Journalist says al-Qaida has briefcase nukes

[Seraphim]

SYDNEY, Australia - Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s terror network claims to have bought ready-made nuclear weapons on the black market in central Asia, the biographer of al-Qaida's No. 2 leader was quoted as telling an Australian television station.



In an interview scheduled to be televised on Monday, Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir said Ayman al-Zawahri claimed that "smart briefcase bombs" were available on the black market.


It was not clear when the interview between Mir and al-Zawahri took place.


U.S. intelligence agencies have long believed that al-Qaida attempted to acquire a nuclear device on the black market, but say there is no evidence it was successful.


In the interview with Australian Broadcasting Corp. television, parts of which were released Sunday, Mir recalled telling al-Zawahri it was difficult to believe that al-Qaida had nuclear weapons when the terror network didn't have the equipment to maintain or use them.


"Dr Ayman al-Zawahri laughed and he said `Mr. Mir, if you have $30 million, go to the black market in central Asia, contact any disgruntled Soviet scientist, and a lot of ... smart briefcase bombs are available,'" Mir said in the interview.


"They have contacted us, we sent our people to Moscow, to Tashkent, to other central Asian states and they negotiated, and we purchased some suitcase bombs," Mir quoted al-Zawahri as saying.


Al-Qaida has never hidden its interest in acquiring nuclear weapons.


The U.S. federal indictment of bin Laden charges that as far back as 1992 he "and others known and unknown, made efforts to obtain the components of nuclear weapons."


Bin Laden, in a November 2001 interview with a Pakistani journalist, boasted having hidden such components "as a deterrent." And in 1998, a Russian nuclear weapons design expert was investigated for allegedly working with bin Laden's Taliban allies.


It was revealed last month that Pakistan's top nuclear scientist had sold sensitive equipment and nuclear technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea (news - web sites), fueling fears the information could have also fallen into the hands of terrorists.


Earlier, Mir told Australian media that al-Zawahri also claimed to have visited Australia to recruit militants and collect funds.


"In those days, in early 1996, he was on a mission to organize his network all over the world," Mir was quoted as saying. "He told me he stopped for a while in Darwin (in northern Australia), he was ... looking for help and collecting funds."


Australia's Attorney-General Philip Ruddock said the government could not rule out the possibility that al-Zawahri visited Australia in the 1990s under a different name.


"Under his own name or any known alias he hasn't traveled to Australia," Ruddock told reporters Saturday. "That doesn't mean to say that he may not have come under some other false documentation, or some other alias that's not known to us."


Mir describe al-Zawahri as "the real brain behind Osama bin Laden."


"He is the real strategist, Osama bin Laden is only a front man," Mir was quoted as saying during the interview. "I think he is more dangerous than bin Laden."





Al-Zawahri — an Egyptian surgeon — is believed to be hiding in the rugged region around the Pakistan-Afghan border where U.S. and Pakistani troops are conducting a major operation against Taliban and al-Qaida forces.

He is said to have played a leading role in orchestrating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

[Argyll]

Now this will be interesting!

[scm77]

Well if we go after these guys and try to stop them, they might use it on us. Best to just leave them alone. :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

[fdt]

If someone uses this sh*it, we are back in the Middle-Ages. Right where those guys want to see all mankind.

[fdt]

Well if we go after these guys and try to stop them, they might use it on us. Best to just leave them alone. :cantbeli: :cantbeli: Great thinking... I have nothing more 2 add :cantbeli: . Well, that's a good reason to colonize Mars.

[usa320]

To be honest i doubt its true, but there is a remote possibilty it is.


Even if they did have them, there group is disorganized and half of what it was...they probably wouldnt even have the resources to use them. Smuggling a nuclear bomb into the US is now next to impossible.


And if they did use em, they would be ****ed.

[Ichhabe]

And if they did use em, they would be f***.

Yeah! You go tell them that. I'm quite sure they will see the madness in the situation and turn them self in. ;)

[scm77]

Would there be mass casualties? I've heard on tv that a dirty bomb wouldn't be used for mass casualties, it's more of a pyschological terror device because people think "Oh my god, there using nuclear bombs". Nobody wants to go to visit a city that had a nuclear bomb detonate in it, they think they'll get cancer etc.

But then you see hiroshima and that was a nuclear bomb but certainly not just a small explosion for pyschological effects.

Is there a difference between nuclear bombs, and dirty bombs and what would a briefacase bomb do?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

A dirty bomb would hurt more economically then it wouldnt hurt people, it probably would kill the stockmarket and cause panic and chaos among citizens.

A nuclear bomb is just straight suicide, these guys fully know that as soon as it reaches that stage the "gloves are off" so to speak. If they had it more then likely they would try to blackmail some country with it....

I doubt they have it though, althought the Russian Suitcase Nuclear bombs have been going "missing" from time to time.

[Herrmannek]

Nukes-Big Boom
Briefcase Nukes-Still Big Boom, but served by "man in black"
Dirty Bomb- almost Normal Boom, but with radioactive materials instead of nails, sometimes if enough(critical mass) of clean material. There is try to start chainreaction, so maybe little biger boom with some additional extreme radioactivity from it...

[EODSGT]

A briefcase bomb would be a device that produces a nuclear yield, i.e. a mushroom cloud. They are known as IND's - Improvised Nuclear Devices. Even an actual warhead type nuc repackaged for use would meet this definition.

An RDD, Radiation Dispersal Device is a type of IND and can be either an explosively driven "dirty bomb" (primarily causing alpha or beta contamination) or a device designed to achieve criticality without a yeild, causing massive release of radiation (gamma, x-ray, etc).

All of these would cause significant casualties, and meet the criteria to be defined as WMD's.

The dirty bomb's effects are just not as immediate as the other two devices.

Hope this helped.

[Resevoir Hogs]

A nuclear explosion is FAR different from a dirty bomb detonation.

Nuclear weapons range in size from small, 1.8 kilotones at Hiroshima. To large, Ivy Mike 10 megatones (10 000 kilotones) at the Bikini Atoll test site in the pacific. These weapons' main effect is the flash and fireball which depending on the yield of the weapon could be enough to engulf only Manhattan Island or with a megatone device all of the Tristate area, suburbs included. They of course have radioactive fallout that cause many more casualties.

A dirty bomb is simply radioactive material along with a conventional explosive designed to spread radiation and cause people to get sick or die from rad sickness. It is not designed to cause the mass incineration of cities but instead slowly kills people with radiation.

Whether or not Al Queda has a suitcase nuclear device or not is scetchy. There isn't really that much information on a suitcase sized weapon from either the US or Former Soviet Union. What they have admitted to designing are rucksack sized nukes with a kilotonne yield. hardly a suitcase bomb. These could have been carried into enemy territory by airborne troops.

I hope that they do not have such weapons. Though if they do use such a device they can rest assured that we will retaliate. If we would use nuclear weapons or not is another question. It seems very hard to retaliate against an enemy that has no national loyalties. Perhaps we could just turn Saudi Arabia and Iran into parking lots and say if they do it again they can kiss Yemen and the Sudan goodbye? Hopefully none of this will come to pass.

[MK133]

Just take out anyone with a breifcase that is iffy looking.

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/news/Siers2002/Siers/siers%208.jpg

[Argyll]

To be honest i doubt its true, but there is a remote possibilty it is.


Even if they did have them, there group is disorganized and half of what it was...they probably wouldnt even have the resources to use them. Smuggling a nuclear bomb into the US is now next to impossible.


And if they did use em, they would be f***.

What about coming in throgh Mexico?

[Herrmannek]

What about coming in throgh Mexico?

I'm sure it can't go trough pass contole because there are detectors with would find radioactivity from your teth filling, so only "desert" left, but any kind of mentioned bombs is far beyond possibilities of one person to cary, car probably will be spoted, dismantling it and smugling in parts is great risk because many passes make catching possibility very big..Not so easybut still possible

[EODSGT]

Hundreds of TONS of illegal drugs enter the US every year. Brining an IND in using the same routes/techniques is quite possible. All the RADSAT and sensor coverage only goes so far.

The big saying in WMD response is "it's not a matter of if, it's matter of when".

Scary, huh.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

What about coming in throgh Mexico?

There was a show on tv in the US.
I think it was called "Threat Matrix"

One episode invisioned just such a scenario.
An Iraqi scientist, played by the actress who played Deanna Troi on Star Trek Next Generation, was
smuggling a weapon (poison gas, I think) in through Mexico.
It didn't seem particularly scary. Maybe the acting was just unconvincing.

[Argyll]

What about coming in throgh Mexico?

There was a show on tv in the US.
I think it was called "Threat Matrix"

One episode invisioned just such a scenario.
An Iraqi scientist, played by the actress who played Deanna Troi on Star Trek Next Generation, was
smuggling a weapon (poison gas, I think) in through Mexico.
It didn't seem particularly scary. Maybe the acting was just unconvincing.

I never seen that one?

[Herrmannek]

Hundreds of TONS of illegal drugs enter the US every year. Brining an IND in using the same routes/techniques is quite possible. All the RADSAT and sensor coverage only goes so far.

The big saying in WMD response is "it's not a matter of if, it's matter of when".

Scary, huh.

There is one problem: drugs doesn't glow

[EODSGT]

Neither does radioactive material. your point?

[Gordon]

I think someone's watched a few too many episodes of the simpsons and Homer playing with some glowing green rods ... :roll:

[Herrmannek]

Neither does radioactive material. your point?

My point is they are radioactive so hiding it and smugling is much harder and many ways drug dealer uses are closed for them...and you can't swallow briefcase nuke :)

[EODSGT]

Think about this carefully. Do you think I was refering to the method of using "mules" to transport fissile material or a weapon?

[fdt]

Gentlemen, impossible near to impossible...

Smuggling of this sh*it into US is possible (not mentioning EU countries). Very hard task, but possible. No security measure taken by a man can prevent another man from trying and eventually overcoming it... It's like with assassinations, some are 99,99% safe (like US president) but no man can be virtually 100% safe... I see no reasons to be calm. They bought (???) this stuff not just to have it...

World will have to change.

[Herrmannek]

Think about this carefully. Do you think I was refering to the method of using "mules" to transport fissile material or a weapon?

Not! of coze not :) this was joke. But you must admit that smugling WMDs is much harder than smugling drugs:
-You probably can't bribe the clerck,
-You can't use official border passes because of very sensitive detective devices
-You will probably not use people who smugle drugs because, their bissness isn't in engaging in WWIII, they aren't sure, but your action must be TOP SECRET to the last Boom..
etc...

[von_Moo142]

A briefcase bomb would be a device that produces a nuclear yield, i.e. a mushroom cloud. They are known as IND's - Improvised Nuclear Devices. Even an actual warhead type nuc repackaged for use would meet this definition.

In the context, and I realise that this area is far from clear, a suitcase bomb would be a man-portable nulcear weapon. Not a radiological weapon. As you say, it would produce a nuclear yield.

However, small light wieght physics packages are amoung the hardest to design and make, so an improvised suitcase bamb would be difficult. Of course, there's no reason you couldn't take an old nuclear arty shell and use that (apart from having to bypass the safty devices), but it would hardly be man portable.

AFAIK all (or most) small nuclear warheads were removed form the stockpiles a while back anyway. of course that doesn't necessarily mean they are destroyed...

And it would be much more difficult for a so called rogue nation to produce small or low yield devices.



An RDD, Radiation Dispersal Device is a type of IND and can be either an explosively driven "dirty bomb" (primarily causing alpha or beta contamination) or a device designed to achieve criticality without a yeild, causing massive release of radiation (gamma, x-ray, etc).

I would question the use of the term IND for the first type of weapon you describe here.


Its interesting to consider using fissile material to make a radiological weapon which achives dispersal via rapid heating from a subcritical reaction. I wonder if it could be made to work well?

You could even use solution phase plutonium salts, and I guess with a reasonably strong casing you could make a pretty nasty "fizzle". Of course, you cant just buy plutonium any any form, but given a bunch of people willing to die for a cause you could extract it from a bunch of spent fuel rods by fairly crude chemical methods. This would be much easier for a terrorist organisation than constructing a plutonium based physics package, as the gun bomb design cannot be used.


I'm not a big fan of calling radiological weapons dirty bombs either. That used to mean somthing completly different, and every time I see the media use that phrase it makes me cringe.

[EODSGT]

this is a converstation - not a pissing contest, no harm - no foul :D

[EODSGT]

von_Moo142,

WTF? I wasn't talking about using the subcritical reaction do diperse the material. I was refering to acheiving a reaction short of detonation to clandestinely dose the **** out of a population.
Where are you getting your info? What are the safety devices on a Nuc arty shell? Small warheads taken out of the inventory - whose inventory?

What are your quals and creds? I'll list mine. Unlike the VAST majority of people on this board I actually do this **** for a living.

[usa320]

Bottom line is, it would be difficult to smuggle one into the US, but not impossible. So the only way to keep it from happening is to take the fight to the terrorists first. Kill them before they can kill us.

[Herrmannek]

von_Moo142,

WTF? I wasn't talking about using the subcritical reaction do diperse the material. I was refering to acheiving a reaction short of detonation to clandestinely dose the **** out of a population.
Where are you getting your info? What are the safety devices on a Nuc arty shell? Small warheads taken out of the inventory - whose inventory?

What are your quals and creds? I'll list mine. Unlike the VAST majority of people on this board I actually do this **** for a living.

Man you must be one of the guys from bulbfighter or torchfighter forum :)

[EODSGT]

Herrmannek,

I don't know what those forums are, care to enlighten me?

[Herrmannek]

Herrmannek,

I don't know what those forums are, care to enlighten me?

This is one forum(those strange names were to chceck your sense of humor).
I think it fits more your super profesional intersts :). We are mainly bunch of military geeks. They state they are higly selected/trained/educated/experienced operators of many services(retired and active). So if you like such climates you should check it...

http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x

[EODSGT]

I already frequent the SOCNET. I'm shouldn't jump in anyone's ass. I violated my own rule about taking it easy here. Nothing online is life or death. I'll try to lighten up a tad, Sorry to all! :cantbeli:

[SOG]

What about coming in throgh Mexico?

There was a show on tv in the US.
I think it was called "Threat Matrix"

One episode invisioned just such a scenario.
An Iraqi scientist, played by the actress who played Deanna Troi on Star Trek Next Generation, was
smuggling a weapon (poison gas, I think) in through Mexico.
It didn't seem particularly scary. Maybe the acting was just unconvincing.

I never seen that one?

i forget what happened in the end. thats the only show of that series ive seen. i know they found her lab in the middle east somewhere, profiled her, captured her, but then the unknown was that she or her driving acomplice had stored the chemicals in a truck crossing the border that regularly services something in the US with cannisters of some sort, like to fill up baloons or something, so he got across easy after they snaked the driver. they put the chemical in the truck hhhidden in the canisters.

personally usa320, i dont think it would be hard to sneak into the US with a small amount of funds because mexicans do it everyday, sometimes without food and water. now getting somewhere could be a bit more problematic but if you have or found one crooked person which is willing to ferry a couple of you to a major city near the border than that city could pop. or if you simply had a contact on the other side in which you could arrange pickup in a multitude of hard to detect ways. then theres also canada in which there are manyw ays to get in and also from water ports.

i have heard the term brief case nukes and chemicals like anthrax, eboli, plague whatever, thrown around in the media for quite some time since 911 but nothing has happened despite how many people said how easy it would be to get from any number of terror aligned nations or leftover items from former ussr/black market. this has led me to believe 1. they dont have em, or 2. we got em back using a jumble of high tech and unknown programs, (remote viewing or even satelites that can sniff for chemical trails and or hard working peoplpe with a little luck) or 3. they are abiding thier time for a better oppurtunity.

[von_Moo142]

Edited to put my quote boxes in the right places...


von_Moo142,
What are your quals and creds? I'll list mine. Unlike the VAST majority of people on this board I actually do this **** for a living.

If you do this for a living, and I don't care if you do or don't (and I have no wish to debate that either), then surely you don't need to prove anything, least of all to anonymous poeple on an internet forum like me. I don't expect you or anyone else to.

I'm not going to go into my quaifications.

Now back to the real disscussion :-)



WTF? I wasn't talking about using the subcritical reaction do diperse the material. I was refering to acheiving a reaction short of detonation to clandestinely dose the **** out of a population.


I realise that you weren't talking about using the subcritical reaction to dispearse the fissile material, just to create a bunch of gamma radiation and a few neutrons. Not a nice scenario, but the casulties would be limited. I guess the advantage would be that you could do this more than once, and in different locations.

But one could disperse the material too, which would be even nastier. There are several documented subcritical accidents which involved escape of some of the fissile material from the immediate contianment, due to buildup of the heat generated in a contained area. I'll dig out some reports at some point... Short of aeorosol dispersal of a highly active isotope over a major city, this is the most effective "dirty bomb" idea I can think up.



Where are you getting your info?

There is a lot of public information on nukes. And conceptually, it's not that hard to understand.

I like this site: http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/

It goes into the science a little if you look at the right bits.


What are the safety devices on a Nuc arty shell?

I can't give a reliable answer to that. I guess the US used the PAL system in some part of the weapon system as a whole. There would also probably be accelerometers. I'm sure that both the USSR and the US had safety systems for this type of battlefield weapon though.


Small warheads taken out of the inventory - whose inventory?

The USA and Russia [USSR]. The whole suitcase bomb issue is only speculation anyway, at least in the public domain.

[HELEX]

If they have it, they will use it without delay. :|

[EODSGT]

von_Moo142,

You're right, I don't have anything to prove - hence my apology above. It won't happen again.

[von_Moo142]

No problem :-) I didn't think you were out of line or whatever anyway.

[Herrmannek]

:hug: