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View Full Version : Vandals drain desert water tanks intended for illegal immigrants



Geezah
06-15-2006, 09:20 AM
"We try to save people from dying from dehydration," said Paula Mich, a volunteer with Humane Borders.

Mich, along with hundreds of other Humane Borders volunteers, travels into the wilderness each day to refill tanks with water meant for the lips of illegal immigrants crossing the border.

Marked with a blue flag, the jugs are placed deep in the desert just outside Tucson in areas where volunteers say the most illegal immigrants have died from dehydration.

"We save lives by doing this," said Humane Borders Volunteer Frank Saavedra. "I don't know how many, but if it's only one it's worth it."

Not everyone agrees with Humane Borders placing water tanks in areas heavily trafficked by illegal immigrants.

Mich says vandals have been coming out to the water stations, pulling the caps off the tanks and dumping the water out into the desert.

The volunteers also say vandals are destroying the blue flags that fly atop 30-foot poles in the middle of the desert -- flags the immigrants look for when seeking out a water station on their journeys.

"Flags have been destroyed, and not in this station but in others. They've put bullet holes [the water tanks]," Mich said.

Mich also says each week Humane Borders finds at least one or more of their 70 water tanks vandalized, an act these volunteers say can kill.

"If they're planning on getting their water at that location and they get there and there's no water, then the next time they could get water could be not before they die," Saavedra said.

Russ Dove, a local immigration activist, says he understands why people trash the tanks.

"The vandal issue is a sign that Americans have had enough," Dove said, "and from observation, I think it's only going to get worse."

Dove says Humane Borders is helping illegal immigrants, some he calls criminals, cross the border safely.

"These are robbers, rapists, murders. This is simply aiding and abetting criminal activity," Dove said.

The volunteers, however, say the border crossers are innocent, crossing in search of a better life.

"We're going to continue to do this regardless of how many empty tanks we find," Mich said. "We're going to continue to do this."

Link (http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=5030576)

Maybe Mich should go into Mexico and preach there, he could let potential border crosses know about the dangers faced when entering into the US illegally and the lack of water in the desert.

Fargin
06-15-2006, 09:23 AM
All americans are immigrants, even the native ones are treated so.

Geezah
06-15-2006, 09:27 AM
All americans are immigrants, even the native ones are treated so.

So how far back do we go, because the same train of thought could be applied to the UK.

oldsoak
06-15-2006, 10:33 AM
I dont like the idea of people dying of thirst - illegals immigrants they may be, but dying of thirst is a bad way to go for folks looking for a better future. I dont hold with encouraging people to break the law of the land either. Mebbe these sites should be watched - that way at least the illegals can be treated humanely prior to deportation. Hard ? - yes, but at least its not cruel.

dedgod
06-15-2006, 10:36 AM
All americans are immigrants, even the native ones are treated so.
Theyre *LEGAL* immigrants...

But i do agree with what Humane Borders is trying to do...

WarriorMonk
06-15-2006, 10:45 AM
to play devil's advocate, having no water in the desert serves as a good deterrent to illegal border crossings...

effective, but probably cruel...but can only increase human smuggling.

Geezah
06-15-2006, 10:56 AM
It's a shame these guys weren't around when I considered swimming to America prior to realizing I could get my Green Card, wouldn't have wanted to drown as that would have been a cruel death.

oldsoak
06-15-2006, 11:04 AM
It's a shame these guys weren't around when I considered swimming to America prior to realizing I could get my Green Card, wouldn't have wanted to drown as that would have been a cruel death.

- b*llocks - you wanted to work your passage on a tramp steamer - we know all about you :lol:

Daniel San
06-15-2006, 11:22 AM
Well, that's pretty evil. Even if illegal immigration is a big problem, it's quite a twisted way to solve it.

demotivater
06-15-2006, 12:00 PM
Someone should park getaway cars outside banks in case a robber forgets to bring one.

2Sheds_Jackson
06-15-2006, 12:02 PM
Humane Borders is the problem here. They need to make the border crossing even easier. It's cruel to put up flimsy structures that are hard to find - they should construct paved roads that cross from Mexico into the US - with restrooms, air conditioned parlors where people can escape the heat, changing stations for the little ones, etc.

Also, by building legitimate infrastructure, we can be assured that the proper environmental controls are in place. For instance, right now, where is all the human waste going that is excreted by the Mexicans? Currently this is just spilled out onto US soil, creating a potential environmental disaster!

By only doing half a job, Humane Borders is drawing people out into the wastes to meet their doom, and endangering our planet.

oldsoak
06-15-2006, 12:11 PM
Hehe.
No one in their right mind wants people to die in the desert - they just want 'em back in Mexico and not in the US. Thats why I say pick 'em up by the water stops, see that they are ok and send 'em back. You dont want pictures of some little kid lying dead next to a vadalised water station to play to the gallery.

Geezah
06-15-2006, 12:44 PM
You dont want pictures of some little kid lying dead next to a vadalised water station to play to the gallery.

And that would somehow be the fault of the USA???????

If there are no water stations, then maybe less illegals(hopefully none) will take a chance at crossing the border.

Daniel San
06-15-2006, 12:53 PM
And that would somehow be the fault of the USA???????

If there are no water stations, then maybe less illegals(hopefully none) will take a chance at crossing the border.

So your action or inaction is guided by whether or not you would be blamed for it?

Sure it would only be the immigrant's fault if he was to die of thirst while trying to cross the desert but given the opportunity to prevent his death you wouldn't because you couldn't be blamed for it, right? Because after all, he's an evil criminal only coming to the US to commit crime and steal jobs from real Americans.

godfather
06-15-2006, 01:00 PM
Because after all, he's an evil criminal only coming to the US to commit crime and steal jobs from real Americans.

I think you should talk to the all the families of people that have been victimized by illegal aliens, then you might have a different view. If we were to remove all crimes committed by people that in theory should not be here, we would be significantly better off.

Geezah
06-15-2006, 01:07 PM
So your action or inaction is guided by whether or not you would be blamed for it?

My not doing anything to help a criminal break the law is guided by the fact I will not help a criminal break the law! If they want in this country so bad, then do what I did and get to the back of the line.



Sure it would only be the immigrant's fault if he was to die of thirst while trying to cross the desert but given the opportunity to prevent his death you wouldn't because you couldn't be blamed for it, right? Because after all, he's an evil criminal only coming to the US to commit crime and steal jobs from real Americans.

You know what, this just winds me up to no end, there was a little girl raped by one of these criminals here in Ohio a few months back. The house where he was staying is no longer there, due to the locals burning it down. Lucky for him he took flight before they managed to get to him. There have been a few illegals that have broken the law here in Ohio.
All this bs harping on about helping the illegals, well frcuk them, no-one forced their hand to break the law, and if they choose to break the law then they should be fully prepared for what ever they come across in the desert.

oldsoak
06-15-2006, 01:10 PM
And that would somehow be the fault of the USA???????

If there are no water stations, then maybe less illegals(hopefully none) will take a chance at crossing the border.

Geezah, think of the PR. Nothing makes people more sentimental than a dead kid trying to make it to a better life. Work out which side you want people pitching for.
I'm not saying take them in - I'm saying show them some kind of mercy - youre lucky, you made it in the US. They want a chance, and you cant blame them for wanting. All I'm suggesting is stake out these areas, give 'em water for pity's sake and send 'em home.

Abolith
06-15-2006, 01:14 PM
So your action or inaction is guided by whether or not you would be blamed for it?

Sure it would only be the immigrant's fault if he was to die of thirst while trying to cross the desert but given the opportunity to prevent his death you wouldn't because you couldn't be blamed for it, right? Because after all, he's an evil criminal only coming to the US to commit crime and steal jobs from real Americans.


you really need to shut your trap about **** you know nothing about. two days ago Operation Return to sender grabbed 2179 illegals and of those the operation caught more than 140 immigrants with convictions for serious ****** offenses against children and 367 known gang members of MS-13.

thats is 6% *** offenders and 15.5% violent gang members. We don't want the kind of crap in our country, maybe you would like to give them a home in yours?

Geezah
06-15-2006, 01:20 PM
Geezah, think of the PR. Nothing makes people more sentimental than a dead kid trying to make it to a better life. Work out which side you want people pitching for.
I'm not saying take them in - I'm saying show them some kind of mercy - youre lucky, you made it in the US. They want a chance, and you cant blame them for wanting. All I'm suggesting is stake out these areas, give 'em water for pity's sake and send 'em home.


Rape Spurs Anti-Hispanic Backlash in Ohio


It started with the spray-painted, misspelled “Rapest” on the house of a Hispanic man accused of ******** assaulting a 9-year-old white girl. Then the house went up in flames in a suspected arson.

Confrontations, name-calling and threats against Hispanics followed. Men roamed the streets wearing pillowcases with eye holes, and Ku Klux Klansmen in hoods and robes showed up to pass out pamphlets. There were rumors of assaults and beatings.

Now this small Ohio river city’s booming Hispanic population is cowed, the streets in their neighborhoods nearly deserted.

Hamilton has been a hotbed for Hispanic growth in a state that has
lagged behind much of the nation in Hispanic population. The number of Hispanics here jumped fivefold in the 1990s, to 1,566, and is now
estimated at 4,000 or more in a city of some 61,000.

For the most part, the immigrants had settled in without much
controversy in Hamilton, whose mayor in the 1990s was of Cuban descent. But life here was transformed on June 19, when a 9-year-old Caucasian girl was raped, allegedly by a Hispanic man who has apparently fled the city.

While the anti-Hispanic backlash has stunned many of the immigrants,
some say they’ve felt racial prejudice here before. The Rev. Eustaquio Recalde, a native of Paraguay, says he was often harassed and ridiculed while working a factory job as the lone Hispanic employee.

“I think it’s been around,” Recalde said. “This was an opportunity for a few people to express it.”

Ezra Escudero, executive director of the Ohio Commission on
Hispanic/Latino Affairs in Columbus, says Hamilton is not alone in
feeling tension in a state where the Hispanic population has doubled to nearly 280,000 since 1990.

“The challenge for the community is whether the tragedy will bring out the best or the worst in people,” he said.

Shelly Jarrett Bromberg, an assistant professor of Spanish and Latin
American studies at Miami University in Oxford, has helped organize two community forums since the fire. She called the Hamilton unrest an important moment for local Hispanics, churches, police and public officials.

“I think everyone realizes that we need to have a dialogue … to make the community feel safe and feel that they have a voice,” Bromberg said. “I think there are a lot of people who want to make this work out.”


Link (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/07/rape_spurs_anti.php)

This is just one of the reasons I could care less what happens to them in the desert, and no, I'm not racist or support the KKK.

Daniel San
06-15-2006, 01:23 PM
Geezah, you know I'm not asking to help illegal immigrants break the law. I also understand that some illegal immigrants are criminals and will commit more crimes in the US. But, put simply, letting people die of thirst isn't very christian-like. Send them back, yes, but don't let them die of thirst.

Abolith, I hadn't heard about those figures. :-(

Geezah
06-15-2006, 01:28 PM
Geezah, you know I'm not asking to help illegal immigrants break the law. I also understand that some illegal immigrants are criminals and will commit more crimes in the US. But, put simply, letting people die of thirst isn't very christian-like. Send them back, yes, but don't let them die of thirst.

By trying to convince me that I should support water stations is the same as asking me help them break the law.
Christian like or not, I cannot and will not condone helping them enter the country illegally.

Rather than send them back, promote the fact there may not be anything to send back when their carcass is pulled out of the desert.

Daniel San
06-15-2006, 01:33 PM
Well Geezah, it seems we won't achieve consent on this one but the dried carcass, imo, would make a powerful no trespassing sign.

Geezah
06-15-2006, 01:38 PM
but the dried carcass, imo, would make a powerful no trespassing sign.

Yes it would..........if they came here and it was proven that they never broke the law once they entered, I would probably be abit more accommodating but as of yet, I can't say this is the case.

Daniel San
06-15-2006, 01:47 PM
Well I guess that sums it up.

Take care man.

2Sheds_Jackson
06-15-2006, 01:53 PM
There's a reason why criminal law provides for penalties for simply assisting in the commission of a crime. It's because we recognize, as a culture and nation, that if you are helping somebody break the law, that you are morally and legally responsible, at least in part, for the commission of that crime.

The answer to this can't be to pick them up at the watering hole - after doing that for a week, they will simply avoid the watering hole, and we'll be back to square 1. These are largely the same people, over and over again - and sneaking into the US is an industry in Mexico. The Mexican government publishes pamphlets telling people how to do it. It would take no time it all for word to spread, and the watering holes to be avoided.

IMHO the real answer here is to show people who sneak across, with 100% certainty, that they are not welcome, that they cannot and will not find work, and that they are endangering themselves for nothing. They'll catch on pretty quickly.

Geezah
06-15-2006, 01:57 PM
Yep, just like the ones I dealt with at Rent-A-Center, you mention Police and all of a sudden they speak English real good.

Daniel San
06-15-2006, 01:58 PM
Yep, just like the ones I dealt with at Rent-A-Center, you mention Police and all of a sudden they speak English real good.


:) That's the way.

AFJROTC55
06-15-2006, 02:55 PM
this is a tricky one, as much of an anti illegal immigration guy i am, on the other hand, i cant just let people die like that, really, the only ones i have sympathy for, are the kids, it's not they're fault

1*

Laworkerbee
06-15-2006, 06:50 PM
I don't want Illegal immigrants dying in the desert criminal or not doesn't matter to me since I believe we are better than that folks!These folks handing out water and creating stations need to go to jail or pay fines for aiding and abetting criminals. The government should be setting up water stations since the government is responsible for this situation, instead it is turning activists into criminals.

The border needs to be secured period

oldsoak
06-15-2006, 07:18 PM
I don't want Illegal immigrants dying in the desert criminal or not doesn't matter to me since I believe we are better than that folks!These folks handing out water and creating stations need to go to jail or pay fines for aiding and abetting criminals. The government should be setting up water stations since the government is responsible for this situation, instead it is turning activists into criminals.

The border needs to be secured period

At last somebody has at least a modicum of compassion.
If you have ever been without water, you get an idea of why its not a good way to go.

Hollis
06-15-2006, 08:31 PM
At last somebody has at least a modicum of compassion.
If you have ever been without water, you get an idea of why its not a good way to go.

Sometimes in the Hoorah of the issue, compassion gets lost.

If everyone played by the rules, the game would be so simple.

paul13usa
06-15-2006, 09:27 PM
Tucson Sector 2000 to 3000 a day




I hope these links are ok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dvnlel9LAo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dvnlel9LAo)

The Tohono O'odham Nation in Arizona, for example, deals with at least 1,500 undocumented migrants every day. The increased traffic has destroyed sacred areas, burial grounds and other sites, the report said, and has made it harder for tribal members to carry on their traditions.

Out of fear for their safety, some tribal members won't go into the wild to gather traditional plants used for food, medicine and cultural items, the report said. "The combined effect has sobering implications for efforts to maintain tribal cultural traditions," the board wrote.

http://www.indianz.com/News/2006/013082.asp (http://www.indianz.com/News/2006/013082.asp)

The board includes one tribal leader -- Ned Norris, the vice president of the Tohono O'odham Nation. The tribe says its health care, law enforcement and social service systems are stressed by undocumented migrants and drug trafficking. Tribal agents seize 300 pounds of drugs every day

Compassion sorry,lost mine

Hollis
06-15-2006, 09:48 PM
Compassion sorry,lost mine

I understand........... it is a mess. Surely the politicians will find the most complicated, Ill affordable, and as$backward way of solving it.

uglybaby
06-15-2006, 09:59 PM
People seem to forget that sneaking into another country illegally will get you shot in a lot of places. It happens to be against the law as well. Remember the word "illegal"? It used to mean something. Now I'm just a racist. The only thing the vandals could do better would be to add some anti freeze to water caches to sweeten it up a bit. I'm all for mines along the border as well. I'm wondering if we should pre position boats or perhaps floating way stations with food and what not for "refugees" from Haiti or Cuba. And for those who never had to fight a deportation proceeding or go to hearings where you didn't know where you might be in 3 days, it sucks. The law was followed, thousands of dollars were shelled out and fortunately the case was thrown out as the judge couldn't understand why one was "mistakenly" filed in the first place. I'm just happy to be here and don't like people skirting what I had to go through.

paul13usa
06-15-2006, 10:20 PM
I have aton of pictures ,i have taking of the damage done to the desert and the stuff i've found that get's left behind.

paul13usa
06-15-2006, 10:25 PM
The one with the kitchen sink was by a shed.Inside the shed was a home made stretcher that they carried a load of drugs in with ******s all over the place

marc780
06-15-2006, 10:26 PM
Mexico can stop illegal crossing of Americans in to Mexico the exact same way. Leave mexican water for Americans to find and drink it. And the Americans will immediately have a bowel explosion of ****, have stomach cramps similar to black plague and go crawling back into the US! That will teach them.
i say dont leave water for the Mexicans, leave ******s. If you cant feed em, dont breed 'em!

mi35d
06-15-2006, 11:27 PM
I'm still waiting for my flaming moat of death along the border.

Con-man
06-16-2006, 05:07 AM
Im going to agree with the removal of water tanks, the illegal immigration issue along the US-Mexico border has been going on for way too long and needs to stop now, however that may be achieved.

paul13usa
06-16-2006, 10:46 AM
I'm still waiting for my flaming moat of death along the border.


You'll wait along time for that one.What we got is Rev Hoover of Humane Borders going into Altar Mexico and handing out maps to show them the water tanks they put out and GRUPO BETA a Mexican Goverment ORG telling them where the Border Patrol is positioned at on any given day

mi35d
06-16-2006, 11:12 AM
So, lets say a particular person wants to rob a bank. Folks like those on the border who justify the ILLEGAL immigrant's breaking of the LAW should help out.

First, they need to justify why the "undocumented money taker" should be allowed to "borrow with the intent not to return" money from the bank.

Next, they should purchase a getaway car and deliver it to the would be criminals...oops! Sorry! "UMT's".

They should then convince the bank manager that allowing the UMT's access to the bank vault is the caring, kind and best thing for everyone concerned. Remember: the UMT's just want to have a better life. Is that so wrong?

Maybe they can throw in a free toaster as well...

paul13usa
06-16-2006, 12:27 PM
mi35d Your a man of few words with alot of meaning ,now if we could just ram that point down the thoarts of our Goverment.You could start with Jaun McCain

If you give them the toaster,they'll want the eletric to plug it in