Russian racism 'out of control'

[ed316]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif
Russian racism 'out of control'
Racist killings in Russia are "out of control", according to a report by international human rights watchdog Amnesty International.
The report into violent racism shows that at least 28 people were killed and 366 were assaulted in 2005.
This year there have already been a number of high-profile cases, including the death of a Senegalese student.
Amnesty condemns discrimination by the authorities and a failure to properly record or investigate racist crimes.

Russia's police and prosecutors need to tackle head-on the growing scourge of violent racism in Russia
Kate Allen
Amnesty International


The Amnesty report, entitled "Russian Federation: Violent racism out of control", includes examples of police and prosecutors routinely classifying murders and serious assaults by skinhead extremists as lesser crimes of "hooliganism".
Amnesty International UK Director Kate Allen said racist killings and violent attacks against foreigners, visible ethnic minorities and anti-racist campaigners in Russia were out of control.
"Some Russian authorities are turning a blind eye," she said. "Instead of seeing only 'hooliganism' in vicious organised attacks on students from African, south-east Asian countries and non-Slavic Russians from Chechnya, Russia's police and prosecutors need to tackle head-on the growing scourge of violent racism in Russia."
She said President Vladimir Putin's government should adopt a comprehensive "plan of action" to combat racism and anti-Semitism.
Protests
Cases highlighted in the Amnesty report include the killing of nine-year-old Tajik girl Khursheda Sultonov.




She was attacked with other members of her family in St Petersburg in February 2004 by a gang. Khursheda was stabbed nine times in the chest, stomach and arms and died at the scene.
Another victim was Vu Anh Tuan, a 20-year-old Vietnamese student, stabbed to death in October 2004 by a gang of 18 skinheads near a metro station in St Petersburg.
Dmitri Krayukhin, head of anti-racist organisation United Europe, told Amnesty he had received threats to "cut off your head".
He has repeatedly been denied protection from the authorities in Orel, western Russia.
The report also heard from members of the Roma community who have stopped travelling into St Petersburg city centre, having been the victims of attacks. Russian citizens and foreigners living in the big cities have led demonstrations against the attacks and the authorities' failure to tackle the problem.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/4969296.stm

Published: 2006/05/04 07:22:20 GMT

© BBC MMVI


STRONG!!!!

[EsoognomEhT]

More of your snivelling anti-Russian comments.

[ed316]

You caughtt me. WOW!!!! Now run along and go cry somehwere else.

[EsoognomEhT]

What's wrong, willing to give but not receive?
How is me replying like this, any different from your reply in the other thread?
Notice in the other thread I even had the decency to provide you with a civil answer.

[ed316]

You caught me!!! I would take you seriously but your just a high school kid. Notice my civil response?

[EsoognomEhT]

Perhaps you should reaquaint yourself with the education system of the United Kingdom. High school students typically are aged 13-16, with some going on to sixth form which finishes at 18.

Again, you can give but are not willing to take.

[ed316]

I don't live there so I can careless. Take what? You didn't insult me.

[EsoognomEhT]

You mean you couldn't care less.

You could/can care less indicates that you have a modicum of care for the specific subject, since it is entirely possible to care less about it.

You couldn't care less indicates it is physically impossible to care any less about the subject.

[ed316]

No. I meant I can careless. I'm American so why should I?

[EsoognomEhT]

You are mis-using the term.

So, how much do you care since you can care less about it?
In a scale of one to ten? 5?

[ed316]

I'm not a student so I can careless.

[EsoognomEhT]

What are you caring a modicum about this time? The fact you are mis-using the term?

[ed316]

No. The fact that you choose to respond.

[Hyllus]

Russian racism 'out of control'
No surprise there ... What else can you expect from people who praise the one who thought of them as scum?

[Dalamara]

These reports piss me off to no end... bloody racist bastards.

They attack in ****ing packs and even so they fight dirty... F**king cowards. Not only do they attack with overwhelming numbers, they also attack from behind and kick people in the groin and other dirty sh*t. Scumbags.

[bigvig]

These reports piss me off to no end... bloody racist bastards.

They attack in ****ing packs and even so they fight dirty... F**king cowards. Not only do they attack with overwhelming numbers, they also attack from behind and kick people in the groin and other dirty sh*t. Scumbags.

There's an overwhelmingly black (or African-American for you liberal types) town right next to mine.

Guess what? They do the same thing.

But it isn't called racism when blacks do it right?

Even when they yell out, "HEYYY GET WHITEY".

[Dalamara]

There's an overwhelmingly black (or African-American for you liberal types) town right next to mine.

Guess what? They do the same thing.

But it isn't called racism when blacks do it right?

Even when they yell out, "HEYYY GET WHITEY".

Where do you live?

I seriously doubt that their attacks are on any scale as the attacks in Russia. These scumbags have killed children, the elderly, anyone who isn't white.

A big complaint in Russia is that the police aren't doing anything about it. You know damn well that if a white person got jumped by black gangmembers all of them would be punished to the full extent of the law.

You make it sound like the attacks in Russia are done in retaliation... give me some cases of similar attacks by minorities on white people there. Yea, there aren't any. I can't believe you're even tying to justify what they're doing, guess you're just another racist bastard.

[nagant_m44]

Where do you live?

I seriously doubt that their attacks are on any scale as the attacks in Russia. These scumbags have killed children, the elderly, anyone who isn't white.

A big complaint in Russia is that the police aren't doing anything about it. You know damn well that if a white person got jumped by black gangmembers all of them would be punished to the full extent of the law.

You make it sound like the attacks in Russia are done in retaliation... give me some cases of similar attacks by minorities on white people there. Yea, there aren't any. I can't believe you're even tying to justify what they're doing, guess you're just another racist bastard.

How about chechen terrorists kidnapping russian men, women, children, and elderly persons? I think your in the wrong place. This is not the Black Panther forum.

[ed316]

How about chechen terrorists kidnapping russian men, women, children, and elderly persons? I think your in the wrong place. This is not the Black Panther forum.

What do Chechen terrorist have to do with racist attacks in RUSSIA?

[Dalamara]

How about chechen terrorists kidnapping russian men, women, children, and elderly persons? I think your in the wrong place. This is not the Black Panther forum.

What association do Czechen terrorists have with minorities in St. Petersburg? What association did that 9 year old girl have with Czechen terrorists? For christs sake these skinheads go around in packs and attack ANYONE WHO ISN'T WHITE.

So now I have to be a Black Panther to be against racism? What a f*cked up world we live in...

[ed316]

Dalarma, aren't you Chinese?

[nagant_m44]

What do Chechen terrorist have to do with racist attacks in RUSSIA?
because chechen terrorists attack russian kids in RUSSIA

[Dalamara]

because chechen terrorists attack russian kids in RUSSIA

And... these skinheads aren't attacking Czechens, they're attacking blacks, asians, minorities... not Czechen terrorists.

Learn2Comprehend.

[Dalamara]

Dalarma, aren't you Chinese?

Yep. That's why this really hits home.

[ed316]

because chechen terrorists attack russian kids in RUSSIA

So it justifies the attack on students from SE Asia, Africa, and some non-Slav Russians?

[nagant_m44]

So it justifies the attack on students from SE Asian, Africa, and some non-Slav Russians?

I never said that, you were implying that no one ever attacked russians because they were russian. Anyway, those students probably went to the wrong neighborhoods at the wrong time. It sucks to be naive.

[Dalamara]

Right... where do you live? Maybe I'll come to your house and kill you because you're pretty damn ignorant. Because hey being naive justifys you being killed!

These skinhead groups roam the streets... everywhere. It's not like they're sitting around infront of their houses and see a minority stroll up and attack them because of the opportunity. They ACTIVELY roam the city in SEARCH of minorities to attack. I saw this on the news a few weeks ago and they were attacking people in subways, on streetcorners, basically anywhere they found them. People have been attacked right infront of their homes.

[ed316]

I never said that, you were implying that no one ever attacked russians because they were russian. Anyway, those students probably went to the wrong neighborhoods at the wrong time. It sucks to be naive.

I never implied that. If this was an article on terrorist attack by Chechens then that might the case.

[GazB]

Yeah, only Russia has racist skinheads... and only in Russia do those idiots get around in gangs so that otherwise pathetic loser individuals can get a taste of what it is like to be strong.

Perhaps Russia, however has more pressing problems to deal with first however... when was the last time a western government was told how to form internal policy by an international non government organisation?

[nagant_m44]

Right... where do you live? Maybe I'll come to your house and kill you because you're pretty damn ignorant. Because hey being naive justifys you being killed!

These skinhead groups roam the streets... everywhere. It's not like they're sitting around infront of their houses and see a minority stroll up and attack them because of the opportunity. They ACTIVELY roam the city in SEARCH of minorities to attack. I saw this on the news a few weeks ago and they were attacking people in subways, on streetcorners, basically anywhere they found them. People have been attacked right infront of their homes.

yea and teenagers in the US roam the streets and attack the homeless. **** happens.

[TheStorm]

yea and teenagers in the US roam the streets and attack the homeless. **** happens.

:slap:

You cannot compare a few non-racist attacks in the US to the epidemic in Russia.

[ed316]

Didn't realize a homeless person is some different race.

So are you trying to find excuses for these attacks?

[Dalamara]

yea and teenagers in the US roam the streets and attack the homeless. **** happens.

You're seriously justfying their actions by saying "sh*t happens"?! People murder each other in every country, so by your logic, it's okay and no big deal if I went and killed my neighbor, because "sh*t happens".

This isn't an attack on Russia. This is an attack on racisim. Why can't you guys just agree to the simple fact that it is WRONG for these people to be attacking minorities? Pretty much every post here has been some half-assed attempt to justify the attacks by stating that it happens elsewhere. Yes, it does, but not on such a large scale, and it still doesn't make it right.

[intelligenzija]

this is happening everywhere

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/4965074.stm


but those Russian racists are really stupid. There are many people from the caucasus living in st.petersburg but racists that are killing people are just seriously mentally ill.

[bigvig]

Where do you live? Sorry, it's not only concentrated to where I live. It happens throughout America, especially in inner-cities.


I seriously doubt that their attacks are on any scale as the attacks in Russia. These scumbags have killed children, the elderly, anyone who isn't white. Poor them.

But if those Russians are so against non-whites, then don't ****ing live there. It's that simple.



You make it sound like the attacks in Russia are done in retaliation... give me some cases of similar attacks by minorities on white people there. Yea, there aren't any. I can't believe you're even tying to justify what they're doing, guess you're just another racist bastard. I'm not justifying anything they're doing.

But you're description of what they do and how they do it.....it sounded just like America.

And don't try and pull that racism card on me. I don't give a ****.

[Dalamara]

Poor them.

But if those Russians are so against non-whites, then don't ****ing live there. It's that simple.




I don't even know where to start with this comment. I mean my god...

So I guess during the 1950s and 60s all the blacks should have just moved out of America?

Or, the holocaust wasn't Hitlers fault, all the Jews should have just moved to different countries?

Hmm? How about the genocides in Africa, HEY by your brilliant assumption those people would be fine if they moved!

Where are these people getting the money to move? Where do you propose that they go? Are you going to find new jobs for them?

[Pai Mei]

when was the last time a western government was told how to form internal policy by an international non government organisation?

US is told by Amnesty Intl. to abandon extraordinary renditions, stop using Gitmo, abolish death penalty, etc. Greenpeace says no oil exploration in ANWR, stop illegal logging, and so on. Plenty of intl. NGOs, all of which exert pressure on the 'west'.

[asch]

1. Amnesty International can go fuсk themselves in my opinion.
2. Yes, there is a problem, but in much smaller scale than they pretend to count. btw, this attack in 2004 is sick ****.
3. skinheads - one of "wonderful" presents to Rissia from free(c) world after SU collapse.
4. Ed, take a rest. get beer, go outside, your purging of "corrupt evil Russian Empire" just pathetic last times. yawwwn...

[Kilgor]

1. Amnesty International can go fuсk themselves in my opinion.
2. Yes, there is a problem, but in much smaller scale than they pretend to count. btw, this attack in 2004 is sick ****.
3. skinheads - one of "wonderful" presents to Rissia from free(c) world after SU collapse.
4. Ed, take a rest. get beer, go outside, your purging of "corrupt evil Russian Empire" just pathetic last times. yawwwn...


Racism, xenophobia and scapegoating are more a product of a broken economy and hard times than "wonderful presents" from the west.

When times are bad people want easy identifiable victims.

[asch]

nope. in really hard times (90s) skins was almost invisible. now, stupid pricks want a hobby.
btw, teenagers always fascinating with ideas of strong totalitarism, anarchy, nihilism etc.

i remember things from my childhood, when in early school classes we make a scene about USSR. 15 kids guised themselves in national clothes of 15 republics of SU. i was khirgiz :) and nothing was wrong with all those people.

[GazB]

Right... where do you live? Maybe I'll come to your house and kill you because you're pretty damn ignorant.

So it is OK to kill the ignorant (or more accurately what you perceive as ignorant) but it is not OK to kill based on race or skin colour?

Sounds like you want to kill these skin heads because you are angry. Had it occured to you they might want to kill others because they are angry?
You seem to have a lot in common.
Go shave your head... Amnesty International tells you you must!!!!


US is told by Amnesty Intl. to abandon extraordinary renditions, stop using Gitmo, abolish death penalty, etc. Greenpeace says no oil exploration in ANWR, stop illegal logging, and so on. Plenty of intl. NGOs, all of which exert pressure on the 'west'.

And does the West conform to such demands? Has oil exploration in ANWR stopped? Is Gitmo still a prison? Do US states still impose the death penalty where they see fit? If they don't why should Russia deal with this problem till its good and ready first?

[Asheren]

1. Amnesty International can go fuсk themselves in my opinion.
2. Yes, there is a problem, but in much smaller scale than they pretend to count. btw, this attack in 2004 is sick ****.
3. skinheads - one of "wonderful" presents to Rissia from free(c) world after SU collapse.
4. Ed, take a rest. get beer, go outside, your purging of "corrupt evil Russian Empire" just pathetic last times. yawwwn...

Skinheads one of "wonderful" things that commies had habbit to hide and not report openly in media as long as they beat right peoples like jews or gypsies.

[Kilgor]

And does the West conform to such demands? Has oil exploration in ANWR stopped? Is Gitmo still a prison? Do US states still impose the death penalty where they see fit? If they don't why should Russia deal with this problem till its good and ready first?


He answered your first question and the west gets regular demands on how it should carry out its internal workings. No one expects Russia to bow to demands any more than america does. But to claim only poor russia is the victim of the NGO's is very ignornant. Of course im american they will always be tolerated as a part of a modern open society, and they are closed down in Russia.


Skinheads one of "wonderful" things that commies had habbit to hide and not report openly in media as long as they beat right peoples like jews or gypsies.

Of course, political thuggery and victimization was tollerated so long as it was a part of state policy.

[Mr.K]

Skinheads one of "wonderful" things that commies had habbit to hide and not report openly in media as long as they beat right peoples like jews or gypsies. ah ah, there were no racist attacks like that under the commies (well maybe in Poland). Jews had a decent living and gypsies were always gypsies.

[Futile Talisman]

My 0.02

I am black on my father's side. Been to Moscow a few times, was treated fine and the people were great. Couple of times I heard "chornye" or some type of comment of like that, but shyte, that can happen anywhere.

Overall, I personally never experienced hostility or felt unsafe. To the contrary, I count my time in Russia as some of the best times I have had while abroad.

This is just my personal experience and take it for what it is worth.
Me, I cannot wait to get back there. Every Russian I came into contact with on a social level was good to go and I am eager to see them again.

FT

[Futile Talisman]

Racism, xenophobia and scapegoating are more a product of a broken economy and hard times than "wonderful presents" from the west.

When times are bad people want easy identifiable victims.

Well said dude.............. History has proved this many a time.

FT

[Dzich]

ah ah, there were no racist attacks like that under the commies (well maybe in Poland). Jews had a decent living and gypsies were always gypsies.
Improve your education. Jews under commies weren`t allowed to study in prestige universities and take important positions. Common people hated them. So many of them had immigrated after the cold war ended.

[Kilgor]

ah ah, there were no racist attacks like that under the commies (well maybe in Poland). Jews had a decent living and gypsies were always gypsies.

Maybe you should read about the doctors plot,... jews arrested , subject to the standard soviet torture beating until confession and execution or to the gulag.

They didnt need racist attacks when state policy and the NKVD did it so well.

[Mr.K]

Improve your education. Jews under commies weren`t allowed to study in prestige universities and take important positions. Common people hated them. So many of them had immigrated after the cold war ended.
What are you talking about look at all the "russian" jewish scientists! Look at the writers and the journalists. It was under the Tsar when being a jew mean't no access to education or living in a city.
Prestige universities, yeah well, guess what, unless your daddy was bigshot like a KGB colonel you could forget MGU even if your name is Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov.
Key positions? Yeah it's a true shame that we didnt have a jewish head of the state, ring the "antisemitism" alarm. I don't recall of jews sweeping the streets or being movers or doing humiliating hard work. They all had degrees and held decent white colar jobs. There were also some that held jobs like shoemakers so they could do things "on the $ide".
Common people might have said something like : "fvckin' jew". And that's about it, no one pushed them on the subway tracks or burned their houses before lighting a cross.
Under the commies you didn't have nationalist propaganda being sold at the subway stations.
Yep they fled to the west and now rot in garbage neighborhoods in social housing and on welfare, cold war is over and the dissidents are no longer needed. Among those who went to Israel a significant number came back.

[Scyth]

How about chechen terrorists kidnapping russian men, women, children, and elderly persons? I think your in the wrong place. This is not the Black Panther forum.

This is the most stupid and clueless post I've ever read in any forum in any time in any life.

[Mr.K]

Maybe you should read about the doctors plot,... jews arrested , subject to the standard soviet torture beating until confession and execution or to the gulag.

They didnt need racist attacks when state policy and the NKVD did it so well.

Yes in 70 years there was the doctors plot, that was in 1953 when Stalin was completly overhelmed by paranoia. Standard soviet torture ( you forgot to add "evil") was sleep deprivation not beating. That was the only incident when the jews were directly targeted by the state. Meanwhile "free world" was strugging to keep his colonies by force. According to Solzynitsin ( you should like him) NKVD was full of jews. A lot of jews contributed to the 1917 revolution,and got important positions in the society. Because the revolution gave them better life contions.
Do your relatives keep you telling these stories? They don't have to, they won't be deported.

[Scyth]

One more thing from me. I'm a Turk and I have slightly slanted eyes. This said I can blend in almost anywhere in Europe except maybe in a Norwegian fishing village in the Arctic or sthg. I've never been to Russia but met a lot of Russians either here or abroad. I also had many Serbian friends. I want to second FT on the fact that every single Russian and Serbian male or female I came across were great and fun people. Very open minded and very cultured. Reading some posts here, I sometimes wonder seriously where the hell some of the forum members come from.

[Asheren]

ah ah, there were no racist attacks like that under the commies (well maybe in Poland). Jews had a decent living and gypsies were always gypsies.

Some of mp neters are predictable as usual. Ofcourse only those evil Poles opressed jews in communist states. SU was a osasis of peace, wellfare and tolerance. rofl

[Mr.K]

Some of mp neters are predictable as usual. Ofcourse only those evil Poles opressed jews in communist states. SU was a osasis of peace, wellfare and tolerance. rofl
Never said anything like that, as for Poles opressing the Jews you know the subject better than I do. ;)

[Dzich]

What are you talking about look at all the "russian" jewish scientists! Look at the writers and the journalists. .



Prestige universities, yeah well, guess what, unless your daddy was bigshot like a KGB colonel you could forget MGU even if your name is Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov..

There was a private agreement that MSU, BSU etc. had 1-3% of jew students. Jews were very smart and there could be 95% of jews in the universities. But they werent welcome. Those who managed to enter were genius, no wonder they all had become famous scientists.


Under the commies you didn't have nationalist propaganda being sold at the subway stations.
We did have a lot of people that couldn`t stand other nations.


Yep they fled to the west and now rot in garbage neighborhoods in social housing and on welfare, cold war is over and the dissidents are no longer needed. Among those who went to Israel a significant number came back.
Came back to Russia??? The feodal country of criminals, nazi, sexists, low salaries and indifferent government? Are you sure?

[Mr.K]

Now,not 95% of Jews are smart.
Who is "we", there is plenty of people that can't stand other nations. And a lot of people here can't stand the other nations too. As for belarussians they are a peaceful and calm people, thats what i've been told. As for the last comment yest I am sure,some people prefer to have a normal job (even with a low salary) and have their friends and family by their side,have their culture and being a part of a society that they belong to,rather than sitting on welfare and deleivering pizza or passing flyers,living with a neigborhood full of scum,and being a forigner that has nothing to offer to his kids. You should really stop watching RTVI.

[Dzich]

Now,not 95% of Jews are smart.
Who is "we", there is plenty of people that can't stand other nations.
"We" were soviet people. Mainly russians. There was a poem (chastushka):
Good thing that Gagarin neither kazak (ukrain) nor uzbek, neither chechen nor tatar, but a soviet man (russian). (pardon my English)



You should really stop watching RTVI.
I personally don`t have a TV set, but sometimes I watch it at my bf`s. Never heard about RTVI.

The thing is that Russia becomes a fascist country.

[Bobcharge]

I post this link purely for educational purposes. If you want to see some videos of the one of the gangs responsible for these attacks go to http://www.format18.org It's all in Russian but easy to navigate. Some of them are spoof videos and others show groups of four or five people jumping loan individuals from behind.

Dalamara, I wouldn't waste your time trying to reason with loud, ignorant Americans, and fascist apologists - you can only educate those willing to learn. Some people just prefer being under educated and over opinionated.

[Dzich]

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

I`m not sure if the 12-th is connected with Russia. But the rest ones definately are.

[Kilgor]

Yes in 70 years there was the doctors plot, that was in 1953 when Stalin was completly overhelmed by paranoia. Standard soviet torture ( you forgot to add "evil") was sleep deprivation not beating. That was the only incident when the jews were directly targeted by the state. Meanwhile "free world" was strugging to keep his colonies by force. According to Solzynitsin ( you should like him) NKVD was full of jews. A lot of jews contributed to the 1917 revolution,and got important positions in the society. Because the revolution gave them better life contions.
Do your relatives keep you telling these stories? They don't have to, they won't be deported.

Stories ? These are facts and unpleasant for the soviet appologists here.

Even after stalin died... it continued

As Israel was emerging as a close Western ally, the specter of Zionism raised fears of internal dissent and opposition. During the later parts of the Cold War Soviet Jews were persecuted as possible traitors, Western sympathisers, or a security liability. The Communist leadership closed down various Jewish organizations and declared Zionism an ideological enemy. The only exception were a few token synagogues. These synagogues were then placed under police surveillance, both openly and through the use of informers.

As a result of the persecution, both state-sponsored and unofficial anti-Semitism became deeply ingrained in the society and remained a fact for years: ordinary Soviet Jews often suffered hardships, epitomized by often not being allowed to enlist in universities or hired to work in certain professions. Many were barred from participation in the government, and had to bear being openly humiliated. Soviet media usually avoided using the word "Jew," and many felt compelled to hide their identities by changing their names.

The word "Jew" was also avoided in the media when criticising undertakings by Israel, which the Soviets often accused of racism, chauvinism etc. Instead of Jew, the word Israeli was used almost exclusively, so as to paint its harsh criticism not as anti-Semitism but anti-Zionism. More controversially, the Soviet media, when depicting political events, sometimes used the term 'fascism' to characterise Israeli nationalism (e.g calling Jabotinsky a 'fascist', and claiming 'new fascist organisations were emerging in Israel in 1970s' etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Russia_and_Soviet_Union

[sir-chimp]

Perhaps Russia, however has more pressing problems to deal with first however... when was the last time a western government was told how to form internal policy by an international non government organisation?



that would be every day...........

poor poor victim russia :roll:

[Pvt.Anderson]

Funny when the once called "Untermenschen" (by the nazis of course ) act the "Übermensch" role ... ( surely it doesn't mean they're nazis just because they're racists , but it's pretty damn close , and there ARE even ****loads of nazis in russia ... )

A sad reality that is yes ... of course racism is a problem everywhere , it's also getting bigger in Europe , which also got to do with the islamic imigrants , which even begin to demand rights for their own in some regions ( think that happened in Sweden or Norway ) and places like the banlieus in France ...

[Jani.R]

Should i go beat some russian immigrants who live here, as nobody really wants them here and they do more crimes than any other immigrant group? :|:cantbeli:

Any russians (who probably live in USA as an immigrant.) that defends actions of these retards should get flogged.

[Igor01]

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

I`m not sure if the 12-th is connected with Russia. But the rest ones definately are.

You are a fine piece of work. Clueless, prejudiced and dismissive of any constructive critisism, yet you have no problem delivering your profound insights that describe an imaginary reality even the US State Department would find farfetched.

Best of luck with your crusade buddy.

[Igor01]

Should i go beat some russian immigrants who live here, as nobody really wants them here and they do more crimes than any other immigrant group? :|:cantbeli:

Any russians (who probably live in USA as an immigrant.) that defends actions of these retards should get flogged.

Hate crimes are wrong and inexusable. They do happen in Russia just like anywhere else. The problem however is in the fact that the media has been turning isolated incidents into a massive campaign allegedly indicating Russia's slide towards fascism.

Have you not wondered why this was virtually unheard of even two years ago? Was this not happening then or was it simply that it was not "necessary" to create such hysteria?

Simple example: the Tajik girl that was killed by "skinheads" was presented as an act of irrationally absurd violence when the attackers were so blinded by their hate that they didn't even stop at brutally murdering a child. The investigation discovered that the attack was arranged by the rival drug cartel to scare the girl's father who was in the drug trafficking business, the attack however went wrong and the girl was killed. The grief-striken father instead of going to the authorities to seek justice promptly disappeared, he surfaced days later and was not cooperating with the investigators until it became clear that the "vicious skinheads" version will be mined by the authorities and he doesn't have to be fear prosecution for his drug-trafficking trade. The media was reluctant to talk about this, they prefer a bone-chilling racially-motivated chain-saw massacre.

You also won't see ANY reports of racial attacks on ethnic Russians and others in Russia's national regions, like the recent string of murders of Russians in Kalmykia, ongoing robberies, murders and rapes of ethnic Russians in the North Caucases and Southern Russia.

The explanation to all these apparent mysteries is very simple - the magic year 2008 is coming ever closer now. The Presidential elections in Russia are traditionally won against a threat, most of the time imaginary and touted by the media as the very thing that will destroy the country unless the people vote for the "right" candidate. Yeltsin won over the threat of "red plague" (twice), Putin ran against the "threat" of Chechen terrorists and then the oligarchs, whoever will be appointed the "true people's candidate" this time around desperately needs an enemy, since nobody will vote for commies, Chechnya has been "pacified" and oligarchs are singing osannah to the Kremlin in an enthusiastic unison - the only solution left is "Here be fascists".

Mark my words, the new "saviour" of Russia will run and win on an "anti-fascist" platform and a few months after his triumph the "nazi's" will all but disappear from the media. The system is simple like Pavlov's dog, yet it works just as reliably.

[Dalamara]

So it is OK to kill the ignorant (or more accurately what you perceive as ignorant) but it is not OK to kill based on race or skin colour?



Wow way to take what I said out of context. It was in response to nagant... who said:


Anyway, those students probably went to the wrong neighborhoods at the wrong time. It sucks to be naive.

Look at that statement. Nowhere does he say it was wrong of the attackers. He puts all the blame on the victim. So following his logic I wrote:


Right... where do you live? Maybe I'll come to your house and kill you because you're pretty damn ignorant. Because hey being naive justifys you being killed!


Get it now?

[Dalamara]

Sounds like you want to kill these skin heads because you are angry. Had it occured to you they might want to kill others because they are angry?
You seem to have a lot in common.
Go shave your head... Amnesty International tells you you must!!!!

Yeah I wouldn't mind beating the sh*t out of these skinheads. There's one key difference between me and them that you're missing. They are angry and attack minorities out of pure hatred, because of lies that have been fed to them. I am angry BECAUSE they are attacking minorities.

What did the minorities do to deserve beatings and death? The only thing they've done "wrong" was to be born a different race.

What have these skinheads done to deserve beatings and death? They have carried out hate crimes. They have murdered. They are not innocent.

The skinhead's anger stems from lies. My anger stems from their actions. Huge world of difference there.

By your logic there is no difference between a suicide bomber, who hates those that he carries out an attack on based on ideology, and the victims of the attack who hate the suicide bomber because of his actions.

[bigvig]

I don't even know where to start with this comment. I mean my god...
Don't.


So I guess during the 1950s and 60s all the blacks should have just moved out of America?
There's a difference with all these examples you have given me. The attacks described were on people who were FOREIGN students. They obviously weren't born there.
You'd have to be dumb to go to a country where the natives hate you.

I'm definetly not about to go to Russia anytime soon.


Where are these people getting the money to move? Where do you propose that they go? Are you going to find new jobs for them?
Go back to where they came from? Come to America/Canada/Europe as a foreign student? NOT go to Russia?

[bigvig]

What did the minorities do to deserve beatings and death? The only thing they've done "wrong" was to be born a different race.

You're right. Black on white crime is a disgrace to America.

[VISTREL]

Improve your education. Jews under commies weren`t allowed to study in prestige universities and take important positions. Common people hated them. So many of them had immigrated after the cold war ended.

I was gonna ignore this thread until I saw this comment...such BS..the more I read your posts the more I come to a conclusion that you don't live in Belarus or you're a little kid.

My school in Ukraine was composed of about 40% (well, not exactly but enough to notice their dominance) jewish teachers. That's such a bs comment you made.

[VISTREL]

Should i go beat some russian immigrants who live here, as nobody really wants them here and they do more crimes than any other immigrant group? :|:cantbeli:

I woudn't advice that cos you're the one who would get the beating :D

[Jani.R]

I woudn't advice that cos you're the one who would get the beating :D
Thats why i bring 17 other nationalists with me, like our eastern brothers.

[nagant_m44]

This is the most stupid and clueless post I've ever read in any forum in any time in any life.

Im honored:hug:

[koozya]

Came back to Russia??? The feodal country of criminals, nazi, sexists, low salaries and indifferent government? Are you sure?

Just STFU plz ignorant fool :backhand:

[CPL Trevoga]

In current political enviroment, mainly potential aquisition of English energy companies by Gazprom, this article looks like a paid propoganda piece to me.

[asch]

Originally Posted by Dzich
Came back to Russia??? The feodal country of criminals, nazi, sexists, low salaries and indifferent government? Are you sure?

that's just brilliant. you must stick with Kilgor, Ed/number/ and other xenophobic fellas here, you have shared, mm... "valuables"

and i must admit that Russia, according to some comments of MPnet members, is not a country i live in. are you sure you talk about Russia? my life here is completely different, sorry. no criminal life(well i think it must be "no more than in the western world in general"), no "feudalism" (i'm not sure that you know the meaning of this world), and about nazis - yes, they exist, but when i read about neo-nazi marches in Europe and somewhere else, then i think i live in perfectly quiet and tolerant place.

i recommend you to understand that Russia is huge and different, just to not write dumb posts.

p.s. you don't have tv? it's ok. seems like you spent alot of time in internet, there is a lot of info.

[StukaJr]

My uncle leaves in Los Angeles and travels often to Moscow and back for business. When leaving for Moscow - he is always warned of various dangers by Angelinos whom never been to Russia and visa versa - Moscovites are amazed that he lives in Los Angeles and is still alive. He just shrugs to both - I dig the irony.

Ratings/Dollar driven media - I'm a little taken back how the Information Age is becoming more and more like a Mis... a faucking boolsheat Age...

[Jani.R]

Ratings/Dollar driven media - I'm a little taken back how the Information Age is becoming more and more like a Mis... a faucking boolsheat Age...

Everything from mother Russia is corrupt misinformation? Nice mindshet you are living on.

And remind me of why would media be biased towards Russia? Jew/Polish connection?

According to Moscow Bureau for Human Rights there are over 50.000 neo-nazis operating in Russia alone. :roll:

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/05/04/racismreport.shtml
Just reading topics of "See Also" makes me wonder why the need of trying to play down the racism of certain Russians.

[asch]

According to Moscow Bureau for Human Rights there are over 50.000 neo-nazis operating in Russia alone.
wow, where they all hiding?

[CPL Trevoga]

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3731 <-This is how racist Swedes are, they go to other countries to commint hate crimes. This thread should be named Racist Sweeds are out control.


Just kidding, Swedes are really wonderful people, inernet Swedish people are childeren of Satan though. :(

[Blackbeard]

ah ah, there were no racist attacks like that under the commies (well maybe in Poland)....because under the commies all these racist attacs were kept in silent and cases closed before the investigation. In such great people and workers paradise like SU just didn´t exist such thing like is racism. It was denied on state level but acctualy common, specialy in glorius soviet army.

[asch]

everybody know well facts about SU, except people from SU themselves.

bulls'hit.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Bla-bla -bla, racism ... bla-bla-bla .. racism ... bla-bla-bla ... only whites are racists ... bla-bla -bla-bla ...

[XxDualityxX]

everybody know well facts about SU, except people from SU themselves.

bulls'hit.

"you commie"

Sorry I couldnt reisist did you guys know that in rio de janeiro there is 80 homicides a day yet no 5 page threads on it. Honestly people if you think that the world is bright and comfy like your living room your seriosuly mistaken the majority of the world is poor as sh** and has a high crime rate.

[Dalamara]

Bla-bla -bla, let's ignore the problem ... bla-bla-bla .. I'm white so I don't care... bla-bla-bla ... some white people get attacked too so it's okay... bla-bla -bla-bla ...

Fixed it for ya.

[koozya]

everybody know well facts about SU, except people from SU themselves.

bulls'hit.


100 % its so funny when people trying to teach me about my country even if they never were there. :|

[bigvig]

Fixed it for ya.

SOME white people?


Yea, only SOME black people got attacked.

Who cares right?

[XxDualityxX]

What black people in russia its cold there. I am black and the rockies are almost way too much for me.

[Kilgor]

everybody know well facts about SU, except people from SU themselves.

bulls'hit.
The russians on this board are probably below 30 years of age, and would have very faint memories of the soviet times in childhood. Then of course they left for the comfort of the west.

The facts about the soviet union are clearly written down in history after the country collapsed and much of the truth came out. Most intelligent people do not believe the bull**** about it being the land of milk and honey and socialist paradise.

[Dalamara]

SOME white people?


Yea, only SOME black people got attacked.

Who cares right?

As in disproportinate numbers get attacked.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that more whites are attacked each day than minorities?

[koozya]

As in disproportinate numbers get attacked.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that more whites are attacked each day than minorities?

OH so i guess u need to take a good walk in the let me guess for example Newark, NJ and see how poor minorites attack so violent and bad white people. :roll:

[Lt. James Anderson]

As in disproportinate numbers get attacked.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that more whites are attacked each day than minorities?

STFU! There are a lot of minority neighbourhoods that are off limits for a white person at any time of the day. Find me a white neighbourhood that non-white person has to fear for their safety AT ANY TIME OF THE DAY and I'll eat my computer!

[Dalamara]

Gah I'm not trying to argue that racism doesn't happen on both sides.

Racism is bad. Period.

I cannot and will not justify racist violence against white people simply because "they do it too". That's the attitude a lot of you a showing. Now I may be wrong in this assumption, but a lot of the replies here have been basically saying "well minorities attack us too, so no big deal". That's a wrong way to think.

[bigvig]

As in disproportinate numbers get attacked.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that more whites are attacked each day than minorities?

YES.

Look up BLACK on white crime statistics.

[bigvig]

Gah I'm not trying to argue that racism doesn't happen on both sides.

Racism is bad. Period.

I cannot and will not justify racist violence against white people simply because "they do it too". That's the attitude a lot of you a showing. Now I may be wrong in this assumption, but a lot of the replies here have been basically saying "well minorities attack us too, so no big deal". That's a wrong way to think.

You made it sound like it's some sort of Russian RACISM OMFG NAZI!11wunwun problem. It happens right here in America. But no one gives a **** when the victims are whites.

Racism isn't exclusive to white people you know?

If anything, black people are the most racist, anti-social elements in American society.

And I HAVE PERSONALLY experienced it and LIVED through it. So, don't give me that OMFGWTFBBQ YOU'RE A RACIST bullschit.

[StukaJr]

Everything from mother Russia is corrupt misinformation? Nice mindshet you are living on.

And remind me of why would media be biased towards Russia? Jew/Polish connection?

According to Moscow Bureau for Human Rights there are over 50.000 neo-nazis operating in Russia alone. :roll:

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/05/04/racismreport.shtml
Just reading topics of "See Also" makes me wonder why the need of trying to play down the racism of certain Russians.

You have figured the world out by copying and pasting articles from Associated Press - I congratulate you!

Moscow is the city with population of 10.5 million people, with 4 million visitors passing through the city on the slow day - I'm sorry that one third of a percent of the population of the city just happens to act out and be anti-social.

I live in Los Angeles - a city that is home to almost 200 thousand gang members according to similar sources. And I got my nine in my baggy pants and I will cap some muddafugging biotch on de way from ma crib to de muddafoggin Compton Biotch, because you' Wigga aaazzz disrispected ma hood and my homies! At least, that's what Associated Press would like you to believe - when you log on the web in your cozy Scandinavian Nation and all of a sudden you feel warm and fuzzy in your Socialist Paradise while the rest of the world is dying under the boots of Russian Skinhead baby eaters or Comie-Nazi Crip'n'Bloods

Grow up, kid. Living in the country with more than 8 people per square mile is bound to produce some kind of crazy numbers and Associated Press loves to create graphic stories of dangerous places for the likes of you. Ten thousand people die on the toilet every year! Twenty thousand murderous furries reside in City of Chicago alone!

Advice - travel some, see the world with your own eyes - then post your opinions. Don't post Associated Press articles in response to the people actually living in the city the articles are about!

P.S. Didn't Associated Press just re-surged that Hoax myth about a corpse in a rum barrel? Goes to show their journalism ethics :D

[Dalamara]

You made it sound like it's some sort of Russian RACISM OMFG NAZI!11wunwun problem. It happens right here in America. But no one gives a **** when the victims are whites.

Racism isn't exclusive to white people you know?

If anything, black people are the most racist, anti-social elements in American society.

And I HAVE PERSONALLY experienced it and LIVED through it. So, don't give me that OMFGWTFBBQ YOU'RE A RACIST bullschit.

Start a thread about how bad whites are being attacked by minorities and I'll support that thread as much as I do this one. This is the thread about neo-nazis attacking minorities. I denounce these neo-nazis in this thread and I'm somehow in the wrong for it?

Do I have to back up every statement I make with a disclaimer that says "I know white people get attacked every day too, and that's also bad"? Take my statements within the context of this thread damnit.

We all know racism isn't one sided. This isn't a thread about that. This is a thread about f*cking neo nazis attacking minorities in Russia. What is the relevance of bringing up attacks by blacks on whites in America? It just makes it sound like you're trying to justify these neo-nazi skinheads. Are you?

[Wiseman]

It sucks that this happens in the city that I was born in. It is supposed to be one of the intellectual cities where people still read books and not stare into the idiot box all day. Pushkin's statue is probably hanging his head right now. Nazis.... blin ahuyeli sovsem. I guess people forgot the 3 year blockade in WW2. That's ok though, because like everything else, we take everything for granted and only wake up when these guys begin to gain political power or are already in control.

[CPL Trevoga]

The russians on this board are probably below 30 years of age, and would have very faint memories of the soviet times in childhood. Then of course they left for the comfort of the west.

The facts about the soviet union are clearly written down in history after the country collapsed and much of the truth came out. Most intelligent people do not believe the bull**** about it being the land of milk and honey and socialist paradise.

Hold up buddy I have good memory, we're were taught that all people are brothers, which is not the case in the west. You're all white, brown and black and sh*t. In USSR we're all were equal and you were judged by you character first, not you race.

[Banko]

Hold up buddy I have good memory, we're were taught that all people are brothers, which is not the case in the west. You're all white, brown and black and sh*t. In USSR we're all were equal and you were judged by you character first, not you race.
The hell are you talking about? I'm Russian I only lived in the Soviet Union maybe 4 years of my life (don't remember much) then it collapsed. Though my dad did live throughout pretty much most of it. He was born in 1953, and even though he got high marks on the University entrance exams, higher then most people, the fact that he was a Jew he couldn't get in. Instead he became a grandmaster checkers player, won the USSR Championship 3 times, and is world ranked.

Now that we live in the US, Checkers players don't make much money, and he became a programmer. We are still very succesful, but if he went through University he would probably be a noble prize winner.

[Igor01]

The hell are you talking about? I'm Russian I only lived in the Soviet Union maybe 4 years of my life (don't remember much) then it collapsed. Though my dad did live throughout pretty much most of it. He was born in 1953, and even though he got high marks on the University entrance exams, higher then most people, the fact that he was a Jew he couldn't get in. Instead he became a grandmaster checkers player, won the USSR Championship 3 times, and is world ranked.

Now that we live in the US, Checkers players don't make much money, and he became a programmer. We are still very succesful, but if he went through University he would probably be a noble prize winner.

Take your sad stories to a more receptive (and less informed) audience.

My best friend in the University was a Jew, so were a good portion of other students and lots of the teachers. Hell, I was often thought of as a Jew because I was said to be bright and didn't ****ounce "R" like any blue-eyed blond Ivan could. During the entrance exams, if you wanted to dispute any marks you could address a Results Reevaluation Committee or the Rector's Office and any outright injustice would be very apparent since the criteria for marking were very well defined and accessible to anybody.

I've had Jewish friends and classmates throughout school, my dad's Army unit had Jewish officers, everybody was treated exactly the same.

Also, for your information, many Jews (and others be it Ukrainians, Kalmyks or any other ethnic groups) often had "Russian" in the Section 5 of their passports and could not be singled out from your average Soviets. All these scary fairy-tales about rampant anti-semitism in the USSR are BS, the only real complain the Jews had during the Soviet times was the inability to emigrate freely but then nobody else was free to leave either.

[Banko]

Take your sad stories to a more receptive (and less informed) audience.

My best friend in the University was a Jew, so were a good portion of other students and lots of the teachers. Hell, I was often thought of as a Jew because I was said to be bright and didn't ****ounce "R" like any blue-eyed blond Ivan could. During the entrance exams, if you wanted to dispute any marks you could address a Results Reevaluation Committee or the Rector's Office and any outright injustice would be very apparent since the criteria for marking were very well defined and accessible to anybody.

I've had Jewish friends and classmates throughout school, my dad's Army unit had Jewish officers, everybody was treated exactly the same.

Also, for your information, many Jews (and others be it Ukrainians, Kalmyks or any other ethnic groups) often had "Russian" in the Section 5 of their passports and could not be singled out from your average Soviets. All these scary fairy-tales about rampant anti-semitism in the USSR are BS, the only real complain the Jews had during the Soviet times was the inability to emigrate freely but then nobody else was free to leave either. Many Soviets maybe had Russian under it but my dad was not one of them. I don't care what you experienced, and you are just a fool for saying racism wasn't part of the Soviet Union. Also when did you try to go the university, probably not as early as my dad when anti-semitism was rampant, in the 80's it wasn't as bad.

[Kilgor]

Hold up buddy I have good memory, we're were taught that all people are brothers, which is not the case in the west. You're all white, brown and black and sh*t. In USSR we're all were equal and you were judged by you character first, not you race.

Jeeez, sounds very similar to what I learned at school. What do you think we were taught in the west ? That coloured people were subhuman ?


All these scary fairy-tales about rampant anti-semitism in the USSR are BS, the only real complain the Jews had during the Soviet times was the inability to emigrate freely but then nobody else was free to leave either

During stalin's final year there was a government campaign of antisemitism, imprisionments and executions. If he had lived for a few years longer, no doubt they would been exiled to siberia like many other minorities who the kremlin didnt like,.

[asch]

["prophet" profanations]

During stalin's final year there was a government campaign of antisemitism, imprisionments and executions. If he had lived for a few years longer, no doubt they would been exiled to siberia like many other minorities who the kremlin didnt like.
[/"prophet" profanations]

ok, aside of all this funky discussion, slightly back to topic.
we got here article about crime (very serious racial crime) in 2004. article also contains a number of 50.000 neo-nazi in modern Russia (as claimed by HRW asshоles). so, it's a big bunch of info from supposedly serious news agency.
on oter side i have my own life experience. 29 yrs of life, and i have a 1 "meeting" with nazi, 3 years ago, and i don't think that they was serious threat. all other time considering this problem, life was peaceful and calm.

so, i prefer to beleive my own experience than some article writen to make impression. and all rambling about "racist Russians" on MPnet cant' make those racists to exists here.

[Lokos]

My Russian friends, please, do yourselves a favour and ignore these impotent children. Hysterically thrashing around, they have power only to spew vitriol at anyone who will listen. Their solitary victory lies in having you give them your time of day.

They are pathetic, and as such deserve only pity.

Lokos

[Banko]

Also with regards to the actual topic, this Russian racism isn't as bad as the media makes it out to be. We go back to Russia every year or so, and you never actually see anything, it happens once in a while and once it does people blow it out of proportion.

[Angrykirill]

Skinheads are rising, some of them are good and try to be patriotic without criminality but a lot of them are just nazi fanboys who beat up caucasian vegetable dealers. But you can't outlaw them, like you can't outlaw all the "gangstaz" over in the American city centres. And it's not that bad, yes, it's still a pretty small movement.

[Wiseman]

Media could always blow things out of proportion. The problem is that these assholes exist and that makes what my grandfather fought against, in vain. These groups are also responsible for messing up graves of soldiers who fought in the great Patriotic War (WW2).

[Alan]

I am a caucasian english speaker.

Scientifically this would be known as "skinhead bait".

A year ago, I went to Russia for 2 months, and was often out late, walking around moscow, etc. From what the media says you would think 500 skinheads would beat the crap out of ne in the first hour. No, guess what, nothing happened.