Palestinian leader urges EU help

[ed316]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/printer_friendly/news_logo.gif
Palestinian leader urges EU help
Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has called on the EU to resume aid to his people, to prevent the Middle East from sliding into a new cycle of conflict.
Mr Abbas told the European Parliament that refusing to help the Palestinians would only make a "deteriorating economic and social situation" worse.
This would have a negative impact on the world as a whole, he added.
Mr Abbas urged the EU to give the new Hamas-led government the chance to adapt to international demands.
Western donors have suspended direct aid to the Palestinian government, to pressure Hamas into renouncing violence and recognising Israel.

PA FINANCIAL CRISIS
$116m: PA's monthly wage bill
PA employs 165,000 people
25% of people in West Bank and Gaza depend on PA wages



The move has plunged the Palestinian Authority (PA) into a financial crisis.
"Our approach needs the support of the international community," Mr Abbas told the EU assembly.
"The new government must be given the given the chance to adapt to the basic requirements of the international community."
Mr Abbas also called on the EU to help put pressure on Israel to release the millions of dollars in tax revenues that it is withholding from the PA.
On Monday, Mr Abbas met Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss aid programmes to the PA.
After militant group Hamas won in elections in January, direct funding from the US and Europe was stopped.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4986082.stm

Published: 2006/05/16 11:31:19 GMT

© BBC MMVI

They burn your flag and now they want your money. Incredible.

[tsuri]

Abbas is a relatively good guy, though.
Suffering of his people will be kept at minimum with the NGO Plan. All that is left is a Hamas that renounces violences and sticks to treaties already signed.

Then we will give them their money and they can start burning our flags again.

[tribal]

All that is left is a Hamas that renounces violences and sticks to treaties already signed.
.


hahahaha

easy for you to say. it would be interesting to see how Israelis will react to people who shoot them and fire rockets at them while in the same breath chant 'we want peace with israel' to the TV cameras.

Olmert is a ****ing pussy and doesnt have the balls or the american permission to deal with hamas and kassams as they should be dealt with.

[Bert]

I don't believe for one second that Hamas wants peace. Abbas wants it -- Hamas doesn't.

I don't get why we should treat Hamas as any other political party, just because they have a majority. The Palestinians elected a gang of thugs, now they suffer the consequences. Now I hear you 'boo hiss cry, the Fatah were corrupt and there were no other alternatives' - I hate to break it to you, but the PA doesn't run a two-party system. There were lots of moderate alternatives, sorry.

[CPLHUNTER]

I don't believe for one second that Hamas wants peace. Abbas wants it -- Hamas doesn't.

I don't get why we should treat Hamas as any other political party, just because they have a majority. The Palestinians elected a gang of thugs, now they suffer the consequences. Now I hear you 'boo hiss cry, the Fatah were corrupt and there were no other alternatives' - I hate to break it to you, but the PA doesn't run a two-party system. There were lots of moderate alternatives, sorry.

If Hamas was smart and not comprised of morons, they would simply recognize Israel as a state, no biggie right? and then behind the scenes use the funding to help build up their military wing or use the funds to feed its people!

[S'13]

If Hamas was smart and not comprised of morons, they would simply recognize Israel as a state, no biggie right?

Maybe it would satisfy the U.S and the E.U... not us. Arafat pulled the same trick. He "recognized" Israel while still funding and conducting terrorism and spoke in Arabic of the "millions of Shahids marching to Jerusalem". But as long as he "recognized" Israel he got foreign aid (which he used to fund terrorism/his and his associates pockets), was considerd by the world a legitimate leader and peace partner. Heck, he even got a Nobel.

[CPLHUNTER]

Maybe it would satisfy the U.S and the E.U... not us. Arafat pulled the same trick. He "recognized" Israel while still funding and conducting terrorism and spoke in Arabic of the "millions of Shahids marching to Jerusalem". But as long as he "recognized" Israel he got foreign aid (which he used to fund terrorism/his and his associates pockets), was considerd by the world a legitimate leader and peace partner. Heck, he even got a Nobel.

What a strange world it is...at least he was smarter than Hamas and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Israel paying out some pretty big sums of $ which they now have cut off?

Biting the hands that feed.

[foxtrot023]

The arabs should have thought this out when they were burning flags. If it was up to me, they would get zip, they can beg Saudi Arabia

[S'13]

What a strange world it is...at least he was smarter than Hamas and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Israel paying out some pretty big sums of $ which they now have cut off?


We also provided them with rifles in order to "uphold law and order" (later used to kill our soldiers and civilians).

Israel was naive back then, believing it had a chnce to reach lasting peace and end this conflict once and for all... the second Intifadah matured us. The same most probably (at least I hope so) happend with the U.S on 9/11 and the E.U following the Madrid and London bombings and this year's Islamist rampaging against Europe.

[Javehn]

We also provided them with rifles in order to "uphold law and order" (later used to kill our soldiers and civilians).

Israel was naive back then, believing it had a chnce to reach lasting peace and end this conflict once and for all... the second Intifadah matured us. The same most probably (at least I hope so) happend with the U.S on 9/11 and the E.U following the Madrid and London bombings and this year's Islamist rampaging against Europe.

Europe is currently overgoing "cycle of appeasement" (C) - as opposed to "cycle of violence" Europeans so eager to explain us . They might understand it , but just like the wimp guy in school they are busy paying to the bulley to notice anything else ...

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

They burn your flag and now they want your money. Incredible.You killed our soldiers in terror attacks but we trade with you.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/King_david_hotel_bombing.jpg

[ed316]

Where is that from?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Where is that from?wikipedia.org

[ed316]

Ok smartass.

[Resurrection]

Where is that from?

The King David Hotel bombing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

[Javehn]

You killed our soldiers in terror attacks but we trade with you.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/King_david_hotel_bombing.jpg


You should check at list who is the person , before calling him "you" (Israeli) . Second , this rage in you is not healthy at all , you should check with with doctor (or get laid once in a while) . Third , change the nick , no one can take you seriously with a basilicuspolimixuaisa nick . And forth , should we really get into the game "who killed more" ? Your proud nation wins with a laaaarge margin .

[S'13]

You killed our soldiers in terror attacks but we trade with you.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/King_david_hotel_bombing.jpg

The targeting of soldiers isn't terrorism but rather guerilla warfare, not to mention that there was no Israel back then.

Anyway, comparing events that occured 50 years ago to events occuring right now and claiming that both should equally affect a country's foreign policy is one of the most idiotic arguments I have ever seen... kind of disappointed in you Bacilluspolymyxa.

[ed316]

Bacilluspolymyxa, you have open a can of worms

[Hollis]

Funny it does not matter what the discussion is, the ANTI-Israel folks will always change it to "The Jews" DID it..................... 5 million Jews(in Israel),,,,,,,,,,,, 6 1/2 billion Humans, and those Jews Control everything?.........Responsible for everything?

But that must be true cause Jews have been awarded 24% of the Nobel Peace Prizes....... :slap:

[Greek soldier]

I smell flame war in here...

[ed316]

Funny it does not matter what the discussion is, the ANTI-Israel folks will always change it to "The Jews" DID it..................... 5 million Jews(in Israel),,,,,,,,,,,, 6 1/2 billion Humans, and those Jews Control everything?.........Responsible for everything?

But that must be true cause Jews have been awarded 24% of the Nobel Peace Prizes....... :slap:

And Jesus was Jewish too OMG!!!! p-)

[CPLHUNTER]

You killed our soldiers in terror attacks but we trade with you.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/King_david_hotel_bombing.jpg

Good point, many choose to forget that Israelis as well as Arabs have engaged in terrorist activities to further a political agenda...

[tribal]

whenever pointing out Arab terrorism and atrocities, there will always be an apologist who will always point out 3 things

1. The King David hotel - since a militant jewish faction bombed this British military HQ 60 years ago and were consequently excommunicated by the chief Rabbi, this means that Jews and Palestinians are morally equal when it comes to terrorism. Never mind that palestinian terrorism happens nearly every day, and there is no sign that this will stop anytime soon, they will point out that jews are just as bad.


2. Sabra Shatila - the 2nd mandatory 'but but' on the apologists list. An act of war committed by Falangist christian militias who were battling the equally bloody Palestinian gangs that took over Lebanon. But offcourse, to anyone who isnt aware, Israelis themselves seem to have slaughtered the palestinians in that 'refugee' camp.

3. Jenin - this terror hive of a city was invaded by IDF after the murderour 2003 terror bombing of the Park Hotel by a palestinian killer. After 40 Holocaust survivors were murdered, IDF went in to clean up and detain hamas and jihad members. The international media was crying tears and screaming bloody murder at the israelis. in the end, 50 arabs killed, 47 of whom were gunmen. 26 israeli soldiers died cleaning that hell hole.


so we can that the 2 sides are ALWAYS morally equal when it comes to terrorism. One side did it once 60 years ago, and another breeds it and commits it daily. Nothing too complicated here.

[CPLHUNTER]

whenever pointing out Arab terrorism and atrocities, there will always be an apologist who will always point out 3 things

1. The King David hotel - since a militant jewish faction bombed this British military HQ 60 years ago and were consequently excommunicated by the chief Rabbi, this means that Jews and Palestinians are morally equal when it comes to terrorism. Never mind that palestinian terrorism happens nearly every day, and there is no sign that this will stop anytime soon, they will point out that jews are just as bad.


2. Sabra Shatila - the 2nd mandatory 'but but' on the apologists list. An act of war committed by Falangist christian militias who were battling the equally bloody Palestinian gangs that took over Lebanon. But offcourse, to anyone who isnt aware, Israelis themselves seem to have slaughtered the palestinians in that 'refugee' camp.

3. Jenin - this terror hive of a city was invaded by IDF after the murderour 2003 terror bombing of the Park Hotel by a palestinian killer. After 40 Holocaust survivors were murdered, IDF went in to clean up and detain hamas and jihad members. The international media was crying tears and screaming bloody murder at the israelis. in the end, 50 arabs killed, 47 of whom were gunmen. 26 israeli soldiers died cleaning that hell hole.


so we can that the 2 sides are ALWAYS morally equal when it comes to terrorism. One side did it once 60 years ago, and another breeds it and commits it daily. Nothing too complicated here.

Relax dude...no one is saying that the terrorism committed Israel comes close to the day to day actions of Hamas or other terrorist groups operated in the area...

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

You should check at list who is the person , before calling him "you" (Israeli) .OK your not an Israeli, so you do not stay in Israel or have Israeli citizenship?

Second , this rage in you is not healthy at all , you should check with with doctor (or get laid once in a while) .No rage here pal, I am sitting here with Willie Nelson playing away and a big mug of tea.:)

Third , change the nick , no one can take you seriously with a basilicuspolimixuaisa nick .Oh what’s in a name.

And forth , should we really get into the game "who killed more" ? Your proud nation wins with a laaaarge margin .No I think we have fallen into 4th position in the last 60 years.


The targeting of soldiers isn't terrorism but rather guerilla warfare, not to mention that there was no Israel back then.Ok so will post some dates and numbers of civilians killed by Jewish terror groups if that would make you happier.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Funny it does not matter what the discussion is, the ANTI-Israel folks will always change it to "The Jews" DID it..................... 5 million Jews(in Israel),,,,,,,,,,,, 6 1/2 billion Humans, and those Jews Control everything?.........Responsible for everything?

But that must be true cause Jews have been awarded 24% of the Nobel Peace Prizes....... :slap:I am in no way a Jew hater, in fact I have knowingly sexed up consenting Jewish women and I do not watch Romper Stomper before I go out on a Saturday night. I do shave my head though and own a Crombie.

[S'13]

Good point, many choose to forget that Israelis as well as Arabs have engaged in terrorist activities to further a political agenda...

Actually it's not a good point...

1) In the mandate period there was no Israel, so how can one claim that "Israelis were engaged in terrorist activities"?

2) The Irgun and Lehi (Stern Gang) did carry out operations that fit the defention of terrorist activities, however these were fringe groups in the Yishuv and were often denounced by the mainstream Haganah.

3) The bombing of the King David Hotel isn't a good example for a "terrorist attack by Jewish groups" as it was a military target.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The bombing of the King David Hotel isn't a good example for a "terrorist attack by Jewish groups" as it was a military target.That funny becuase most of those that died were civillians including 17 Jewish folk.

[S'13]

Ok so will post some dates and numbers of civilians killed by Jewish terror groups if that would make you happier.

You are not doing anyone any favours by providing facts that are actually relevant to the point you are trying to make.

Hopefully, in retrospect, you will agree with me that your argument was stupid.

[Hollis]

I am in no way a Jew hater, in fact I have knowingly sexed up consenting Jewish women and I do not watch Romper Stomper before I go out on a Saturday night. I do shave my head though and own a Crombie.


OH NO Sexed it up............. WOW Mucho macho hombre............ you should re-read your post, sound like you have some latent ****** issue.

Imagine if someone posted this to your "group"

"Hey man I screwed your women"...........

Hint: MCP

[S'13]

That funny becuase most of those that died were civillians including 17 Jewish folk.

So only conventional armies (like the British army) can cause collateral damage when attacking a military target?

Lets not forget the warnings sent to the British telling them to evacuate the building (which were of course ignored).
What most people don't know is that the bombing was meant to destroy documents kept in that building, this was important for the Jewish underground groups following Black Sabbath (Operation Agatha).

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

OH NO Sexed it up............. WOW Mucho macho hombre............ you should re-read your post, sound like you have some latent ****** issue.I dunno about a “latent ****** issue” but I do have a “latex ****** issue”.


Imagine if someone posted this to your "group"

"Hey man I screwed your women"...........No problem here folks nothing like a bit of ethnic diversity.

[PELASGOS]

Palestinians married to Israelis lose battle Sunday May 14, 05:27 PM



JERUSALEM (*******) - Israel's High Court on Sunday narrowly upheld a law that denies Israeli residency to many Palestinians who marry Israelis, rejecting appeals against a statute critics say violates human rights and is racist.

The restrictions, an amendment to Israel's Citizenship Law, affect thousands of Palestinian and Israeli Arab couples. Marriages between Palestinians and Israeli Jews are rare.

"The Palestinian Authority is an enemy government, a government that wants to destroy the (Jewish) state and is not willing to recognise Israel," Justice Michel Cheshin said in support of the 6-5 ruling against the appeals.

In a dissenting opinion, Chief Justice Aharon Barak said the amendment violated civil rights.

"This is a very black day for Israel and also a black day for my family and for the other families who are suffering like us because they have been denied permission to live together," said Muad el-Sana, an Israeli Arab married to a Palestinian woman from the West Bank town of Bethlehem.

Israel grants citizenship to anyone who can prove that at least one of his grandparents was Jewish.





It's interesting that the press always comments the minority judges concerns about human rights but at the end the racist laws pass. Very democratic indeed. :-(

[S'13]

Incredible... the title of the thread says "Palestinian leader urges EU help" but after only ten posts in turned into a discussion on the Jewish underground during the mandate period and now, out of the blue, the topic of the citizenship law in Israel is brought up.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

So only conventional armies (like the British army) can cause collateral damage when attacking a military target?
Lets not forget the warnings sent to the British telling them to evacuate the building (which were of course ignored).The warnings were not ignored, the King David took some time to evacuate and not everyone got out before the bomb went off. The Irgun were well known for their bloodlust and had scant regard for innocent life.


What most people don't know is that the bombing was meant to destroy documents kept in that building, this was important for the Jewish underground groups following Black Sabbath (Operation Agatha).The information contained in many of the documents seized from the Jewish Agency were supposed to be of a financial nature. So people died to preserve the arcane financial workings and transactions of Jewish Agency?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Incredible... the title of the thread says "Palestinian leader urges EU help" but after only ten posts in turned into a discussion on the Jewish underground during the mandate period and now, out of the blue, the topic of the citizenship law in Israel is brought up.You know the old adage. People in glass houses...........

[tribal]

Incredible... the title of the thread says "Palestinian leader urges EU help" but after only ten posts in turned into a discussion on the Jewish underground during the mandate period and now, out of the blue, the topic of the citizenship law in Israel is brought up.


i know right. lets discuss the treatment of gays by the religious people or any of the hundreds of other 'proofs' of israeli racism and etc etc etc.

nevermind that not a single arab country allows you to visit them if you have an israeli stamp in your passport, its this obscure marriage law thats the evilest of the evil!!! id be laughign if it wasnt so sad.

[Moledet]

The warnings were not ignored, the King David took some time to evacuate and not everyone got out before the bomb went off. The Irgun were well known for their bloodlust and had scant regard for innocent life.

The information contained in many of the documents seized from the Jewish Agency were supposed to be of a financial nature. So people died to preserve the arcane financial workings and transactions of Jewish Agency?
Warnings were ignored, all of them. Not that alone, the coward British officer said that he came to Palestine to command the Jews and not to accept commands from them and later he left while giving an order to not leave the building.

The documents would have lead to mass arrests of Jewish leaders and destroy any chance for a Jewish state.

As for that law, the Palestinians are an enemy entity, how can you criticise us for not giving them citizenship?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

i know right. lets discuss the treatment of gays by the religious people or any of the hundreds of other 'proofs' of israeli racism and etc etc etc.

nevermind that not a single arab country allows you to visit them if you have an israeli stamp in your passport, its this obscure marriage law thats the evilest of the evil!!! id be laughign if it wasnt so sad.Hold up there buddy, I have plenty of constructive criticism when it come down to our Arab brethren and the bad company they keep.
http://www.the-idm.com/media/content_autumn_05/Prince-Abdullah.jpg
http://www.ideagrove.com/blog/uploaded_images/Osama-bin-Laden-773756.jpg

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Warnings were ignored, all of them. Not that alone, the coward British officer said that he came to Palestine to command the Jews and not to accept commands from them and later he left while giving an order to not leave the building.

The documents would have lead to mass arrests of Jewish leaders and destroy any chance for a Jewish state.That’s funny because the hotel was under evacuation when the bomb went off, so there is some revisionist history going on here.:|

[S'13]

The warnings were not ignored, the King David took some time to evacuate and not everyone got out before the bomb went off.


Why then did the British deny this? It wasn't untill 1979 when a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived.



The information contained in many of the documents seized from the Jewish Agency were supposed to be of a financial nature. So people died to preserve the arcane financial workings and transactions of Jewish Agency?


Actually the documents contained information about Jewish Agency operations (like so called "illegal" immigration).

[S'13]

You know the old adage. People in glass houses...........

You are trying to force people into a glass house, ain't really working though.

p-)

Still waiting for some recognition on your side to the fact that you made an idiotic comment several posts back. But I guess your ego is in your way... pitty.

[Moledet]

That’s funny because the hotel was under evacuation when the bomb went off, so there is some revisionist history going on here.:|
The hotel? You mean the HQ. Today it's a hotel, at that time it wasn't.
And no it wasn't, how long does it take to evacuate 130+ people from a police HQ? They were given enough time and enough warnings, they refused to cooporate.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Why then did the British deny this? It wasn't untill 1979 when a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived.There has never been any denial that a warning was issued but the time given by the Irgun for the authorities to evacuate the building was insufficient. Anyways I find it surprising that you guys somehow try to offset the blame for the bomb causalities onto the British come on people it was a terror attack I am expecting condemnation here.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

You are trying to force people into a glass house, ain't really working though.

p-)

Still waiting for some recognition on your side to the fact that you made an idiotic comment several posts back. But I guess your ego is in your way... pitty.Idiotic comments! I suppose its all down to perception. :)

[tribal]

Bacilluswhatever


in the end:

this happened over 60 years ago by a fringe militant group that gave a warning before striking what was wihtout a doubt a military target, an official British military HQ. ok?

this happened once over 60 years ago!!

Palestinian terrorism occurs every day. Without warnings. On real civilian targets. End of story.

[S'13]

There has never been any denial that a warning was issued but the time given by the Irgun for the authorities to evacuate the building was insufficient.

Any source to back that up?

Here's my source:
Benjamin Netanyahu, ed., “International Terrorism: Challenge And Response,” Proceedings of the Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism, July 2*5, 1979, (Jerusalem: The Jonathan Institute, 1980), p. 45.



Anyways I find it surprising that you guys somehow try to offset the blame for the bomb causalities onto the British come on people it was a terror attack I am expecting condemnation here.


Sorry mate, but what was bombed was the the British military command... a military target, and if targeting a military target is going to be considerd a terrorist act, then you may as well call the British army a terrorist organization.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Bacilluswhatever


in the end:

this happened over 60 years ago by a fringe militant group that gave a warning before striking what was wihtout a doubt a military target, an official British military HQ. ok?

this happened once over 60 years ago!!

Palestinian terrorism occurs every day. Without warnings. On real civilian targets. End of story.When the Palestinians finally give up violence the Israeli people will remember the soldiers that have fallen in the fight against terror 60 years from that date. Why should we be any different.

[tribal]

When the Palestinians finally give up violence the Israeli people will remember the soldiers that have fallen in the fight against terror 60 years from that date. Why should we be any different.


who's we?

...,.,.,.

[S'13]

Idiotic comments! I suppose its all down to perception. :)

Some things mate, like that comment you made, are beyond perception.

[S'13]

When the Palestinians finally give up violence the Israeli people will remember the soldiers that have fallen in the fight against terror 60 years from that date. Why should we be any different.

But what does it have to do with a country's current policies?!

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Any source to back that up?The fact that the Irgun had to shoot their way out of the hotel killing Major Mackintosh and a policeman just proves how little warning was given. Lets be honest here there is no point in using revisionist history to justify terror.





Sorry mate, but what was bombed was the the British military command... a military target, and if targeting military target is going to be considerd a terrorist act, then you may as well call the British army a terrorist organization.Part of the hotel was used as the Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan not all of it.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

who's we?

...,.,.,.The British.

[LaoSexMachine]

The Palistinian brought this on themselves. Now they are paying for it.

BTW What's up with ant-Semitism in Europe? I heard it's on the rise and Bacilwhatever has the sickness.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The Palistinian brought this on themselves. Now they are paying for it.

BTW What's up with ant-Semitism in Europe? I heard it's on the rise and Bacilwhatever has the sickness.Oh I don't mind Jewish folk at all I just don't always agree with them on historical subjects but I don't hold that against them. I have stated on this forum on more than a few occasions that I have a great admiration for some Israeli government agencies. I really can't think of a race that I dislike and I am non religious so there is no hang up in that department either.

[Kilgor]

Oh I don't mind Jewish folk at all I just don't always agree with them on historical subjects but I don't hold that against them. I have stated on this forum on more than a few occasions that I have a great admiration for some Israeli government agencies. I really can't think of a race that I dislike and I am non religious so there is no hang up in that department either.

yet you consider Islamic and "israeli terrorism" as equal ?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

yet you consider Islamic and "israeli terrorism" as equal ?I consider the ethics and actions of the Irgun and Hamas as equal and the same.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/Irgun1.jpg

[Moledet]

The fact that the Irgun had to shoot their way out of the hotel killing Major Mackintosh and a policeman just proves how little warning was given. Lets be honest here there is no point in using revisionist history to justify terror.

Part of the hotel was used as the Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan not all of it.
The warnings were given before the bombs were planted. When the bombs arrived (inside milk bottles) Topol planted them and escaped the hotel while running, he jumped out of a balcony and broke his leg and narowly escaped the blast.
The reason they warned the Brits before planting the bombs was that they won't be found.

[S'13]

The fact that the Irgun had to shoot their way out of the hotel killing Major Mackintosh and a policeman just proves how little warning was given.


What is your point?

They were discoverd on their way out and were fired upon, so they had to shoot their way out. The device and the expolisves were hidden in 7 milk jugs in the kitchen and no one knew of their existence.

At 12:10 the call warning of the bombing was made... at 12:37 the device detonated.



Lets be honest here there is no point in using revisionist history to justify terror


Be honest and admit that you have no source to back your claims.



Part of the hotel was used as the Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan not all of it.


And that part of the building was the one targeted (and this is clearly seen in the photos of the explosion's aftermath).

[CPLHUNTER]

I consider the ethics and actions of the Irgun and Hamas as equal and the same.


Here's a flame on comment...please note that I am NOT ANTI JEWISH...

However, it is known historical fact that I have seen from everywhere from Benny Morris, to the History Channel, to the internet that for a short period of time, Jews engaged in terrorist styled actions against an occupation.

The revolutionaries in WW2 & here in America engaged in unconventional warfare (ie our definition of terrorism) since their actions results in non military personel being killed and or being targeted.

It seems like many nations when faced w/ an overwhelming superior force will resort to non conventional warface that may or may not be pretty close to terrorist in nature. The is a last resort when you are fighting an enemy that you cannot attack or confront headon...

Israel has no need to directy attack Palestinian soft targets or indirecty kill civilians as a military tool, b/c they have overwhelming firepower...

Not that I'm advocating strapping a bomb to your chest and walking into a restraurant and pulling the plug!

I'm just stating that desperate times call for desperate measures and when you are faced with what you percieve as an oppresive "occupation" you just might not play so nice ;)

[Moledet]

Here's a flame on comment...please note that I am NOT ANTI JEWISH...

However, it is known historical fact that I have seen from everywhere from Benny Morris, to the History Channel, to the internet that for a short period of time, Jews engaged in terrorist styled actions against an occupation.

The revolutionaries in WW2 & here in America engaged in unconventional warfare (ie our definition of terrorism) since their actions results in non military personel being killed and or being targeted.

It seems like many nations when faced w/ an overwhelming superior force will resort to non conventional warface that may or may not be pretty close to terrorist in nature. The is a last resort when you are fighting an enemy that you cannot attack or confront headon...

Israel has no need to directy attack Palestinian soft targets or indirecty kill civilians as a military tool, b/c they have overwhelming firepower...

Not that I'm advocating strapping a bomb to your chest and walking into a restraurant and pulling the plug!

I'm just stating that desperate times call for desperate measures and when you are faced with what you percieve as an oppresive "occupation" you just might not play so nice ;)
It's not nearly the same.
The goal was not to kill civilians or anyone as a matter of fact, the Palestinian terrorists goal is to kill as many Jewish civilians as possible.

They don't plan attacks on military targets, they only plan attacks on civilians (very rarely there are planned attacks on military targets). Civilians in their case don't come as a collateral damage that they are sorry about, it comes as a main goal.
Restaurants, caffes, malls, busses and bus stations are civilian targets they aren't owned by the military, protected by it or used by it in any way. There's no reason to attack those targets unless you are after killing civilians.

[Bert]

Let's say Irgun and Hamas were equal. I don't agree with that, but let's just assume. Why won't the PA follow the Israeli example of merging their militant guerrilla groups with the official military force? If the armed wing of Hamas were to be organised under the PA security forces, if they stopped dressing in green headbands with partisan slogans on them, and stopped targetting civilians, Israel would certainly be pushed by the international community to talk to them. I don't get their lack of.. foresight.

[tribal]

Jewish groups never targeted civilians specifically and on the scale of islamic terror gangs. Jewish kids were never brought up on tales of shaheeds and promised paradise if they blew up a restaurant. Just comparing the scale and number of terror attacks perpetrated by jews and arabs is like comparing a fly to an elephant. There is no comparison.

Dont forget that jews agreed and wanted to settle for virtually every peace agreement that the UN offered to both sides while the palestinians have rejected every single one since 1948.

[Bert]

Israel:
Gave up Sinai and signed peace agreement with Egypt
Signed peace agreement with Jordan
Withdrew from the Gaza Strip

Palestine:
Agreed to the Oslo Accords, only to ignore them completely not long afterwards.

Say what you want about Israeli anti-terror tactics, but this speaks a lot.

[PELASGOS]

Jews were conducting a guerilla war vs the Britons and used dirty or non dirty tactics depends how everyone sees it.

But what's the purpose of assasinating a UN mediator Count Foulk Bernadotte?Plus he had saved Jews during the war.


Bernadotte, a Swede with family ties to the Swedish King, gained international recognition through his work as head of the Swedish Red Cross during World War II. Bernadotte used his position to negotiate with Heinrich Himmler and save thousands of Jews from concentration camps, although many argue that he could have done more had he been less cautious in negotiations.



The assassination

On September 17, 1948, the day following the signing of the second plan, Folke Bernadotte was assassinated in an ambush in the Israeli-controlled sector of Jerusalem. The murderers were never found and no one was ever convicted of the assassination. It was, however, commonly surmised from the very beginning that members of the Lohamei Herut Yisrael (LEHY), or the Stern Gang, carried out the assassination. It is now well established that the decision to kill the UN mediator was made by the Central Committee of the LEHY, which included Yitzhak Yezernitzky-Shamir. LEHY saw Count Bernadotte as the main obstacle to an Israeli annexation of Jerusalem and to Jewish control of all Palestine. (Yitzhak Shamir went on to serve as prime minister of Israel in 1983–84 and 1986–92.) The man who held the gun is believed to have been Yehoshua Cohen. (See S. Persson, Mediation & Assassination: Count Bernadotte’s Mission to Palestine 1948 [1979], pp. 208 ff.; A. Ilan, Bernadotte in Palestine, 1948 [1989], pp. 212-220, 233-237; K. Marton, A Death in Jerusalem [1994], pp. 208-223, 253-257.)

The assassination of the UN mediator in Palestine sent a shock wave around the world. All flags in Sweden flew at half staff. Memorial services were held all over the world. The funeral procession of Folke Bernadotte was watched by hundreds of thousands of Stockholmers. The United Nations and the major powers condemned the deed. But no sanctions or other practical actions against Israel were ever undertaken. The UN swallowed this astounding challenge. Both in Israel and the Arab states, respect and trust for the world organization vanished. In Israel, the assassination of Bernadotte was viewed with indifference. The police in Jerusalem made no real effort to arrest the murderer.
After his death, Bernadotte’s second plan was also abandoned. The final blow came when President Truman, facing an uphill battle in the autumn 1948 U.S. presidential election campaign, repudiated Bernadotte’s proposals in a pro-Israeli declaration on October 28. In the United Nations, a strange alignment of forces, comprising the Arab states and their allies, and Israel and her supporters, including the Soviet bloc, together rejected the mediator’s plan. After the United States withdrew its support, the British could not push the Bernadotte plan through the UN alone.



Minus one eyewitness about the nature of the camps.p-)

[S'13]

Minus one eyewitness about the nature of the camps.p-)

I don't see what there is to gloat about... the murder is a tragedy, yet doesn't reveal anything new.

It's well know that Lehi was a fringe terrorist organization (among the reasons for it being called the Stern gang).

[PELASGOS]

I don't see what there is to gloat about... the murder is a tragedy, yet doesn't reveal anything new.

It's well know that Lehi was a fringe terrorist organization (among the reasons for it being called the Stern gang).


A gang member , Samir, became PM of Israel.

[S'13]

A gang member , Samir, became PM of Israel.

In his later years he presided at the peace talks with Egypt and guided negotiations with Egypt to normalize relations after the treaty was signed.

In 1991 the Shamir government tried to advance a peaceful solution to the conflict with the Palestinians through the Madrid peace talks.

I don't think these are things that you would expect of the Shamir from the Lehi days.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

It's well know that Lehi was a fringe terrorist organization (among the reasons for it being called the Stern gang).Yeah but for a leader of a “fringe” terror group he is accorded national hero status and even had a postage stamp issued in his honour in 1978.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/Stern-stamp.jpg
But I imagine many of the Israelis on this forum would agree with me that he suffered a righteous fate, the one many terrorists should suffer.

[Asheren]

Hint for Plaestinian leader: Buy less guns.

[S'13]

Yeah but for a leader of a “fringe” terror group he is accorded national hero status and even had a postage stamp issued in his honour in 1978.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e3/Stern-stamp.jpg
But I imagine many of the Israelis on this forum would agree with me that he suffered a righteous fate, the one many terrorists should suffer.

If you understood the politics of Israel in the first 30 years of its existence, you would understand why this stamp was issued.

It was a natural backlash against the efforts made by the Mapai party (which was rooted in Labor Zionism and historicaly the mainstream leadership of the Yishuv) to suppress the Revisionist Zionist views in Israel. This included suppressing the memory of the Revisionists part in the fight for Israel's indepedence.

Though the Lehi was a terrorist group, it also took part in legitimate operations.
And so when the Likud (a party rooted in Revisionist Zionisim) had for the first time come to power and defeated Mapai in 1977, it set about on raising the memory of "Revisionist" elements that fought for independence.

This stamp doesn't indicate that Stern actually had a hero status in Israel... to me it reflects the political turnabout that occurred in Israel in the late 70's.
And whatever acceptance of the Lehi's terrorist actions that may have existed back in the 70's... well I believe those are long gone as plenty of sacred cows (with much higher status than Stern... believe me), have been slaughtered since then.



But I imagine many of the Israelis on this forum would agree with me that he suffered a righteous fate, the one many terrorists should suffer.


Lets say that there were plenty of people in the Yishuv who were relieved when they lerant that he was shot dead.

[Hullebullen]

We do have a right to make demands. It's the EU and the US that forks out the money for the Palestinians. Not the other Arab states. I guess it's frustrating that it is the Great Satan and his infidel european friends along with the jewish state that has made it possible in the past for the PA to pay its employees.
Sure the Arab states make promises, but they rather keep status qou so they can keep prodding Israel with UN resolutions. As far as I've heard the money from the Arab states that were promised to the palestinians to pick up the slack from withheld western funds, were just that, promises.

The Palestinians had a good chance at a two-state solution a couple of years ago, but squandered it. They have yet to realize that beggars can't be choosers. History, is, and have always been, harsh to losers and small nations. But they were given a second chance, a raw deal perhaps, but a deal nonetheless.

Now, Israel acts unilateral and have decided for herself where her new borders will be. The next time, if there will be a next time, the terms for the Palestinians will be even harder than they were the last time around...

[PELASGOS]

In his later years he presided at the peace talks with Egypt and guided negotiations with Egypt to normalize relations after the treaty was signed.

In 1991 the Shamir government tried to advance a peaceful solution to the conflict with the Palestinians through the Madrid peace talks.

I don't think these are things that you would expect of the Shamir from the Lehi days.


The question stands. Why Bernadotte was killed? He was an innocent civilian and rescued Jews you know.

[Hollis]

WOW the thread has changed, why don't it get a new name, Those evil Jews and their evil empire Israel...

What happend to the PA? and all the brown shirts can have a field day

[CPLHUNTER]

WOW the thread has changed, why don't it get a new name, Those evil Jews and their evil empire Israel...

What happend to the PA? and all the brown shirts can have a field day

Yes it has...I've never heard some much info and views by both opposing sides.

The differences in thought are amazing.

[S'13]

The question stands. Why Bernadotte was killed? He was an innocent civilian and rescued Jews you know.

Because in the eyes of the Lehi his plan was a threat to its goal of Israeli independence on both banks of the Jordan River.

The Bernadotte Plan:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/bernplan.html

[Bert]

That'd turn Jerusalem into Berlin. Not good.

[S'13]

That'd turn Jerusalem into Berlin. Not good.

Doesn't matter as the plan wasn't accepted by the Arabs or Israel anyway.