US Military base’s in Germany?

[Dennis G]

Is the US military pulling its bases out of Germany? How many troops are in that country?

[Shake n Bake]

pull them out of Germany and put them in Poland

[cut]

pull them out of Germany and put them in Poland

no poland will be EU in a two months, put them further away

[Frens]

I heard that some of US soldier in Germany will move to Italy woot ... US are going to buy (maybe) a airport here in Vicenza woot

[fantassin]

Yes, and Italy may also "lose" the sixth Fleet that would go from Naples to Rota; well, that was before Spain went from "staunchest ally" to "Old Europe " anyway...


Sixth Fleet may move to Spain

John Hooper in Rome and Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Saturday February 7, 2004
The Guardian

The American navy said last night that it was considering moving its key, troubleshooting Sixth Fleet away from its base in Italy to Spain.

The move would deal a huge blow to the local economy in the area between Rome and Naples, but is likely to be greeted by Italians with as much bafflement as dismay.

They had for some time been braced for a decision by Washington to shift the fleet's base port further eastwards, perhaps to Turkey. But no one had predicted a move that would send it several hundred miles in the opposition direction.

The Spanish newspaper El Mundo reported this week that officials in Madrid had been told the Pentagon wanted to move the fleet's headquarters and supply facilities to Rota, near Cádiz, a joint US-Spanish base which is not even in the Mediterranean, the fleet's traditional area of operations.

Though Rota is further from the hot spots of the Middle East, it has the advantage of being a combined naval and air facility, offering the sort of rapid deployment capability that the US military is now looking for. Spain and the US last year signed a $450m (£243m) deal that allows the Americans to increase their use of the base.

A spokesman for US Naval Forces Europe, Lieutenant- Commander Terrence Dudley, said: "The move of the US Sixth Fleet to new facilities in Spain is only one of many initiatives currently under consideration."

The Sixth Fleet comprises some 40 ships, 175 aircraft and 21,000 military and civilian personnel, all commanded from the aircraft carrier LaSalle, which is based at Gaeta, midway between Rome and Naples.

President George Bush ordered a wide-ranging review of the deployment of US forces last November. Lt Cdr Dudley said the navy was reviewing all aspects of its presence in Europe, "seeking to maximise its capabilities whilst reducing inefficiencies to meet the challenges posed by changing defence priorities".

Gaeta had the advantage of being close to Nato command facilities in Naples and, according to Nato sources, the alliance has no plans to move its own facilities. However, it is a tourist resort with relatively steep prices, which may have played a role in prompting the Pentagon to consider a move.

Luke Harding and Ian Black add: Nato defence ministers meeting in Germany last night gave a cool reaction to a standing request from the Bush administration for them to send troops to Iraq. The alliance's new Dutch secretary general, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, said it was too soon to say whether Nato would agree to an American proposal for it to take charge of a multinational division there, now led by Poland.

Nato officials said a decision was likely by the time President Bush met other alliance leaders in Istanbul in June, just before the US hands over power to an interim Iraqi administration.

Yesterday the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, suggested Nato could also eventually take over the southern Basra sector, currently occupied by Britain.

Nato's position on Iraq is that the alliance is now likely to play a role, but only after the establishment of Iraqi sovereignty and probably after a new UN resolution. It is unlikely that countries such as France, Germany and Belgium, which strongly opposed the war, would send forces without the approval of the UN security council.

[Quon Sen Hutt]

The Soviet Union is gone, so why do we need troops in Europe?

Europe is irrelevent, we should reopen our bases in the states that border mexico and move the troops there.

If we need bases close to the middle east, then we can build bases in the middle east.

[fantassin]

so why do we need troops in Europe

You are saying something interesting. Most of Europe is actually wondering the same thing and has been doing so even more since last March.

[aeternum]

Is the US military pulling its bases out of Germany? How many troops are in that country?

Yea pls do so. Im willing to help you guys to pack your bags. Its time that we in Europe get rid of the hegemon USA.

[BlackRain]

Is the US military pulling its bases out of Germany? How many troops are in that country?

Yea pls do so. Im willing to help you guys to pack your bags. Its time that we in Europe get rid of the hegemon USA.

Yes, aeternum, it must suck to have a constant reminder that you would not be free without the assistance of the good old USA.

The USA is not perfect and we have our problems but the world would be a more dangerous place without us.

[mack pl]

pull them out of Germany and put them in PolandI guessing USA will not remove any bases to Poland.Its senseless.Poland isnt closer to A-stan or Iraq.We have only better places to training.I guess USA should have some bases at Poland ,but without soldiers,only with stuff(cars,artillery etc.).I mean,when something will be bad in future(Russia attack poland,hehe), USA could sent troops to Poland ,they will get theirs stuff and will be ready to fight ;) But,its only my opinion :| Regards :)

[aeternum]

Is the US military pulling its bases out of Germany? How many troops are in that country?

Yea pls do so. Im willing to help you guys to pack your bags. Its time that we in Europe get rid of the hegemon USA.

Yes, aeternum, it must suck to have a constant reminder that you would not be free without the assistance of the good old USA.

Well you had your 15 mins on the European show stage. Time to get the old showmaster back on. It must suck to have a constant reminder that you will loose influence on Europe day by day.

[IsdatU]

It must suck to have a constant reminder that you will loose influence on Europe day by day.

It has already been said, but it needs repeating.

Europe is becoming irrelevent.

[Whistler]

I must say its about time Europe grows a pair of balls on world issues. I'm sure the Americans are tired of babysitting for 60 years.

[aeternum]

It must suck to have a constant reminder that you will loose influence on Europe day by day.

It has already been said, but it needs repeating.

Europe is becoming irrelevent.

Irrelevent to the US, oh yes please! Maybe they will then leave us alone and we can get started to gear up with Russia and Asia, which will become the future markets.

[fantassin]

its about time Europe grows a pair of balls

Canadian size ?

[Dennis G]

so US forces are leaving Germany

[IsdatU]

Irrelevent to the US, oh yes please! Maybe they will then leave us alone and we can get started to gear up with Russia and Asia, which will become the future markets.

You guys are a decade late on pursueing those markets.

[fantassin]

Is IsDatU the new name of SixGunSymphony ? there is an uncanny similarity with him in the train of thoughts and love for Europe.

[aeternum]

Irrelevent to the US, oh yes please! Maybe they will then leave us alone and we can get started to gear up with Russia and Asia, which will become the future markets.

You guys are a decade late on pursueing those markets.

Now tell this Volkswagen, which is no1 in China, since years! I just see 1.2 billion chinese eager to buy european products.. yea!

[Adri]

I must say its about time Europe grows a pair of balls on world issues. I'm sure the Americans are tired of babysitting for 60 years.

it is they who wanted to babysitt......

[haze99]

Yes, Dennis G. It appears as though this will take effect this year. I am not sure why we stayed there after the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact?

But, I was not in any high level meetings to determine the future of US or Allied forces, either. (I would guess part of it had to do with the former Yugoslavia and its descent into exstiction?) Once East Gemany ceased to exist, we (US) should have left then.

No hard feelings Europa, take care!

[Kilgor]

You sure you can trust germany to be good little boys again ? ;)

[He219]

IsdatU/Quon Sen Hutt:

Forum Rule #7

Don't make multiple accounts for yourself. If it's discovered (it's not difficult) that you have multiple accounts, all of them will be deactivated and most likely your ip subnet banned.

[FallenAngel]

You sure you can trust germany to be good little boys again ? ;)

rofl

I am sorry, but as far as military matters are concerned, Europe *IS* becoming irrelevant. It's highly unlikely there will be another inter-euro war. Wars of the future will be based on relgiion/ culture- not geological location. While we have European Allies (nods towards Poland and England in particular), their troops will only be deployed with US troops to the mid-east/ asia/ africa. In fact.....besides the Balkins, I don't see why ANY troops would be stationed in Europe- US or otherwise.

[Kilgor]

btw.. did they pay up all the war debt ?

[TALOS]

OMG, it's like listening to kids in a kindergarten playground. For the Europeans, you wanted the states there to begin with and now you dont feel you need them, thats great, but dont pretend like you never asked(begged) them to get involved in Europe.
For the US, you too will feel the loss when you pull out at first, not economically per se as the markets will still be there, but the power vacuum will be difficult.
IMHO the states needed to pull its troops since the end of the cold war. All future conflicts will hopefully be economic ones :roll: we hope right?
What it boils down to is the EU needs the American markets and the US needs the European markets, there will still be trade, BUT, if the EU needs US help and its not in the US interests to do it, dont be askin for it, that would just be too hypocritical.

[YankeeDeVallecas]

I have to agree that US troops in Western Europe have probably run its usefullness (except for joint training every once in awhile). I hate to say it because I'd like to be stationed in West Europe again but oh well. Romania for one would be ok...a lot closer to the Middle East. Some bases, like Rota, will probably always be useful.

I think everybody needs a reality pill. Yes, we helped Europe out a couple times in the last century, but it wasn't exactly a unselfesh act. And no, no one should expect Europe to be lap dogs for us because of it.


Maybe they will then leave us alone and we can get started to gear up with Russia and Asia, which will become the future markets.

Leave you alone? I wonder who the scapegoats for all these European issues will be when the US is no longer such a large pain in the ass. I mean I know Europe has a long tradition of solving problems between European nations in civilized ways and everything.... :roll:

I for one believe that, just like France and Germany and others, the US should quit bull****ting and do only things that are in only its best interest. If it doesn't matter to us, screw it. Then Europe and the rest of the world can show us how to really run things.....

And before you say the US already only does things that are only in its best intrest take a second and think about it. And no I don't mean Iraq or Afghanistan. Geez...who sends us relief and aid and money when we have a natural disaster?

[wholagun]

US does not plan large bases in Poland, I don't know how many times I have said that already on this forum.. The plan is to build services depo and logistics bases and such not to house 100 000 troops no. They will be small bases and air field or two. There were will be some troops but not the size as is in Germany, no.

US wants to train in Poland more because of our less restrictive laws on noise and the biggest polygons in Europe. US tanks and such are suppose to use the facilities more often. Also, as was already mentioned by one of the other Poles we have an entire city dating back to WW2 its a huge place much bigger then anything in the US, this is good to train for close courter combat.

Also there has not been any decision on the bases thus far, but the general attitude is that they will put one or two logistical bases in Poland and maybe one in Romania and somewhere else.

[Midav]

Was a military brat for much of my life and enjoyed living overseas for most of that time.

However, I agree and also believe it's time to bring US forces back home.

The cold war is over.

There is no NATO-Warsaw Pact confrontation.

No need to keep the soldiers over there, save for possibly a few in Brussels at the NATO HQ.

Europe can defend itself, as can N. America from any perceived threat.

On the other hand, the area that I wish to see lot's more togetherness in, is hunting down terrorists.

Task force 121 is a good start of multinational cooperation.

Perhaps seeing more spec ops and intel units working together would be a wise idea.

[aeternum]

You sure you can trust germany to be good little boys again ? ;)

rofl

I am sorry, but as far as military matters are concerned, Europe *IS* becoming irrelevant.

How that? If you look what the EU combined would have of an military power you wouldnt say that.

Land forces:
2000+ moderne tanks
600.000+ soldiers
400+ moderne helicopters

Air force:
1000+ moderen jets
200+ modern cargo planes

Navy:
6 carriers
15+LPD/LPH
60+moderne fregattes/destroyers
25+modrne SSN/SSK

For me it looks quite sufficient. And if we start to cooperate more and streamline our effords on an european level we have still resources to get even more stuff.

[aeternum]

I dont have a problem with cooperation between the EU and the USA, of course not. But cooperation is the key not domination as right now. With the US still commanding the NATO forces in Europe, they do in fact dominate the forces on a doctrine and strategical level and this is not acceptable.

[wholagun]

You sure you can trust germany to be good little boys again ? ;)

rofl

I am sorry, but as far as military matters are concerned, Europe *IS* becoming irrelevant.

How that? If you look what the EU combined would have of an military power you wouldnt say that.

Land forces:
2000+ moderne tanks
600.000+ soldiers
400+ moderne helicopters

Air force:
1000+ moderen jets
200+ modern cargo planes

Navy:
6 carriers
15+LPD/LPH
60+moderne fregattes/destroyers
25+modrne SSN/SSK

For me it looks quite sufficient. And if we start to cooperate more and streamline our effords on an european level we have still resources to get even more stuff.



does that include the 10 new members as well?

[Groove]

http://home.wtal.de/groove/flamewar.gif

A L A R M !

[cut]

You sure you can trust germany to be good little boys again ? ;)

rofl

I am sorry, but as far as military matters are concerned, Europe *IS* becoming irrelevant.

How that? If you look what the EU combined would have of an military power you wouldnt say that.

Land forces:
2000+ moderne tanks
600.000+ soldiers
400+ moderne helicopters

Air force:
1000+ moderen jets
200+ modern cargo planes

Navy:
6 carriers
15+LPD/LPH
60+moderne fregattes/destroyers
25+modrne SSN/SSK

For me it looks quite sufficient. And if we start to cooperate more and streamline our effords on an european level we have still resources to get even more stuff.



does that include the 10 new members as well?

doubt it there'll be more than 600,000 men with the ten new countries.

[aeternum]

600.000 soldiers for the army alone, not including air force and navy.

[b00n]

The US Guys at the NATO Airbase 20miles from here were pretty friendly p-)

[Shadow]

but the world would be a more dangerous place without us.
*cough**cough**cough**cough**cough*

[hedgehog]

What's up with constant US vs Europe ****? Of all the people that should be picking fights with one another this should be the last ones.

I am a big fan of North AMerica and Europe because I have lived in both. Their values are the same and the only difference that I have seen from a cultural standpoint is that
Europe:
1) They smoke a hell of a lot more
2) not as materialistic as N.A.
3) like to talk about politics
4) lot of diesel powered cars that can pass my bimmer

N.A.
1) Great coffee places where you don't have to dish out 4 euros for a latte
2) Bigger/more powerful cars
3) greater variety of fast food joints
4) bars close way too early

So, people if we can look past these minor differences (and the language thing) we should have no problem gettig along... pick a fight with those people that blow people up around the world

anyway...Happy ST. Pats Day everyone... I'm off to drink some green beer

[martinexsquaddie]

yes but at least european cars can go round corners :backhand: