World War 1 artifacts: Champagne, France

[stonecutter]

On a recent trip, I met and befriended an 84 year-old man in the Champagne region of France, who has been collecting WWI memorabilia since the 1930s. I was priviledged to see his collection, as well as listen to his stories (his father was a poilu [French soldier] in the trenches) around the kitchen table, and handle many of the artifacts and weapons in his collection. Try doing that at Les Invalides!
Anyway,here are some photos from this magnificent encounter I had with French countryside history and hospitality. A few photos of Belleau Wood are included for our American friends.

His house was right on the front line during the last great German offensive in 1918; three German divisions were camped in the valley and hills surrounding his house. The woods in the area are full of shell holes, and barbed wire can still be seen poking from the ground.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1696.jpg

The house he's living in now had been machine-gunned; bullets can still be seen in the softer mortar joints between the stones.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1693.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/27f4cacf.jpg

A few days before I met him, he'd dug a 20m long trench for a water line near his home; this is what he pulled out of that small trench:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1636.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/Img_1597.jpg

German trenching tool (original wood handle) that a lot of French farmers still use today to plant their potatoes:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1702.jpg

Grenade collection:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1698.jpg

Close-up of German grenade:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1699.jpg

German wicker shell carrying case, with shell:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1609.jpg

Officer's picklehaube helmet:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1617.jpg

Chlorine gas cannister (chlorine powder was put in the rod at the top of the container, which was then plunged down into water, causing a reaction that produced the gas)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1616.jpg


More to come, gotta go

[Bombtrack]

Great pictures, sounds like a hell of experience, post more if yo ucan

[Holmer]

Very nice .... keep us posted.

[roland]

Excellent. If you have some more, even of the wood were the fighting took place don't hesitate.


A few days before I met him, he'd dug a 20m long trench for a water line near his home; this is

For a 84 year old man he is in a good shape. Hell a 20m long trench isn't a little task !

[Johnny_H]

christ, how does he sleep at night? there is a good chance allot of that ordnance is still "live" they have explosives teams still extracting shells and explosives from WW1 sites.

I would imagin he has been collecting since the 30's and is still here, so he knows what hes doing, I still think its crazy though to be digging up unexploded shells and grenades, no matter how cool it is.

[Olybrius]

it's probably a very nice old man but what he's doing is totally ILLEGAL.
you should remove his picture ...

[Blumenteufel]

Man these are some very interesting pictures. Especially the handgrenades make me shiver, built at a time where most concepts and technologies were still pretty basic they look so ancient but deadly.
keep on posting! Thank You!

[Luno]

I don’t like when a amateur are digging up the old battlefield the words ''grave robber'' crept to mind.

[oldsoak]

If thats where he lives, he 's got no choice.
but I'd get the bomb disposal boys in pronto !

[Vandervahn]

If thats where he lives, he 's got no choice.
but I'd get the bomb disposal boys in pronto !

Well, some of his grenades in this pic (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1698.jpg ) (http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1698.jpg) look like they have been defused.

[Luno]

If thats where he lives, he 's got no choice.
but I'd get the bomb disposal boys in pronto !


The guy is a collector so he does it because he wants to find old war trophies not because he needs the land.

[DeltaWhisky58]

I don’t like when a amateur are digging up the old battlefield the words ''grave robber'' crept to mind.

If thats where he lives, he 's got no choice.
but I'd get the bomb disposal boys in pronto !

You guys clearly have no idea of the situation in the areas around the WW1 battlefields in France and Belgium. The amount of unexploded ordnance still undiscovered is incredibly large - the teams who work on it full time still estimate there is 30-40 years of work left in removing and disposing of such material.

The disposal teams will respond to calls when very large or extremely dangerous items - e.g. chemical munitions - are found, or when in dangerous situations such as on construction sites, but the material routinely found in day-to-day activities in and around habitation and farms is normally just piled up at the side of the road and the "De-Miners" collect it next time they are passing.

The situation pictured in Stonecutter's post is not unusual, these people just have a very matter of fact attitude to unexploded ordnance - if Stonecutter's acquaintance is 84yo (b. 1922) then he has clearly lived with this situation all of his life, plus a four year German occupation (1940-44) into the bargain.

Think about it ... ...

[mas36]

He is lucky to be still alive, that is, if he is personally digging this stuff up himself. There was a well-known British fellow who wrote and published this book called "Battlefield Archeaology". He would find all kinds of things from battle sites, mostly WW 1. A few years ago, he was killed and his whole house destroyed. I heard there was nothing left but a crater. Turns out his huge artillery shell collection in his basement detonated, many of them being live shells. Yes, picking things up from battlesites is VERY dangerous. Furthermore, if you find human remains and not report it, it could land you in prison.

[stonecutter]

Thanks for the interest, and I'll address some of your questions/concerns a bit later tonight when I have more time. In the meantime, here are a few more photos, including my favorites.

He had some beautiful glass pieces, including etched examples from the trenches. Here are some German bottles, with portraits (charicatures) of the Crown Prince and the Kaiser, carved onto the glass by German soldiers. From the Ardennes sector of the Western Front. He had a bunch of old bottles, including many from a German field hospital site, which he had just uncovered prior to my arrival (the germans had dug large refuse pits and dumped everything into these prior to evacuating an area). He gave me half a dozen, they're sitting at home now. (He also gave me two French grenades, which I didn't think would be prudent to take to the airport with me...bah!).
Anyway...Sorry they're not rotated, but you get the idea:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1603.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1604.jpg


And here's a French soldier's artwork: "Les Maitres de L'Europe" (The Masters of Europe), depicting a rat or a pig wearing a German helmet:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1613.jpg


Since we're on art, here's a magnificent portrait of his father, who fought in the trenches for 4 years. Must be a daguerotype (sp?) -- the detail and quality of it was absolutely breathtaking (certainly not something my camera could capture, especially shooting through the portrait's glass cover):

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1606.jpg

Together we spent a couple hours going through all of this man's letters to his wife and sons, sent from the trenches. I can't even begin to tell you how tough those poor bastards were back then, poilus and German soldiers alike (although, the French soldiers did seem to have more primitive trench conditions, partly due to their crazy "attack at all costs" attitude to war, instead of spending more time with their defensive works).

[DeltaWhisky58]

Since we're on art, here's a magnificent portrait of his father, who fought in the trenches for 4 years. Must be a daguerreotype (sp?) -- the detail and quality of it was absolutely breathtaking (certainly not something my camera could capture, especially shooting through the portrait's glass cover):

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1606.jpg

Together we spent a couple hours going through all of this man's letters to his wife and sons, sent from the trenches. I can't even begin to tell you how tough those poor bastards were back then, poilus and German soldiers alike (although, the French soldiers did seem to have more primitive trench conditions, partly due to their crazy "attack at all costs" attitude to war, instead of spending more time with their defencive works).

Thanks again for sharing these with us. This picture is at least 50 years too late to be a Daguerreotype - these were amongst the very earliest photos taken in the mid-c.19th. There is something very off about this portrait in that the guy's head is un-naturally large in proportion to the rest of the body. My guess is that the plate holding rear part of the camera was somehow tilted in relation to the focal plain of the lens thus altering the perspective of the image.

[Loco]

From distance is easy to speake or critize. Near a hill in the farm of my maternal grandmonther family I remember, then a very little child, going with the bigger boys of the town looking for bullets, actually there were bullets, fragmented howitzer ammunition, fuses that I didn´t know what were until I did military service, military liquor cases, old boots...Many houses there kept some memorabilia from war, but that´s what´s happen when a battle was fought around and the bullets falls on your roof.

[stonecutter]

Thanks again for sharing these with us. This picture is at least 50 years too late to be a Daguerreotype - these were amongst the very earliest photos taken in the mid-c.19th. There is something very off about this portrait in that the guy's head is un-naturally large in proportion to the rest of the body. My guess is that the plate holding rear part of the camera was somehow tilted in relation to the focal plain of the lens thus altering the perspective of the image.


Yes, the portrait is un-proportioned, and that is because I took a photo of it from an angle, which skewed things. The actual portrait itself is perfectly fine, and breathtaking. I thought it might be a Daguerreotype because of its quality, and I say that because a friend of mine who went to Juliard school of music in New York maybe 10 years ago had her official portrait taken (fancy pose, in opera dress, etc), and it was a Daguerreotype. The quality of her black and white photo matched what I saw with this poilu's portrait, and that's why I thought they may have both been Daguerreotypes. Old technology, yes, but it is still used today even!

Here's another portrait, this one of one of his father's friends:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1607.jpg

One last bit of art: Bits of Champagne chalk, carved by German soldiers

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/ea7e7f03.jpg

A few more items from the collection (and please correct me if I'm wrong with the identifications):

German Maxim machine gun (complete, working condition)
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1614.jpg


French Hotchkiss machine gun. Found mostly intact buried in a shell hole, but he added extra parts to it found from other locations to make a complete, working specimen.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1608.jpg

THIS was awesome! A U.S. Army field telephone, again in working condition. In fact he had TWO of these, one of which he set up so that from his workshop he could call his wife sitting in the kitchen, to tell her to bring him some lunch! Heh heh heh
These field telephones were found in the early 1930s, when the trenches and dugouts were still relatively intact. Can you imagine...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1700.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1701.jpg


More later....

[stonecutter]

He is lucky to be still alive, that is, if he is personally digging this stuff up himself. There was a well-known British fellow who wrote and published this book called "Battlefield Archeaology". He would find all kinds of things from battle sites, mostly WW 1. A few years ago, he was killed and his whole house destroyed. I heard there was nothing left but a crater. Turns out his huge artillery shell collection in his basement detonated, many of them being live shells. Yes, picking things up from battlesites is VERY dangerous. Furthermore, if you find human remains and not report it, it could land you in prison.

Yeah, I must admit at times I was a bit nervous in his museum, with all those shells and some grenades that still looked very much live. I brought it up with him, and I guess he's been doing this for a very long time now, and had spent time in the army; he told me how German and French shell fuses worked and popped some out to show me how they posed no risk anymore...made sense at the time but it was still a bit scary.
I don't know what the rules are in France for collecting. I do know that this man had gone out once and found a skeleton next to a shell hole, which after more digging it was revealed it was clothed in horizon blue and had an adrian helmet. He quickly organized a proper burial for the soldier at the local military cemetary, and officals were involved. He runs his private collection as a museum (no entry fee, just bring a proper attitude and interest), which is advertised in the local area. Nothing is hidden. Even if it is illegal, then this would be due to a more recent law which wasn't around in the 1930s, and I'm guessing his collection would be grandfathered and therefore perfectly legit, for those who are wondering.

[mas36]

Yeah, I must admit at times I was a bit nervous in his museum, with all those shells and some grenades that still looked very much live. I brought it up with him, and I guess he's been doing this for a very long time now, and had spent time in the army; he told me how German and French shell fuses worked and popped some out to show me how they posed no risk anymore...made sense at the time but it was still a bit scary.
I don't know what the rules are in France for collecting. I do know that this man had gone out once and found a skeleton next to a shell hole, which after more digging it was revealed it was clothed in horizon blue and had an adrian helmet. He quickly organized a proper burial for the soldier at the local military cemetary, and officals were involved. He runs his private collection as a museum (no entry fee, just bring a proper attitude and interest), which is advertised in the local area. Nothing is hidden. Even if it is illegal, then this would be due to a more recent law which wasn't around in the 1930s, and I'm guessing his collection would be grandfathered and therefore perfectly legit, for those who are wondering.


This is reassuring to know, and I'm glad he knows what he is doing. Please pass on to him my compliments on his amazing collection and for respecting the dead as well.

p.s.- If he ever needs a home for the Hotchkiss MG, I'd be very happy help!;-)

[kaspur_eh]

outstanding pictures, very interesting!

[stonecutter]

Excellent. If you have some more, even of the wood were the fighting took place don't hesitate.

For a 84 year old man he is in a good shape. Hell a 20m long trench isn't a little task !


Roland,

Yes, he's in very good shape -- good solid French peasant stock! He had a pretty tough life. His 7 year-old brother was killed in a German artillery attack on Reims, where his mother worked as a secretary in the administration of General Joffre (helping type the day's orders for all the divisions on the front, etc). His brother took 5 hours to die in the arms of his frantic mother, after a piece of shrapnel went through his head. His father died a hard death in 1922, asphyxiated by the lingering effects of a German gas attack in 1918 (BTW, all this information is available in his book, Mots d'Amour, Maux de Guerre). The French government later sent him as a boy to St. Cyr, as part of a program where WWI orphans were put into a very spartan and rigid military system for years on end, in order to train future officers to replace the horrific losses of WWI. He managed to get out of this when he was 15 (he's still pretty bitter about it!), and then all his WWII experiences added more hardship.... But anyway I digress. Yes I took photos of the woods where fighting took place, especially in the Chemin des Dames area. I couldn't believe the devastation; there was not one flat piece of woodland left. Old trench lines were still visible in the ground, covered by tens of thousands of shell holes, some carving craters that were still 10 m deep. Unfortunately I took these photos with an SLR camera, and I don't have a scanner. It really is sobering to see the scale of destruction at such places.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/Img_1584.jpg

The Chemin des Dames area was interesting also because of the depth of its military history. Here, in 57 B.C., Caesar's Legions crushed the Gauls, and in 486, a young Frankish king by the name of Clovis defeated the Romans. In 1814, Napoleon's "Marie-Louise" (young, green, recruits) troops won him his last victory before Waterloo, against a Prussian and Russian army. There's a big statue of Bonaparte on the Chemin des Dames ridge, which stands at the site of an old windmill (blown apart in WWI), from where he directed the battle. Again, I'd love to show you guys these photos, but they're SLR shots. But, here's something Napoleonic anyway:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1703.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1630.jpg

This sabre belonged to the man's great-grandfather, who had fought in Napoleon's army in the Hussards de la garde, under General Murat I believe. We spent an hour reading through the letters this man had sent home from the Napoleonic fronts -- holy sh!t did those guys suffer as well. I'm going to try and get photocopies of all that. Anyway, this beautiful sabre was hanging on his wall, and he was like, "yeah, sure, take it out of its scabbard, get a good feel of it, wave it around!". What an experience.

[DeltaWhisky58]

There is something quite special about handling a real piece of history. Last month, whilst doing some research at Edinburgh Castle, I had the opportunity to handle the French Eagle of the 45th Regiment captured at Waterloo by Sgt. Ewart of The 2nd Dragoons, I also handled Ewart's sword. My connection is that my 4g grandfather was in the 2nd Dragoons 1794-1814.

Sorry to go off topic on this, but I thought a couple of pix would be nice, especially with the French Napoleonic connection.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/HighlandSniper58/RSDG_Eagle-03.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/HighlandSniper58/RSDG_1796_patt-heavy-cavalry-sabre_.jpg
[Both pix © DW58]

[roland]

thanks for the pictures and the story stone.

do you know this site ?

http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/index.htm

It's a database where all dead for France are registered. Millions of forms scanned.

(confirmed what I already know: my family, mother's side, was almost exterminated)

try with your name (you're quebequer right ?)

[Olybrius]

Yeah, I must admit at times I was a bit nervous in his museum, with all those shells and some grenades that still looked very much live. I brought it up with him, and I guess he's been doing this for a very long time now, and had spent time in the army; he told me how German and French shell fuses worked and popped some out to show me how they posed no risk anymore...made sense at the time but it was still a bit scary.
I don't know what the rules are in France for collecting. I do know that this man had gone out once and found a skeleton next to a shell hole, which after more digging it was revealed it was clothed in horizon blue and had an adrian helmet. He quickly organized a proper burial for the soldier at the local military cemetary, and officals were involved. He runs his private collection as a museum (no entry fee, just bring a proper attitude and interest), which is advertised in the local area. Nothing is hidden. Even if it is illegal, then this would be due to a more recent law which wasn't around in the 1930s, and I'm guessing his collection would be grandfathered and therefore perfectly legit, for those who are wondering.

BS ...probably coming from an nice old man who did that so many times that he probably feel in his right ..but BS

In France it's totally prohibited to detent , handle or transport old war ammunitions or weapons . What he's doing on the picture is prohibited , even if the shell was neutralized , it's prohibited.
it's prohibited because we still have many dangerous area , especially the old ww1 battlefields.

Art. L. 2339-6.- Sont punies d'un emprisonnement de trois ans et d'une amende de 45 000 € l'acquisition ou la détention d'armes et de munitions en violation d'une interdiction prévue au IV de l'article L. 2336-4 ou au huitième alinéa de l'article L. 2336-5. »


http://www.admi.net/jo/20051130/INTD0500321D.html
http://www.assembleenationale.org/12/projets/pl2165.asp

[ClydeFrog]

Oh, when i read the title I thought someone had found some really, really old bottle of champagne ;)

Seriously though, nice pics. But having a working machinegun in ones basement is clearly a violation of several laws in Europe. He'd better give that thing to a museum or else he might get into serious trouble (esp. considering he's deliberately trying to "build" another one).

[camerashy]

Thanks for posting these photos! Posts like these are what makes militaryphotos.net so interesting.

[Freibier]

Great thread and pics, thanks for sharing ! :)

[stonecutter]

BS ...probably coming from an nice old man who did that so many times that he probably feel in his right ..but BS

In France it's totally prohibited to detent , handle or transport old war ammunitions or weapons . What he's doing on the picture is prohibited , even if the shell was neutralized , it's prohibited.


Funny, it seemed real enough when I saw the photos of the excavated skeleton and burial ceremony in the local newspaper clippings he had kept.

And, with regards to "what he's doing in the picture", when a farmer digs a waterline trench in his own backyard, since when does he get fined 45,000 Euros for finding an old German shell? The shell he's holding in the picture is garbage, he's not keeping it. Like I said, his actual collection, built since the 1930s, is probably grandfathered.

[stonecutter]

There is something quite special about handling a real piece of history. Last month, whilst doing some research at Edinburgh Castle, I had the opportunity to handle the French Eagle of the 45th Regiment captured at Waterloo by Sgt. Ewart of The 2nd Dragoons, I also handled Ewart's sword. My connection is that my 4g grandfather was in the 2nd Dragoons 1794-1814.

Sorry to go off topic on this, but I thought a couple of pix would be nice, especially with the French Napoleonic connection.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/HighlandSniper58/RSDG_Eagle-03.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/HighlandSniper58/RSDG_1796_patt-heavy-cavalry-sabre_.jpg
[Both pix © DW58]

Wow, that must have been incredible. Can't see the photos, though!

[stonecutter]

As promised at the very beginning of this thread, here are a few pics of Belleau Wood (or, Le Bois de la Brigade De Marine Americaine).

A shot of Belleau Wood in the distance (central hill in photo). It was incredible having a picnic in the French countryside, bottle of champagne (cheap, in this region!) in hand, surrounded by such amazing history...

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1680.jpg

A beautiful sculpture commemorating the Americans, and their role in this battle:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1679.jpg

Battle-scarred German artillery piece:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1678.jpg

Another battle-scarred German artillery piece:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1674.jpg

The odd shell hole in the woods:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1673.jpg

Entry to the memorial at the base of the hill:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1664.jpg

American cemetary:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1669.jpg

Thank you, America

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1672.jpg

[stonecutter]

Here is another interesting story and photo:

The man's father, who if you've followed this thread you will know was a poilu who had fought in the trenches, was captured by the Germans in 1918 and spent the rest of the war as a POW. The morning he was captured, however, his good friend was shot in the head by a German, and although gravely wounded, was lucky to find himself still alive. His buddies grouped around him and quickly brought him to medical attention, and his helmet, pierced by the bullet, was kept. The bullet had gone through the helmet, and taken a strip off the man's skull, exposing his brain. Incredibly, he ended up living until his 85th year, with a 'soft spot' along his head where the path of the bullet was covered only by a flap of skin.


Here is the helmet, with the entry and exit bullet holes visible:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/yamagatafan/IMG_1623.jpg

[stonecutter]

the pictures and the story shows that he did not find this shell by chance ... In that case , according to the law , he should call the gendarmerie (police)
but i guess you don't care of what could happen to your so-called friend ...
and i guess you don't have any permission from the same so-called friend to post here his personal picture...
yes you don't care , more interesting to become popular by posting these pictures...


Yes, I'm doing this not to share an interesting experience with like-minded people, but to have a popular nom de plume. WTF?


But perhaps you're right in some measure - so I deleted his photo. But you know, if I was really worried about what could happen to my acquaintance, then I'd have told him to stop advertising his museum all around, to stop letting tourists and locals take photos of him and all his stuff, and to just stop being so damn public about it. I assume after being able to keep his collection for 70+ years, he knows what he's doing. So instead of snivelling about it, why don't we just leave him alone to his business?

If anybody else thinks this thread should be deleted, mods please take note and act appropriately.

[Olybrius]

thxs , removing his photo is the right thing to do , all other stuff is very interesting.

(there is exactly the same kind of story in the first link i posted above, a very old and well known weapons collectors ... well known yes ...he hid more than 5 tons ammunitions )

[David Tate]

deleted cuz I changed my mind.

[James]

The disposal teams will respond to calls when very large or extremely dangerous items - e.g. chemical munitions - are found, or when in dangerous situations such as on construction sites, but the material routinely found in day-to-day activities in and around habitation and farms is normally just piled up at the side of the road and the "De-Miners" collect it next time they are passing.


Ja,

In 1996 I took a couple of weeks of leave from the USMC and went to France to tour some of our WWI battlefields - Chateau Thierry, Belleau Wood, Soissons, St. Mihiel, Blanc Mont, and the Argonne. I camped out a few times; once north of Suippes on top of Blanc Mont. Early the next morning I was hiking back to town to get some coffee and breakfast and figure out my next move. It was rainy and I had my poncho on. I was walking along, minding my business, and OMG!!! There was a pile of maybe half a dozen old 75 or 77 mm shells stacked on the shoulder of the road. Some farmer had dug them up and stacked them there for EOD to collect. It really caught my attention!

In my more recent experiences in A'Stan there are amazing amounts of old stuff in that country - many people think "Yeah, well the RUssians were there for a decade" but there's a lot of stuff that dates back to British misadventures in the 1850s!

Amazing.

[Bombtrack]

In my more recent experiences in A'Stan there are amazing amounts of old stuff in that country - many people think "Yeah, well the RUssians were there for a decade" but there's a lot of stuff that dates back to British misadventures in the 1850s!

Amazing.

A guy I know who served in A'stan went to a market and purchased one of the british muskets used in the campaigns in the 1850s with the markings still visible, it was really amazing to see

[DeltaWhisky58]

A guy I know who served in A'stan went to a market and purchased one of the british muskets used in the campaigns in the 1850s with the markings still visible, it was really amazing to see

I hope it is genuine. The gunsmiths in the Darra Bazaar in the tribal area of Pakistan are able to reproduce fantastic facsimiles of British weapons of the colonial period complete with authentic markings - when they are not making modern automatic weapons that is! Many of these found their way across the bordar into Afghanistan.

[Bombtrack]

I hope it is genuine. The gunsmiths in the Darra Bazaar in the tribal area of Pakistan are able to reproduce fantastic facsimiles of British weapons of the colonial period complete with authentic markings - when they are not making modern automatic weapons that is! Many of these found their way across the bordar into Afghanistan.

His job on civvie street is a high up position at Diemaco/Colt Canada so hopefully he can tell the difference, it would suck if its fake

[Lord Flashheart]

Interesteing indeed. I was at the Somme in 1996 and stumbled at a 84 mm (most probable) UXO at Hawthorn Ridge. Amazing.