50th anniversary of the start of the battle at Dien Bien Phu

[He219]

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VUNG TAU, VIET NAM: (FILES) This file photo dated 11 February 1947 shows the French ship "Ile de France" bringing French troops to Indochina as it anchors in Vung Tau harbor ("Saint Jacques Cape"). Some seven years later, France's defeat on the battlefields at Dien Bien Phu was not only a critical event in Vietnam's emergence as an independent nation state, but it also had a key impact on anti-colonialism movements elsewhere. Saturday March 13, 2004 will mark the 50th anniversary of the start of the battle at Dien Bien Phu. AFP PHOTO/INTERCONTINENTALE/FILES AFP PHOTO/FILES (Photo credit should read AFP/AFP/***** Images)

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DIEN BIEN PHU, VIET NAM: Young boys play with one of the artillery guns used by Vietnamese troops during the Dien Bien Phu battle in 1954 now on display at the Dien Bien Phu museum, 14 March 2004. Vietnam began 13 March 2004 celebrations marking the 50th anniversary of the battle at Dien Bien Phu between mostly French troop and Vietnamese troops. Billed by military scholars as one of the greatest battles of the 20th century, the siege of Dien Bien Phu forced France to abandon all hopes of recreating a colonial empire in Indochina. Some 3,000 French troops and as many as 10,000 Vietnamese died in the battle, according to historians. AFP PHOTO/HOANG DINH NAM (Photo credit should read HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/***** Images)

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A man rides in a buffalo cart as it passes by a French abandoned artillery battery still kept as a war relic on what was the battlefield in Dien Bien Phu, 07 May 2003. Vietnam marks 07 May the 49th anniversary of the victory of Dien Bien Phu against French troops in 1954. The victory put an end to the French decades-long occupation of the country. AFP PHOTO (Photo credit should read -/AFP/***** Images)

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DIEN BIEN PHU, VIET NAM: This picture taken 07 May 1954 shows a Vietnamese soldier waving a flag atop a French PC as others assault the area at the Dien Bien Phu battlefield.

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DIEN BIEN PHU, VIET NAM: This picture taken 07 May 1954 shows French Chief Commander of Dien Bien Phu garrison Colonel Christian de la Croix de Castries (2nd L) and his unidentified aids surrending to Vietnamese troops after the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu. Vietnam will mark 13 March 2004 the 50th anniversary of the start of the siege of Dien Bien Phu, the epic battle that precipitated the collapse of French colonial rule in Indochina. The fighting began March 13, 1954, and 56 days later, 07 May, shell-shocked survivors of the French garnison hoisted the white flag to signal the end to one of the greatest battles of the 20th century. AFP PHOTO/VNA/FILES (Photo credit should read AFP/AFP/***** Images)

Updated images Here (http://editorial.*****images.com/source/CFW/imageResults.aspx?s=ImagesSearchState|0|15|0|1|||0|0|0|0|7|Dien+Bien+Phu&p=7) ....

[Kingpin]

I have read about this battle. Poor French legionaires. :(
US received their warning call about Vietnam long before Tonkin.

[Pégase]

http://www.dienbienphu.org (www.dienbienphu.org/english/)

[Maj C]

Suggest reading "Hell in a Very Small Place" by Bernard Fall (himself later KIA in Vietnam while writing about US involvement) Probably the best book about Dien Bien Phu.

What I think is interesting too is IIRC, most of the French troops there were not even ethnically French (i.e. white european) most were North African, South Vietnamese, etc.

[fantassin]

Probably the best book about Dien Bien Phu

Probably the best book in English....because it's the only one !




most of the French troops there were not even ethnically French (i.e. white european) most were North African, South Vietnamese, etc

Another myth...there were plenty of French units there in DBP; to name a few, the 1er BPC, the 6°BPC, the 8°BPC, the 1er Chasseurs, the 2nd Bn of the 1er RCP, many different artillery units, all the officers and most NCOs of the Foreign Legion, Vietnamese and Colonial units, the air crews, the naval air crews...



This picture taken 07 May 1954 shows a Vietnamese soldier waving a flag atop a French PC as others assault the area at the Dien Bien Phu battlefield

This picture was a reconstruction done after the end of the battle and filmed by a russian director who was flown in especially for this purpose.
There was NO white flag flown over DBP.

[OldRecon]

Which unit was commanded by Jaques Bigeard?

And what became of him and the other French "colonels" taking part in the battle after Dien Bien Phu?

Was it true that Col Langlais sort of ran the show rather than Castries when things started to get real serious?

[aktarian]

What I think is interesting too is IIRC, most of the French troops there were not even ethnically French (i.e. white european) most were North African, South Vietnamese, etc.

They call it Foreign Legion, you know.....

[volfram]

What I think is interesting too is IIRC, most of the French troops there were not even ethnically French (i.e. white european) most were North African, South Vietnamese, etc.

They call it Foreign Legion, you know.....
Not only foreign legion also colonial "troops"consisting local soldier as a part of french army.

[DANJANOU]

Basically it was the French Colonial Army that fought ( and was destroyed) there. That includes units of the Legion, locally raised units ( Vietnamese, Meo, and Laotion) and North African Units.

Fall's book as well as being one of the best and most accurate accounts (he had access to Viet Minh documents and stuff that they had captured and interviewed combatants on both sides), also has the complete order of battle.

It should be noted that many of the "European" units (Legion, Colonial Paras etc) had contingents of local troops attached to them to bring them up to strength.

[Pad75]

@ldRecon

Marcel Bigeard was in command of the 6 BPC (battalion de Parachutiste Coloniaux). He have been drop with is battalion at the beginning of the battle when the airborne troops took the Airfield of Dien Bien Phu from the Vietminh during the operation Castor (23rd November 1953). The 6 BPC then has been retrieve from the strong point.

The 6 BPC was send back during the battle and his arrival was a big improvement in moral’s camp.

Unfortunately the battle was lost already when two of the strong point the Hills Gabrielle and Beatrice was lost at the beginning of Marsh.

The head quarter at Hanoi sent reinforcement (airborne battalion), but few units by few units when a big reinforcement at once could have probably save Dien Bien Phu by retaking the two lost hills. At the end of the battle thousand of soldiers ask to be drop on the camp even when every one knew that the camp would collapse. Most of the reinforcement at the end have been drop at night at 110 m under arty barrage. It was their first jump.

13 000 prisoners have been made. 3000 only have been relieved by the Vietminh 3 month latter. Those guys died of starvation.

The unit at Dien Biuen Phu was:
5eme Bawouan (100% Vietnamese), 6 eme BPC, 8° Choc, 2/1 RCP - Airborne
4th and 7th Algerian Skirmisher regiment (part of), Some Thai units some Morocco’s troops - Colonial troops

1er BEP (airborn), 2eme BEP(airborne) , 13eme DBLE, 3 REI - Legion.
A big part of the legionnaires where Former German soldiers (Wehrmarth and SS)
50% of the personnels including Legion was Vietnamese like in all French units. At this end of Indochina war the French Army where fighting for Vietnam not for French colony.

10 Chaffee tanks called the Bisons gave some Armour support. They have been transport in pieces by the C47.

The French have been the first to drop a bulldozer with parachutes.

A big part of the air drop supply have been made by some US pilots who where operating for the CIA. Some of them have been shot down and died.


Bigeard after Dien Bien Phu made the war in Algeria commanding an airborne regiment. He have been latter Minister of Defense.
He is still alive. He was the model of Raspeguy in the book les Centurions. A movie called Lost command have been made.


Langlais was the real commander of the camp but he was quite a too much "big head". Him and Bigeard had a fight during the battle...

Unfortunatly the best commander LT Colonel Gaucher have been killed at the bigining of the battle in his shelter in Gabrielle by a 105 mm.

[PsihoKeke]

What about Dien Bien Phu by Jules Roy? Btw, I read about the whit flag at command post in the Damned die Hard. Also wasnt Gaucher the comander of artillery in garrison who commited suicide after fall of Gabrielle becouse he took defeat as personall responsibility.

[Pad75]

NO!

Gaucher was a Legion Officer and one of the best tactician. The fall of the 2 hills is due in part with his death. Gaucher was in charge of the Northern part of the camp. He was killed the 13th of Marsh on Beatrice with the 3 officers of his staff...

Gabrielle has been lost 2 days after. The bad luck was clearly on the French side. One battalion of Para of the Legion counter attack on the hill who was nearly to collapse.
The 5th battalion of the 7th Algerian Skirmisher who defend Gabrielle was near to collapse at the beginning of the counter attack. But one of the officers misunderstood the message from the HQ and the Algerian evacuate Gabrielle just before the Legion reach the upside of the hill.

After the fall of Gabrielle and Beatrice the French force could not use the airfield. Unfortunately all Dien Bien Phu strategy was build around it.

The colonel in charge of the Artillery who commits suicide was the Colonel Piroth. Piroth commit suicide mainly because he pushed hard on Navarre who build the plan of Dien Bien Phu and help him in the idea of this camp strategy. He said that in no way the Vietminh could bring some Artillery and if they could he would without a doubt destroy it with the 155 mm batteries. Langlais humiliate him after the first strike of the Vietminh artillery and the lost of Gabrielle and Beatrice. Piroth was totally depress after those lost.

No white flag over Dien Bien Phu. There was just a cease-fire. The HQ at Hanoi asks especially for that.

[PsihoKeke]

Sorry, mistook Piroth for Gaucher.

[Pad75]

you're welcome PsihoKekec :)

[Maj C]

Well no matter what the ethnic make-up of the French forces there - it was a gallant fight, n'est ce pas? There was some great interviews with DBP survivors in the "Vietnam the 10,000 day war" documentary...I recall one of the French vets talking about how the paras and legionairres went into the fight singing their songs and the Viet troops singing "La Marseillaise" since they didn't have a song. France's colonial legacy to the U.S., at least you can go to any Vietnamese community here in the states and find really good croissant! :)


I used to argue with a college teacher who claimed to be a "special forces" Vietnam vet. He would say we never should have fought - the communist government in Hanoi represented the will of the Vietnamese etc. He showed a liberal documentary which counterposed Gen Westmoreland saying "life is cheap in the Orient" with footage of Vietnamese crying at a funeral. I pointed out that the funeral was for an ARVN soldier and that obviously there were many Vietnamese who were willing to fight and die for South. We also had a Viet refugee student sitting in the class - I pointed to him and said if the communists are so great why did he risk his life to get here??? no answer from the Sparticist.

[Pad75]

I recall one of the French vets talking about how the paras and legionairres went into the fight singing their songs and the Viet troops singing "La Marseillaise" since they didn't have a song.

The Vietnameese troop who did that was the 5th Bawouan. It was a Para batallion of the Vietnameese Army. The officer was the Commandant Bottela. A big part of the Officers and NCO of teh Bawouan where french.

[Maj C]

Pad75, I hope our Gen Jones is doing well over there...I know we have always maintained good relations with the French military. A friend of mine is stationed in Djibouti and says the French have been great hosts.

[Pad75]

That's what I have heard too from the French side, despite the political mess between the govenement the relationship between the US Army and the French Army are still great. And I 'm really happy with that :)

Some US Forces have done the French Commando and Desert Course at Djibouti.
I have seen some pics on the US Marine web site if I remember.

[Pad75]

It's funny the last pic with de Castrie as prisonner you can see the two guys on the right wich are fully identifiable:
with the cap it's Marcel Bigeard and with the bush hat it's the Colonel Langlais.

I can tell you that they really did not want to give the Viethmin a picture of them as prisonners...

[Irish-Fianoglach]

I am a member of the Irish Defence Forces and presently undergoing a course for promotion to Senior NCO rank. As part of my course I am required to give a talk on the Battle of Dien Bien Phu for one hour. This includes photographs, presentations, or what ever I want to use. The area that I have being told to pay special attention is to the following.

The administration and logistical systems used by the French Military at the Battle of Dien Bien Phu

Lessons learned on the above.

I would be grateful if you can help me with this matter.

[baboon6]

Get hold of Martin Windrow's book The Last Valley. He goes into great detail about the administrative and logistics problems of the French in Indochina in general and DBP specifically- such as inadequate/outdated equipment (especially radios and infantry heavy weapons), inadequate training of replacements before their arrival in Indochina, shortage of experienced junior officers and NCOs, lack of cooperation between the army and air force.

[Irish-Fianoglach]

Cheers Baboon6. I much appericate that information. I will see if I can get my hands on the book.

Thanks again

[Irish]

Cheers Baboon6. I much appericate that information. I will see if I can get my hands on the book.

Thanks again


Try/ring the Library in the Curragh..they might have it.

Best of luck with your talk.:)

[monocone]

This picture was a reconstruction done after the end of the battle and filmed by a russian director who was flown in especially for this purpose.
There was NO white flag flown over DBP.

Hello.
I would like to know the name of the officer who raised the flag to this prepare picture. Was he a combatant?
Thanks,