Photos of Fridtjof Nansen class frigate

[e_rik]

Posts some pictures of the new Norwegian Fridtjof Nansen class frigate.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/469/fridtjofnansen18ss.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/1652/fridtjofnansen26fe.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7379/fridtjofnansen30zb.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/8018/fridtjofnansen43ek.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/7117/fridtjofnansen50dz.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/409/fridtjofnansen66ee.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/4783/fridtjofnansen79cy.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3615/fridtjofnansen87vp.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3928/fridtjofnansen99ez.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/2005/fridtjofnansen104rj.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4841/fridtjofnansen111tw.jpg
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/2633/fridtjofnansen127fs.jpg

Some specs:

Max speed: 28 knots+
Cruising Speed: 18 knots
Length Overall: 132.0 m
Maximum Beam: 16.80 m
Full Load Displacement Incl. Margins: 5121 tonnes
Complement: 120 (Accommodation Capacity 146)
Max Height Above Water Line: 31.0 m

Weapons: Main Gun: 76 mm OTO BREDA SR Small caliber Gun: 12,7 mm ASW weapons: Stingray Light weight torpedos, Depth Charges AAW weapon: Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile MK 41 VLS ASuW weapon: NSM Anti Ship Missile Soft kill weapons: Terma Decoy launcherIR decoy, radar and acoustic decoy

More info: http://www.mil.no/fregatter/start/english/ http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/nansen.htm

[Resurrection]

So the bridge is painted blue...?

[Bert]

Så, har sosialistene latt Sjøforsvaret kjøpe våpen til disse skipene, eller skal de brukes som fiskefartøy?

Anyways, they do look nice. It's no good without missiles, though, is it?

[JoaMei]

Damn nice Ship!

[zepic]

Bra jobbat Norge:D

[twominds]

They do come fully equipped but the socialist have forced the military to investigate the possibilities for renting two out or even keeping two in long term dry dock, as they feel five frigates are to many. These vessels are a crucial and necessary upgrade to our navy in order for us to control and govern our oceans and have a military capacity to face modern challenges..

[EsoognomEhT]

Did someone forget the radar array and then have to stick it on when the rest of the ship was finished? :E

[TR1]

the top looks completely retarded...otherwise the ship appears very capable.woot

[Pille1234]

The big top mast makes it look bigger than it actually is. Wonder how seaworthy the ship is with its top weight or maybe it is just the optic impression.

[Ratamacue]

The big top mast makes it look bigger than it actually is. Wonder how seaworthy the ship is with its top weight or maybe it is just the optic impression.I wouldn't worry about it too much. Look at how top-heavy aicraft carriers appear. Yet they're often the most stable ships in the fleet.

[Heron]

the top looks completely retarded...otherwise the ship appears very capable.woot
x 2
.

[budanski]

Wait, I thought stealth technology was dead... ;)

Nice ship.

[signatory]

Thanks for posting !

It may look silly but capability wise it's very impressive.. radar guys know what I mean. In short, a long detection range and 360 coverage area while itself keeping a low signature. Very good for Norwegian defense.

[grabie]

Pretty vessel, made in Spain by Navantia.

[twominds]

part of the idea of the design is that it would be easy to replace and upgrade any part of the ship, including the radar dome. Those who know modern naval vessel design, know that all modern vessels are built so that entire sections can easily be removed and replaced with new and functioning ones in order to quickly repair battle damage or upgrade ships. and even though it looks top heavy, there isn't much weight up there, so doesn't influence the stability. the higher it sits the better range and longer horizont it gets. that's the idea.. still feel it is a clean and beautiful design.

[OldRecon]

The radar a variant of the AEGIS fixed array system?
And NSM still not ready?
(Love that story about Norwegians demonstrating the Penguin missile for US dignitaries with a test shot in the waters near Cape Kennedy, when one of the missiles went astray :lol: )

[twominds]

yeah, the radar and combatmanagementsystems are AEGIS. missiles are supposed to be NSM, but not sure where they are in development. might have to have a mix of missiles in the bays until it is done..

[Bert]

Just about every new boat and ship looks like it's wearing a party hat. It's not Navantia's fault.

[dedgod]

yeah, the radar and combatmanagementsystems are AEGIS. missiles are supposed to be NSM, but not sure where they are in development. might have to have a mix of missiles in the bays until it is done..

What is it with Aegis equipped warships that they need to appear top heavy?
Is it a requirement of the radar arrays?

Ticonderoga class had similar issues...I remember them doing tests to make sure that stability was not an issue.


Also anyone know what helo is embarked?

[e_rik]

Also anyone know what helo is embarked?


NH-90 NFH, in addition, the deck size and strength will be constructed to land a heavy, maritime helicopter. Like the EH101/Sea King that the norwegian air force operates as search and rescue choppers.
NH-90: http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nh90/

[variable]

I can't find a CIWS.

Still a nice vessel. How many will be built?

BTW..there is a Fridtjof Nansen Street near my place :)


ben

[e_rik]

I can't find a CIWS.

Still a nice vessel. How many will be built?

BTW..there is a Fridtjof Nansen Street near my place :)


ben

Five will be built, 1 is completed and four is under construction.
List of all 5 vessels, names and yers of delivery:
2005: F 310 HNoMS Fridtjof Nansen
2006: F 311 HNoMS Roald Amundsen
2007: F 312 HNoMS Otto Sverdrup
2008: F 313 HNoMS Helge Ingstad
2009: F 314 HNoMS Thor Heyerdahl

[Bert]

I can't find a CIWS.

VLS Mk41 ESSM.

[signatory]

2009: F 314 HNoMS Thor Heyerdahl

HNoMS Kon-Tiki :)

[e_rik]

HNoMS Kon-Tiki :)

hehehe.. ye.. this is our new state-of-the-art warships:)
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/10/kontiki2yp.jpg
rofl

[twominds]

The reason for the party hat syndrome is that the higher the radar sits the longer it can scan over the visible horizon. thus the higher, the longer range.. same logic as why the awacs see longer than a ground based radar.. This first ship is due to enter the harbor of our capital Oslo today around noon.

[PeterG]

VLS Mk41 ESSM.

That's not a CIWS. I actually couldn't believe one isn't fitted - but it appears to be the case...It must be the only 'modern' warship of this size in the world not to have one...:cantbeli:

[makavelli]

better weaponry will be good for that class of ship..

[twominds]

no phalanx type guns on the ship to my knowledge at least. probably should be one. As for the weaponry beyond that it will be very effective once the NMS missile is ready..

[signatory]

That's not a CIWS. I actually couldn't believe one isn't fitted - but it appears to be the case...It must be the only 'modern' warship of this size in the world not to have one...:cantbeli:

What do you talk about ? It got ESSM one OM 76mm rapid fire gun and 12.7mm guns around. torpedo launchers and multi-decoy system + EW suite.

We'll just have to see what ammo they buy to the 76mm. Other than fragmentation rounds they can buy DART missiles for use against boats and incoming missiles.

What else would they need ? (IMO a aft gun and they have actually provided space and connectivity for this)

[jipman]

It's Norwegian so it must be very seaworthy.

[Bert]

It's Norwegian so it must be very seaworthy.
It's Spanish. We paid for it, though.

[twominds]

What do you talk about ? It got ESSM one OM 76mm rapid fire gun and 12.7mm guns around. torpedo launchers and multi-decoy system + EW suite.

We'll just have to see what ammo they buy to the 76mm. Other than fragmentation rounds they can buy DART missiles for use against boats and incoming missiles.

What else would they need ? (IMO a aft gun and they have actually provided space and connectivity for this)
Good to see our scandinavian neighbours stand up for our new pride. :) gonna go down to the docks tomorrow and grab you guys some pics of it. its here in oslo now and over the weekend supposed to be open to the public.. will naturally go and bring my camera there as well :)

[signatory]

Good to see our scandinavian neighbours stand up for our new pride. :) gonna go down to the docks tomorrow and grab you guys some pics of it. its here in oslo now and over the weekend supposed to be open to the public.. will naturally go and bring my camera there as well :)

Sounds good :) Get some photos of a few ladies too p-)

2010 Sweden will order something similar or a pregnant Visby class so it's interesting to follow what other countries do.....

[jipman]

It's Spanish. We paid for it, though.

I know it is...but aren't Norwegians the one's using it? I'm sure the ex-vikings wouldn't use anything crappy.

[Bert]

I know it is...but aren't Norwegians the one's using it? I'm sure the ex-vikings wouldn't use anything crappy.
Oh yes, we're using it. I'm quite sure it's a good ship too.

Unfortunately the socialists want to sell three of them before they're even finished, and they don't want to replace our F-16's once they wither away. We'll end up as New Zealand #2. Uh, yay?

[e_rik]

Unfortunately the socialists want to sell three of them before they're even finished, and they don't want to replace our F-16's once they wither away. We'll end up as New Zealand #2. Uh, yay?

Yes, the socialists sucks.. if they have decided, we would not have any military:roll: so fvck them:slap:

[twominds]

First of all, they navy tested the waters for renting out or selling them and the interest was zero.. plus the navy claims five is the minimum required considering one will allways be in for refitting and repairs and with the steadily decreasing number of other vessels in the navy. As for the F-16 replacements, they are still planning on getting them, just not decided which ones and how many. But there are other options that could be possible to ensure better value for money. For instance, the norwegian terrain isn't well suited for tanks and they are still debating wether we will still have tanks up north. Thus why not throw some of the tank money and fighter money together and get apache's? :)

[Resurrection]

Why were the frigates built in Spain? Cheaper?

First of all, they navy tested the waters for renting out or selling them and the interest was zero.. plus the navy claims five is the minimum required considering one will allways be in for refitting and repairs and with the steadily decreasing number of other vessels in the navy. As for the F-16 replacements, they are still planning on getting them, just not decided which ones and how many. But there are other options that could be possible to ensure better value for money. For instance, the norwegian terrain isn't well suited for tanks and they are still debating wether we will still have tanks up north. Thus why not throw some of the tank money and fighter money together and get apache's? :)

So there hasn't been any debate regarding the use of Norwegian tanks on intenrational missions?

[twominds]

Yes price was the reason they are built there. Norwegian shipyards lost out in the bidding rounds due to costs. although I believe some sections are manufactured here and shipped there for assembly. Tanks are as of yet not used for int ops in Norway. Only cv90's. When the tanks squadron of Telemark Batallion was sendt to Afghanistan, they were sendt as an inf unit with light 4x4 and retrained as inf soldiers. Tanks are considered to heavy and offensive I suppose.

[twominds]

As promised, here are some pics of the new frigate taken today.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1694/bilde1644sm.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7388/bilde1654dz.jpg
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/9739/bilde1669ku.jpg
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/9780/bilde1686bu.jpg
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2316/bilde1699sq.jpg
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4392/bilde1734py.jpg
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/8663/bilde1746tv.jpg
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2163/bilde1764dh.jpg
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4051/bilde1774jx.jpg
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9648/bilde1793ma.jpg
and to finish it off a couple of the ship that nansen is replacing:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9741/bilde1708sv.jpg
the tow behind sonar of narvik:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8504/bilde1719qi.jpg
the rear deckgun:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5785/bilde1725pg.jpg

[signatory]

Really good photos twominds! thanks for sharing

[Resurrection]

Great photos!

Man... frigates. A wet dream for us Swedes.

[e_rik]

nice photos!:) would have been nice to be ther when it came sailing in the fjordp-)

[twominds]

tomorrow I'll get to go onboard so those pics might be even nicer. :) incredible how close they do let us get. as for the lack of a CIWS I am assuming he is talking about missile defense CIWS, i.e. the phalanx system seen on american vessels. Nothing like that on the Nansen class, only the 76mm forward deck gun and a few 50 cals on the rear deck above the helo deck as some of the picks show. The helo is the saddest part. Will eventually be a NH90 but they are 18 months delayed so for now they will have to do without them..

[signatory]

tomorrow I'll get to go onboard so those pics might be even nicer. :) incredible how close they do let us get. as for the lack of a CIWS I am assuming he is talking about missile defense CIWS, i.e. the phalanx system seen on american vessels. Nothing like that on the Nansen class, only the 76mm forward deck gun and a few 50 cals on the rear deck above the helo deck as some of the picks show. The helo is the saddest part. Will eventually be a NH90 but they are 18 months delayed so for now they will have to do without them..

Well Phalanx CIWS have served its time and all current and modern development including the US one is towards 40+ mm guns with intellligent ammo. The Nansen class has the rapid fire 76mm and fitted for a aft (rear) 40mm+ gun. It's just not installed in peace time.

It's a better solution than phalanx. The larger guns can cover much larger area, at longer range, and create a wall of steel with their tungsten pellets.

Sorry about the helo too :|

[easyand]

That's not a CIWS. I actually couldn't believe one isn't fitted - but it appears to be the case...It must be the only 'modern' warship of this size in the world not to have one...:cantbeli:

Actually a 76mm SR with DAVIDE guided munitions (I think they will buy it like us) can destroy a supersonic sea skimming missiles comeing from different directions with only 2 munitions for each engagement ;)

Thats the future of the CIWS man

[Ironlung]

Is this the design being sold to Chile? I know they are to get 2 L Class between 2006-2008
Thanks

[kinghk]

Is this the design being sold to Chile?

No. 1234567

[Frost]

Actually a 76mm SR with DAVIDE guided munitions (I think they will buy it like us) can destroy a supersonic sea skimming missiles comeing from different directions with only 2 munitions for each engagement ;)

Thats the future of the CIWS man

Does it have a rear-gun?? If not than the rear is unprotected. And how about two supersonic anti-ship missiles comming from two different sides? I doubt the single 76mm will be able to engage them fast enough to destroy them both. But than again the US Falanx system isen't able to do so either (a single falanx sytem was tested this way).

The Dutch 30mm Goalkeeper is capable of destroying both missiles. Debris of the second missle punched holes in the side of the test-hull, but on an armored figate this would creat little damage. This is the reason why a lot of countries bought the Goalkeeper.

The Germans are now moving towards the Rolling Airframe Missile CIWS. I know too little about this system to judge it, but it's reported to be good.

A ship without a real independent, self-supporting, self-guiding CIWS is worth sh*t in my point of view.

[Bert]

The ESSM can take out supersonic anti-ship missiles.

[signatory]

Does it have a rear-gun??

Well I've stated twice in this thread...

fitted for a aft (rear) 40mm+ gun. It's just not installed in peace time.

And how about two supersonic anti-ship missiles comming from two different sides?

That's an easy one. Resolved by the guns with several km's to spare.

[Darth Vidar]

Pictures from today:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2786.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2787.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2788.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2789.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2790.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2791.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2792.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2793.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2794.jpg

[Darth Vidar]

Some more:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2795.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2796.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2797.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2798.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2799.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2800.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2801.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2803.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2804.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2805.jpg

[Darth Vidar]

The last ones I have:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2806.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2808.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2814.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2815.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2816.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2817.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2818.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2819.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2820.jpg


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Fridtjof%20Nansen/IMG_2821.jpg

[soutikghosh]

Nice pics.

[Rittmester]

How many Nansen are sailing now?

[Darth Vidar]

As far as I know 2 out of 5 have been delivered to the Norwegian Navy.
(F310 "Fridtjof Nansen" and F311 "Roald Amundsen").

Number 3 (F312 "Otto Sverdrup") should be delivered later this spring, if I remember correct.

[Steve Railsback]

thx for sharing. does the other Nansen-class vessels have the same rusting problems at the Fridtjof Nansen?






wohoo! 666 posts!.......I'm not posting anymore

[Darth Vidar]

Hi Steve!

I have also heard about the "rust" problem, and had a closer look at the hull today.
I dont think the paintjob done by the shipyard is 100%, but from what I saw it`s just a minor issue.

I work on a ship that is just 13 months old, and we have similar rust already, too. (I just bought a lot of paint for the summer - the AB`s are going to have to paint a lot.......:)).

What made me raise my eyebrowns was the low quality of the steelwork on the ships hull. The "bulky" way the steelplates were fitted to each other and the rough welding seams did not look good. (At least parts of the steelwork has been done in Norway.)

Rust and steelplates are just cosmetics. :)

I`m much more concerned about the installation/stretching of electrical cables. (A major weakness on merchantships and ferries buildt in Spain.)

I`m also concerned on how the internal "pipes and plumbing work" has been done, and also the installation of the propulsion systems, and other internal systems....

I hope the building inspectors from the navy did their job!

[Photopunk]

So the bridge is painted blue...?I understand that's until they put in the floral wallpaper. p-)

Maybe I missed this - what's the average draft?

[Darth Vidar]

Maybe I missed this - what's the average draft?


http://www.mil.no/fregatter/start/english/facts/

Main Dimensions:

Length Overall 133.25 m
Length on the Waterline 121.39 m
Max Height Above Water Line 32.25 m at Minimum Op. Displ.
Design Draft Baseline 4.90 m
Maximum Beam 16.80 m
Beam on the Waterline 15.90 m
Full Load Displacement Incl. Margins 5291 tonnes
Complement 120 (Accommodation Capacity 146)

[Photopunk]

http://www.mil.no/fregatter/start/english/facts/

Main Dimensions:
Length Overall 133.25 m
Length on the Waterline 121.39 m
Max Height Above Water Line 32.25 m at Minimum Op. Displ.
Design Draft Baseline 4.90 m
Maximum Beam 16.80 m
Beam on the Waterline 15.90 m
Full Load Displacement Incl. Margins 5291 tonnes
Complement 120 (Accommodation Capacity 146)D'oh! :cantbeli: Thx.

[Ought Six]

So at near 5300 tons full-load displacement, is it not big enough to be classed as a destroyer instead of a frigate? Or is there some other criteria that makes that distinction?

[Rittmester]

So at near 5300 tons full-load displacement, is it not big enough to be classed as a destroyer instead of a frigate? Or is there some other criteria that makes that distinction?

Thats a good questing, as the Nansen is twice as large as its predecessor, the Oslo class frigate (1900 tons). It is also larger and equal to the British Type 42 destroyers (4350 and also 5300 tons). Canadian Iroquois(?) class destroyer is 5100 tons. The US Arleigh Burke class is a large destroyer at 8300 t.

The new German F-125 frigate will be large in deed, weighing in at 6800 tons!

I guess one can conclude that the Nansen is a large frigate - and could have been a small destroyer with a few more weapons. On wikipedia, Nansen is classified both as frigate and guided missile destroyer. With the spare armament (wartime) of one more 76 mm Melara Super Rapid, 3 MK 41 VLS launchers, low cost ASW (depth charges) and the ECM, active Off-board decoy, 2x 12,7 mm, I guess she could be seen as a destroyer with her 27+ knots.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/FR_KNMFN.JPG

[Marsh]

Hi,
I returned from Norway's Arctic waters a couple of weeks ago, went there on holiday. I managed to photograph the F311 "Roald Amundsen" at Hammerfest. If I can figure out how, I will photos of this very impressive frigate.

cheers
Marsh

[Darth Vidar]

Hi Marsh!

Looking forward to see your pictures....

How was your stay in Norway? You should have come here when the weather is better, and the daylight lasts longer. Or maybe you get enough sun back home in Australia? :)

[K22GLE]

Is Narvik decomissioned now then? I heard theese are the replacements?

Had some good times on Narvik back in -96 when we sailed together in the baltics. Excellent pub evenings.

[Ozzy[NO]]

Is Narvik decomissioned now then? I heard theese are the replacements?

Had some good times on Narvik back in -96 when we sailed together in the baltics. Excellent pub evenings.

HNoMS Narvik was decommissioned in 2007 and is now placed at the Royal Norwegian Navy Museum afaik.

I've had HNoMS Fridtjof Nansen in my gun-sights today while it was sailing in the fjord where I live. It got away though, too fast for my BB-gun :oops:

[Marsh]

Hi Marsh!

Looking forward to see your pictures....

How was your stay in Norway? You should have come here when the weather is better, and the daylight lasts longer. Or maybe you get enough sun back home in Australia? :)

Hi Darth,
I can't get the photos to download on this site. I am in my 50s and sadly almost completely computer illiterate. The photos are only snapdshots, not as professional as those already on here. I was really impressed with the frigate and it looked really neat against the background of Hammerfest.

I don't live in Australia I am afraid, I live in Britain. I go to Scandanavia or Finland most winters because I am one of those strange people who like cold weather and snow.

Norway is probably my favourite place to visit. I love the people, scenery, climate and way of life. If I could afford to and could convince my girlfriend, I would happily move to Tromso!

cheers
Marsh

[philbob]

cute little ship

[Darth Vidar]

Today the crew of the F311 KNM "Roald Amundsen" allowed the public onboard so that we could check out how the navy has spent our taxmoney.
p-)

I was only allowed to take pictures on the forcastle and on the helideck, Cellphones had to be turned off while inside the ship.

The tour was interesting, but I got the feeling that the ship was lacking firepower.

There was only one Mk41 VLS (but space for one or two more), no CIWS, no NSM-missiles ( 2010-2011?), no NH90 ASW helicopter (2010?). The only weapons onboard were Stingray torpedoes, the 76mm Oto Breda cannon, Evolved Sea sparrow missiles and a few 0,5" HMG`s.

I`ve always believed that the NSM missiles would be fitted into the VLS, but they will be monted on dedicated launchers midship.

The bridge and engine controlroom were equipped quite similar to a modern civilian vessel, but I was impressed by one feature in the firealarm panel that was very good. I will not go into details but in a fire/damage control situation it would be very helpful. :)

Lets hope the navy will get a CIWS and a second VLS with Standard SAM for each frigate. Besides that I cannot wait till the NH-90 Helo and NSM missiles are operational.

Here are the pictures....

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008218.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008219.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008220.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008221.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008222.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008224.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008226.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008227.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008228.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008229.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008230.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008231.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008232.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008233.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008234.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008235.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008236.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008237.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008238.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008239.jpg

[Kragh]

I With the spare armament (wartime) of one more 76 mm Melara Super Rapid, 3 MK 41 VLS launchers, low cost ASW (depth charges) and the ECM, active Off-board decoy, 2x 12,7 mm, I guess she could be seen as a destroyer with her 27+ knots.



Very interesting info.
I know there space and weight reserved for an additional MK 41 VLS launcher right beside the existing, but where are the 2 others supposed to be placed ?

I like the Nansen class, but feel it is a bit under-armed when it comes to anti-aircraft missiles

[Darth Vidar]

Very interesting info.
I know there space and weight reserved for an additional MK 41 VLS launcher right beside the existing, but where are the 2 others supposed to be placed ?

I like the Nansen class, but feel it is a bit under-armed when it comes to anti-aircraft missiles


In addition to the VLS launcher you can put beside the existing one, I think there might be just enough space to fit in two more behind the 76mm gun?
That is the only realistic position, but I`m not sure if it is possible.......

I find it difficult to understand that they bought an Aegis radar with a detection range of 175nm (vs aircraft) and only have anti aircraft missiles that can reach 25nm. SM-2 standard would be nice.
VLS-ASROC would also be nice to have.

[Rittmester]

Armament:1 × 8-cell Mk41 VLS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_Launching_System) w/ 32 × ESSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESSM)
8 × Naval Strike Missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Strike_Missile) SSMs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-surface_missile)
4 × torpedo tubes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_tube) for Sting Ray torpedoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_Ray_torpedo)
Depth charges (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge)
1 × 76 mm OTO Melara Super Rapid gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otobreda_76_mm)
4 × 12,7 mm Browning M2HB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning_machine_gun) HMG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun)
Prepared for, but not equipped with:
1 × Otobreda 127 mm/54 gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otobreda_127/54_Compact) to replace the 76 mm
1 × spare 76mm OTO Melara Super Rapid gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otobreda_76_mm)
1 × spare CIWS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIWS) gun w/ calibre 40 mm or less
3 × spare 8- cell Mk41 VLS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_Launching_System) launchers
Low cost ASW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_weapon)

[Praet]

SM-2 standard would be nice.
They are ASW platforms, not area AAW - ESSM is completely sufficient for ship self-defense and limited escort duties. For these tasks, 32 missiles are enough as well - especially when considering there is 300% growth potential.

While VLA can be a nice addition to any ASW platform, a second helicopter would have been more advantageous. The Nansen FFGs have an excellent sonar outfit, but few ASW effectors.

[easyand]

That's an easy one. Resolved by the guns with several km's to spare.

simulations made by the USCG demonstrated it can destroy up to 3 missile comeing from different directions

[Kragh]

In addition to the VLS launcher you can put beside the existing one, I think there might be just enough space to fit in two more behind the 76mm gun?
That is the only realistic position, but I`m not sure if it is possible.......

I find it difficult to understand that they bought an Aegis radar with a detection range of 175nm (vs aircraft) and only have anti aircraft missiles that can reach 25nm. SM-2 standard would be nice.
VLS-ASROC would also be nice to have.

I am afraid that there is only space for one additional MK 41 launcher behind the gun.
Try and compare this foto with one I took of the Spanish F-100 class frigates with 4 MK 41 launchers

Nansen:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/Knm%20Roald%20Amundsen/19102008231.jpg

F-100 Alvaro Bazan Class
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm200/fsorensen/Ships/P3160101.jpg

Still wonder where to put the other two VLS launchers ?

[Rittmester]

Come on. I believe the engineers know that they're talking about.. The launcher can for example be rotated 90 degrees and put in a quarterly corner. Lots of space for the platforms on that deck.

I am wondering however, why the extra weapons listed in the specification isn't installed, but stand "in reserve". Is it a matter of funding - or perhaps to spare the expensive systems from wear and tear? Is the ministry of defence waiting for upgrades or the latest versions of the systems in question - like the deal with NSM/JSM?

Perhaps the extra weapons will surpass the limit towards becomming a destroyer - an arm that we're not allowed to posess due to some weapons limitation convention?

Then again, there's the usual suspects in the silly SV party (socialist leftwing party) that holds a few seats in the government and cry constatantly over whatever defence act being pushed forward while they have a say. Christ, those people should be labled for kindergarten issues only and forcefully kicked out of any governmental process involving foreign policy and defence.

[Kragh]

Quote
"I am wondering however, why the extra weapons listed in the specification isn't installed, but stand "in reserve". Is it a matter of funding - or perhaps to spare the expensive systems from wear and tear? Is the ministry of defence waiting for upgrades or the latest versions of the systems in question - like the deal with NSM/JSM"

Probably funding issues !
A lot of vessels sail for several years without their intended weapons out-fit, just look at he Stanflex 300 class (Flyvefisken) and the Visby class.

Gradual procurement might be a splendid idea, unless war is looming

[Rittmester]

Maybe/probably. The armed forces have been starved near dead for a decade.

-Should be space on that deck for a few more launchers, ha..?

[Ratamacue]

Maybe/probably. The armed forces have been starved near dead for a decade.

-Should be space on that deck for a few more launchers, ha..?Space on the deck? Sure. But what about space underneath?

[Kragh]

Maybe/probably. The armed forces have been starved near dead for a decade.

-Should be space on that deck for a few more launchers, ha..?

Maybe i would say, that depends on two thing:
1. How close to the bridgde can you place the VLS launchers, without endangering personnel and structure?
2. Is there any space below deck ? frigates are often very compact with little empty spaces

[Rittmester]

plenty of space on these babies:

Complement:120, accommodations for 146

The extra space right there might be a lead?

[Rittmester]

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/ms2/Radar_Sense_Fall07_Spread.pdf


Norway’s Aegis-equipped Fridtjof Nansen joined the USS Gridley and Spain’s Méndez Núñez for the firstever three-nation Combat System Ship Qualification Trials (CSSQT) in the eastern Pacific this past June. The Fridtjof Nansen’s participation marked the introduction of the SPY-1F radar system. SPY-1F is a smaller, lighter version of the SPY-1D radar system, providing robust performance with Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) and SM-2 missile capability on frigate and corvette-sized ships. The performance of Fridtjof Nansen’s SPY-1F and Aegis Weapon System during the CSSQT were outstanding. Despite the difficult Southern California radar environment, the SPY-1F provided exceptional search frame times, minimal littoral clutter effects (false tracks, folded clutter suppression issues) and outstanding sea skimmer detection ranges.

The SPY-1 ESSMTarget Illumination System (TIS) was flawless during fire control loop performance, including perfect ESSM launch acquisition and the highest and furthest ESSM intercepts ever. Also notable was the SPY-1F’s ability to detect and track a smaller-than threat supersonic high diver at greater than fivetime maximum ESSM range in the littoral. The Norwegian frigate Roald Amundsen, also equipped with a Lockheed Martin developed SPY-1F Aegis Weapon System, was commissioned in May.

[Darth Vidar]

The new Norwegian frigates have engine problems.

Norwegian only:
http://www.bt.no/webtv/?id=14689

[soesteb]

The new Norwegian frigates have engine problems.

Norwegian only:
http://www.bt.no/webtv/?id=14689

Normal with some fubar with new engines.Probaly easy to fix,and it is still under warranty from navantia.

[Dompedidomp]

It's Spanish. We paid for it, though.

It is based on the Spanish Alvaro de Bazan class, but 300 engineers used more than a million work hours to redesign it to the Nansen class, to optimize it for ASW operations in the North Atlantic (the only ice-reinforced frigates in NATO ? ) But apparently they did not redesign it well enough. They had to change the rudders on Nansen, because they was to noisy.

I have never seen anywhere, other than claims on forums, that the Nansen class has been planned with more than 16 VLS cells. But that does not mean that it is not possible. According to the Defense Study 08 there is plans to improve the AAW systems on the frigates, to give them area defense. There is also plans to give them better capabilities against land targets, whatever that means. Larger guns ? NSM ? Tomahawk ?

When they get the NH90s, the Nansen class will be excellent ASW and escort frigates, wich is their primary task. But if/when they get long range AAW missiles, and better land attack capability, they will be great multipurpose frigates.

[Rittmester]

It is based on the Spanish Alvaro de Bazan class, but 300 engineers used more than a million work hours to redesign it to the Nansen class, to optimize it for ASW operations in the North Atlantic (the only ice-reinforced frigates in NATO ? ) But apparently they did not redesign it well enough. They had to change the rudders on Nansen, because they was to noisy.

I have never seen anywhere, other than claims on forums, that the Nansen class has been planned with more than 16 VLS cells. But that does not mean that it is not possible. According to the Defense Study 08 there is plans to improve the AAW systems on the frigates, to give them area defense. There is also plans to give them better capabilities against land targets, whatever that means. Larger guns ? NSM ? Tomahawk ?

When they get the NH90s, the Nansen class will be excellent ASW and escort frigates, wich is their primary task. But if/when they get long range AAW missiles, and better land attack capability, they will be great multipurpose frigates.

Hi Dome, welcome to the forum.

You bring interesting news; are your sources available?

[Dompedidomp]

Hi Dome, welcome to the forum.

You bring interesting news; are your sources available?

Thanks

Defense study, page 21 (in norwegian)

http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00101/Forsvarssjefens_For_101076a.pdf

[Rittmester]

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/148.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/149.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/150.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/151.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/153.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/154.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/156.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/157.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/158.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/159.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/160.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/161.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/163.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/164.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/166.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/167.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/168.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.osloairsoft.no/images/photoalbum/171.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

[Steve Railsback]

excellent! thanks for sharing

[Dompedidomp]

An album with photos from Nansen.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arewold/tags/knmfridtjofnansen/

[NSS]

The big top mast makes it look bigger than it actually is. Wonder how seaworthy the ship is with its top weight or maybe it is just the optic impression.
Its actually very good in rough sea if the speed is over 10 knots ;)

[NSS]

Does it have a rear-gun?? If not than the rear is unprotected. And how about two supersonic anti-ship missiles comming from two different sides? I doubt the single 76mm will be able to engage them fast enough to destroy them both. But than again the US Falanx system isen't able to do so either (a single falanx sytem was tested this way).

The Dutch 30mm Goalkeeper is capable of destroying both missiles. Debris of the second missle punched holes in the side of the test-hull, but on an armored figate this would creat little damage. This is the reason why a lot of countries bought the Goalkeeper.

The Germans are now moving towards the Rolling Airframe Missile CIWS. I know too little about this system to judge it, but it's reported to be good.

A ship without a real independent, self-supporting, self-guiding CIWS is worth sh*t in my point of view.
go to wikipedia and search ESSM stupid... we don't need CIWS, even if it would have been fun with 2 CIWS =)

[NSS]

The new Norwegian frigates have engine problems.

Norwegian only:
http://www.bt.no/webtv/?id=14689
haha :P i was there ^^

[UK1RPO]

Lovely ship.

[Dompedidomp]

A video from Navantia. It shows the 3 first frigates of the class sailing together. It is also the first time I have seen something from the operation room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq0i1_uCRDk

[Derbedeu]

@ 00:45-00:49 why are they so bundled up? Is the ship not heated throughout? Or is there another reason?

[PeterG]

go to wikipedia and search ESSM stupid... we don't need CIWS, even if it would have been fun with 2 CIWS =)

So is the other navies also getting the ESSM, getting rid of their CIWS? I bet they are not. Bordering Russia, and having to factor in the (distant) possibillity of facing them one day, i wouldn't give any FN class ship the faintest chance of surviving a single, brief encounter with them. Our ship would be saturated with anti-ship missiles - and would need every single defensive system that could be fitted.

I spoke to an officer of one of these ships, and he agreed that a CIWS was sorely needed, and claimed 'budget reasons' why it wasn't.

They make for allright peacetime, coastal defence vessels though.

[NavyTimes]

Is it possible to retrofit CIWS?

The other problem i see with these ships in case of war is the small peacetime crew compliment. The Cole bombing kinda proved that a large amount of men is probably needed to keep a ship going after it has been hit.

[Dompedidomp]

@ 00:45-00:49 why are they so bundled up? Is the ship not heated throughout? Or is there another reason?

Fire protection

[Dompedidomp]

So is the other navies also getting the ESSM, getting rid of their CIWS? I bet they are not. Bordering Russia, and having to factor in the (distant) possibillity of facing them one day, i wouldn't give any FN class ship the faintest chance of surviving a single, brief encounter with them. Our ship would be saturated with anti-ship missiles - and would need every single defensive system that could be fitted.

I spoke to an officer of one of these ships, and he agreed that a CIWS was sorely needed, and claimed 'budget reasons' why it wasn't.

They make for allright peacetime, coastal defence vessels though.

The CIWS are not miracle weapons wich can shot down everything that other systems cant, but I agree it would add an additional layer of defense. I am sure we will see it in the future, but first we need to get the frigate helicopters operational. The Nansen class also have the 76mm gun and decoys for close defense.

[Dompedidomp]

Is it possible to retrofit CIWS?

The other problem i see with these ships in case of war is the small peacetime crew compliment. The Cole bombing kinda proved that a large amount of men is probably needed to keep a ship going after it has been hit.

I think it would be possible to retrofit at least one, probably two CIWS on the hangar roof.

It would be nice with more people on the ships, but with the high cost level in Norway, the frigates would be very expensive to operate. I would rather have 5 ships with 120 men, than 4 ships with 150 men.

[Marsh]

Fire protection

Hi,
Strictly speaking, its not fire - its flash. The protective material is only cotton based.
Cheers
Marsh

[PeterG]

The CIWS are not miracle weapons wich can shot down everything that other systems cant, but I agree it would add an additional layer of defense. I am sure we will see it in the future, but first we need to get the frigate helicopters operational. The Nansen class also have the 76mm gun and decoys for close defense.

A last-ditch gun is no 'miracle weapon' for sure, but the last few decades have shown that the ship often lose when targetted by a missile. The more defensive systems, the better. The brits at the falklands, the USS Stark in the gulf, the israeli navy's most modern ship outside of Lebanon.. And these ships were targetted by mostly, single, subsonic missiles with small warheads.

Imagine a volley of powerful russian missiles like the Yakhont, or Moskit.. flying 3 times faster. Every single defensive system that can be brought to bear, would be critical.

Of course - the Nansen class also has a powerful AESA radar and probably a significant electronic warfare capability. I tried to ask a senior officer about specifics, but he declined to talk about it at all, naturally.

[NavyTimes]

It would be nice with more people on the ships, but with the high cost level in Norway, the frigates would be very expensive to operate. I would rather have 5 ships with 120 men, than 4 ships with 150 men.


Agreed that the peacetime compliment is probably sufficient, but the recent exercise overseas proved that operations over weeks get kinda taxing on the crew. Wonder if the ships got accomodation for a bigger wartime crew.

How many are going to be onboard when the Nansen travels to Aden? It has been confirmed that the crew will be bolstered with some combat troops.

[JoaMei]

Well in most of these cases the targeted ships were not prepared for an attack...

[Dompedidomp]

The SPY-1 is a PESA radar.

The ships have accomodation for 146, and Nansen is going to Aden with special forces, snipers, additional medical personnel, military police, two interpreters and one lawyer.

[PeterG]

Well in most of these cases the targeted ships were not prepared for an attack...

Hardly an excuse. In all cases, the vessels have been at war, or operating in a war zone. What is pretty obvious, is that a ship is likely to lose against a missile - even a subsonic, older type. The chance of a Nansen class, or similar vessel, to survive a missile attack by the likes of the brahMos, is virtually nil, in my opinion.

The only countermeasure, could be multiple defensive systems, increasing the chance of defeating the incoming missile.

It is worth noting that the US navy is opting for a CIWS gun, in addition to the ESSM on their destroyers.

[Dompedidomp]

It almost sounds as you mean that CIWS is the most important defense system, and the rest is worthless. CIWS on the Nansens would certainly increase the survivability, but I would choose ESSM over any CIWS if I had to choose a defense system against any missile.

To be prepared for an attack, with all doors closed, zones and citadels established, and crew in their positions means a lot for the survivability of a ship.