Advice for someone who wants to go to West Point

[MVSpartan117]

Hi all,

Over the past months I have been thinking a lot about college, mostly becuase my school is craming it down our throats. I'd really like to attend West Point and I'm aware of at least one person on the board who goes there. I keep a pretty steady GPA of about 3.6-3.7, I'm not involved in any school sports, but I'm in two school clubs. I take all "Honors" classes. I'm in 10th grade.

So what I wanted to know is what you guys recommend for me to do to increase my chances of attending (I am aware it has been rated as the hardest college to get in in America p-) )

Thanks guys,
MVS

P.S.: And just like every 16 year old, I dream of one day being SF, do you think my chances of becoming SF would be increased or decreased by attending WP?

[USMarine3521]

mustang your way into becoming an officer instead :D

i.e. prior enlisted then officer

and I believe it would be a lot harder to get into SF as an officer as their arent as many SF slots available vs. enlisted.

USMA_scuba or NcDuece can probably help you better

[NcDeuce]

West Point will prepare you to do just about anything.

I wanted to go to WP early on but opted to attend a normal, civilian university. ;) My best friend, all he wanted to do, was attend WP like his father had. He made it.

He probably had a GPA in the 3.8 range, took all the honors and advanced classes, played football, basketball, soccer, and cross country. Of course, you know about the Vice President's and State official's letter of recommendation that is required.

You need to take the DODMERB.

Student - Athlete - Leader

SF contains a wide variety of officers. I've met a couple who were enlisted and took ROTC later on. I've met one who was in the NG while in school. I'm sure a degree from WP will not ensure initiation into a unit such as SF.

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/8633/MK19.jpg
He's doing his thing

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/5892/me2.JPG
I'm doing mine

[MetalBoy]

A friend in high school was a slacker but he somehow got into West Point, can't say how. He took mostly honors classes, did reasonably well, can't say what his GPA was. Let's see, he was also on the wrestling team. I was pretty surprised when he got accepted in actually. Now all he ever does is bitch about how he should have gone to a regular university, but don't take that as a discouragment.

[MVSpartan117]

Whats DODMERB?

Sounds like I'm not going to get into WP unless I do some sports. It's that I'm not athletic, I just really don't like sports 90% of the time. I wish paintball counted, more practical military application(I play PB a lot) ;)

Yeah I know about the recommendation letters, seems like I have some work to do.

Thanks guys

[UkrainianAmerican]

Whats DODMERB?

Sounds like I'm not going to get into WP unless I do some sports. It's that I'm not athletic, I just really don't like sports 90% of the time. I wish paintball counted, more practical military application(I play PB a lot) ;)

Yeah I know about the recommendation letters, seems like I have some work to do.

Thanks guys
As brutally boring as it may sound, I suggest you teke track (cross-contry) it will give you credits, and improve your heart rate, and in fact your whole body will be more efficient in terms of physical activity. After you can run ten miles at a decent pace, a lot of doors open up for you.

[NcDeuce]

Yeah, lots of err...poop...

DODMERB = Department of Defense Medical Review Board
They just want to know if you're allergic to stuff, if you have asthma, that sorta junk. Medical waivers are VERY VERY HARD to get these days, by the way.

You will also have to take a Physical Aptitude Exam
(Easy as hell if you are in decent shape)

http://www.usma.army.mil/admissions/overview.asp

[flickme]

Do as much extra corricular activities as you can. They look for outgoing people. People who would make good leaders. You want as much extra stuff on your resume as possible such as volunteer hours and out of school clubs. Also allot of references make a big difference.

[MVSpartan117]

Thanks NcDeuce!

[MVSpartan117]

Do as much extra corricular activities as you can. They look for outgoing people. People who would make good leaders. You want as much extra stuff on your resume as possible. Also allot of references make a big difference.

Shut up Flickme! ;)

You and me are in the same boats here! (Me and Flcik are friends, both trying to get in WP)

I refuse to take advice from you!

[flickme]

Just trying to help. Im telling you what ive been told from people who have done it first hand. People who know what to expect. Not emplying that im more prepared than you are just sharin the info. Simmer Down!! :|

[MVSpartan117]

I was joking, note the " ;) "

[UkrainianAmerican]

LOL :lol:

[MVSpartan117]

Before edited you damn post did you read mine!?

Anyways..... back to West Point

[flickme]

Ya. I read it therefore i edited mine.

[Salty Dog]

here's some advice, don't go there! :P

[MVSpartan117]

here's some advice, don't go there! :P

your reasoning? :|

[flickme]

Y would you say that? It may be more strict than a regular school but its a door way to tons or career oportunities in and out of the military.

[Salty Dog]

here's some advice, don't go there! :P

your reasoning? :|

i was just kidding. i was thnking of trying to get into Norwich back in the day, which is also a military college, but then i decided to go active duty marines. p-)

[flickme]

What about going straight into the military and then later going to WP. Ive heard of people doing that.

[USMarine3521]

What about going straight into the military and then later going to WP. Ive heard of people doing that.

thats what i was saying. "mustang" your way to an officer. I've heard from people on this board that prior enlisted officers are generally more respected and make better officers??? Is this correct??

cant remember the name of the thread nor do I feel like searching for it :D

[FallenAngel]

A few points.

- Duke is the hardest university to get accepted to. USMA is the third I believe.

- First rate education, in the top 5 Universities in the US.

- Medical Fitness. A girl in my class was invited to attend the AF Academy, but they found out she had a history of childhood asthma and slammed the door in her face.

- Take AP and Honors classes as much as you can. Take the tests and get the credits. Even though I attend a public University, I did and got all 4s and 5s. Good grades are essential. If you got below a 3.5, don't even bother applying.

- Discipline record. Don't rack up those detentions, could hurt your chances. Also....don't smoke or drink- that's an easy way to f*ck yourself. No criminal convictions.

Now the following points I found out when I was your age, considering the Naval Academy.

- Sports. Do something in highschool you're good at. Anything. Being a team captain is something good to have in the + column.

- You will be REQUIRED to participate in a sport. Again, this was for the Naval Academy, but I believe it's the same for the USMA. If you don't like sports, go to a different school and go OCS when you graduate.

- Kiss a big social life goodbye. While there is much comraderie among your classmates- drill, PT, class and extra-circular activities take up most of the day. You study into the early hours of the morning only to wake up at O-Dark-Thirty to do it all over again. You will probably only get a few free hours Sat. and Sun.

- Weather. Sounds stupid, but if you're from Southern California where "winter" is two weeks of rain and temps in the 50s, it's a completely different world in upstate New York. Be sure you're "prepared" for such a change.

[flickme]

According to the Princeton Review(which is highly referred to) the USMA is the number one hardest to get into. But all that matters is its hard as hell to get into. Take a look at the different statistics.

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=1&topicID=10

Take a look at these numbers....
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/rankings.asp?listing=1023919&LTID=1

and this....especially the last 2 lines....
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/admissions.asp?listing=1023919&LTID=1

[MVSpartan117]

Thanks!

[ibstolidude]

Hi all,

Over the past months I have been thinking a lot about college, mostly becuase my school is craming it down our throats. I'd really like to attend West Point and I'm aware of at least one person on the board who goes there. I keep a pretty steady GPA of about 3.6-3.7, I'm not involved in any school sports, but I'm in two school clubs. I take all "Honors" classes. I'm in 10th grade.

So what I wanted to know is what you guys recommend for me to do to increase my chances of attending (I am aware it has been rated as the hardest college to get in in America p-) )

Thanks guys,
MVS

P.S.: And just like every 16 year old, I dream of one day being SF, do you think my chances of becoming SF would be increased or decreased by attending WP?
Go ROTC and buy a ring

[Maverick77]

I love what I want to do.

Im in highschool too and my carrer goal is a Paratrooper in the Canadian Army (see what happens from there.)

but next year im in 7 courses and 3 of them are gym. I can do that because I don't want to go to university.

[FallenAngel]

According to the Princeton Review(which is highly referred to) the USMA is the number one hardest to get into. But all that matters is its hard as hell to get into. Take a look at the different statistics.

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?categoryID=1&topicID=10

Take a look at these numbers....
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/rankings.asp?listing=1023919<ID=1

and this....especially the last 2 lines....
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/admissions.asp?listing=1023919<ID=1

i'll be damned. I didn't read the princeton review...I read something else.


love what I want to do.

Im in highschool too and my carrer goal is a Paratrooper in the Canadian Army (see what happens from there.)

but next year im in 7 courses and 3 of them are gym. I can do that because I don't want to go to university.

Don't make that mistake. In all seriousness, unless you go career military, you NEED a University education to get anywhere in the world today. If you DO go career, think things through. Might as well forget about getitng married and having a family- not enough pay. And the way the Canadian Armed Forces are going...they might "downsize" you in the future. If they can go without tanks, they can go without paratroopers.

Always remember, brains before brawn.

[Maverick77]

Sgt in Cdn Army makes 50k a year

Pvt 30k (or so)

all that without danger pay all that other stuff. Money will not be an issue.

Thanks for the heads up, really.

but half my direct familiy is or was CF I know what im gettin into.

[Salty Dog]

Sgt in Cdn Army makes 50k a year

Pvt 30k (or so)

all that without danger pay all that other stuff. Money will not be an issue.

Thanks for the heads up, really.

but half my direct familiy is or was CF I know what im gettin into.

you sure about those salary figures? now i know why the canadian army gets crappy funding, because all the money is going into their pay instead of equipment!

[11F5S]

thats what i was saying. "mustang" your way to an officer. I've heard from people on this board that prior enlisted officers are generally more respected and make better officers??? Is this correct??
:D

IMO it's hog wash...good and bad officers come out of every commissioning route.

[Merik]

here's some advice, don't go there! :P

your reasoning? :|

Cause hes a JarHead! :lol:


just messing with ya Marine.

[Beowulf]

and I believe it would be a lot harder to get into SF as an officer as their arent as many SF slots available vs. enlisted.


It is generally good advice to avoid speaking about things of which you have no first hand knowledge, especially when speaking to someone who doesn't know better.

[Beowulf]

I have spoken to recent attendees of SFAS, both enlisted and officer.

The standards for officers is slightly higher, and there is some talk that there are not many officers getting selected. Although that is pure RUMINT, take it for what it's worth.

No school or training will guarantee that you are a good leader, they can only help you to become one. It ultimately rests upon you. The officer career path does not interest me; as I like low pay, and buffing floors. :D

-b

[11F5S]

Hi all,

Over the past months I have been thinking a lot about college, mostly becuase my school is craming it down our throats. I'd really like to attend West Point and I'm aware of at least one person on the board who goes there. I keep a pretty steady GPA of about 3.6-3.7, I'm not involved in any school sports, but I'm in two school clubs. I take all "Honors" classes. I'm in 10th grade.

So what I wanted to know is what you guys recommend for me to do to increase my chances of attending (I am aware it has been rated as the hardest college to get in in America p-) )

Thanks guys,
MVS

P.S.: And just like every 16 year old, I dream of one day being SF, do you think my chances of becoming SF would be increased or decreased by attending WP?

Earning a commission at Hudson High (WP) will not in itself increase or derease your chances of becoming an SF officer when compared to any other officer in the US Army.

The chances are less for an officer getting into SF vs than for an enlisted soldier. It's simple math....there are more enlisted positions in SF, however your chances are 50/50 of making it either way.

What WP will provide you is the opportunity to get an excellent education and sound military training.

If you want to be an officer......then go to WP or to another college and earn your commission through ROTC.... Don't even think about SF until after you are commissioned....Above all...Do not listen to the naysayers who advise you to enlist instead of going to college.

USMA_Scuba on this site is a Cadet at WP right now....talk with him.


Good luck

[11F5S]

here's some advice, don't go there! :P

your reasoning? :|

Cause hes a JarHead! :lol:


just messing with ya Marine.

Wrong...He's a wannabe at this point in time.

[Fioraon]

You are not going to get into West Point. By all means try and you may even have to wait a few years but I can already say you will not be going the year out of high school. my brother looks about like you GPA wise, did sports, lettered freshmen year, well over a 1000 community service hours, honors, college credits, the works but he didn't make it. He joined the reserves to better his chances after high school and still did not get into West Point. He is now going to a school down in New Mexico and will do his final three years at West Point.

[11F5S]

I love what I want to do.

Im in highschool too and my carrer goal is a Paratrooper in the Canadian Army (see what happens from there.)

but next year im in 7 courses and 3 of them are gym. I can do that because I don't want to go to university.

And when your plans of a career in the military get derailed you can hand out volley balls at the city park.

[11F5S]

I love what I want to do.

Im in highschool too and my carrer goal is a Paratrooper in the Canadian Army (see what happens from there.)

but next year im in 7 courses and 3 of them are gym. I can do that because I don't want to go to university.

And when your plans of a career in the military get derailed you can hand out volleyballs and hockey pucks at the city park.

[Maverick77]

Sgt in Cdn Army makes 50k a year

Pvt 30k (or so)

all that without danger pay all that other stuff. Money will not be an issue.

Thanks for the heads up, really.

but half my direct familiy is or was CF I know what im gettin into.

you sure about those salary figures? now i know why the canadian army gets crappy funding, because all the money is going into their pay instead of equipment!

yeah im sure

http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/canadianforces.html


and i know several Pvts and Sgts and Lts and the site aint bull****.

[flickme]

Fioraon, you dont know that we wont make it. You cant say that. Maybe your brother wasnt the kind of person they were looking for.

[Laconian]

MVS:
The admission process for USMA is divided into 2 parts: nomination & admission. In the spring of your jr. yr in HS, write your Congressman & Senators and let them know of your desire to attend a service academy. They will forward you a packet with a bunch of stuff on your bio, extracurricular activities, intentions and ask you to write an essay on why you want to go. Based on how many nominations & deals they make btwn themselves, each member of Congress gets to nominate 2 folks from their state for each of the academies (USMA, USNA, USAFA, USCGA & USMMA).

If you earn the nomination, your packet gets sent to the USMA Admissions Office where it will be reviewed. You will be sent to take a Physical Aptitude Test, a medical screening, and an interview with an Academy rep in your area. West Point looks for a "whole man" concept. In other words you don't have to be #1 in Academics, Captain of the football team, an Eagle Scout, etc., but you should be well-rounded in sports, scholastics, and extracurricular activities. They are looking for folks with some demonstrated leadership ability.

Check out the USMA website. Read Ed Ruggero's book DUTY FIRST. Find the West Point Parent's Club in your area. They have heard all the questions & can even get you to meet and talk with a cadet about the lifestyle. If you can visit the post (it is NOT a campus) that is preferred, it is one of the most historic & coolest places in the US (I'm a little prejudiced).

It is not an easy "school" to get into. It is not an easy school to stay at. My class started with around 1600 and graduated about just short of a 1000, but that was back when men were men and dinosaurs roamed the Plain. There is no guarantee of what type leader you become coming out of USMA. I've served with officers from every commissioning source and I've seen studs & duds from each of them. The ring you buy is not for you to wave at non-grads, its to remind you of your DUTY to the Nation as a professional Army officer, for the privilege of having the country pay for your education. In my opinion, that bill is never paid off.

As far as SF opportunities for officers, you won't even get to apply until after your first assignment (about 3-4 years after you earn your commission as a 1LT or 1LT (Promotable)). It can be done, but its best to focus on becoming as squared away and as STRAC an officer as you can in whatever branch you draw.

Sorry for the length of the post.

L

[flickme]

Great info. Thats gonna help alot.

[flickme]

Does anyone know how many people attending the USMA are already enrolled in the military?

[MVSpartan117]

Thanks man, your a ton of help!! :D

[NcDeuce]

Does anyone know how many people attending the USMA are already enrolled in the military?

I think cadets from the Academies must serve at least 4 or 5 years.

Same w/ ROTC except not all freshman and sophomore cadets are contracted or bound to serve their time...yet

Is that what you were asking?

[AFACadet]

I think cadets from the Academies must serve at least 4 or 5 years.

5 years



10 if you're a pilot.




Now to answer the major question:

Advice to get in:



Don't go to USAFA instead, you'll thank yourself (and me) later :D :P :lol: .



EDIT: No, that was not what he was asking. I don't know the exact number, and going by USAFAs (which are about the same), there are probably about 50-75 prior enlisted in any given class (maybe a little more or less).

[NcDeuce]

10 if you're a pilot.

Air Force does it differently then.

http://www.apsu.edu/rotc/Inf.PDF

[flickme]

What i meant was how many people have already served and are now attending the academy.

[MVSpartan117]

What i meant was how many people have already served and are now attending the academy.

You mean like going in the army first, then later attending WP?

[flickme]

ya

[flickme]

ya. thats what i meant. sorry about the double posting.

[AFACadet]

Check my post again, I already wrote it about an hour ago.

[flickme]

I see. Thanks.

[roach_motel]

I am also interested in going to USMA. I am currently in track, receive a 3.44+ GPA, am working on Eagle Scout, and have lots of leadership experience and training from being involved in my Boy Scout troop.

[THE_Dorff]

there are a few things that I think you should look into first. Also I am british and we dont have a dedicated forces university such as westpoint but an officer training school called sandhurst...

If you attend westpoint there is a possibility that you will turn into an anal retentive arse...

a good leader leads from the front and is able to relate to his gunners. If you attend a university (college) such as westpoint you will be placed in the officer mentality from the word go. This is not necessarily a good thing...

I believe that in order to be a good leader and a well rounded person you need a certain amount of life experience and a well balanced attitude... I know for a fact that some of the young officer's in the british army are spoilt daddie's boys doing their three years of service... if you go to westpoint there will be a certain amount of signposting as toyour character on entry to the service. serving in a regular ROTC unit will give you the understanding you need for entry into the armed forces yet you should still retain some fun out of the whole experience...

the best officers come from regular soldiers (enlisted men in the US) as they have the mindset and the experience to know what the f*ck they are talking about in order to get their boys home...and at the end of the day- thats what its all about.

[11F5S]

delete

[11F5S]

there are a few things that I think you should look into first. Also I am british and we dont have a dedicated forces university such as westpoint but an officer training school called sandhurst...

So when it comes to the US Army, USMA, and ROTC you are by your own admission talking out of your ass.


If you attend westpoint there is a possibility that you will turn into an anal retentive arse...

If you never attend USMA there is equally as much possibility that you will turn into an anal retentive ass.




a good leader leads from the front and is able to relate to his gunners. If you attend a university (college) such as westpoint you will be placed in the officer mentality from the word go. This is not necessarily a good thing...

So in your opinion a good officer should have an enlisted man's mentality.
Sorry but I don't agree.

The mission of the USMA at West Point is:

"To educate, train, and inspire the Corps of Cadets so that each graduate is a commissioned leader of character committed to the values of Duty, Honor, Country; professional growth throughout a career as an officer in the United States Army; and a lifetime of selfless service to the nation."




I believe that in order to be a good leader and a well rounded person you need a certain amount of life experience and a well balanced attitude...

True. USMA at West Point does a good job in developing young officers.

Learn about the USMA. http://www.usma.edu/


I know for a fact that some of the young officer's in the british army are spoilt daddie's boys doing their three years of service...

This may or may not be true, however it is totally irrelevent to the US Army and this thread. I know and have served with many West Point Grads ...never met one who was a spoiled daddy's boy.


if you go to westpoint there will be a certain amount of signposting as toyour character on entry to the service. serving in a regular ROTC unit will give you the understanding you need for entry into the armed forces yet you should still retain some fun out of the whole experience...

How much time have you served in the US Army that gives any value to your opinions. I believe the answer is none


the best officers come from regular soldiers (enlisted men in the US) as they have the mindset and the experience to know what the f*ck they are talking about in order to get their boys home...and at the end of the day- thats what its all about.

You are entitled your opinion, but having served in the United States Army for more than two decades with officers from every commissioning source I say it's hogwash.

[Laconian]

Flick
Incoming classes at the Southern Hudson Institute of Technology (aka Hudson High, aka USMA) are budget driven and range from 1500-1800 in any given year. The make-up comes from both kids straight out of high school and from the US Military Academy Prep School (which used to be at Ft. Monmouth, NJ - I'm not sure if it is still there). Prepsters come from either the Active Army (cdrs thought they had officer potential and they were accepted to USMAPS to get their academics up) or were applicants that didn't make the class cut and were given the opportunity to go to the prep school to get better prepared. One major drawback to the prep school is that there is no guarantee you get in the next year, as you have to re-apply all over again. I know the selection rate for Prepsters is fairly high but I can't give you a percentage.

Dorff:
You're kidding right? WP is a commissioning source, not a factory. Each cadet (like every person) has their own traits good, bad and in between. WP teaches leadership from the front, it always has. Cadets live & perfom daily in a military enviroment. There are no real frats. They are taught from the first day of Beast Barracks that the role of the officer is to 1) Accomplish the mission, 2) Take care of their troops & 3) Efficiently use all resources to do 1 & 2. Throughout the remaining 4 years they will put these guidelines into practice as Team Leaders, Squad Leaders, PSGs, PLs & on up through the Cadet Chain of Command.

They are supervised by Army Officers & Noncommissioned Officers to help them along and serve as mentors. If a cadet internalizes the values, duties and responsibilities taught there they will be truly effective leaders. The place has been turning out officers for over 200 years. They have a saying there: "Most of the history we teach was made by the people we taught." And its true. Have there been bad examples of WP grads? Certainly. I know several Grads personally that I wouldn't follow out of idle curiosity. But the scale is tipped far in the balance by Grads that have performed outstanding service to the nation as not only Army (& Air Force) officers,from every war and conflict from the Mexican War up through & including OIF & OEF, but in other walks of life as well, including 2 US Presidents, astronauts, Members of Congress and CEO.


I'm off the soap box now.
L

[THE_Dorff]

sorry if i offended anyone, and its true- I know nothing about westpoint so yeah- i'm talking out my ass...

my comments were made on my experiences of sandhurst, where the british "class" system still rears its head... sandhurst is still full of privately educated young men (although the army is taking steps against this..)

over here in the UK some young officers are often arrogant pr*cks and their reputation often precedes them on entry to some units...

[flickme]

Thanks for all the great info.....except from THE_Dorff. ;)