Spain 'to withdraw Iraq troops'

[MolliG]

Spain 'to withdraw Iraq troops'

Spain's Socialist Party prime minister-elect has confirmed his intention to pull Spanish troops out of Iraq.

Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said: "The war in Iraq was a disaster, the occupation of Iraq is a disaster."

The Socialist Party won a shock poll victory after voters appeared to turn on the government over its handling of the Madrid bombings.

Spain, with more than 1,300 troops in Iraq, supported the US-led war on Iraq despite much domestic opposition...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3512144.stm

[cold0]

So, in a terrorist mind,placing a well-timed bomb in train station and killing 200 innocents can change radically the foreign policity of a country.

Bin laden and his cornies would be happy now; I'm just scared to think at the next political election in my country....

[Loco]

So, in a terrorist mind,placing a well-timed bomb in train station and killing 200 innocents can change radically the foreign policity of a country.

Bin laden and his cornies would be happy now; I'm just scared to think at the next political election in my country....
It wouldn´t the first time in Italy. Remember Aldo Moro, and the bombing of Bolonia station, in both cases they influded in election. For people don´t know what I´m talking about, Aldo Moro was a former italian Prime Minister, and a man with prestige in all europe, killled by a left-revolutionary group, Red Brigades. And Bolonia Station was blowed up by a fascist group, killing up 80 people.

[Vance]

...And Spain falls.

[Frens]

****ing socialists! :bash:

[Hullebullen]

...in my opinion the right thing to do would be to stand firm...

[Argyll]

...And Spain falls.



No Vance,the people of Spain have spoken,they were against the war right from the start,what you have witnessed is Democracy at it's best!

Aznar never listened to his people,look what happened!

[Chasseur_Alpin]

agree with argyll.

[Lobo]

Zapatero said that he will pull back the troops only if before next June they aren't under UN command. And his promise was made time ago.

[cut]

...And Spain falls.



No Vance,the people of Spain have spoken,they were against the war right from the start,what you have witnessed is Democracy at it's best!

Aznar never listened to his people,look what happened!

I agree but there is a difference between fighting the war and keeping the peace once the damage has been done.

[MARINO]

The Spaniards have choose dishonnour :(
and it won't be the end of islamic terrorism in Spain, ****ing socialista, i'm reconsidering to enter in the army :(
The worst week of spanish history, be have been totally defeated.
Spanish are cowards.

[fdt]

The Spaniards have choose dishonnour :(
and it won't be the end of islamic terrorism in Spain, f*** socialista, i'm reconsidering to enter in the army :(
The worst week of spanish history, be have been totally defeated.
Spanish are cowards.I hate politicians too...

[ShadowNeo]

I think it has been said before, but the Spanish are a proud people, who do not like to be misled. The Government should not have treated the attacks the way they have, and it is this that has been their undoing in the election.

You must keep in mind though, I believe the Spanish people are all for the War on Terror, as is everyone in the civilised world. As in many countries though, the main focus of disagreement is Iraq. Iraq will always be a contraversial issue in world politics, and its something we have to accept.

[fdt]

I think it has been said before, but the Spanish are a proud people, who do not like to be misled. The Government should not have treated the attacks the way they have, and it is this that has been their undoing in the election.

You must keep in mind though, I believe the Spanish people are all for the War on Terror, as is everyone in the civilised world. As in many countries though, the main focus of disagreement is Iraq. Iraq will always be a contraversial issue in world politics, and its something we have to accept.Yeah, we all are in war with terror, except for some politicians who choose not to notice that...

[MARINO]

Spaniards are not like 19th century, as you can see they are really coward and silly.

[scoone]

They main part of the population didn't want to send trrops to Irak.
In some way this may look like the 19th century. But we are not cowards, just a bunch of idiots.

[Durandal]

Democracy or not, the message is quite clear. If you do enough damage to a nation, a small group of violent men can determine the future...

This is my prediction...

We will see an increase in violence in Iraq between now and the end of summer.

This (and Spain's democratic elections) influences our American presidential election.

Kerry wins.

We see an even lagers scale of violence in Europe and Iraq, probably some other middle east bombings and maybe a couple in Africa.

America pulls out, along with what allies are left.

I REALLY hope I am wrong, but history has proven otherwise...

I have to say. This all really disgusts me.

[Loco]

Spaniards are not like 19th century, as you can see they are really coward and silly.

They main part of the population didn't want to send trrops to Irak.
In some way this may look like the 19th century. But we are not cowards, just a bunch of idiots.

Last time I tell you, you don´t have any right to insult Spain nor spanish. Is you the silly and childish, I feel shame of listening an spanish talking like you. And go to the hell with the people don´t respect spanish decissions.
Edited: If you´re so brave, I tell you to go to Vallecas to tell them or to the injured people who went out of hospital only for voting they are cowards and idiots. I would say more, but I´d prefer to tell you face to face.

[Loco]

...And Spain falls.



No Vance,the people of Spain have spoken,they were against the war right from the start,what you have witnessed is Democracy at it's best!

Aznar never listened to his people,look what happened!

I agree but there is a difference between fighting the war and keeping the peace once the damage has been done.
Anyway, spanish will hold the acquired compromises. We haven´t to demonstrate we respect what we signed. Whatever extremists, fascists or simply silly people can say, spanish people is adult and clever, and brave like always was. I won´t talk more about that.

[Durandal]

And go to the hell with the people don´t respect spanish decissions.

Sorry their guy, a democratic choice is always a good choice. That does not make it any less stupid.

[steel bonnet]

Marino,

I hope very soon the 21st Centuries Answer to El Cid will appear to lead the fight again ISLAMIC Terrorists.

Sorry to see that Socialists have gotten into power there,As you say a Very SAD Week for Spain,possibly the rest of the CIVILIZED world too.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

[Durandal]

I was just reading a Ralph Peter's op ed piece on Spain, the coalition, and the bombings...I was hoping this would not have happened, but unfortuantely it did.

Here is the article...

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/17021.htm

[ShadowNeo]

I think the sentiment that some people seem to be showing when they post, is that somehow, the Spanish government has gone soft on terrorists. That is clearly not the case.

It may not seem like such a contraversial issue in the US, but in the rest of the world, opinion on Iraq is hugely divided. I must admit, that when the UK took the decision to support the US in its war against Iraq I was very much for it. I put trust in the UK and US government's claims that Iraq was a genuine and current threat.

In hindsight, the evidence presented and the outcome of the war have changed my views somewhat, and as time goes by I personally tend to associate Iraq less and less with the War on Terror.

I respect Spain's decision to withdraw troops from Iraq and I see no dishonour in this. Spain stood by its allies in a war that was touted to be just, to be righteous and it did this admirably. Now that the dust has settled and the outcome of the war has been witnessed, I believe Spain has done the right thing.

[scoone]

In hindsight, the evidence presented and the outcome of the war have changed my views somewhat, and as time goes by I personally tend to associate Iraq less and less with the War on Terror.

I agree. I don't know if a good thing has been done but it's only the first day after the elections.I don't think that we are going to beat retreat and run away from Irak.And of course we´ll keep fighting terrorism, first in our homeland. All of the ones behind the Atocha station bombing shall be persecuted by law. We must hunt them down.

[HELEX]

Ok, just a very simple Question:


What is the Link between Iraq and the war against Terrorism?


Even the US-Govvermend said there were no contacts between Iraq and Al Kaida! :cantbeli:

Is this some kind of all american stupor?

Iraq is not related to the war against terrorism, so it is irrelevant for Battle against Al Kaida!

[cold0]

Sorry their guy, a democratic choice is always a good choice. That does not make it any less stupid.

100% agree.

But Spaign is democracy and the spanish people have made their choise; it's nothing coward in this, Marino. Probably the terrosists grasp this concept better than us and use our valors against us.

I regret only tha fact that in western civilization we don't have the will to defend our valors and that a bunch a bastards can blackmail us simply killing innocents people.

[Kellhound]

The results of this elections a punishment to Aznar government, not about the bombings.

Aznar's government has been pissing off spanish people since the first day of mandate, through the "chapapote", economic policy, and general blunders of all colors (one being the Iraq war).
The last drop was the way they tried to misled people withholding info about the bombings (contradictory and scarce to begin with).

And it's been many months since socialists said they'll retire troops from Iraq if it didn't become a UN mission.

Many of us in the army didn't support war in Iraq, but not for it's objectives, but for the way it was carried.
Once inside, like it or not, we support our allies with tooth and nails, if it's needed. That despite equipment or training shortcomings, as the spanish in WWII proved in both sides, allies and axis.
Just look at our history. Maybe we don't win many wars, but we sure as hell know how to win battles and sell our skins dearly.

But I hope we win this one against terrorists, be them national or foreign, muslim, christian, agnostig or martian.
Just point us to a target and don't stand in the middle.

[pinkeye]

and, as pointed out, the new spanish government has pledged to keep spanish soliders in iraq if the united nations assumes command. this [b]is not bowing to terrorism.

furthermore, many will argue that invading iraq had little to do with actually combatting terrorism, for there were and are more pressing targets (e.g. iran, syria, etc.) for possible military intervention. rather then addressing the social, economic, and political problems that create threats, many of you wrongly believe that purely military solutions will remedy the current malaise afflicting the international community.

[Vance]

Ok, just a very simple Question:


What is the Link between Iraq and the war against Terrorism?


Even the US-Govvermend said there were no contacts between Iraq and Al Kaida! :cantbeli:

Is this some kind of all american stupor?

Iraq is not related to the war against terrorism, so it is irrelevant for Battle against Al Kaida!
Is anyone even talking to you?

And besides, there might not have been any ties between Al Queda and Iraq, but now, there surely is.

[scoone]

Ok, just a very simple Question:


What is the Link between Iraq and the war against Terrorism?


Even the US-Govvermend said there were no contacts between Iraq and Al Kaida! :cantbeli:

Is this some kind of all american stupor?

Iraq is not related to the war against terrorism, so it is irrelevant for Battle against Al Kaida!
Is anyone even talking to you?

And besides, there might not have been any ties between Al Queda and Iraq, but now, there surely is.

HELEX is on his right to post whatever he wants. And btw I didn't ask him but I have read him.

[stephane from Paris]

I put again my reply in other thread!:

I'll add for Durendal that you should stay cool since Bush has a card in his hand, a card that appears just a few weeks before elections!
Notice the "2 "part of my post!


1- As i said several months ago, the OIF wasn't a war against terrorism like OEF is, Bush gang told tons of lies to sells this war!
I said and the bad events give me right, that this war will do islamists terrorists and islamists integrists more powerfull! This war put Iraq in a new lebanon way! Integrists who were under Sadam's tyrany are now the biggest power in Iraq (in shiit part and in the sunnist one too), Kurds are on the way to have their own country (Turkey is very happy of that).
The muslims streets views now Bin Laden like a new Robin Hood!

2- Now that the bad thing is done, the biggest danger should be , for spain and for rest of countries who are in Iraq, to leave the country! This gave to integrists the right to says: "looks how powerfull Western countries are afraid of us! We can use the same way to liberates our oppressed brothers".
3- I said that the countries who will pay the higher price of OIF will be europeans! I'm just surprising that Spain is the first, i thought that mine or UK should be the first due to our importants muslim communities! BTW it's just a question of time, i hopes that europeans security services will be abble to protect us!

4- For french bashers, France was the first european country who fight against islamic terrorism (several bombs in Paris) since 20years, but this war need a secret war which is far more efficient.

As i was in the subway 1hour before a bomb striked other subway several years ago, i understand spannish and i give them all my support.
We are all from Madrid this time!
Regards
stephane

[Argyll]

British security measures are a complete joke,what the clueless clowns in power do not realise,is that just because London is the Capital city,does not make it the Most likely target!!
I've been in shopping centres packed with people,no Police or security seen,I've been on a Ferry packed with vehicles,and people,not a single bag searched,not a single vehicle checked,talk about targets of opportunity.

And will I be surprised when the attack happens ......nope,surprised it took so long........yes!

You want to combat terrorism........start thinking like them!

We have elections in June........watch this space!!

[wholagun]

well us Poles have no problem leading the multinational sector in Iraq past June 30th which was when the Spanish were suppose to take over from the Poles. If they do decide to leave we are more then able to contine our work.

[Aeron]

Marino,

I hope very soon the 21st Centuries Answer to El Cid will appear to lead the fight again ISLAMIC Terrorists.

Sorry to see that Socialists have gotten into power there,As you say a Very SAD Week for Spain,possibly the rest of the CIVILIZED world too.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

I agree with all that ^

[sierraone]

Yeah they got themselves off the Al Qaeda list well done!! So they condemned all the western countries that will have elections to have 200 casualties the week before. Sure now all the opposition parties will have on their agenda to pull out the troops from Iraq. They will say 'see what they did to Spain? do you want to follow?'

Spaniards gave a great victory to the terrorists. Aznar's party was ahead in the polls the very morning of the attacks. People that were going to vote for him switched sides blaming him for the attacks because he sided with US and UK. They spat on the graves of 200 of their own people. It is not cowardice, it is pure idiocy. Without realising -I hope- is that they proved that terrorism works.

Here in Greece now we are waiting for our turn to the slaughter.
Thank you Spain! Thank you Zapatero very f****ing much!

[MARINO]

Last time I tell you, you don´t have any right to insult Spain nor spanish. Is you the silly and childish, I feel shame of listening an spanish talking like you. And go to the hell with the people don´t respect spanish decissions.
Edited: If you´re so brave, I tell you to go to Vallecas to tell them or to the injured people who went out of hospital only for voting they are cowards and idiots. I would say more, but I´d prefer to tell you face to face.

Tell it to my grand mother his husband was killed by ETA, a lot of friends of my father are now death, todos los putos rojos sois igual de demamgogos.Pagaremos todos por vuestra insensatez.

[Gordon]

Well, actually, from what i've read and heard they didn't blame the government for the attacks at all, or the fact that the government sided with the US and UK in the Iraqi war. It was the fact that the government tried to cover up who was responsible for the bombing by saying it was definitely ETA, that was what got people so riled ... the fact that their own government was blatantly lying to its people, that's why so many people decided to change their vote.

Also, as Argyll, Cut and others have said, it was always a decision against the majority of the Spanish population to go war, and now they're pulling out of that war ... an example of democracy prevailing, maybe. Also this action wouldn't make the Spanish people cowardly at all, it maybe the wrong decision "by the government" or not. Imagine if Kerry gets into power in the US and pulls US troops out of Iraq ... would this make all the US people cowardly, I don't think so.

Maybe i've got some of the above wrong but there's enough Spanish people here to correct me so feel free.

[Mark Sman]

One of the main reasons I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq before it happened was that I doubted the will of the U.S. to see it through to the end.

I didn't even factor in allies since I figured we would have none left after a few months and woud have to go it alone. I am pleasantly suprised to see that is not the case.

However, I doubted the U.S. people's will to see a bloody war through to victory. Especially with the presidential election coming up. Most people have no concept of the nature of war, and the ones calling for blood the loudest at first will reverse themselves first also. Most people are blowhards.

I am essentially for a U.S. isolationist policy in a military sense. Diplomatically and economically we should be engaged worldwide. But militarily you are going to have to show me heap big reason before I can see commiting troops.

If we need to knock someone down, we should hit hard with air power, then send in a mixed team of air assault units to hunt and kill the key figures. Continue to use air power as interdiction to prevent heavy units from counter-attacking. Once you have killed the key leadership, seized the intel you want, and totalled the infrastructure items you need to . . . pull out. Screw rebuilding. I mean really. F 'em. I couldn't care less.

This folks is the brutal and ugly nature of war. Its about violence and destruction. And it should only be fought when you absolutely have no other choice. All other words about this are either idiocy or variations on the theme.

As for Spain. Their troops will be missed. Their country is undergoing a very painful time, the end results of which haven't yet shown themselves.

I wish Spain and its people the best, and I hope the injured will heal.


Man, that is born of a woman, hath but a short time to live, and is full of misery. He cometh up, and is cut down, like a flower; he fleeth as it were a shadow, and never continueth in one stay.

[Loco]

Last time I tell you, you don´t have any right to insult Spain nor spanish. Is you the silly and childish, I feel shame of listening an spanish talking like you. And go to the hell with the people don´t respect spanish decissions.
Edited: If you´re so brave, I tell you to go to Vallecas to tell them or to the injured people who went out of hospital only for voting they are cowards and idiots. I would say more, but I´d prefer to tell you face to face.

Tell it to my grand mother his husband was killed by ETA, a lot of friends of my father are now death, todos los putos rojos sois igual de demamgogos.Pagaremos todos por vuestra insensatez.
Ok, I´m sorry, Marino, I´m sorry by the husband of your grandmother(your grandfather?). You have a hard life. Your girl friend was in Atocha Station, your uncle ¿or the cousin or your granpa? died in Sidi Ifni and ad infinitum. Too much bad luck. That´s the last thing I expected to listen of you, "puto rojo". Olvídame, majo, pero por la buena imágen de los españoles, sería mejor que no hablases de nosotros en términos generales, mamoncete, y crece de una vez.

[scoone]

Last time I tell you, you don´t have any right to insult Spain nor spanish. Is you the silly and childish, I feel shame of listening an spanish talking like you. And go to the hell with the people don´t respect spanish decissions.
Edited: If you´re so brave, I tell you to go to Vallecas to tell them or to the injured people who went out of hospital only for voting they are cowards and idiots. I would say more, but I´d prefer to tell you face to face.

Tell it to my grand mother his husband was killed by ETA, a lot of friends of my father are now death, todos los putos rojos sois igual de demamgogos.Pagaremos todos por vuestra insensatez.
Ok, I´m sorry, Marino, I´m sorry by the husband of your grandmother(your grandfather?). You have a hard life. Your girl friend was in Atocha Station, your uncle ¿or the cousin or your granpa? died in Sidi Ifni and ad infinitum. Too much bad luck. That´s the last thing I expected to listen of you, "puto rojo". Olvídame, majo, pero por la buena imágen de los españoles, sería mejor que no hablases de nosotros en términos generales, mamoncete, y crece de una vez.


Too bad , a fight betwen spaniards. Like Sir Winston Churchill said once "Spain , blood, blood, blood"

[Loco]

Too bad , a fight betwen spaniards. Like Sir Winston Churchill said once "Spain , blood, blood, blood"
No, insults, insults, insults. It´s not beauty being called idiot, coward or now "puto rojo". By this time, I won´t tell it to the brother in law of the cousin of the uncle of my granny, who was a maquis in pyrinees, that Marino insulted me because he was angry about election, and so Marino will sleep quiet this night. Next time, I don´t promise I won´t call my "puto rojo maquis" relative. :P

[scoone]

Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim. Ovid

Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.

[Loco]

Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim. Ovid

Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Tonight, what I´d say to our Nauta is
"Noli me tangere", that in true and plain spanish means something "no me toq.."##...."

Well, that´s all for today, now I´m relaxed after some dark days.
Ehh...Scoone, I forgot a lot of my latin lessons, so May you translate to latin the epitaph in the tomb of centurion Marco Cacabelus, from Legio Gemina VII, in english says something like "Give me a beer, I´m thirsty". Thanks in advance.
Bye, ;)

[scoone]

I think that we can say someting like:

Siccor , Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
But Im not sure of the correct conjugation of the verb siccus

[Argyll]

I know what "Puto Rojo " means,and quite frankly I'd find it insulting too,therfore this thread will now be locked!!