SBS ambushed in Iraq.

[Gordon]

A few weeks ago I came across an article in the paper that told the story of a bunch of about 80 SBS soldiers being ambushed in Iraq by the Republican Guard while they were in an LUP awaiting resupply, it was also reported briefly on the news. Apparently the Republican Guard sent them running and they lost a load of equipment, such as Land Rovers and the like, also one of the SBS officers and an SAS officer on detachment were booted out of their respective regiments because they screwed up so bad.

I was wondering if anyone else had heard about this and what happened. As far as I know it was only briefly reported and I haven't heard anything about it since, I can't find anything about it anywhere on the internet either. Any ideas?

[Chris1]

source?
because all the MoD have said is there was an extraction in Northern Iraq and two british men were handed over by Syria.
this was weeks ago.
One Land Rover was displayed by the Iraqi's.
The media have 'padded out' the story but thats the first I've heard it padded out that much.
Needless to say I think you should stop reading that paper :)

[Gordon]

For real Chris. I knew that the story had been padded out, the paper it was from (Daily Mail) has a reputation for doing that kind of thing. I didn't know what the official line was either, so thanks for that but mainly I was just wondering if anyone had any more info.

Blatantly stories like this get extremely padded out but sometimes there's some basis to it and I heard from another source, sorry I can't remember what as it was a while back, that 2 of the officers present were under investigation for their actions.

[cut]

this one (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-662899,00.html) seems more likely, especially since a for foreign office minister to syria and if there were 80 in one place surely the iraqis would have more than one landrover to parade on tv.

[Gringo]

When I first heard this story, they said it was SAS. Then they changed it to SBS. They did the same with the Qala-i-Janghi fortress, they said it was SAS, then they said it was SBS.

[96B]

80 men sounds like a hell of a lot. If its true, why would so many be in one big group? I thought SAS/SBS operated in very small numbers?

[cut]

whatever is true, 80 sbs commandos in one place is made up.

[Gringo]

Come to think of it, 80 SBS could be possible. If this was a major attack on an iraqi position, then they might ha wanted to use as many men that were available.

[Royal]

80 men would mean a 2 Squadron plus raid - unlikely unless it was a major target (such as H3). There has been no talk of RTU's in the Corps (although it happened afer Gulf War I).

Daily Mail talking b******S as usual.

[Gordon]

Truly, daily mail's always full of it. I thought the whole thing about having 80 odd commandos in one place seemed a bit wide of the mark.

[Sabre]

If you read Peter Ratcliffe's book 'Eye of the Storm' (ex RSM of 22 SAS during the Gulf War), he mentions a large resupply in the Waddi Tubal where virtually the whole regiment was present (less G Sqn who were on CRW, half of B Sqn on CRW in the Gulf and the B20 patrol, and the CO/HQ of course!).

It was unprecedented then and only happened due to bad weather and poor moon state meaning the usual Helo resups weren't available. Whether a similar event happened here or not is unknown.

As for officers in trouble, Maj. Ratcliffe (he was commissioned in the '90's) was only in the AO because the OC of the A10 patrol (I think he was an RM officer) was very hesitant in command and spent many days driving up and down the sand berm on the Saudi border, not even entering Iraq. I think he got very seriously reprimanded for that, 'career over' type of thing.

It's a bit of a danger with officers as, despite having to endure selection, they only serve for around three years (maybe more, I don't know cos I'm not in the SAS!). Most of that time would be spent gaining experience under the command of SNCO's. The idea being that after a time with the regiment they RTU and share the skills, thus boosting the standards of the whole army.

He also mentioned some of the men as being less than enthusiastic about the idea of combat. Not what you want in the SAS.

So it just goes to show that nobody's perfect, and you can't tell how someone is going to react in combat til he's there.

As for losing kit, it's not too unlikely if your bumped during resupply. In the book, a B Sqn Land Rover patrol strayed too close to an Iraqi position (inside it, in fact) and was engaged. The crew reversed at full speed into a ditch and got stuck. The SSgt in command was wounded and was carried back by the other two taking turns, keeping up fire and manoeuver all the time. After 100-200m, they couldn't carry him any more and he told them to leave, fending off the Iraqis although seriously wounded. Turns out that he was picked up by friendlies later and made a full recovery. Upshot is, they lost a Landie and all the kit therein (nearly lost a man too) from being bumped.

[Royal]

Sabre - no probs with your comments re: Ratcliffe and GWI. Although as I said aready a RM Major was RTU'd in GWI, it hasn't happened this time as quoted in the Mail.

Also this wasn't an overland resupp as happened in '91. One LandRover was lost in this Op. Do you really think Daf's or UniMogs would have made it out in a fire-fight?

UK officers generally do 2-3 year tours in SF. The first as a troop commander, then (on invitation) returning to SF staff jobs or Sqn 2i/c or similar non direct command roles. Then coming back to command a squadron, and so on to unit CO and DSF (a one star job).

In between they return to normal unit postings, career courses or staff jobs.

Careers are different for LE's (commisioned Warrant Officers) who generaly stay SF in training or QM roles.

[Sabre]

Cheers, wasn't too sure on the officers' side. Thanks for clearing that up.

Fair point about the Unimogs. They would have been the last thing anyone would have wanted to bug out on. Moving slightly faster than a fireworks shop, and a little more explosive I would imagine.