Zawahiri escapes...?

[ariweiner]

Fierce fight to whisk stranger away
March 19, 2004

Islamabad - Pakistani troops who saw a "foreigner" flee a siege near the Afghan border in a bullet-proof landcruiser are certain he was not Osama bin Laden, a senior security official said today.

But the level of resistance put up by scores of heavily armed fighters as he escaped suggested it could be the al-Qaeda chief's number two, Ayman al-Zawahri.

"The way he was whisked away, the way fighters sprang from nowhere ... We can't think of another al-Qaeda leader who could have such high protocol," the official said.

The foreigner was spotted fleeing a siege of tribesmen's homes in a remote village in northwest Pakistan, some 20km east of the Afghan border, on Tuesday.

A contingent of 50 paramilitary troops were attacked as the foreigner's four-wheel drive sped away. As two other landcruisers emerged to protect the first, dozens of fighters sprang from several directions to pound the soldiers with gunfire and grenades.

ATaliban spokesperson said today that Bin Laden and Zawahri were safe in Afghanistan.

Abdul Samad said he was "100%" sure the al-Qaeda number two was safe. - Sapa-AFP

[Dalleer]

Funny how the big fish always manage slip away when it comes to operations like these...

[fdt]

Fled in a bullet-proof landcruiser?? Please... what is that?? Toyota's commercial?? How was he "cornered", "trapped" and "surrounded" if he could manage to drive away... in a car... :cantbeli: ... not tank, APC or Batmobile... :cantbeli:

[wiggle]

Where the **** where the Hind helos AL Jazeera keeps showing "on the hunt" bulletproof land cruiser my ass.....

[Dalleer]

Fled in a bullet-proof landcruiser?? Please... what is that?? Toyota's commercial?? How was he "cornered", "trapped" and "surrounded" if he could manage to drive away... in a car... :cantbeli: ... not tank, APC or Batmobile... :cantbeli:

Well you know, in my opinion the Pakistanis were putting a big show to the world, especially the US.

Some fancy fireworks, Musharraf speaks in the TV, but at the end I'm sure the Pakistanis never had the intent to even capture this guy. They should've sent in the US special forces to grab that guy, since it is quite obvious that the Pakistanis are playing both sides, more or less.

And what makes me wonder is, the Pakistani troops themselves. What sorts of troops were they? regular infantry? militia? SF ?

[Maverick77]

Paramilitary mostly

[George W. Bush]

Hahaha.. yeah right. They SAW him driving away in his Landcruiser but did nothing?

[LordHalbert]

The pakistanis can always claim that "He got a away".

In fact, I expect it.

[fdt]

Hahaha.. yeah right. They SAW him driving away in his Landcruiser but did nothing?Maybe they even wanted to give him a ticket for speeding but then decided that a warning will do. :petting:

[Dalleer]

Paramilitary mostly

Ehm, "no wonder" Ayman al-Zawahri got away.

Come on, I'm sure Pakistan would've had better troops to send in the area instead of these "paramilitary" guys that were probably sitting around the campfire with al-Zawahri before the fighting.

This just shows how much effort Pakistan really put into it.

EDIT: Ehm, some new stuff happening, apparently...

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/19/pakistan.alqaeda/index.html

[HELEX]

Well, ups.... he escaped and we could do nothing.... :lol: :cantbeli:

[Pille1234]

There's too much media information about an ongoing operation. I mean, I can read what the pakistan army is going to do next. Am I the only one who finds this suspicious? This is nothing more but a media offensive to show to Collin Powel how brave Musharraf fights terrorists. I wish I would be wrong though...

[-=TFN=-Karab]

DAMN IT! No way... Thought those Pakistani soldiers had the place "cornered"...


Pff... Good job guys! You screw it up again!

[cold0]

from
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/19/pakistan.alqaeda/index.html

U.S. officials said the United States is providing reconnaissance information, advice, and logistics to help along to Pakistan, but stress that it is a Pakistani operation. The United States has not been invited to take part in the operation, and Pakistan has insisted that its military independently run operations to crack down on al Qaeda, U.S. officials said.

rofl rofl rofl rofl

[Seoulstriker]

ATaliban spokesperson said today that Bin Laden and Zawahri were safe in Afghanistan.



arweiner, STFU. i don't want to see your garbage posted anymore from "Terrorists Channel Online." :bash:

[cold0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&ncid=1503&e=21&u=/afp/20040319/ts_afp/pakistan_afghanistan_040319073457

Foreigner seen fleeing Pakistani border siege not bin Laden: official
Fri Mar 19, 2:34 AM ET Add Top Stories - AFP to My Yahoo!



ISLAMABAD, (AFP) - Pakistani troops who saw a heavily-guarded "foreigner" flee a siege near the Afghan border in a bullet-proof landcruiser are certain he was not Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), a senior security official said.


But the level and sophistication of resistance put up by scores of heavily armed fighters as he escaped made them conclude it could be the Al-Qaeda chief's number two, the official said.


"The Frontier Corps troops who saw this foreigner said they were certain it was not bin Laden, but they speculated it could be Ayman al-Zawahiri," the official, who asked not to be named, told AFP.


"The way he was whisked away, the way fighters sprang from nowhere, that made us believe that if it was not bin Laden, and we're sure it was not, that it was his deputy.


"We can't think of another Al-Qaeda leader who could have such high protocol and such sophisticated tight defence."


The foreigner was spotted in a four-wheel drive fleeing a siege of tribesmen's homes in remote Kalushah village in South Waziristan, some 20 kilometers (12.4 miles) east of the Afghan border in northwest Pakistan's tribal zone, on Tuesday.


A contingent of 50 paramilitary troops was attacked with grenades and sub-machineguns while approaching a fortress-like compound in a hunt for tribesmen wanted for sheltering Al-Qaeda fugitives.


Suddenly a landcruiser appeared and sped away, as two other landcruisers -- also carrying foreigners -- emerged to protect the first car and dozens of fighters sprang from several directions to pound the soldiers with gunfire and grenades.


The entire troop contingent was "virtually wiped out," the official said.


Fifteen were killed, 22 were injured, and another 13 are still missing.


Soldiers who survived the onslaught said the foreigner in the first landcruiser had "outlandish features," and was "neat and clean" in appearance.


They fired at the vehicle but the bullets bounced off, only managing to hit one of its tyres.


"We haven't seen a bullet-proof vehicle in the area before and the theory is that it was carrying a high profile Al-Qaeda leader, possibly Zawahiri," the official said.


The fighters appeared to be a mix of foreigners and local tribesmen, he added.


"The troops are in no doubt that the militants showed up just to protect those vehicles," he added.


One of the vehicles was blown up by a mortar and the two foreign-looking men inside were killed. "Their faces were mutilated but we think they could have been Uzbeks," the official said.


Hundreds of Al-Qaeda fighters are believed to be hiding in South Waziristan, the most remote and most conservative of Pakistan's seven semi-autonomous tribal districts.





The well-protected "foreigner" who escaped Tuesday could well have slipped the net of Pakistani forces, who are still pounding the area with mortars and helicopter gunships, the official said.

The Pakistani operation in the rugged autonomous tribal region some 300 kilometres (180 miles) west of Islamabad coincides with similar activity by US and Afghan forces over the border in Afghanistan (news - web sites) in a major new offensive to catch bin Laden as well as other Al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders.

The US House of Representatives Thursday doubled the reward for bin Laden's capture to 50 million dollars. A 25-million-dollar reward remains on the head of Zawahiri, considered the brains of Al-Qaeda and a key planner of the September 11 attacks on the United States.

The US military said it had trained intense surveillance on the Waziristan area including Predator drones. Pakistani officials said troops were targeting five villages in a six-kilometre radius around the main South Waziristan town of Wana.

Two Pakistani government officials told AFP it was believed the militants were protecting Zawahiri, who along with bin Laden escaped the dragnet of US forces after the October 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.

Zawahiri, 52, is a former leader of the Egyptian Jihad movement which was implicated in the 1981 assassination of Egyptian president Anwar Sadat and the 1997 massacre of foreign tourists at Luxor on the Nile River.

He has been indicted over the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington, and has often appeared at bin Laden's side in taped interviews distributed by Al-Qaeda.

In a taped message released on February 24, a man claiming to be Zawahiri warned US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) to step up security and threatened new attacks on the United States.

[khukuri]

Cmon guys, they screw up one operation. I havent seen you flaming like that when US screwed up several times when they had binladin surrounded.

[MEGR]

Hehe.. Well if he did get away in the batmobile, then there is nothing the Pakis coulda done.

http://www.earlham.edu/~iqs/batmobile.jpg

[scm77]

It says that they escaped to the border and into afghanistan. Weren't the US supposed to have forces there incase this exact scenario happened? Also if this terrain was so hostile and rocky how the hell did they speed away in a land cruiser?

I just happened to be in the area at the time and I snapped this photo of how he really got away.

http://www.aliaterra.com/asia/indiapics/camel_race.jpg

Notice the red flak jacket, and the guy hanging off the back? Anybody could have mistaken this for an armoured land cruiser. :cantbeli:

[RomanS]

ATaliban spokesperson said today that Bin Laden and Zawahri were safe in Afghanistan.



arweiner, STFU. i don't want to see your garbage posted anymore from "Terrorists Channel Online." :bash:

I don't understand what is FBI doing
This asshole supports his fellow terrorists, and admits that he's all fro Chechen terrorists as well.

Well being muslim doesnt help

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Well being muslim doesnt help
A slightly off colour comment do you not think. :|

[RomanS]

no racism in it
;)

[ShadowNeo]

I can't believe people are still not typing out pakistani in full, when they have been told the abbreviation is offensive, 5 extra letters doesn't take long to type, jesus :cantbeli: .

[George W. Bush]

I can't believe people are still not typing out pakistani in full, when they have been told the abbreviation is offensive, 5 extra letters doesn't take long to type, jesus :cantbeli: .

Are you a Pakistani?

[ShadowNeo]

No I am not of pakistani origin, although several of my friends (who browse this site) happen to be. They brought the whole "paki" thing to my attention, and they seemed, quite frankly, extremely pissed off that its allowed to go on.

I just wish some people could have some common courtesy and think a little.

[Seoulstriker]

ATaliban spokesperson said today that Bin Laden and Zawahri were safe in Afghanistan.



arweiner, STFU. i don't want to see your garbage posted anymore from "Terrorists Channel Online." :bash:

I don't understand what is FBI doing
This asshole supports his fellow terrorists, and admits that he's all fro Chechen terrorists as well.

Well being muslim doesnt help


it's really strange how he can think what is going on in chechnya is right. :| and then a bunch of chechens were killed in pakistan/afghanistan. hmmmm.... :|

[RomanS]

i bet he sends money to the Chechen terrorists, and when on vacation somewhere in Europe he sends money to al queda

all his topics were nothing but a pro-muslim bull ****

i dont even see him post a single photo, or an article with good news.

[Maverick77]

Canuk, Yank and Brit special forces should be allowed to join the battle.


Paki troops will **** it up or just let them leave. I can see it comin.

[ShadowNeo]

God, how ****ing ignorant can people be? :cantbeli:

[Nizark]

It looks like Pakistan focked up again, and the HVT was/is a chief of one of the larger Pashtun tribes.

Screw these guys, how about the 1st AD roll into the tribal area with their M1A1's and find him the old fashioned way rofl

[RomanS]

never trust pakis

[LordHalbert]

I dont think the Pakistanis are really trying very hard.

This seems more like a public display to appease the USA.

I doubt they'll catch or kill anyone important.

[Maverick77]

It looks like Pakistan focked up again, and the HVT was/is a chief of one of the larger Pashtun tribes.

Screw these guys, how about the 1st AD roll into the tribal area with their M1A1's and find him the old fashioned way rofl

too many mountains.

Send the Canadian SeaKIng fleet in full of explosives all crews abandon sending the Sea Kings into area.

So many problems solved there that I can't even name them all.

[usa320]

This si too much god damn bull****...

Last time we passed the responsibility of catching these guys off to the Northern Alliance. They messed it up. This time we decided to let the pakistanis do it, and its looking like they ****ed up too. WE need to just do it ourselves. We are the only ones who have the night vision and air capablilty to secure that area at night.

Its time we stoip fiddling around, go in, get them, and get out. if the pakistanis dont like it, tough.

[Maverick77]

This si too much god damn bull****...

Last time we passed the responsibility of catching these guys off to the Northern Alliance. They messed it up. This time we decided to let the pakistanis do it, and its looking like they f*** up too. WE need to just do it ourselves. We are the only ones who have the night vision and air capablilty to secure that area at night.

Its time we stoip fiddling around, go in, get them, and get out. if the pakistanis dont like it, tough.

Yeah definatly

A lot of bull**** politics involved here I think.

[RomanS]

This si too much god damn bull****...

Last time we passed the responsibility of catching these guys off to the Northern Alliance. They messed it up. This time we decided to let the pakistanis do it, and its looking like they f*** up too. WE need to just do it ourselves. We are the only ones who have the night vision and air capablilty to secure that area at night.

Its time we stoip fiddling around, go in, get them, and get out. if the pakistanis dont like it, tough.

Bingo brother!

The Pakis were about to catch him, but than that time of the day came, everyone turned east and went (whispering): Allllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahu Akbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar Inshaaaaa Alaaaaaah Bismillaaaaah

[ShadowNeo]

Bingo brother!

The Pakis were about to catch him, but than that time of the day came, everyone turned east and went (whispering): Allllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahu Akbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar Inshaaaaa Alaaaaaah Bismillaaaaah

Thats one post in hot competition for "Idiotic Post of The Day" (TM).

[Maverick77]

Arabs are the ****iest conventional warriors in the world. No 2 ways about it.

If this ****er did get away then I will not be suprised at all.

[LordHalbert]

You folks are forgetting that the USA does not have permission to enter Pakistan (not officially).

The USA is probably assisting with intelligence and may be covert CIA operatives - but that's it.

The president/prime minister of Pakistan can NOT officially allow the USA to enter Pakistan - that would be political suicide. Already, he's had several assasination attempts.

[Argyll]

This si too much god damn bull****...

Last time we passed the responsibility of catching these guys off to the Northern Alliance. They messed it up. This time we decided to let the pakistanis do it, and its looking like they f*** up too. WE need to just do it ourselves. We are the only ones who have the night vision and air capablilty to secure that area at night.

Its time we stoip fiddling around, go in, get them, and get out. if the pakistanis dont like it, tough.

Oh yeah great idea,piss in another mans beer,and think he wont **** in your dinner :backhand:

The USA needs Pakistan on it's side to fight AQ and the Taliban whether you like it or not

[Maverick77]

You folks are forggetting that the USA does not have permission to enter Pakistan (not officially).

The USA is probably assiting with intelligence and may be covert CIA operatives - but that's it.

The presidient/prime minister of Pakistan can NOT officially allow the USA to enter Pakisitan - that would be political suicide. Already, he's had several assination attempts.

**** politics.

Al Qeada is growing, if this asshole makes it out of this battle then they will continue to grow rapidly each day.

Whats more important "political suicide" or the lives of millions of people that will die if Al Qeada is allowed to continue to operate the way it is now because of bull**** like this.

you tell me

[RomanS]

This si too much god damn bull****...

Last time we passed the responsibility of catching these guys off to the Northern Alliance. They messed it up. This time we decided to let the pakistanis do it, and its looking like they f*** up too. WE need to just do it ourselves. We are the only ones who have the night vision and air capablilty to secure that area at night.

Its time we stoip fiddling around, go in, get them, and get out. if the pakistanis dont like it, tough.

Oh yeah great idea,piss in another mans beer,and think he wont **** in your dinner :backhand:

The USA needs Pakistan on it's side to fight AQ and the Taliban whether you like it or not

yeah but half of Pakistan is harboring the gay queda and Gayliban

[Pille1234]

This si too much god damn bull****...

Last time we passed the responsibility of catching these guys off to the Northern Alliance. They messed it up. This time we decided to let the pakistanis do it, and its looking like they f*** up too...

The difference is, this time it wasn't your decision, so if they screw it up there's noone to blame.

[ShadowNeo]

yeah but half of Pakistan is harboring the gay queda and Gayliban

wtf? :cantbeli:

The US can't afford to go marching into another country without permission, especially a country like Pakistan. All that would cause would probably be further discontent towards the US, gather more support for AQ, and you'd make the problem much worse.

[LordHalbert]

Entering Pakistan w/o permission is the same thing as declaring war on Pakistan - do we all want this?

[Maverick77]

yes

[RomanS]

yeah but half of Pakistan is harboring the gay queda and Gayliban

wtf? :cantbeli:

The US can't afford to go marching into another country without permission, especially a country like Pakistan. All that would cause would probably be further discontent towards the US, gather more support for AQ, and you'd make the problem much worse.

why are you speaking for the WHOLE USA?

[ShadowNeo]

Airborne249 wrote:

yes

Are you just saying that for the sake of being awkward, or are you genuinely that stupid?

[ShadowNeo]

why are you speaking for the WHOLE USA?

I'm not speaking on behalf of Americans, if thats what you mean, because I am not an American. I am simply stating my opinion as to what may happen if the US took that course of action.

[Maverick77]

Airborne249 wrote:

yes

Are you just saying that for the sake of being awkward, or are you genuinely that stupid?

a war with pakistan would not bother me

[Haiw]

Airborne249 wrote:

yes

Are you just saying that for the sake of being awkward, or are you genuinely that stupid?

a war with pakistan would not bother me
Isn't life wonderfull when you're still full of naive ignorance...

[Argyll]

Airborne249 wrote:

yes

Are you just saying that for the sake of being awkward, or are you genuinely that stupid?

a war with pakistan would not bother me


that's because you're not in the Armed services putting yourself in harms way.......and besides that Canada wouldn't do it either

[ShadowNeo]

a war with pakistan would not bother me

If a war with Pakistan occurred, it would be the US in there alone, I doubt you could count on support on a war about 100 times more contraversial than Iraq, not to mention a war that did not need to happen.

Open up more war fronts, stretch the US military even more, create more needless hatred towards the US - how you can not have a problem with that bothers me.

[Maverick77]

If the country I live in was at war with the country Pakistan that would not bother me. I not saying it would be something to celebrate something "awsome" just simply that I would not be bothered.


If thats ignorance then ok.

[Dave the Dawg]

Thats one post in hot competition for "Idiotic Post of The Day" (TM).


Arabs are the ****iest conventional warriors in the world. No 2 ways about it.

If this f*** did get away then I will not be suprised at all.

This one wins. Ignorance, bigotry, assertions unsupported by evidence, poor communications skills... what else? Oh, yeah... Pakistanis aren't Arabs.

[Maverick77]

Thats one post in hot competition for "Idiotic Post of The Day" (TM).


Arabs are the ****iest conventional warriors in the world. No 2 ways about it.

If this f*** did get away then I will not be suprised at all.

This one wins. Ignorance, bigotry, assertions unsupported by evidence, poor communications skills... what else? Oh, yeah... Pakistanis aren't Arabs.



you want Evidence?

Gulf War 1
Gulf War 2
All Arab Israeli wars
Conventional Battles U.S vs Taliban

there.

[RomanS]

Pakistan

Saudi

Syria

needs to be smacked really hard. And not like you would smack a female. I'm talking about a nice fat pistol whiping across the jaw.

Why do they harbor terrorists ShadowNeo ?

[ShadowNeo]

Would a slightly more informed argument not be that, the arab forces that the US has engaged with has been outclassed in terms of training and equipment?

Still, didn't address the fact that Pakistani's are not arabs.

[Maverick77]

I didnt say they were

[usa320]

The USA needs Pakistan on it's side to fight AQ and the Taliban whether you like it or not

Yeah, well if we just did this, and did it right, and grabbed the HVT's, we really wouldnt need pakistan anymore.

[ShadowNeo]

Pakistan

Saudi

Syria

needs to be smacked really hard. And not like you would smack a female. I'm talking about a nice fat pistol whiping across the jaw.

Why do they harbor terrorists ShadowNeo ?

Sure, i'm all for putting political pressure on countries that openly harbour terrorists - but simply charging into their borders and doing what you want is stupid. Pakistan is a country that is doing something about the terrorists and I don't think it would be exactly the best thing to do to brush them aside while they are doing this.

[ShadowNeo]

I didnt say they were


Arabs are the ****iest conventional warriors in the world. No 2 ways about it.

If this f*** did get away then I will not be suprised at all.

Seems to be that your first statement there ties into your second, in that your belief that the Pakistanis are not competent to conduct this operation.

[RomanS]

So if we leave Pakistan alone, and let them catch the bad guys, things will be better.

But if another attack on USA happens, who do we blame? You, Pakistan or ourselves for not going in and doing the job ourselves?

[Maverick77]

Pakistani troops are probably great men.

Their governemt is full of ****.

My first statement was talking to Russian he was talking about arabs before me.

here you go though

PAKISTANIS ARE ARABS

there that should give you somthing to do for the next few hours.

later

[ShadowNeo]

So if we leave Pakistan alone, and let them catch the bad guys, things will be better.

But if another attack on USA happens, who do we blame? You, Pakistan or ourselves for not going in and doing the job ourselves?

Don't know why you would want to blame me as I don't have the power to change what is happening :D .

I stand by what I have said, Permskii, do you honsetly think that damaging relations with Pakistan to such an extent that their co-operation in the War on Terror is negated would help the US in the long term?

[RomanS]

Arabs don't understand nice language, they can't be trusted.

As I recall during the Cold War Russia and USA both hated eachother. But we both didnt dare to kill our civilians. We both resolved our problems at the table and after all Russians were tired of living in the Communism.

Arabs-

Why didn't they hijack the planes to attack American military bases? Why did they target the civilians? Americans don't go into countries trying to kill every civilian arab they see. Civilians die during the war, we live in the real world.

But Arabs have 2 faces, and we know it. Those countries who lived through terrorism KNOW. Those who never had to deal with Arabs or Islam, please stay away from this argument.

Pakistan has terrorists all over the place. But the government hardly does anything because they like taking money from them, and at the same time recieve support from USA for fighting terrorism.

What happened with Zawahiri was a great example of "corruption of Pakistan". I'm sure they even know where ben laden is, but no way they will reveal his position to the US. He's one of their own, he's an arab, muslim, islamic and they look at him as much as at Allah.

They say he had balls to stand up against USA, and Pakistanis are with him.

I'm sorry but I was a pakistani, and I knew where ben laden was (which is obvious), i would love to have $50 million reward.

Some would say they are affraid to reveal him, because of their own live could be lost. So how do you trust them in the war on terrorism if majority of them defend the terrorism???

We can't afford to negotiate anymore, and be nice. USA tolerated this bull**** for many years. No more!

We need to go in Pakistan, and finish our operations ourselves. **** what the world thinks. They don't pay our bills, and taxes.

I am ****in sick of the world telling us what is right and wrong.

[Dave the Dawg]

you want Evidence?

Gulf War 1
Gulf War 2
All Arab Israeli wars
Conventional Battles U.S vs Taliban The Taliban aren't Arabs either. Go back to high school.

[ShadowNeo]

Arabs don't understand nice language, they can't be trusted.

As I recall during the Cold War Russia and USA both hated eachother. But we both didnt dare to kill our civilians. We both resolved our problems at the table and after all Russians were tired of living in the Communism.

Arabs-

Why didn't they hijack the planes to attack American military bases? Why did they target the civilians? Americans don't go into countries trying to kill every civilian arab they see. Civilians die during the war, we live in the real world.

But Arabs have 2 faces, and we know it. Those countries who lived through terrorism KNOW. Those who never had to deal with Arabs or Islam, please stay away from this argument.

Pakistan has terrorists all over the place. But the government hardly does anything because they like taking money from them, and at the same time recieve support from USA for fighting terrorism.

What happened with Zawahiri was a great example of "corruption of Pakistan". I'm sure they even know where ben laden is, but no way they will reveal his position to the US. He's one of their own, he's an arab, muslim, islamic and they look at him as much as at Allah.

They say he had balls to stand up against USA, and Pakistanis are with him.

I'm sorry but I was a pakistani, and I knew where ben laden was (which is obvious), i would love to have $50 million reward.

Some would say they are affraid to reveal him, because of their own live could be lost. So how do you trust them in the war on terrorism if majority of them defend the terrorism???

We can't afford to negotiate anymore, and be nice. USA tolerated this bull**** for many years. No more!

We need to go in Pakistan, and finish our operations ourselves. f*** what the world thinks. They don't pay our bills, and taxes.

I am f*** sick of the world telling us what is right and wrong.

Your are generalising and letting your prejudices stand in the way of the actual situation. Not every arab or muslim is a terrorist. The people we are after in the War on Terror are Islamic Extremists. To generalise the way you are is exactly what the terrorists want you to do, and it is a shame that you hold those views.

I think you may be somewhat naive as to think that Pakistan has known the exact location of Bin Laden all along. Why engage in an operation to capture his second in command if they knew where he, himself, numero uno was.

When you destroy negotiation you have given the terrorists more help than they could ever need. Go down that route and you will lose any allies you have, and the world will be far from secure.

[RomanS]

Arabs don't understand nice language, they can't be trusted.

As I recall during the Cold War Russia and USA both hated eachother. But we both didnt dare to kill our civilians. We both resolved our problems at the table and after all Russians were tired of living in the Communism.

Arabs-

Why didn't they hijack the planes to attack American military bases? Why did they target the civilians? Americans don't go into countries trying to kill every civilian arab they see. Civilians die during the war, we live in the real world.

But Arabs have 2 faces, and we know it. Those countries who lived through terrorism KNOW. Those who never had to deal with Arabs or Islam, please stay away from this argument.

Pakistan has terrorists all over the place. But the government hardly does anything because they like taking money from them, and at the same time recieve support from USA for fighting terrorism.

What happened with Zawahiri was a great example of "corruption of Pakistan". I'm sure they even know where ben laden is, but no way they will reveal his position to the US. He's one of their own, he's an arab, muslim, islamic and they look at him as much as at Allah.

They say he had balls to stand up against USA, and Pakistanis are with him.

I'm sorry but I was a pakistani, and I knew where ben laden was (which is obvious), i would love to have $50 million reward.

Some would say they are affraid to reveal him, because of their own live could be lost. So how do you trust them in the war on terrorism if majority of them defend the terrorism???

We can't afford to negotiate anymore, and be nice. USA tolerated this bull**** for many years. No more!

We need to go in Pakistan, and finish our operations ourselves. f*** what the world thinks. They don't pay our bills, and taxes.

I am f*** sick of the world telling us what is right and wrong.

Your are generalising and letting your prejudices stand in the way of the actual situation. Not every arab or muslim is a terrorist. The people we are after in the War on Terror are Islamic Extremists. To generalise the way you are is exactly what the terrorists want you to do, and it is a shame that you hold those views.

I think you may be somewhat naive as to think that Pakistan has known the exact location of Bin Laden all along. Why engage in an operation to capture his second in command if they knew where he, himself, numero uno was.

When you destroy negotiation you have given the terrorists more help than they could ever need. Go down that route and you will lose any allies you have, and the world will be far from secure.

Have you lost a best friend that you spent 15 years with to the war. Have you seen a mother of another good friend hitting her forehead against the closed casket (head was caught off, and face was vandalized), have you lost a friend in the terrorist attack in NY, and Moscow?

I did

so good fu ck in luck trying to change my view on muslims.

Try to tell other victims, parents, kids, husbands, wifes, brothers, sisters, and friends who lost their relatives to that scum.

I'm trying to stay calm as much as I can, there is a lot I can say about Islam now, but i'll hold it off.


and always remember
NOT EVERY CANCER CAN KILL YOU EITHER

[ShadowNeo]

Try to tell other victims, parents, kids, husbands, wifes, brothers, sisters, and friends who lost their relatives to that scum.

I'm trying to stay calm as much as I can, there is a lot I can say about Islam now, but i'll hold it off.


and always remember
NOT EVERY CANCER CAN KILL YOU EITHER

If you have lost people who were close to you, I respect that, I sympathise with that, i'm sure everyone will. I myself have lost a very good family friend who was abducted and killed by Islamic Extremists in the Phillipines.

I do not focus my anger on Islam as a whole. I have had many good friends over the year who have been Muslim, I grew up schooling alongside people from every religion and I have grown to respect them. My anger is reserved for the people who deserve it - the extremists.

[Marmot1]

Pakistani troops are probably great men.

Their governemt is full of ****.

My first statement was talking to Russian he was talking about arabs before me.

here you go though

PAKISTANIS ARE ARABS

there that should give you somthing to do for the next few hours.

later

Are you sure they are arabs??? maybe jews too... :cantbeli: pls check it before you post it in bold


Demographics
Main article: Demographics of Pakistan
Pakistan has the world's seventh largest population, this coupled with a high growth rate means that Pakistan will only move up among nations in population in the near future. The majority of the people of Pakistan are Muslim, with a sizeable minority of Shiite Muslims. A small minority of non-Muslims exist, mostly Christians, Pashtuns, Hindus, and smaller groups of Buddhists and animists in the remote Northern Areas.

While Urdu and English are the official languages of Pakistan, the most widely spoken language is Punjabi, and Punabis compose the largest ethnic group in the nation and dominate the other groups. Other important ethnic groups include: Sindhis, Afghanies, Balochis, and Muhajirs. There are also sizeable numbers of of Bengalis that are concentrated in Karachi.


See any arabs here???

[wulfstan]

i used to work with a retired Pakistani sargeant, and he spoke about the Pakistani army as if they were Delta or SAS. I think Musharref is just as deluded as him... :bash:

[Marmot1]

i used to work with a retired Pakistani sargeant, and he spoke about the Pakistani army as if they were Delta or SAS. I think Musharref is just as deluded as him... :bash:

Well remember they had 3 wars in last 50 years so they certanly have some experience

[wulfstan]

True. He had total contempt for the Indians, but then again i met plenty of Indians who thought the Pakistanis were unrully rabble with no discipline, all off the back of the Kashmir troubles i suppose.

[ShadowNeo]

Relations between India and Pakistan seem to be the best in a long time though, judging from the latest cricket tour :D.

[wulfstan]

If only it was that simple! :(

[fdt]

True. He had total contempt for the Indians, but then again i met plenty of Indians who thought the Pakistanis were unrully rabble with no discipline, all off the back of the Kashmir troubles i suppose.One thing is 4 sure, they (India and Pakistan) have the best and unique experiences in high mountain warfare... Higher was only the fight of Sir Hillary with his diarrhea...

[LordHalbert]

Airborne249 earlier claimed that Pakistanis were Arabs.

By this I infer that he/she meant "Most Pakistanis (more than 50%) are Arabs".

This is ethnic make up of Pakistan according to http://www.mapzones.com/world/asia/pakistan/peopleindex.php:

The Punjabis constitute the majority, with more than 55 percent of the population; the Sindhis account for another 20 percent, the Pathans and the mujahirs for about 10 percent each, and the Balochs for about 5 percent.

Pakistan has at least 20 different languages and multiple ethnic groups.

Thus, it is my conclusion that Airborne249's statement is probably incorrect.

[fdt]

Thus, it is my conclusion that Airborne249's statement is probably incorrect.Go further... it's completely false. Good ol' CIA World factbook says:

Ethnic groups:
Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun (Pathan), Baloch, Muhajir (immigrants from India at the time of partition and their descendants)

Languages:
Punjabi 48%, Sindhi 12%, Siraiki (a Punjabi variant) 10%, Pashtu 8%, Urdu (official) 8%, Balochi 3%, Hindko 2%, Brahui 1%, English (official and lingua franca of Pakistani elite and most government ministries), Burushaski, and other 8%

Pakistan is separated from the Arab populated areas by Iranian/Persian inhabited land. It never was a subject of Arab domination or conquest... even the Arab language (as it is the language of the Koran) is not a spoken language there, but smth like latin in Medieval Europe - lithurgical one. It 's elementary...

[Maverick77]

Do any of you understand that I said Pakistanis are arabs in bold just so you could get whatever satisfaction you get from telling people they are wrong on the internet.

****.......

[Maverick77]

you want Evidence?

Gulf War 1
Gulf War 2
All Arab Israeli wars
Conventional Battles U.S vs Taliban The Taliban aren't Arabs either. Go back to high school.


The Taliban is full of Arabs who said they were all Afghans

[usa320]

That is true indeed.

Very few member of the Taliban or Al Queda are actually Afghani. Most are Yemeni, Pakistani, saudi, Iranian, Iraqi or Jordanian.

[ShadowNeo]

I think you are confused as to exactly what the Taliban and Al Qaeda are.

[Vance]

That is true indeed.

Very few member of the Taliban or Al Queda are actually Afghani. Most are Yemeni, Pakistani, saudi, Iranian, Iraqi or Jordanian.
Not totally true - The Taliban do have many Afghanis in their ranks, along with the countries you listed. They just called themselves 'Afghani Arabs'.

[Maverick77]

I think you are confused as to exactly what the Taliban and Al Qaeda are.

Why do you have to argue with every stupid little thing

The Taliban are not a country they are a movement inside a country.


anyone who was remotely interested in the **** they did went to Afghanistan to join them.

tens of thousands of arabs included.

[ShadowNeo]

Why do you have to argue with every stupid little thing

If people didn't post stupid things I wouldn't have to :D .

[ariweiner]

The Taliban are virtually all Afghans, the only exception being the so called foreign Taliban who composed the so-called 55th Brigade.
From CSIS(October 2001):

2. Al Qaeda and the "55th Brigade"

One of the forgotten dimensions of the war is the role that Al Qaeda's regular military forces, along with Pakistani volunteers, play in supporting and stiffening the Taliban. Al Qaeda is not simply a terrorist organization. It trains and equips regular forces to fight with the Taliban. Al Qaeda attempts to use Arabicized versions of U.S. and British ranger and special forces training methods. Some put the nominal strength of these forces--sometimes called the "55th Brigade" in the West and "055 Brigade" in the region--at 5,000 men. But the actual strength of trained fighters may be anywhere from 1,500 to 3,000 men, and the total volunteer base could be as high as 7,000-including volunteers who have joined since September 11th.

These forces usually dress as Afghans and can be found with Taliban troops, not in training camps or Al Qaeda's "terrorist" facilities. They are composed of Arabs from Algeria, Egypt, Libya and the Gulf and also include some radical Uzbeks and Tajiks. This unit has trained some of the Uzbeks in the IMU, as well as some Uighurs and Chechens. It also has some volunteers serving in Kashmir. These forces have been supplied not only by Al Qaeda but also by the ISI in Pakistan. They are reported to have modern communications, commercial night vision equipment, advanced Western sniper rifles and night sights, and some light spotter aircraft. Their major support facilities-including a dedicated airstrip-are reported to be around Kandahar.

[ariweiner]

...