Germans negative on Islam, poll shows

[Macs.]

Germans negative on Islam, poll shows

BERLIN - Germans are growing increasingly negative over Islam and concern is rising over the country's Muslim minority, a recently released poll shows.

"If one looks at this from a pessimistic viewpoint it could be seen as the start of a downward spiral toward conflict," said the Allensbach polling agency who conducted the survey for the Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper.

Asked if they though Christianity and Islamic could co-exist peacefully, 61 per cent of those surveyed said they believed there would always be "major conflicts" between both faiths.

Some 91 per cent said they associated Islam with oppression of women, up from 85 per cent in 2004.

The statement that Islam was dominated by fanaticism was shared by 83 per cent, compared to 75 per cent two years ago, the poll showed.
A total of 71 per cent said Islam was intolerant, up from 66 per cent in 2004.

Asked if there should be a ban on the building of mosques in Germany as long as the building of churches in some Islamic states is forbidden, 56 per cent agreed, said the poll.

There is even considerable backing for ending Germany's constitutional right of freedom of religion with regard to Islam, the poll showed.

Asked if strict limits should be imposed on the practice of Islam in Germany to protect the country, 40 per cent said they would support such moves.

A total of 56 per cent said they believed "a clash of civilizations" had already begun, up from 46 per cent in 2004, the poll results showed.

"The clash of civilizations has already begun in the minds of (German) citizens," concluded the Allensbach Institute.

There are about 3.5 million Muslims living in Germany out of a total population of 82 million. Turks are the biggest minority and number about 2.5 million.



http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=30134&name=Germans+negative+on+Islam%2C+poll+shows

No surpise...

[guard2.bn]

well, really no suprise and understandable

[Kilgor]

Well, according to the left its only americans and their allies that hold negative attitutes toward muslims.

[bigvig]

Well, no ****ing ****. It's true.

[Bert]

I don't blame them.

[Blumenteufel]

Hopefully this survey will get the attention of mass media, I´m curious what an impact it will have.
It will probably end up with someone playing the racism-card and the rest of the opportunist media / politicians will back off and use the usual reflexes "never again / uh-oh-multiculturalism / it´s not that bad"
Sure, the attitude shown in this survey does many fine muslim citizens unjust, but when there are too many ****ing things up and spreading hate,
the results are definately no surprise.
I personally strongly dislike the self-righteousness of a religion whose two main wings are most of the time busy fighting each other or cursing death upon my western style of life.
To sum it up, i feel bull****ted by the Muslim world and i don´t buy their ongoing victimization anymore....Taquiya (sp) anyone?

[bigvig]

****, what the hell is going on?

If the majority of Germans feel this way....then stop the immigration of muslims into your country and also start kicking them out.

It ain't that hard. Vote.

[Luno]

****, what the hell is going on?

If the majority of Germans feel this way....then stop the immigration of muslims into your country and also start kicking them out.

It ain't that hard. Vote.

yes it is quite hard because some of them are German citizen so they same right to live there as you do..

[Kaapeli]

****, what the hell is going on?

If the majority of Germans feel this way....then stop the immigration of muslims into your country and also start kicking them out.

It ain't that hard. Vote.

Not that hard? Think about it for a second: Discriminating immigrants because of their religion and kicking people (most of them citizens) out for the same reason? In GERMANY of all places in the world?

[kinghk]

Not that hard? Think about it for a second: Discriminating immigrants because of their religion and kicking people (most of them citizens) out for the same reason? In GERMANY of all places in the world?

They have already outlawed nazism, can't be that hard to outlaw islam too.

[Kaapeli]

They have already outlawed nazism, can't be that hard to outlaw islam too.

No they haven't.

[kinghk]

No they haven't.

Try to show a swastika or do a nazi salute in Berlin and see what happends.

[Luno]

Try to show a swastika or do a nazi salute in Berlin and see what happends.

So comparing Muslims with Nazis is ok ?

[DeltaWhisky58]

They have already outlawed nazism, can't be that hard to outlaw islam too.

What totally ignorant and inane comment. Islam is a religion/culture with over a thousand years of history and heritage behind it and hundreds of millions of followers.

Bearing in mind that Germany has a huge population of Turkish and other Muslim people most of whom are totally law-abiding, I fail to see the grounding for such a comment. Only the nazis have ever tried such a ridiculous idea and look where it got them.

Think very carefully before answering.

[Resurrection]

There's a difference between stopping immigration and restricting it.

[Kaapeli]

Try to show a swastika or do a nazi salute in Berlin and see what happends.

Yes. Nazi symbols and propaganda are banned.
But not the ideology. There are even political parties in Germany considered neo-nazi.

But back to the topic: Banning Islam and deporting people because of their religion in Germany is impossible. They'd have the entire world shouting nazi and new holocaust in their ears in no time.
Remember when an anti-imigration rightwing party won the elections in Austria? There was a huge outcry and they were quickly smoked out by the rest of the European community as nazi's.

[Bernardo]

Yes. Nazi symbols and propaganda are banned.
But not the ideology. There are even political parties in Germany considered neo-nazi.

But back to the topic: Banning Islam and deporting people because of their religion in Germany is impossible. They'd have the entire world shouting nazi and new holocaust in their ears in no time.
Remember when an anti-imigration rightwing party won the elections in Austria? There was a huge outcry and they were quickly smoked out by the rest of the European community as nazi's.


Because European's are ****ing whimps. They should throw every single muslim out of Germany and the rest of Europe, and no one should dare comparing such an action to 'naziism' or a new holocaust. Are you ****ing kidding me??? Throwing out criminals is not the same as a holocaust. And yes, you can very well compare an extremist muslim to a nazi.

And also, stop showing the nazi card every ****ing time. It's over. It's past. The germans aren't born with a nazi-gene. Every ****ing country in the world would have ended the same way as germany has, if a leader such as Hitler would have been at the power. It has been shown in countless experiments.

[tsuri]

Nazism is not earned through Birth but through Actions.

Freedom of Religion is absolute. If we start making concessions there, maybe tomorrow a little torture is ok and next week murder is not half as bad..

Scepticism is legitimate, especially this time. Banning and throwing people out will not achieve anything. You only create followers of those you fight.

[shire19]

It's understandable considering the circumstances but fortunatly the German govermnent and the Muslim communities inside Germany are working to eradicate the show of ignorance and lack of intergration (if there was any) by working together.

VIENNA, May 29, 2006 (IslamOnline.net) – The central German city of Bonn plays host in September to a conference bringing together German officials and Muslim leaders at an initiative from the Interior Ministry to draw up a "social contract" that helps boost Muslim integration into society.

"The proposed social contract seeks to promote mutual understanding between the German Muslims and the state as we all live in one country," Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told the weekly Welt am Sonntag, which hit newsstands on Sunday, May 28.

He said the contract enhances cooperation between the Muslim minority and the government, and helps restore mutual confidence.

"The new contract stresses the importance of respecting German constitution and the western democratic values," added Schaeuble.

The minister noted that the document addresses some problems facing Muslims vis-à-vis practice of religion.

Schaeuble said the leaders of five leading Muslim organizations in Germany and 10 prominent Muslim figures will be invited to attend the conference along with 15 German officials.
Rest (http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2006-05/29/article03.shtml)


BERLIN, April 27, 2006 (IslamOnline.net) – The German Interior Ministry is sponsoring a mobile exhibition touring the country to draw the line between Islam as a faith and the practices of some Muslims.

The drive aims to distinguish between Islam as a religion that preaches peace and tolerance and parties condoning violence in the name of Islam, said the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, the sponsor.

It added that the exhibition also seeks to highlight the dangers posed by what it called "Islamist extremists".

The "Die Missbrauchte Religion Islamisten in Deutschland" exhibition would visit universities, schools, parliaments, municipalities and cultural centers in the different states.

Launched on Tuesday, April 25, it targets both Muslims and non-Muslims, especially students, to highlight the true image of Islam.

The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, an interior ministry affiliate, is responsible for gathering, processing and analyzing information about terrorist activities in Germany.
Rest (http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2006-04/27/article02.shtml)

[Kaapeli]

Because European's are ****ing whimps. They should throw every single muslim out of Germany and the rest of Europe, and no one should dare comparing such an action to 'naziism' or a new holocaust. Are you ****ing kidding me??? Throwing out criminals is not the same as a holocaust. And yes, you can very well compare an extremist muslim to a nazi.


I'm speechless...

And also, stop showing the nazi card every ****ing time. It's over. It's past. The germans aren't born with a nazi-gene. Every ****ing country in the world would have ended the same way as germany has, if a leader such as Hitler would have been at the power. It has been shown in countless experiments.

It's not me who's doing it. Most of the world is on it's toes when even the slightest racisms and intolerance is detected in Germany or anywhere in the western world. Including germans themselves.

[Resurrection]

It's pretty difficult to "integrate" those who refuse to learn the language. Don't know if the problem is as big in Germany though, any help?

[kinghk]

What totally ignorant and inane comment. Islam is a religion/culture with over a thousand years of history and heritage behind it and hundreds of millions of followers.

Bearing in mind that Germany has a huge population of Turkish and other Muslim people most of whom are totally law-abiding, I fail to see the grounding for such a comment. Only the nazis have ever tried such a ridiculous idea and look where it got them.

Think very carefully before answering.

Interesting. In the German state of Hessen there is according to the security police about 250 groups with 8300 fanatic muslims, compared to about 3000 extreme "right"-wingers and about the same number of extreme left wingers.

The limit for what that is acceptable speech and behaviour for this groups differs a lot, but the neo-nazis have the lowest limit for what the police will tolerate. You'll find imans who encourage war on infidels and muslims who openly support the 7/7 London terrorists. Imagine what will happend if a neo-nazi leader publicly supported Holocaust in comparison... How come the limit for hate speech from muslims is so much higher than for what neo-nazis might say in public? How come the German government bans neo-nazis movements and politically parties, but not mosques with fanatical imans?

And how many of the neo-nazis are really criminals? Silently supporting neo-nazism is not a crime. Nor rallying as long as you don't bring a nazi flag or do the nazi salute.

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub28FC768942F34C5B8297CC6E16FFC8B4/Doc~EC5A1DEC54E9547F3A4227ED6F2FAABDB~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

[kinghk]

But not the ideology. There are even political parties in Germany considered neo-nazi.


The German government has banned several parties because they were considered neo-nazi.


Remember when an anti-imigration rightwing party won the elections in Austria? There was a huge outcry and they were quickly smoked out by the rest of the European community as nazi's.

The party is named Austrian Freedom Party, and "won the elections" would be stretching it a bit far, they got 27% of the votes in 1999.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Freedom_Party

[Bernardo]

I'm speechless...

Speechless why? Because I'm writing the truth? What differences do you see between the holocaust and the entire idea behind it, and an extremist muslim who thinks the same way, who wants to eradicate the infidels from this world, with any means possible... ?



It's not me who's doing it. Most of the world is on it's toes when even the slightest racisms and intolerance is detected in Germany or anywhere in the western world. Including germans themselves.


I apologize if it sounded like I was directing it to you ... As you put it, it's the world that does it, the germans themselves, and it's getting old ...

[DeltaWhisky58]

Interesting. In the German state of Hessen there is according to the security police about 250 groups with 8300 fanatic muslims, compared to about 3000 extreme "right"-wingers and about the same number of extreme left wingers.

The limit for what that is acceptable speech and behaviour for this groups differs a lot, but the neo-nazis have the lowest limit for what the police will tolerate. You'll find imans who encourage war on infidels and muslims who openly support the 7/7 London terrorists. Imagine what will happend if a neo-nazi leader publicly supported Holocaust in comparison... How come the limit for hate speech from muslims is so much higher than for what neo-nazis might say in public? How come the German government bans neo-nazis movements and politically parties, but not mosques with fanatical imans?

And how many of the neo-nazis are really criminals? Silently supporting neo-nazism is not a crime. Nor rallying as long as you don't bring a nazi flag or do the nazi salute.

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub28FC768942F34C5B8297CC6E16FFC8B4/Doc~EC5A1DEC54E9547F3A4227ED6F2FAABDB~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

... ... and your point is? What exactly are you trying to say here - are you putting forward your anti-Islamic views, pro-nazi views or is it both?

Oh, and BTW - if you did your research thoroughly, I think you'd find that the Islamic term is Imam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam), and not Iman.

[shire19]

Because European's are ****ing whimps. They should throw every single muslim out of Germany and the rest of Europe, and no one should dare comparing such an action to 'naziism' or a new holocaust. Are you ****ing kidding me??? Throwing out criminals is not the same as a holocaust. And yes, you can very well compare an extremist muslim to a nazi.


So every single Muslim in Europe is a criminal now? :cantbeli:

[DeltaWhisky58]

WARNING

This thread is getting into dangerous territory - I will have no hesitation about locking it down and taking action against errant members - be careful.

[Bert]

... ... and your point is? What exactly are you trying to say here - are you putting forward your anti-Islamic views, pro-nazi views or is it both?

Oh, and BTW - if you did your research thoroughly, I think you'd find that the Islamic term is Imam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam), and not Iman.
As far as I can see, he's trying to illustrate that freedom of speech is a different definition for each group - according to him, the neo-nazis are treated as more dangerous than the fundamentalist muslims.

[Kaapeli]

Speechless why? Because I'm writing the truth? What differences do you see between the holocaust and the entire idea behind it, and an extremist muslim who thinks the same way, who wants to eradicate the infidels from this world, with any means possible... ?

My loss of words was more due to the suggestion to deport all muslims and comparing them to criminals.
Now I'm not a fan of Islam or any religion for that matter but I find this demand very disturbing. Not to enter the nazi-debate again but persecution based solely on religion happened around 60 years ago in Germany and it wasn't pretty.

[DeltaWhisky58]

As far as I can see, he's trying to illustrate that freedom of speech is a different definition for each group - according to him, the neo-nazis are treated as more dangerous than the fundamentalist muslims.

I'm sure he can provide his own answers - OK?

[Nagelfar]

The Muslims harvest what they seed.
The poll mostly poits out what older and middle aged Germans think about Muslims (mostly Turks). Ask the younger ones they are really fed up.

[kinghk]

... ... and your point is? What exactly are you trying to say here


The Germans government will tolerate more hatred coming from muslims compared to what neo-nazis might say in public. It goes for most of Europe I guess, but the Germans differs due to the fact that they have banned several political parties and the nazi flag / salute, but not radical islam in any way (or any other type of totalitarian politics for that matter). You are free to support terrorism, but you'll open a big can of whop-ass if you support state terrorism / war crimes / ethnic cleansing done during the nazi era.


Oh, and BTW - if you did your research thoroughly, I think you'd find that the Islamic term is Imam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam), and not Iman.

This is a question of my English skills, not knowledge of islam.

[Esszett]

The Germans government will tolerate more hatred coming from muslims compared to what neo-nazis might say in public. It goes for most of Europe I guess, but the Germans differs due to the fact that they have banned several political parties and the nazi flag / salute, but not radical islam in any way (or any other type of totalitarian politics for that matter). You are free to support terrorism, but you'll open a big can of whop-ass if you support state terrorism / war crimes / ethnic cleansing done during the nazi era.


Not true. There are numerous parties/ organizations which are forbidden in Germany and which don't have anything to do with Nazism.
Some examples would be: all (openly) communist parties, the Kurdish PKK and several extreme left-wing organizations.
These are just some examples that came to my mind instantly.

Furthermore I don't think that the German state is more tolerant towards Islamic extremists than towards Neo-Nazis.
The Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for Protection of the Constitution) deals with all threads to the constitutional order equally.
And you are definately not free to support terrorism here in Germany. If you do (and get noticed) you better get prepared for some serious trouble.

[RS_Leo1A5]

Silently supporting neo-nazism is not a crime.
Should read: Silently supporting neo-nazism is unfortunately not a crime.
Otherwise it would be easy to put the f*ckers where they belong: prison.

[Wodan]

Should read: Silently supporting neo-nazism is unfortunately not a crime.
Otherwise it would be easy to put the f*ckers where they belong: prison.

now you should ask yourself who´s the fascist...

[haschmich]

no wonder, because there is no independent media in germany and noone dares to speak pro islam. when you just watch the news on television and read the newspaper headlines, you will start thinking islamists are only one tiny step away from taking over germany and start new holocausts. this unbalanced and unfair view makes me kind of angry.

[Esszett]

no wonder, because there is no independent media in germany and noone dares to speak pro islam. when you just watch the news on television and read the newspaper headlines, you will start thinking islamists are only one tiny step away from taking over germany and start new holocausts. this unbalanced and unfair view makes me kind of angry.

Huh? What kind of TV-news are you watching/ what kind of newspapers do you read? I never got that impression and I'm watching TV-news/ reading newspapers quite often.
And no independent media? So who's controlling it?

[haschmich]

Huh? What kind of TV-news are you watching/ what kind of newspapers do you read? I never got that impression and I'm watching TV-news/ reading newspapers quite often.
And no independent media? So who's controlling it?
the media business controlls itself. in germany there is that great saying of "Linker Meinungsterror", that is exactly the kind of influence/controlling i am talking about. all german media have more or less the same political attitude, they all blow in the same horn. that is because there are only very few media business moguls in germany who keep their thumb on who gets into management positions and whos the new editorial staff etc. I am very eager to see how german media as a whole will change when foreign investors take over some businesses. i appreciate those foreigners they have to bring fresh air to todays contraproductiv opinion cartel.

[Esszett]

the media business controlls itself. in germany there is that great saying of "Linker Meinungsterror", that is exactly the kind of influence/controlling i am talking about. all german media have more or less the same political attitude, they all blow in the same horn. that is because there are only very few media business moguls in germany who keep their thumb on who gets into management positions and whos the new editorial staff etc. I am very eager to see how german media as a whole will change when foreign investors take over some businesses. i appreciate those foreigners they have to bring fresh air to todays contraproductiv opinion cartel.

First of all, let me tell you that I am not a big fan of foreign investors taking over our media. There are good reasons why such things are strictly restricted in the USA and many other countries of the world.

And why would "linker Meinungsterror" paint an anti-Islam picture?
Last time I checked all left-wing parties in Germany were very much "pro-Islam(ism)" and pro-(the more the better) immigration.

[Wodan]

have to agree with eszett, and I also think, that foreign investors such as Haim Saban are even worse for our country, than Bertelsmann, Springer&co.

[guard2.bn]

considering the current economic situation in germany they should stop immigration (not only for muslems) and yes they should deport those who refuse to learn the language and those who commit crimes

[haschmich]

have to agree with eszett, and I also think, that foreign investors such as Haim Saban are even worse for our country, than Bertelsmann, Springer&co.no i dont think so. in the long term, germany will benefit from that process. i expect the foreign investors to break up that existing cronyism (Vetternwirtschaft) in chief editor positions for example. i hope they will make it more of a "the best gets the job" than todays "the guy with the correct political attitude gets it". once that cartel is defeated, theres no urgent need for those investors any more, so you can be happy too =)

[Blumenteufel]

Cartels are not defeated when they are being taken over by someone else and thereby joint into an even larger one.

I have similar thoughts about the "conformism" in todays german media be it due to the paranoic fear of being branded as nazi or just because it´s easier to hop on the popular opinion bandwagon.
Left wing media is definately not anti-islam, it is reporting about what is going
on in the world and currently immigration and the frictions with the muslim world have the most attention. I am glad that currently also the immigration
debate has gained momentum since there are too many things wrong with this issue which is made up of german xenophobia, overly-idealistic preachers of a multi-cultural society, immigrants who you can live door to door and are an enrichment for Germany and then those who do NOT want to take part.

EDIT:

I see this poll as a result of the shortcomings in immigration made by left and right wingers and fellas like the Kalif of Cologne it has spawned. Those who keep on apologizing and portraying all immigrants as the eternal victim are not the ones running into gangs of turks at night when going out. But hey..the 68ers are taking their last breaths as we speak..err..type

[haschmich]

Cartels are not defeated when they are being taken over by someone else and thereby joint into an even larger one. that really is not making much sense because cartels vitaly need loyality of its members (plural! there is no single monopolist whos been taken over) and when a new foreign owner "infiltrates" that cartel and changes their old fixed rules, the cartel will have a very hard time to survive. thats simple economics.

[Esszett]

I see this poll as a result of the shortcomings in immigration made by left and right wingers and fellas like the Kalif of Cologne it has spawned. Those who keep on apologizing and portraying all immigrants as the eternal victim are not the ones running into gangs of turks at night when going out. But hey..the 68ers are taking their last breaths as we speak..err..type

Good post, I agree for the most part.

[Stolly]

Because European's are ****ing whimps. They should throw every single muslim out of Germany and the rest of Europe

By that measure Americans are whimps too, since i don't know of any efforts to throw out Muslims from America. In fact, you must be limp wristed girly men as well since you can't even seem to deal with the Mexicans.

[bigvig]

They have already outlawed nazism, can't be that hard to outlaw islam too.
LMFAO....not too many differences in either, is there?

Hope they ban the reprinting of the koran in Germany a few years from now just like Mein Kampf is banned now.

[Urzza]

Ummm... Maybe I'm misssing something here, but....

There are about 3.5 million Muslims living in Germany out of a total population of 82 million. Turks are the biggest minority and number about 2.5 million.


If there are 3.5m Muslims and 2.5m Turks, why are the Turks the biggest minority?

[Macs.]

If there are 3.5m Muslims and 2.5m Turks, why are the Turks the biggest minority?

I don't really get it...

There are 3.5 Million Muslims of which are 2.5 Million are Turks.

[Blumenteufel]

Umm, i read it as in: 3,5 Million Muslims, minus 2,5 Million Turks ( = Muslims) resulting in 1 Million Non-Turkish Muslims living in Germany

[Urzza]

Thing is, I read it as this:
In Germany, there are 3.5m Muslims.
In Germany, there are 2.5m Turks.

[afrographX]

From the recently released "Verfassungsschutzbericht" (Report from the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution):

In 2005 there have been 15.361 politically motivated crimes commited by right wing extremists, 2.305 politically motivated crimes commited by left wing extremists. No politically or religiously motivated crimes commited by Islamic extremists are listed most likely because they did not happen.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And guard2.bn (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=16415) please explain how a stop of immigration could improve the economical situation in Germany. 40 years ago the Germans invited all the Turkish folk because nobody wanted to do the jobs requiring only low qualification. Nowadays immigrents are still doing mostly the poorly paid work that none of our German "Hartz-IV" recipients want to do!

Immigrents do not steal our jobs in fact they help keeping our economy running!

So stop talking ****

[Bert]

Thing is, I read it as this:
In Germany, there are 3.5m Muslims.
In Germany, there are 2.5m Turks.
In Turkey, 99% of the population is Muslim. Therefore, one can logically assume that the Turkish population in Germany is also 99% Muslim.

[haschmich]

From the recently released "Verfassungsschutzbericht" (Report from the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution):

In 2005 there have been 15.361 poltically motivated crimes commited by right wing extremists, 4.898 poltically motivated crimes commited by left wing extremists. No politically motivated crimes commited by Islamic extremists are listed most likely because they did not happen. 15.361 "right wing extremistic crimes"? wow. hmmm. but maybe you should also mention that in germany, making the Hitlergruss, owning Landser-Musik, playing at least the MELODY of Horst-Wessel Lied, showing a portrait of Hitler, showing the Hakenkreuz, using "germany for germans!" or "throw the turks out!" as demonstration signs and more of that quality is also considered a "crime" and is listed in those 15.361 numbers.

[guard2.bn]

From the recently released "Verfassungsschutzbericht" (Report from the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution):

In 2005 there have been 15.361 politically motivated crimes commited by right wing extremists, 2.305 politically motivated crimes commited by left wing extremists. No politically or religiously motivated crimes commited by Islamic extremists are listed most likely because they did not happen.

lol, are you ****ing kidding me? no religiously motivated crimes commited by islamic extremists? wow what a disgrace to all the victims of the so called honor killings


And guard2.bn (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=16415) please explain how a stop of immigration could improve the economical situation in Germany. 40 years ago the Germans invited all the Turkish folk because nobody wanted to do the jobs requiring only low qualification. Nowadays immigrents are still doing mostly the poorly paid work that none of our German "Hartz-IV" recipients want to do!

Immigrents do not steal our jobs in fact they help keeping our economy running!

So stop talking ****
you have what? 4 million unemployed, you let more people in the country, what should they do for their living?

and the "dirty" jobs you are refering to are done by guestworkers, mostly from poland, you know the difference between guestworkers and immigrants? why are they doing it? for the local standards they got a lousy pay, but for their standards, well it's not a fortune but it's worth doing the job

[tsuri]

40 years ago the Germans invited all the Turkish folk because nobody wanted to do the jobs requiring only low qualification
No
Because there were not enough people. The part with the jobs nobody wanted to do came later but was merely an apology for getting millions of workers in the wake of technological progress.


If there are 3.5m Muslims and 2.5m Turks, why are the Turks the biggest minority?

Because beeing a muslim does not make you a minority. Turks are an ethnic minority.
Religion is your private business and people could care less if you are hinduist, christian or whatever you feel like.

Hope they ban the reprinting of the koran in Germany a few years from now just like Mein Kampf is banned now.

Mein Kampf is not exactly banned. The state of Bavaria has the copyright and does not allow third party reprints. They make commented reprints as educational material
Here, you can even buy the Audio CD
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3902028424/qid=1149028087/sr=8-3/ref=pd_ka_3/302-8718224-7900029

[Esszett]

Mein Kampf is not exactly banned. The state of Bavaria has the copyright and does not allow third party reprints. They make commented reprints as educational material
Here, you can even buy the Audio CD
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3902028424/qid=1149028087/sr=8-3/ref=pd_ka_3/302-8718224-7900029

Yep, it's more of a copyright issue than an actual "banning". Since Hitler didn't leave any heirs the rights of "Mein Kampf" are now owned by the Bavarian state.
From what I know after German law the copyright lasts for 70 years after the death of the original "producer". So in 2015 it should be possible to anyone to publish copies of "Mein Kampf" in Germany.

[Urzza]

In Turkey, 99% of the population is Muslim. Therefore, one can logically assume that the Turkish population in Germany is also 99% Muslim.

Aaah, gotcha'. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Macs.]

you have what? 4 million unemployed, you let more people in the country, what should they do for their living?


The immigration-numbers in germany are pretty low these days, afaik they are in a decades-low.

[Versace]

The immigration-numbers in germany are pretty low these days, afaik they are in a decades-low.


So is your birth rate, whats the solution ?

[Macs.]

So is your birth rate, whats the solution ?

We are overpopulated anyway... ;-)

[Ayura]

What an intellectually thought-provoking thread. Wow - some of you members really do provide some amazing comments...haha.

[Vandervahn]

It was mentioned earlier that several rightwing parties are banned in Germany while muslim groups supporting Islamisms are not.

First, this isnt true, there are several Islamist groups that are forbidden, or closely monitored. The difference however is that those banned Nazi or right-wing parties were banned because they broke the German Political Party Law, which states that any party has to recognize the Constitution and the ideals outlined in the Constitution as Supreme Rule.

That is the reason why parties get banned - they overly acted against the german Constitution and the Party Law, and not because their general orientation would be unacceptable.

[Enigma]

What an intellectually thought-provoking thread. Wow - some of you members really do provide some amazing comments...haha.

hahaha And one of my favorites:

Because European's are ****ing whimps. They should throw every single muslim out of Germany and the rest of Europe, and no one should dare comparing such an action to 'naziism' or a new holocaust. Are you ****ing kidding me??? Throwing out criminals is not the same as a holocaust. And yes, you can very well compare an extremist muslim to a nazi.


Yes and they should also throw every single Italian out of America and the rest of North America because they are bootlegging criminals who associate with international mafia rings! ~this isn’t my attempt to defend the extremist Muslims, my analogy proves my failure to make a distinction between law abiding Italians and no good Italians.

Note: Please accept my apologies if my comment sounds harsh or offends you in any manner that was certainly not my agenda!

[guard2.bn]

The immigration-numbers in germany are pretty low these days, afaik they are in a decades-low.

depends on how you define "immigrant"

allowance to stay in the country?
green card?
citizenship?

but theres still one thing, muslems are not the only kind of people who live in germany, but supprisingly you never hear anything about "immigrants"/guestworker from greek, spain, israel, italy, ....

i'm sure ayura is gonna tell me that it's the german society's fault ...:roll:

[Warlord]

depends on how you define "immigrant"

allowance to stay in the country?
green card?
citizenship?

but theres still one thing, muslems are not the only kind of people who live in germany, but supprisingly you never hear anything about "immigrants"/guestworker from greek, spain, israel, italy, ....

i'm sure ayura is gonna tell me that it's the german society's fault ...:roll:


Ayura is an apologist. So it's always someone elses fault.

[Firetxmi]

but theres still one thing, muslems are not the only kind of people who live in germany, but supprisingly you never hear anything about "immigrants"/guestworker from greek, spain, israel, italy, ....

i'm sure ayura is gonna tell me that it's the german society's fault ...:roll:

Probably the "liberal media's" fault! :roll:

[tsuri]

i'm sure ayura is gonna tell me that it's the german society's fault ...

It is actually. German Society is too European.
The Italians or Greece hardly disturb anyone because they are european like us. Same Religion, largely the same values.
The Turks did not share churches with their German neighbours and their culture is in large parts very different from ours which resulted in isolation and non integration

[ed316]

What about Asians in German society are they isolated and refuse integration?

[Macs.]

What about Asians in German society are they isolated and refuse integration?

There are not that many Asian immigrants here, but the Asians I know are all good guys, and integrated pretty damn well. (Speaking perfect german, having german friends etc)

Like tsuri said... There are hardly any real immigration problems with people from other European countries, or countries which share the same "way of life".

People who want to integrated, are getting integrated.

[ed316]

Thanx for the info Macs.

[Warlord]

If I was in Germany, I would still eat my fish raw just to piss em off and I'm Catholic to so my going to church would offend the secular Germans a great deal.

[Blumenteufel]

I´m technically Catholic and I love Sushi, drop me a line when you´re in Germany and we´ll have some raw fish along with beer brewed by Catholic Monks.

[Resurrection]

What about Asians in German society are they isolated and refuse integration?
Asians are generally from what I've seen very good at integrating - they actually want to become a contributing part of their new society.

[guard2.bn]

Asians are generally from what I've seen very good at integrating - they actually want to become a contributing part of their new society.

if you immigrate to a country that should be something you want to do, i don't understand why these people immigrate if they hate their hosts culture, religion, people, everything ...

[Ezekiel25:17]

Like someone mention here already. It's the welfare system. Why work and learn the language when you can sit on your ass and wait for the gubment checks every month?

[Resurrection]

if you immigrate to a country that should be something you want to do, i don't understand why these people immigrate if they hate their hosts culture, religion, people, everything ...

Sure, but we both know how far from reality that is.

[Warlord]

I´m technically Catholic and I love Sushi, drop me a line when you´re in Germany and we´ll have some raw fish along with beer brewed by Catholic Monks.

I thought I'd be RMM'd by now.

Too bad. I was in Cologne (Koln or colon) 3 weeks back. Probably on next years trip.

[tsuri]

Like someone mention here already. It's the welfare system. Why work and learn the language when you can sit on your ass and wait for the gubment checks every month?

Only German Citizens get Welfare. To become a German Citizen you must work for X years without getting any money from the state ;)

[Kaapeli]

Like someone mention here already. It's the welfare system. Why work and learn the language when you can sit on your ass and wait for the gubment checks every month?

Do you think it's easy living to support a family on welfare? Do you have any idea how much it is?

Here there aren't even enough language courses for all the immigrants who want to learn to language because of budget cuts. And it takes up to a year of studying under a qualified teacher to learn the language enough to get employment.

[Vandervahn]

Only German Citizens get Welfare. To become a German Citizen you must work for X years without getting any money from the state ;)

Not entirely correct. Everyone who is allowed to stay in germany is also eligible for basic welfare services. Of course most immigrants wont be allowed to stay if they cannot sustain their own after a certain time, there are however other cases like recognized asylum seekers.

[Pvt.Anderson]

Those who keep on apologizing and portraying all immigrants as the eternal victim are not the ones running into gangs of turks at night when going out. But hey..the 68ers are taking their last breaths as we speak..err..type

This is exactly the way it goes ... especially the gang thing :rolleyes:

Btw how do you want to integrate people that don't even want to integrate , that don't even want to learn the country's language cause there are places like for example in Berlin where they don't need to know german ?
Those who don't want to integrate should be sent straight back home

Once more I do recommend to watch this :
http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/magazin/0,1518,409540,00.html

->then go "Graue Wölfe an Kölner Schulen - Türkische Extremisten unterwandern Unterricht"
->Beitrag ansehen

->Get an idea of the ****ed situation

[guard2.bn]

Only German Citizens get Welfare. To become a German Citizen you must work for X years without getting any money from the state ;)

they don't get ALGI or ALGII or HARZIV but they do get financial support
remember the kalif of cologne? he was on welfare and they found millions stuffed in bags in his appartement, well at least he failed to build up his own little islamic state within germany

did they finaly deport him back to turkey? he's a murderer or at least responsible for the killing of a politician and germany says they cant deport him becaus he woudln't get a fair trial and he would probably face death penalty

[guard2.bn]

This is exactly the way it goes ... especially the gang thing :rolleyes:

Btw how do you want to integrate people that don't even want to integrate , that don't even want to learn the country's language cause there are places like for example in Berlin where they don't need to know german ?
Those who don't want to integrate should be sent straight back home

Once more I do recommend to watch this :
http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/magazin/0,1518,409540,00.html

->then go "Graue Wölfe an Kölner Schulen - Türkische Extremisten unterwandern Unterricht"
->Beitrag ansehen

->Get an idea of the ****ed situation

yeah or the one story where they beat up that kid and told him to **** off because "heres only for arabs" but i'm sure thats also german society's fault

[Pvt.Anderson]

yeah or the one story where they beat up that kid and told him to **** off because "heres only for arabs" but i'm sure thats also german society's fault


Of course it's also the fault of the society , in Germany there's generally a lack of patriotism which i can't really understand , see alone the proposal of translating the national anthem and allow it to be sung in turkish is more than ridiculous to me - Would be nice to know if the turks in turkey would EVEN TALK about translating it into the german language ( of course it's another situation because there aren't that much german imigrants ) but , believe me , they wouldn't waste a second since they are way too proud of their country and culture .
IMO germany is far too tolerant towards any kind of imigrants , an example for this is the Rütli school in Berlin , where kids doom their teachers , police needs to obey them while the lessons in all that ... they make us look like fools because they are able to and making best the best uses of our exagerated tolerance , you can notice that concerning not only the social but also the law system .
It will be going so far and in certain areas it already is the case that they feel like the kings in our country while we stand beside and applaud , gute Nacht Deutschland !