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Vandervahn
06-16-2006, 09:25 AM
After there was a particular silence towards the larger rifle, HKPRO has a newly put together page concerning the HK417, with new detail pics of the evolved prototype - possibly from Eurosatory.

http://hkpro.com/hk417.htm

Its nice to see that HK apparently opts for up-to-date mags, and that they apparently erased the unloved bolts for connecting magazines of previous G36-design. They should do the same for the HK416 (with optional magwell adapter for STANAG mags).

Steve Andrews
06-16-2006, 09:38 AM
I'd marry the carbine variant.

TacoDelRio
06-16-2006, 10:10 AM
Pretty sweet. Looks like a handy carbine.

Freibier
06-16-2006, 10:39 AM
AR15France!? WTF,O?
The AR15 is the preferred platform for precision semi auto sport shooting in all of europe. Go to a match and the vast majority will be AR15s.
Even the french like them ;)

REMOV
06-16-2006, 11:41 AM
http://www.militech.sownet.pl/inne/_HK417_03.jpg
http://www.militech.sownet.pl/inne/_HK417_04.jpg
http://www.militech.sownet.pl/inne/_HK417_02.jpg
http://www.militech.sownet.pl/inne/_HK417_01.jpg

Ekhm... this magazine? ;)

regards,
REMOV

Vandervahn
06-16-2006, 12:12 PM
...
Ekhm... this magazine? ;)

regards,
REMOV

Yup, that one. By the way, the purpose of shades is to WEAR them, at least buy a new one for a change p-)

dobrodan
06-16-2006, 12:17 PM
Now, do these new mags fit in the G3?

If they do, they would be great for extreme winter-duty, as alu-mags are very heat-conducting, increasing the risk of frost-bite on your fingers.

REMOV
06-16-2006, 04:42 PM
Now, do these new mags fit in the G3?I've asked the same question and the answer was: "No.".

dobrodan
06-16-2006, 05:36 PM
I've asked the same question and the answer was: "No.".

And, the next logical question is: Do the G3 mags fit in the 417???

REMOV
06-16-2006, 05:49 PM
And, the next logical question is: Do the G3 mags fit in the 417?AFAIK the magazines are not interchangeable. So the G3 magazine fits only in the G3 (and prototype version of the HK417) and the HK417 magazine fits only in the HK417.

regards,
REMOV

thatguy96
06-16-2006, 06:11 PM
Sounds like HK. Heavens forbid they should attempt a universal magwell. Hell, there's a whole Standard Agreement to tell them how to do it.

Vandervahn
06-16-2006, 07:45 PM
Sounds more like the voice of reason. Why the hell should it be compatible to a 50 year old mag design? In military/LE terms there is not a single reason in this world why this should be possible, much less since the G3 has been phased ou of most western militaries that ever used it. Personally, I am convinced of the advantages polymer mags have above metal mags, and basically one can always "downgrade" from the larger magwell, so why shouldnt the new magwell be the standard?

And I am not aware of a STANAG concerning 7.62x51mm mags, much less one that focuses around the G3 mags.

gaijinsamurai
06-16-2006, 08:27 PM
Any idea if they will make a version for export to the US? I'd love to have one.

thatguy96
06-16-2006, 11:18 PM
Sounds more like the voice of reason. Why the hell should it be compatible to a 50 year old mag design? In military/LE terms there is not a single reason in this world why this should be possible, much less since the G3 has been phased ou of most western militaries that ever used it. Personally, I am convinced of the advantages polymer mags have above metal mags, and basically one can always "downgrade" from the larger magwell, so why shouldnt the new magwell be the standard?

And I am not aware of a STANAG concerning 7.62x51mm mags, much less one that focuses around the G3 mags.
Unless there's a problem with the G3 magazine's upper specifics it wouldn't be that hard to design a polymer one within the parameters. In fact, since HK has access to those, it would take no time all. It also would've been easy for them to do this for the G36, but they chose not to. They could've easily designed their magazine within the parameters of the Standard Agreement and decided not to. In fact, now HK has produced STANAG 5.56x45mm magazines, that won't even work with their G36 line. Am I the only one who finds this slightly ridiculous? What's wrong with making things backwards compatible?

ZaakM433
06-17-2006, 12:57 AM
Unless there's a problem with the G3 magazine's upper specifics it wouldn't be that hard to design a polymer one within the parameters. In fact, since HK has access to those, it would take no time all. It also would've been easy for them to do this for the G36, but they chose not to. They could've easily designed their magazine within the parameters of the Standard Agreement and decided not to. In fact, now HK has produced STANAG 5.56x45mm magazines, that won't even work with their G36 line. Am I the only one who finds this slightly ridiculous? What's wrong with making things backwards compatible?

Look where it got windows... plenty of backwards compatability - problems built upon problems... no security whatsoever... CRAP.

ClydeFrog
06-17-2006, 04:04 AM
Sounds like HK. Heavens forbid they should attempt a universal magwell. Hell, there's a whole Standard Agreement to tell them how to do it.
And what exactly would that standard magwell for a 7.62x51mm magazine be? That of the M14, that of the FAL or that of the G3?

There is no such thing as a standard 7.62 NATO magazine.

Unless there's a problem with the G3 magazine's upper specifics it wouldn't be that hard to design a polymer one within the parameters. In fact, since HK has access to those, it would take no time all. It also would've been easy for them to do this for the G36, but they chose not to. They could've easily designed their magazine within the parameters of the Standard Agreement and decided not to. In fact, now HK has produced STANAG 5.56x45mm magazines, that won't even work with their G36 line. Am I the only one who finds this slightly ridiculous? What's wrong with making things backwards compatible?The G3 mag doesn't have a magazine follower--> no bolt-catch. That and the fact that the G3 is rather rare in US military or LE use (if there is any use of them at all) means you might aswell make new and better magazines for your new rifle.

The STANAG 5.56mm is a whole different thing. Even though HK makes those and sells them for horrendous prices doesn't mean they are switching back to them in the long run. Look at Steyr, SIGARMS... they also make their own magazines. Although they too have versions of their guns for STANAG mags, they sell them mostly to the US market.

REMOV
06-17-2006, 05:23 AM
Sounds like HK. Heavens forbid they should attempt a universal magwell. Hell, there's a whole Standard Agreement to tell them how to do it.You should understand two things. Firstly STANAGs are accepted on voluntary basis not forced to every country and secondly there is not such thing like "universal magwell" for 7.62mm x 51 NATO magazines or STANAG covering them.

By the way, as far as I know the Picatinny rail (US MIL-STD-1913) it is still not a NATO STANAG for a scope mounting system, the NATO STANAG is completly different.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Heckler_Koch/HK_ScopeMountSTANAGTop%20.jpg
http://www.hkpro.com/image/g41rt.jpg
The G41 a fully STANAG-specific rifle
In fact, now HK has produced STANAG 5.56x45mm magazines, that won't even work with their G36 line.It's not quite true. The G36 assault rifle has got exchangeable magazine well, so this is no problem with feeding this weapon using STANAG 4179 20/30 M16 magazines using appropriate magwell.

http://www.area51-guns.com/photos/SHOT05/SHOT05%20022.jpg
http://www.area51-guns.com/photos/SHOT05/SHOT05%20020.jpg

Freibier
06-17-2006, 01:06 PM
soooooo, let me get this straight...the "We Retreat!" Frenchies love our American rifle platform? Asides from the obvious Oberland Arms, who else over there asides from HK makes 'em?
Most euro AR15 I see come from Sabre Defence and Oberland Arms.
Reason #1 why they're so popular is their precision. Direct blowback with few moving parts is pretty ideal for precision.
Reliability isn't so important for sport shooters ;)

corran.pl
06-17-2006, 04:53 PM
Unless there's a problem with the G3 magazine's upper specifics it wouldn't be that hard to design a polymer one within the parameters.

HK goal is not to design just a polymer mag for G3 but to design new, reliable military rifle platform and that includes magazines. The reason why HK 417 mags aren't compatible with G3s is probably hold-open mechanism.

One favor to Remov, I have seen a lot of pictures posted by you and most them is flashed, buy your self some proper camera and try to make pictures without flash.

Oh... and by the way, I heard some rumors that HK 416/417 is one of the options for a new rifle for 1st Commando Regiment.

Regards.

....
06-17-2006, 08:17 PM
Corran, could you give more info on the other rifle options dealing with a new rifle for 1PSK? while I may not have any first hand knowledge of what 1PSK needs, I would think new NVGs, 50 cal rifles, MOLLE/pals covered chest rigs/plate carriers, minimi/SAWs and GPMGs, WIST 94 pistol replacements would more needed than rifles.

corran.pl
06-18-2006, 04:26 AM
Corran, could you give more info on the other rifle options dealing with a new rifle for 1PSK? while I may not have any first hand knowledge of what 1PSK needs,

I heard about two other proposals are from Colt Canada (Diemaco) and Bushmaster but these are only rumors for me (I'm not a gun's expert nor soldier).


I would think new NVGs, 50 cal rifles, MOLLE/pals covered chest rigs/plate carriers, minimi/SAWs and GPMGs, WIST 94 pistol replacements would more needed than rifles.

But they have most of things you have mentioned above and creation of separate SF command surly will give more founds to PSK.

....
06-18-2006, 04:40 PM
Thanks for the info Corran!

Durandal
06-19-2006, 08:48 AM
soooooo, let me get this straight...the "We Retreat!" Frenchies love our American rifle platform? Asides from the obvious Oberland Arms, who else over there asides from HK makes 'em?

Oh, I don't know, I heard FN got a rather large contract producing them.

I could be wrong though. rofl

NG_LtInfSqdLdr
06-19-2006, 09:21 AM
Corran, Is the 1st Commando Regiment you speak of a Polish unit?

corran.pl
06-19-2006, 10:12 AM
Corran, Is the 1st Commando Regiment you speak of a Polish unit?

Yes, sorry I should point it in my post.

REMOV
06-19-2006, 06:23 PM
could you give more info on the other rifle options dealing with a new rifle for 1PSK?Basically the M4 clones. At present only two of them have the official Polish certificate - KAC and Bushmaster.
GPMGsIs there is something wrong with the PK/PKM?

Jabroni
07-05-2006, 01:21 PM
After there was a particular silence towards the larger rifle, HKPRO has a newly put together page concerning the HK417, with new detail pics of the evolved prototype - possibly from Eurosatory.

http://hkpro.com/hk417.htm

Its nice to see that HK apparently opts for up-to-date mags, and that they apparently erased the unloved bolts for connecting magazines of previous G36-design. They should do the same for the HK416 (with optional magwell adapter for STANAG mags).

Decent gun but its too M-16ish, I do still like it and the new G36 but i would like it more if they both used the Roller Locking Delayed Blowback (RLDB) Operation

maw
07-05-2006, 04:51 PM
fyi, you can get polymer mags for the g3. thermold makes them and they work great but they can melt on full auto.

Jabroni
07-06-2006, 08:32 PM
Sounds more like the voice of reason. Why the hell should it be compatible to a 50 year old mag design? In military/LE terms there is not a single reason in this world why this should be possible, much less since the G3 has been phased ou of most western militaries that ever used it. Personally, I am convinced of the advantages polymer mags have above metal mags, and basically one can always "downgrade" from the larger magwell, so why shouldnt the new magwell be the standard?

And I am not aware of a STANAG concerning 7.62x51mm mags, much less one that focuses around the G3 mags.

If there is a STANAG 7.62 Magazine, It should be the AR10 'Waffle'

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Armalite_AR10/AR10_MagWaffleB.jpg

REMOV
07-07-2006, 06:34 PM
If there is a STANAG 7.62 Magazine, It should be the AR10 'Waffle'Why? The two most popular battle rifles in the world were Belgian FN FAL and German H&K G3, not American AR-10.

solidarnosc
07-07-2006, 08:11 PM
Why? The two most popular battle rifles in the world were Belgian FN FAL and German H&K G3, not American AR-10.

Yep, and to say that West-Germany wanted to buy the FAL. :)

Jabroni
07-07-2006, 08:46 PM
Why? The two most popular battle rifles in the world were Belgian FN FAL and German H&K G3, not American AR-10.

I know that but its just becoz the 5.56 STANAG Magazine is based on an M16 Magazine so the idea came out of that, The H&K 33 had a magazine of its own, Then it was redesigned to take STANAG magazines and became the G41 Rifle.

ClydeFrog
07-08-2006, 04:12 AM
So? Is your logic: the mag of a descendent of the AR10 became STANAG and therefor the AR10 mag should be STANAG too? Sorry, but that logic is flawed.

REMOV
07-08-2006, 05:35 AM
I know that but its just becoz the 5.56 STANAG Magazine is based on an M16 Magazine so the idea came out of thatSTANAGs are not obligatory agreements. You can sign it or not. And the irony of the fate is, that HK33/HK53 was produced far longer than the STANAG-compatible G41.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6043/dsc016796uo.jpg

The new American battle rifle (i.e. selective fire rifle fed by rifle ammunition like 7.62mm x 51 NATO) purchased for the US SOCOM is 7.62mm Mk 17 Mod 0 (FN SCAR-H) which magazines are based on FN FAL ones. But, there is a little problem - US ARMY just bought new 7.62mm M110 SASS sniper rifle. And the M110 SASS (also Mk 11 Mod 0/SR-25) magazines are not interchangeable with SCAR-H.

Nite
07-09-2006, 09:55 AM
Yep, and to say that West-Germany wanted to buy the FAL. :)
In fact german Army bought the FAL. They dropped it in favor of the G3 because belgium didn't allow them to build the FAL in license.

solidarnosc
07-09-2006, 10:23 AM
In fact german Army bought the FAL. They dropped it in favor of the G3 because belgium didn't allow them to build the FAL in license.

Big mistake. ;)

Yankee_Delta
11-21-2007, 04:28 PM
This rifle/carbine sounds great, and alot like the Mk.17 Mod 0 (aka SCAR-H): HK reliability, M4 size (carbine), versatility, stopping power, and accuracy

Hydro
11-21-2007, 05:06 PM
Bit of a resurrection, but the 417 is a pretty good system. The polymer magazines are very light indeed, and seem pretty robust. Time will tell how it performs out on the two way range.

-[Crosshair]-
11-21-2007, 05:11 PM
Meh about .308 ARs.

MaverickCowboy
11-21-2007, 05:17 PM
all of you are confusing me, so are they making the 417 with the ploymer mag or metal?

SMGLee
11-21-2007, 05:41 PM
Bit of a resurrection, but the 417 is a pretty good system. The polymer magazines are very light indeed, and seem pretty robust. Time will tell how it performs out on the two way range.

the polymer/plastic magazine used in the 417 seem very si,miliar to the composition of the G36 magazines. The G36 magazines had some problem with brittle feed lips. I have two of my G36 mags already developing cracks and i have not even abuse those mags at all.

SMGLee
11-21-2007, 05:44 PM
STANAGs are not obligatory agreements. You can sign it or not. And the irony of the fate is, that HK33/HK53 was produced far longer than the STANAG-compatible G41.



The new American battle rifle (i.e. selective fire rifle fed by rifle ammunition like 7.62mm x 51 NATO) purchased for the US SOCOM is 7.62mm Mk 17 Mod 0 (FN SCAR-H) which magazines are based on FN FAL ones. But, there is a little problem - US ARMY just bought new 7.62mm M110 SASS sniper rifle. And the M110 SASS (also Mk 11 Mod 0/SR-25) magazines are not interchangeable with SCAR-H.

There are talks that the M110 migth be phased out in favor of the SCAR. rumors, but voices has been raised. SCAR will coming 70% less then the KAC M110.

Hydro
11-21-2007, 05:51 PM
the polymer/plastic magazine used in the 417 seem very si,miliar to the composition of the G36 magazines. The G36 magazines had some problem with brittle feed lips. I have two of my G36 mags already developing cracks and i have not even abuse those mags at all.


That's very interesting, I wonder if H&K have altered the composition at all. I do like how they've sacked the idea of the studs to connect two magazines together, a la G36, they're just annoying.



Maverick: The 417 will use polymer magazines, the steel G3 mags were only on intial prototype versions.

MaverickCowboy
11-21-2007, 05:54 PM
Thank god. Thanks!