games. Ever notice the amount of underaged gun enthusiasts just on this forum? Paintball, airsoft and video gamers.. training for what?

Good points all, WARPIG. Oddly enough the kinds of limitations - like schizos, etc. hardly ever get brought up but would likely be constitutional if the same analysis got applied as say does to speech. religion. Can't really explain that one. Also, time, manner, place restrictions are just commonplace - like you can get concealed carry but even if you do you can't take a gun legally onto a school. Why not the same for mental illness? That would likely fly under the con - yet we never see that type of stuff?

hank