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View Full Version : (AU)Police gun mishaps: it's the ammo



Geezah
05-08-2006, 11:59 AM
FAULTY ammunition manufactured by the Police Department has been identified as a major factor contributing to injuries suffered by officers using their Smith & Wesson handguns.

Police armourers have discovered the continual reloading of spent casings from .357-calibre ammunition used in training is distorting them.

Distortion of some reloaded bullets has slightly changed their precise specifications, resulting in small shards of metal shearing off the shells when the revolver is fired.

The metal has been ejected at high speed from gaps in the gun body, hitting the user in the hand or face, causing minor injuries.

More than two dozen police officers have been injured by the metal shards over the past three years.

As a direct result of the discovery, Police Commissioner Mal Hyde has ordered that only factory ammunition will now be used in all handguns.

Assistant Commissioner Graeme Barton said it was believed the reloaded shells, coupled with the fact a large proportion of SAPOL's 2725 Smith & Wesson handguns were worn and had been poorly serviced, was responsible for the "spatter" problem.

"We have purchased 1450 new Smith & Wessons since June 2004 and another 200 will arrive by the end of this month to replace old and worn weapons," he said.

"This, coupled with the use of only new ammunition, should hopefully see the incidence of shell spatter reduced considerably.

"Where a problem has been identified as part of our lengthy investigation into this issue, we have acted fairly swiftly to eliminate it and a number of safety measures, such as protective screens, have been introduced."

Police Association of SA president Peter Alexander was pleased the problem with the handguns had finally been identified and rectified.

"The association has had ongoing concerns about this issue because of the injuries caused to officers using the guns during training," he said.

"We are pleased one of the major causes of the problem has been identified, even though it has taken several years to do so.

"We have been given an assurance there will be no more reloading of spent shells. All ammunition used during training will be brand new."

Police had been reloading between 350,000 and 400,000 training rounds annually. The reloaded ammunition has been used only in training, with new ammunition used in operational situations. As a result of the decision not to use reloads, police will spend several hundred thousand dollars a year on new ammunition – slightly more than the cost of reloading spent shells.

The decision has taken effect immediately, with the last 6000 rounds of reloaded ammunition recalled from northern country police stations last week.

Mr Barton said the problem with the reloaded bullets was finally identified after a trial earlier this year in which only new ammunition was used at two sites during training.

"We found at those two sites there were no incidents of spatter, so it focused our attention more closely on the reloads," he said.

SA and Victoria are the only police forces in Australia that still have the Smith & Wesson revolver as their standard-issue handgun.

The remainder use Glock semi-automatic pistols. In SA, only STAR Group officers are issued with Glock pistols.

"Currently, we consider the Smith & Wesson revolver the most suitable for SAPOL officers," Mr Barton said. "However, we are continually examining all types of firearms to determine if there is a more superior and safer handgun."


Link (http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,19047426%255E2682,00.html)

I'm surprised they would have even considered using reloads for handguns, as it doesn't seem liek they saved a great deal by doing it.

Hollis
05-08-2006, 02:49 PM
Link (http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,19047426%255E2682,00.html)

I'm surprised they would have even considered using reloads for handguns, as it doesn't seem liek they saved a great deal by doing it.

Not necessary reload, Improper reloads along with poor maintenance. Sort of save a little, Spend a lot...

Brass can only be reloaded a few times, especially with magnum loads.

Geezah
05-08-2006, 02:51 PM
Not necessary reload, Improper reloads along with poor maintenance. Sort of save a little, Spend a lot...

Brass can only be reloaded a few times, especially with magnum loads.

Yeah, but reloading to me is someone that wants to shoot on a budget or they're looking for match grade loads.

StukaJr
05-08-2006, 04:04 PM
To go further - not every brass is re-loadable either. While researching into reloading, I came across many cases where certain manufacturer's brass was advised from reloading as doing so would cause warping of the casing to the point of fractures and holes. It's re-loader's responsibility to make sure that brass is good, re-loaded a safe number of times, inspect ejected brass and finally to make sure that it's properly re-loaded - especially if it's done for someone else! If casings keep on blowing up - it's a good sign to stop doing what you are doing and retrace the steps.

One of my worst shooting experiences actually involved a .357 Magnum S&W revolver that saw a little too much wear and nearely not enough TLC for its age. Sticking Cylinder, Double Action didn't work half of the time - I'd never trust my life to a firearm that was worn to the point of not functioning 100% to the manufacturer's specs.

With that said, that brings me to the other rant - why when a woman goes to the range and any kind of problem arises, it's every guy's in the lane next to ours chance to be an arsehole? Okay, so my back is turned and the aforementioned rented revolver's cylinder takes a malet force to open - it's not an invitation for a 250 lbs gorilla to reach over my gf's back, grab at the gun, push her out of the lane with the typical "This is how you do it, missy" and then embarass himself for 2 minutes trying to pry the cylinder open yet won't give back the revolver. Any time my back is turned - someone is giving unsolicited directions and she is doing just fine for 2-3 trips to the range. Just had to vent - it's been bottled up and driving me bonkers! What idiot goes for someone's firearm without being invited to! :/

Flagg
05-08-2006, 04:35 PM
To go further - not every brass is re-loadable either. While researching into reloading, I came across many cases where certain manufacturer's brass was advised from reloading as doing so would cause warping of the casing to the point of fractures and holes. It's re-loader's responsibility to make sure that brass is good, re-loaded a safe number of times, inspect ejected brass and finally to make sure that it's properly re-loaded - especially if it's done for someone else! If casings keep on blowing up - it's a good sign to stop doing what you are doing and retrace the steps.

One of my worst shooting experiences actually involved a .357 Magnum S&W revolver that saw a little too much wear and nearely not enough TLC for its age. Sticking Cylinder, Double Action didn't work half of the time - I'd never trust my life to a firearm that was worn to the point of not functioning 100% to the manufacturer's specs.

With that said, that brings me to the other rant - why when a woman goes to the range and any kind of problem arises, it's every guy's in the lane next to ours chance to be an arsehole? Okay, so my back is turned and the aforementioned rented revolver's cylinder takes a malet force to open - it's not an invitation for a 250 lbs gorilla to reach over my gf's back, grab at the gun, push her out of the lane with the typical "This is how you do it, missy" and then embarass himself for 2 minutes trying to pry the cylinder open yet won't give back the revolver. Any time my back is turned - someone is giving unsolicited directions and she is doing just fine for 2-3 trips to the range. Just had to vent - it's been bottled up and driving me bonkers! What idiot goes for someone's firearm without being invited to! :/

I reckon it's the same thing that make many women inherently easier, and men inherently harder, to teach how to shoot properly(at least in my experience), testosterone and ego..two things many women fortunately lack.

Besides anything that shoots, it also applies to anything with wheels, electricity, or the requirement for directions. ;)

MEGR
05-08-2006, 08:27 PM
There was a fairly bad reload accident at our indoor range. Somebody was using some faulty reloads in there Taurus .454. Well, needless to say, the thing blew up leaving a nice hole in one of the steel plates above the shooter. I'm not sure what happened to the guy though.

gtronin
05-09-2006, 05:35 AM
damnit, I was thinking about learning how to reload and buying a press, now I am starting to have doubts... damnit... chrapp...

BiZ
05-09-2006, 07:05 AM
All Police Forces in Aus use reloads for the range (qualification and training shoots).
Ie reloads are used on the range to plink away at paper targets.
Simple reason is to save $$$.

Also keeps armoury staff busy. ;)

The article fails to note that while SAPols and VicPol still issue the S&W, Vicpols are only .38's as opposed to SAPols .357's...

Not all tactical units use Glocks either...

Hollis
05-09-2006, 01:54 PM
Geezah, for me reloads, given proper understanding etc, will produce the most accurate loads for any firearm.

I agree with you sound likes they decided to save but in the wrong fashion.

on Case, Yes, some cannot be reloaded, example CCI aluminum cases.

I have not done it, But someone mentioned they reloaded steel boxer primed case. I am not that cheap..

Hollis
05-09-2006, 01:57 PM
damnit, I was thinking about learning how to reload and buying a press, now I am starting to have doubts... damnit... chrapp...

On professional soldiers there is a good thread in the ammo section on reloading. I have been doing it for over 35 years...... Depends on what you want. It can add a greater choice in bullet selection, loads and allow you to shoot stuff you can not buy ammo for, like 256 Win mag, 6.5 sauer, etc