New czech assault rifles (replacement candidates for Sa-58)

[zkurvenepice]

new version of CZ-2000 LADA
http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada12mx.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada34ol.jpg

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada46tb.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada7yu.jpg


prototype of Personal Defence Weapon 4,38 x 30 of CZW company
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=personaldefenceweapon438x304da.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=personaldefenceweapon438x301yb.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=personaldefenceweapon438x300aw.jpg


Assault riffle CZW 556
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assaultriffleczw5568jg.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assaultriffleczw5564jg.jpg


Small submachine gun CZW 9M
http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=czw98bh.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=czw99kx.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smallsubmachinegunczw9m9jp.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smallsubmachinegunczw9m5ks.jpg


the Slovak LAUGO LG 205
http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laugo3oc.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laugo5hx.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laugolg2058mi.jpg

[Lt. James Anderson]

The first one looks awesome! Is that an assault rifle? Looks like it doesn't have iron sights ???

[ond26]

about Lada(czech)
http://www.volny.cz/weapon/cs/lada.htm

[zkurvenepice]

The first one looks awesome! Is that an assault rifle? Looks like it doesn't have iron sights ???

Slovak LAUGO is "light plastic-that means compo material-assault rifle". New LADA and CZWs are combination iron and compo materials:-)))

[british-airborne]

nice weapons

[CSAR]

Very nice, especially that first one is sweet.

But are those really supposed to replace normal bulk assault rifles of the Czech army? Hard to believe that performance and durability would be good enough, on the outside those look more like something Special Forces would use. All those fancy optics, plastic parts and stuff don't look to me like something that could be handed to normal conscripts just like that.

[Resurrection]

But are those really supposed to replace normal bulk assault rifles of the Czech army? Hard to believe that performance and durability would be good enough, on the outside those look more like something Special Forces would use. All those fancy optics, plastic parts and stuff don't look to me like something that could be handed to normal conscripts just like that.
Exactly what I was thinking.

[zkurvenepice]

Very nice, especially that first one is sweet.

But are those really supposed to replace normal bulk assault rifles of the Czech army? Hard to believe that performance and durability would be good enough, on the outside those look more like something Special Forces would use. All those fancy optics, plastic parts and stuff don't look to me like something that could be handed to normal conscripts just like that.

that´s right, you can see that with full add equipment but normal version is on the middle two pics, the main difference of the first version is inbuilt launcher and new front part allowed to hang add equipment. Plastic transparent magazine is standard, on the old version as well.
old version of the 90th
http://img319.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ladakomplet6fm.jpg

[Zeev]

thats a good thing for the czech army beacuse the sa58 is really toooooo old...

[kilroy1911]

well... as a Slovak I must say that both countries - czech and slovak republic - really needs new weapons for police and military. Slovak SMG Laugo is currently in pre-production phase, not sure if it will be really produced in larger numbers. It seems to be fine weapon and not so expensive - ideal replacement for Skorpions in our police forces.

Vz. 58 needs to be replaced by modern rifle in 5.56 calibre capable to carry various tactical attachements but i am not sure if these pictured weapns like improved lada or czw family are real candidates... AFAIk the year in which the Vz. 58 should be replaced is 2010 - and if czech companes will not develop something better that AK74 variant... foreign rifles like G36 seems to be real candidates...

[zkurvenepice]

well... as a Slovak I must say that both countries - czech and slovak republic - really needs new weapons for police and military. Slovak SMG Laugo is currently in pre-production phase, not sure if it will be really produced in larger numbers. It seems to be fine weapon and not so expensive - ideal replacement for Skorpions in our police forces.

Vz. 58 needs to be replaced by modern rifle in 5.56 calibre capable to carry various tactical attachements but i am not sure if these pictured weapns like improved lada or czw family are real candidates... AFAIk the year in which the Vz. 58 should be replaced is 2010 - and if czech companes will not develop something better that AK74 variant... foreign rifles like G36 seems to be real candidates...

"...and if czech companes will not develop something better that AK74 variant..."

what means that? How variants? Sa-58 is completely different weapon from AK-74, LADA is completely new weapon of the 90th designed for 5,56x45 mm NATO ammo, but the first version was declined by czech army as not perspective for future and mainly for price. This new version is designed according to czech army request by PROTOTYPA Brno and ZVI Vsetín companies and this pictures are from IDET 2005 military fair in Brno.
CZW rifles are normal production models of commercial Czech Weapons/CZW s.r.o. Slavičín company what founded in 1998 and offered these guns for czech army, so how version of AK-74???
http://czechweapons.com

LAUGO is pre-production model I guess 2-3 years, that´s true, but not candidate, it´s simply nice and non-known gun due to posted. 2010 is the date for replacing fot Czech army, that´s true as well. I don´t know about Slovak army.

[zkurvenepice]

repost....

[RBull]

"...and if czech companes will not develop something better that AK74 variant..."

what means that? How variants? Sa-58 is completely different weapon from AK-74, LADA is completely new weapon of the 90th designed for 5,56x45 mm NATO ammo, but the first version was declined by czech army as not perspective for future and mainly for price. This new version is designed according to czech army request by PROTOTYPA Brno and ZVI Vsetín companies and this pictures are from IDET 2005 military fair in Brno.
CZW rifles are normal production models of commercial Czech Weapons/CZW s.r.o. Brno company what founded in 1998, so how version of AK-74???
http://czechweapons.com

LAUGO is pre-production model I guess 2-3 years, that´s true

In case you did not know, LADA is based on AK74 design, but improved and partly altered for legal reason [to avoid license fees]. I was told that when I have been at CZUB [the manufacturing company] for LADA demo few years ago...

[Flying Dutchman]

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9823/laugolg2058mi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79949)
mini ump, cool

[zkurvenepice]

In case you did not know, LADA is based on AK74 design, but improved and partly altered for legal reason [to avoid license fees]. I was told that when I have been at CZUB [the manufacturing company] for LADA demo few years ago...

that´s news for me, I know that the first prototype of LADA was designed for soviet 5,45x39 mm ammo on the end of the 80th, but after 1990 was rebuilt for 5,56x45 mm NATO ammo. So that´s question if on Ak-74 base, I have´t information from inside as you:)

[elephantkiller]

they look heavy and unbalanced. any one shot one yet?

[kilroy1911]

you dont need any inside info... Lada is slightly improved AK74, it is basicly its clone. Thats public information, you dont need any inside info. I hope that until 2010 there will be completly new design of AR - because any AK74 clone will be obsolete - considering that new rifle should serve for decades... this is the reason why i think that if there will be no new design of czech rifle - the real contesters will be foreign designs.

[Geocider]

The LADA looks bloody evil. Evil I says!

[zkurvenepice]

they look heavy and unbalanced. any one shot one yet?

the first version already was of same weight and balanced as M16 and M4 (long 3Kg, short version 2,5Kg, this new version is not short not long and with compo materials, so etc....)

[zkurvenepice]

you dont need any inside info... Lada is slightly improved AK74, it is basicly its clone. Thats public information, you dont need any inside info. I hope that until 2010 there will be completly new design of AR - because any AK74 clone will be obsolete - considering that new rifle should serve for decades... this is the reason why i think that if there will be no new design of czech rifle - the real contesters will be foreign designs.

I bet, that will be a czech construction in 2010, because all czech politicians (stupid or clever, ČSSD or ODS) want to support czech industry as in other countries:) I count, there are about five weapon companies in the Czechlans what can offer new suitable rifles for czech army.
( and I bet personally it will be some version of LADA:) )

[homerj109]

This one looks like the bastard child of a g-36 and an ak.

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada46tb.jpg

[kilroy1911]

five companies? which one? some may be able to develope a rifle - but mass production is something else. CZ seems to be the only real alternative. Can you post some info or links to other companies?? thanks

[zkurvenepice]

five companies? which one? some may be able to develope a rifle - but mass production is something else. CZ seems to be the only real alternative. Can you post some info or links to other companies?? thanks

ZVI a.s. Vsetín (ability of mass production, for example PLAMEN pod is developed and produced by this company)
http://www.zvi.cz/

Česká zbrojovka a.s. Uherský Brod (ability of mass production, of course)
http://www.czub.cz/

Czech Weapons s.r.o. Slavičín (ability of mass production, on base of ex state weapon company)
http://czechweapons.com/

PROTOTYPA a.s. Brno (design company, for example LADA is PROTOTYPA product and CZ Uherský Brod should have made this, this new one is cooperate product of PROTOTYPA and ZVI Vsetín)
http://www.prototypa.cz/

Zbrojovka Brno a.s. ( today waiting for sale, but it won´t take time of years...ability of mass production, of course not today,but as you said the replacement will started in 2010.... )
http://www.zbrojovkabrno.com/

P.S. please, post links to relevant documents of the start LADA developing and AK base of that...(zatím si tu uvedl informace hodnoty "jedna paní povídala")

[kilroy1911]

jedna pani povidala? nieco je napr tu:

http://www.volny.cz/weapon/cs/lada.htm

ci je to relevantne...? neviem:-)


for english speaking readers: That link says that LADA is a further development of AK74...

[liberation]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I hear that the ALCA aircraft sucks up 70% of the Czech Republic's defence procurement budget. If this is the case it is little wonder that the the Czechs have felt compelled to stick with the trusty Vz.58.

[CanuckZ]

thats a good thing for the czech army beacuse the sa58 is really toooooo old...

So what?! I now own several.

[zkurvenepice]

jedna pani povidala? nieco je napr tu:

http://www.volny.cz/weapon/cs/lada.htm

ci je to relevantne...? neviem:-)


for english speaking readers: That link says that LADA is a further development of AK74...


:) myslel jsem si, ze uvedes tuhle stranku, znam ji velmi dobre, je asi jedina, kde je "neco" o Ladě uvedeno, jsou to hezke "nadsenecke" stranky, tedy nikoliv relevantni:)

in english: this link is of fancier made, not serious source:-)) and well-know because only one with some information about the first LADA version

[zkurvenepice]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I hear that the ALCA aircraft sucks up 70% of the Czech Republic's defence procurement budget. If this is the case it is little wonder that the the Czechs have felt compelled to stick with the trusty Vz.58.

yeah, and all czech people are eating grass........
70% of budget? of which time? You heard ehh I see... Maybe of 1998 budget when the contract was signed but 70%???? Hmmmm, so now I already know - Czech army spend fictive money for new tatras, pandurs II, new LR Defenders, modernisation of Mi-171, new A-318 CJ, AMRAAMs etc just in this year and czech army has fictional about 5 miliards crowns excess of 2005 budget year.... Thanx for your let-in information, man

[kilroy1911]

:) myslel jsem si, ze uvedes tuhle stranku, znam ji velmi dobre, je asi jedina, kde je "neco" o Ladě uvedeno, jsou to hezke "nadsenecke" stranky, tedy nikoliv relevantni:)


ono mne je v podstate uplne jedno ci je to na baze AK74 alebo nie.... i ked si dovolim povedat ze by ma trosku mrzelo keby to bola naozaj len kopia AK74. Mam rad Vz58 prave preto, ze to nie je kopia AK47... a nove samonabijacie verzie Vz58 tusim od hermexu vyzeraju fakt dobre. Urcite lepsie ako LADA:-) Ta nema ani to caro starsich "zeleznych" pusiek...Je to taky patvar z 80tych rokov ktory zaspal dobu. Nepomozu mu ani montazne listy ani mrak prislusenstva. Pevne verim ze sa na niecom niekde v CR pracuje a ze to nebude LADA:-) a ze snad okrem konstruktera zamestnali aj dizajnera a vysledok bude nielen funkcny ale aj pekny - vid samopal Laugo napr.

[CPLHUNTER]

new version of CZ-2000 LADA
http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada12mx.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada34ol.jpg

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada46tb.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lada7yu.jpg


prototype of Personal Defence Weapon 4,38 x 30 of CZW company
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=personaldefenceweapon438x304da.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=personaldefenceweapon438x301yb.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=personaldefenceweapon438x300aw.jpg


Assault riffle CZW 556
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assaultriffleczw5568jg.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assaultriffleczw5564jg.jpg


Small submachine gun CZW 9M
http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=czw98bh.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=czw99kx.jpg

http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smallsubmachinegunczw9m9jp.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=smallsubmachinegunczw9m5ks.jpg


the Slovak LAUGO LG 205
http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laugo3oc.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laugo5hx.jpg

http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laugolg2058mi.jpg

Wow those are great pics. I like the clear mag.

[zkurvenepice]

ono mne je v podstate uplne jedno ci je to na baze AK74 alebo nie.... i ked si dovolim povedat ze by ma trosku mrzelo keby to bola naozaj len kopia AK74. Mam rad Vz58 prave preto, ze to nie je kopia AK47... a nove samonabijacie verzie Vz58 tusim od hermexu vyzeraju fakt dobre. Urcite lepsie ako LADA:-) Ta nema ani to caro starsich "zeleznych" pusiek...Je to taky patvar z 80tych rokov ktory zaspal dobu. Nepomozu mu ani montazne listy ani mrak prislusenstva. Pevne verim ze sa na niecom niekde v CR pracuje a ze to nebude LADA:-) a ze snad okrem konstruktera zamestnali aj dizajnera a vysledok bude nielen funkcny ale aj pekny - vid samopal Laugo napr.

for Kilroy only:)
mně je také jedno, na jakém základě je to vytvořené:) , podstatné je, že už původní verze, pravda podle informací "jedna paní povidala", byla lepší než M16 a M4 posledních verzí, ale také o dost dražší...tahle nová verze je předělaná podle požadavků české armády a protože projekt LADA je udržovaný při životě s přestávkami asi 15 let , tak si myslím, že nakonec to bude ona, i když třeba v jiné podobě, co se stane nahradou za vz.58 :-))). Mimochodem, švýcarská policie v polovině devadesátých let krátké lady nakoupila, tedy přesněji řečeno objednala, dál už o té akci nic nebylo zveřejněno, ani počty ani jestli k tomu nakonec došlo, nebo si to nepamatuju, byl jsem ještě mladý:) . Jestli je ještě používají netuším pokud ten kontrakt byl dokončen...

[Resurrection]

English...

[zkurvenepice]

English...

sorry man, that´s not important:) only personal opinion about replacement for Sa-58 (so in czech and slovak:) )

[el_kab0ng]

Finally back after being banned for making a single reply to a "B" word thread about training.

Anyway, all that nonsense aside, I was suprised to see the CZ female model wasn't holding anything in the pictures..

http://www.reject.org/pr0ject/pictolas/71.jpg

[zkurvenepice]

Finally back after being banned for making a single reply to a "B" word thread about training.

Anyway, all that nonsense aside, I was suprised to see the CZ female model wasn't holding anything in the pictures..

http://www.reject.org/pr0ject/pictolas/71.jpg

short model of the first LADA version, the picture is from about 1995 so etc...

[zkurvenepice]

old first version from 1995

6441

[RBull]

that´s news for me, I know that the first prototype of LADA was designed for soviet 5,45x39 mm ammo on the end of the 80th, but after 1990 was rebuilt for 5,56x45 mm NATO ammo. So that´s question if on Ak-74 base, I have´t information from inside as you:)

You do not have to be firearms expert [where the hell is Remov? I am out of the loop for a while...], but there is quite obvious design similarity between LADA and AK series. Receiver, long stroke piston, locking system, that is all clearly based on AK. The original LADA is using rear sights of much better design than AK, also the disassembly has been "civilized" in small details comparing to AK, not to mention the new safety selector.
Magazines were originally 100% interchangable with AK74, back then when LADA was still chambered in 5.45x39. The current one would fit to any current 5.56x45 AK variant I would bet [Russian, Bulgarian, or Polish]. In fact, I see Polish Beryl as closest counterpart to LADA in latest development of AK system outside Russia & Bulgaria.

AK and also Vz58 for that matter are difficult to change into more modern and more modular systems due their principal design philosophy. These both vere designed as extremely robust, reliable and simple weapons, but 50-60 years ago. The design philosophy of modern NATO doctrine is more reflected in G36, FN SCAR, or HK 416 designs IMHO. These weapons may lack the "charm' of goold old steel & wood pieces, but they are modular with easily interchangable inner parts gropuped into blocks, works better with various optical sights and other accessories.

I am not trying to get into argument with you though, just saying how I see things... :)

[Andrew116]

I want me one of those Slovak LAUGO LG 205

[zkurvenepice]

You do not have to be firearms expert [where the hell is Remov? I am out of the loop for a while...], but there is quite obvious design similarity between LADA and AK series. Receiver, long stroke piston, locking system, that is all clearly based on AK. The original LADA is using rear sights of much better design than AK, also the disassembly has been "civilized" in small details comparing to AK, not to mention the new safety selector.
Magazines were originally 100% interchangable with AK74, back then when LADA was still chambered in 5.45x39. The current one would fit to any current 5.56x45 AK variant I would bet [Russian, Bulgarian, or Polish]. In fact, I see Polish Beryl as closest counterpart to LADA in latest development of AK system outside Russia & Bulgaria.

AK and also Vz58 for that matter are difficult to change into more modern and more modular systems due their principal design philosophy. These both vere designed as extremely robust, reliable and simple weapons, but 50-60 years ago. The design philosophy of modern NATO doctrine is more reflected in G36, FN SCAR, or HK 416 designs IMHO. These weapons may lack the "charm' of goold old steel & wood pieces, but they are modular with easily interchangable inner parts gropuped into blocks, works better with various optical sights and other accessories.

I am not trying to get into argument with you though, just saying how I see things... :)

Ok man:) I am not firearm expert, I consider me to be aircraft expert maybe:) , so I will try to send special email request about information of LADA´s evolution, past and future to PROTOTYPA Brno or ask for interview:) . I am a journalist, but not for military topics or this forum:) so I will try to lie a little in the email:) ....