KAC 6x35mm PDW

[dobrodan]

http://www.knightarmco.com/pdw.pdf

Seems like a good calibre for a PDW, and the gun doesnt look bad either...

[TacoDelRio]

There was a thread on this before, but it didn't show the brochure or a photo of the weapon itself, thanks!!! Looks pretty neato, like a light rifle or something.

Thanks!

[HoboWithAK]

I'd rather see one with ammo commonality, like a cut down AR. Not like there is a massive shortage of older 16A2s/A1s that this can be done to once they are rotated out of use.

[xEDGEx]

What's with the dimpled barrel? I've never seen anything like that before. I'm assuming for purposes of a heat sink, like fluting.

Looks very cool.

[Tony Williams]

Yes, it looks interesting: there has been a sudden spurt of PDW ammo developments as rivals to the 5.7x28 FN and 4.6x30 HK. These include the 5.8x21 Chinese, 5.56x30 INSAS (India), .17 Libra (Czech), and a range of JAWS rounds for Jordan.

The ammo pic in the pdf brochure is a bit misleading: a friend has sent me an inert example of the round and it is more slender than it looks in the pic. It is basically just a 5.56x45 case wiith 10mm lopped off and slightly necked-out.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[ClydeFrog]

It looks more like a submachinegun or like a sub-compact carbine to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's hardly in the same class as e.g. the MP7.

[Trouble]

I like this one. Never was too crazy about the pistol on steroids feel of other PDW's. Integrated rail system is a real nice touch.

[Katana-sr]

half a meter length folded is just too much for a PDW in my opinion. Probably a great carbine though.

[dobrodan]

half a meter length folded is just too much for a PDW in my opinion. Probably a great carbine though.

Well, an MP7-like weapon should be possible to construct around this calibre, even though it could mean that you cant wrap your thumb around the magazine.
The solution to that is quite simple, use the same grip that the French "PAPOP" (OICW-type weapon) uses, with the thumb pointing upwards, pushing against a knob, to ensure a firm grip.

[ClydeFrog]

No way. Not only will the grip be *extremely* uncomfortable, the recoil will also be very harsh.

I assume they are taking rather the "M1 Carbine"-like approach for "PDW" with this one.

[dobrodan]

No way. Not only will the grip be *extremely* uncomfortable, the recoil will also be very harsh.

I assume they are taking rather the "M1 Carbine"-like approach for "PDW" with this one.

Well, have you ever shot "thumbs up" in a normal rifle? I have, and I didn´t find it uncomfortable at all. I also usually carry the G3 with a grip around the front of the magwell, because that is very close to the CG of the rifle.

I also can´t really understand why recoil will be so harsh, as you usually will have the stock in your shoulder, or use your other hand with a forward grip...

[TacoDelRio]

I'll reserve my comments until I've personally shot and carried this rifle for a longer period of time.

Which will be never, probably.

[ClydeFrog]

Well, have you ever shot "thumbs up" in a normal rifle? I have, and I didn´t find it uncomfortable at all. I also usually carry the G3 with a grip around the front of the magwell, because that is very close to the CG of the rifle.

I also can´t really understand why recoil will be so harsh, as you usually will have the stock in your shoulder, or use your other hand with a forward grip...
Yeah when I saw the first pics of the PAPOP tried it with the G36 and found it very awkward. I imagine if i fired full-auto like that, the weapon might just slip out of my hand at least I won't be very accurate with it as i constantly had to worry about it. Even with some training and a better adjusted pistol grip... I doubt this way of holding the gun will be more comfortable than the classic method. I too use the mag-well as kind of a forgrip with the G36 but it's just the non-dominant hand, it still relies on right hand to hold the gun in its place.

That aside you probably still couldn't feed this round into a grip unless you make it single-stack.

And about the recoil I meant firing with one hand, which is not a must but certainly one of the "soft" requiremeants for a true PDW.

[dobrodan]

Yeah when I saw the first pics of the PAPOP tried it with the G36 and found it very awkward. I imagine if i fired full-auto like that, the weapon might just slip out of my hand at least I won't be very accurate with it as i constantly had to worry about it. Even with some training and a better adjusted pistol grip... I doubt this way of holding the gun will be more comfortable than the classic method. I too use the mag-well as kind of a forgrip with the G36 but it's just the non-dominant hand, it still relies on right hand to hold the gun in its place.

That aside you probably still couldn't feed this round into a grip unless you make it single-stack.

And about the recoil I meant firing with one hand, which is not a must but certainly one of the "soft" requiremeants for a true PDW.

If you look closer at the PAPOP, you will notice a small knob that you put your thumb on to improve your grip... Still it wont be good for bayonette-thrusting, but should be adequate for firing, even singlehanded if the ammo is not too powerful.

Sure, this method of holding the gun is probably not any better than a classic grip, rather the opposite, but it allows the length of the gun to shrink quite a bit, and will allow a better balance in the weapon than most short bullpups. Also, it will allow hand-to-hand coordination when reloading.

When I carry the G3 unslinged, I carry it with my right hand wrapped around the front of the magwell. I don´like to normally use the sling, as I find it awkward, and carry the gun this way when walking longer distances, and when I´m doing fire and movement. When patrolling, I keep the rifle in the ready position.

Doublestacked ammunition should be no problem... I can wrap my hand easily around the front of the G3´s magwell, and I do not have very large hands... I cant reach the G3´s safety without moving my hand...

[akmarksman]

my first impression is that someone stole the Robinson Arms XCR design.

[vajt]

If this design (with a 10" barrel) is effective at 300m, and it seems it has decent stopping power, just like the SAAB CBJ, why not start issuing these instead? Lighter ammo and lighter weapon.

Make this type of weapon the primary weapon, have a few guys with under-barrel grenade launcgers or even one with a multi-shot weapon, one with a light 7.62mm machinegun and maybe one with a sniping weapon for those longer shots and you basically lightened the squad's total carried weight. This also makes it easier to carry a couple extra grenades and shoulder launched rockets.

Since most gun battles occur at ranges of 300m or less, these small but powerful weapons could actually replace the larger and heavier rifles.

-----JT-----

[akmarksman]

well the same reason the .22LR isn't issued..
In any engagement close in or 800+meters..I want a .50Cal. Slow RoF..but the fact that it fires +600gr round..and you can have AP,APIT,Raufoss,API,SLAP,Tracer.

[Sharky]

I shot it during it's endurance trials. It still had a couple of small issues to be worked out, but I absolutely loved the weapon. The recoil was almost non-existent, so it's really not even worth arguing about. The round was chosen because it provides a slight bit more FPS than the 5.56 with 1/3 less felt recoil. Powder is also completely burned before the round leaves the muzzle, so little to no muzzle flash.