China's mobile execution vans...

[Slater]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm


We could use a few of these in the US.

[Jani.R]

Cheaper than sending them all into Bejing.

[ansonau]

I think that is "good looking" and same as the travelling vans in china , the crimal have to very comfortable in the "executing van"

[Plastic_Yank]

Spooky-looking chaps there.

[ed316]

I envy China sometimes.

[c62]

Makers of the death vans say the vehicles and injections are a civilized alternative to the firing squad, ending the life of the condemned more quickly, clinically and safely. As opposed to an "unsafe" execution?roflroflrofl

[signatory]

Hah.... that's not exactly news USA Today...


Mobile execution vans used in China, Converted buses used as mobile chambers to execute prisoners by lethal injection.
web.amnesty.org/wire/May2003/China

[JustYourAverageJoe]

Maybe the US should go back to beheadings and firing squads.

[toki]

Maybe the US should go back to beheadings and firing squads.
Did the US ever behead? Nah serious question, i don't think so?! I heard they still have the option of firing squad in Utah.
Some trivia: The last in europe to behead were france and germany. France till the late seventies abandoned '81(?), germany till '49 in the west, mid sixties in the east. All by guillotine. The nazis Guillotined more people then in the french revolution. Read a book about the last executioner, scary sometimes a hundred per day.

[Sayeret]

I heard the richer criminals could pay for a lethal injection while anyone else would just be shot in the back of the head.

[toki]

I heard the richer criminals could pay for a lethal injection while anyone else would just be shot in the back of the head.
Don't know what is worse, i guess the humiliation of being transported to a public execution place like cattle, mass execution style is the bad part. It's more likely you'll suffer of a botched injection then of a sudden bang.

[Dexx]

US and China. The civilized people united. You are in best company with other civilized countries I don't want to name. :roll:

[Laworkerbee]

Dexx please don't compare us.

There will never be some Einsatzgruppen in the USA, ever!

[annihilation]

Can they still "harvest" the organs after lethal injection has been used? How are they going to make money selling organs if they go bad....

[ed316]

US and China. The civilized people united. You are in best company with other civilized countries I don't want to name. :roll:

Abolishing death penalty doesn't make you any better. It gives you a false sense of moral superiority. Nothing more. Most of Latin America doesn't have death penalty. Look how great they are.

[Jani.R]

Abolishing death penalty doesn't make you any better. It gives you a false sense of moral superiority. Nothing more. Most of Latin America doesn't have death penalty. Look how great they are.

Was the USA messed by some other goverment sponsored anti-communist dictators, sponsored coups?

If not, please sit down.

[Kilgor]

Was the USA messed by some other goverment sponsored anti-communist dictators, sponsored coups?

If not, please sit down.

Like finland and hitler ?

[Jani.R]

Like finland and hitler ?

And what does that have to do with anything? Umba? Poba?

[Kilgor]

And what does that have to do with anything? Umba? Poba?

My point being, do you really think the US wanted to support those guys ? Much like your past history. Enemy of my enemy is my friend

And your the one who brought up this silly topic anyway ?

[Jani.R]

My point being, do you really think the US wanted to support those guys ? Much like your past history. Enemy of my enemy is my friend

And your the one who brought up this silly topic anyway ?

I was just asking ed106 to not so see things so black and white, and us sponsored dictators have big part of messing up south-american lands.

[Durandal]

We could use a few of these in the US.

Not too sure what you mean here. Care to clarify?

[ed316]

I was just asking ed106 to not so see things so black and white, and us sponsored dictators have big part of messing up south-american lands.

Jani, I don't see things black and white. It would be to simple. I understand the whole US supporting dictators. The whole thing about Latin America is that they are mostly Roman Catholic which plays alot in their culture down there.The Vatican is oppose to capital punishment. Most Latinos I know and been around are pretty devout.Noting wrong. Comparing the US to China IS simplistic. China is not a democracy or is dissent tolerated. US and the other hand is. The whole dictator thing is irrelevant because What does that have to do with death penalties? If life is so precious in Europe why is abortion legal?

[Kilgor]

I was just asking ed106 to not so see things so black and white, and us sponsored dictators have big part of messing up south-american lands.

What really messed up "south american" lands was something called spanish colonialism exported from europe.

And would you have prefered soviet backed dictators like castro ?

[Moose]

What really messed up "south American" lands was something called cocaine and all the other drugs + the political struggles that were conducted over the people’s heads with no sympathy or care over their future. Their messed up because of economical problems related to the all to black and white enforcement of either capitalism or other form of economy.

Back on subject. The death penalty does not, I repeat NOT, lover the crime rate by any means. The death penalty only serves the purpose of falsely declaring a solution to the problem.
I am not against the death penalty because of ethical reasons.

@ ed316
Do not bring abortion in to the discussion……..

@ Kilgor
The world isn’t black and white you should study a little of history before you start making stupid comments. I mean this comment “And would you have preferred soviet backed dictators like Castro?” was simply gold.

[annihilation]

I was just asking ed106 to not so see things so black and white, and us sponsored dictators have big part of messing up south-american lands.

Well sponsoring democracy doesn't always work either as we can see.

[wubanga101]

does that thing get good mpg?

[signatory]

sorry, but I'm gonna bite!


If life is so precious in Europe why is abortion legal?

Abortion law is overall far more stricter in Europe than overall in the USA, even in the so called liberal Scandinavian countries. The major countries like France have very strict. Then look at Italy, Poland, Ireland, Malta, Portugal where it's either outright illegal or heavily restricted.

But I'm not sure what this has to do with chinese execution vans... if they wanna kill their own people, I don't care.

[Loco]

Abolishing death penalty doesn't make you any better. It gives you a false sense of moral superiority. Nothing more. Most of Latin America doesn't have death penalty. Look how great they are.
Some of those latin american countries are better than some states of the Usa. It´s good to see that countries like China and USA share common points of view. The autocar is beauty by the way, it remembers me that beauty trucks that nazis began to use as mobile gas chambers, you know that soon they realized that it was someway expensive and built big static gas chambers, in the middle of beauty forests, that proved to be cheaper ways of executing dangerous people. Maybe it´ll be the new trend in China and, who knows? in Usa. Pragmatism over all.

[chuckster]

How's this for a slogan: Executions in 30 minutes or it's free!

[annihilation]

Some of those latin american countries are better than some states of the Usa. It´s good to see that countries like China and USA share common points of view. The autocar is beauty by the way, it remembers me that beauty trucks that nazis began to use as mobile gas chambers, you know that soon they realized that it was someway expensive and built big static gas chambers, in the middle of beauty forests, that proved to be cheaper ways of executing dangerous people. Maybe it´ll be the new trend in China and, who knows? in Usa. Pragmatism over all.

Whatever, in the end the US will never abolish the death penality nor should it. You can think what ever you like but its not going to go.

[Apathy]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm


We could use a few of these in the US.

Imagine the fear that people would be in when they see a bus. :|

[Con-man]

Imagine what happens when people confuse this for a vaccination van?

[Roaming East]

built using the same technology as Saddams mobile WMD vans?

[haze99]

As we all know, captial punishment has been around for quite sometime. It is necessary, in order to keep law and justice.
From my viewpoint, China has taken it to the extreme. While the USA and Europe have gone nearly 180 degrees opposite. (and you wonder why so many people are in prison?) Who knows what you can be excuted for in the PRC? Member of Falun Gong? Walking with a Bible? While in the USA/Europe, you can commit the most unspeakable acts imagined and still not be properly dealt with by a hang-man! (John Wayne Gasey or BKT Killer for example!)
Although, not every crime deserves excution, it cannot be discarded. For then we will have ceased to be just or "fair" society.
Unfortunalty, abortion has become a rule, rather than an exception. You cannot be concerned for a child rapist,murderer but, discard babies in the womb, before they are even born! If you cannot fatom this concept, a person who has commited murder has shown their reckless abandon! And must be dealt with severly! Where as an unborn baby has made no choices period. It has yet to be born and be part of the society. (if you want to say these are fetuses, then I guess China is just conducting Very late-term abortion! At say the, 30 tri-mester?)

[Belrick]

The death penalty does not, I repeat NOT, lover the crime rate by any means. .

Can you please justify your BS comment with some logic.

Please prove to us here how a dead man can re-offend then i'll stop thinking your full of what makes the grass grow green.
While you are at it do some research and discover how many first time crims actually re-offend.


ps: I'm anti-death penalty on moral basis. But i'm even more oppossed to allowing criminals back into the public.

[Bia]

built using the same technology as Saddams mobile WMD vans?or with that logic...

a Stealth bomber too!


LOL
duh

[Yarrick2]

does that thing get good mpd?there i corrected your questionp-)

[makavelli]

i wonder how the driver feels...

[ed316]

i wonder how the driver feels...

dead tired.

[haze99]

What is the moral basis for being against the death penalty? What or where is the justification for this?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Death Penelty is nothing more then a means to remove the less fortunate of society.

It can also be used to remove those people from society that could become a potential rival/threat to the powers that be.

For those that commit acts which are against the morals of society it is nothing more then a revenge killing.

There is no justification for the death penelty in today's society for anything.

[Durandal]

What is the moral basis for being against the death penalty? What or where is the justification for this?

Being against?

Thou shalt not kill.

Some people hold LIFE above all else?

Do no harm?

Its not that hard.

[Loco]

Whatever, in the end the US will never abolish the death penality nor should it. You can think what ever you like but its not going to go.
I don´t play to be an adivine and I think what I want, of course. When I listen about some particularly hateful criminal being executed in your country I just don´t feel sad. What I dislike it´s that some former football star and succesful actor is free after stabbing his wife, while a poor bastard it´s fried even if there´s some doubt he can be innocent. The same that I dislike the crudity and obscenity of many americans that support death penalty, it happens only in your country.

[ed316]

I don´t play to be an adivine and I think what I want, of course. When I listen about some particularly hateful criminal being executed in your country I just don´t feel sad. What I dislike it´s that some former football star and succesful actor is free after stabbing his wife, while a poor bastard it´s fried even if there´s some doubt he can be innocent. The same that I dislike the crudity and obscenity of many americans that support death penalty, it happens only in your country.

It's OUR legal system. What about feeling sorry for victims? Doesn't anyone think of them? Dislike me all you want. It's our system.

Why do you think they sit on Death row for decades? They will go through appeals after appeals till it is exhausted.

[Laworkerbee]

Death Penelty is nothing more then a means to remove the less fortunate of society.

Interesting take, repeat *** offenders, men who kill children after raping them are now considered the less fortunate in society?

[Loco]

Ed316, I don´t like death penalty but I know that if I had suffered a terrible offense, or some of my family, I´d use all the means in my hand just in the moment to give a definitive punishment to the criminal, so it´s not the question of my feelings because they are contradictories. I prefer thinking coldly for the good of all society, and I think that death penalty it doesn´t help any society. Because it´s my opinion I respect legal systems, included the american of course, and I think since in many states of USA they have death penalty, it would be better some legal reform to evite a man/woman bein executed after 15 or 18 years in the jail ¡that´s the half of a life! What I don´t respect it´s the way many people demonstrate cheering and hurrying when a man is being executed, they just are a sh#t, it´s a question of decency not to do it, of nobleness and class, if people don´t understand it I can´t explain to them. Last thing, it´s amolst a universal certainty that the hardest penal punishments are usually in the most corrupts countries. This thread it´s about death penalty in China, which it´s not today an example of cleaness. Well, I´d like to know, because I don´t know, if there´s some kind of statistics comparing the degree honesty of different administrations of american states, the ranking of human development of american states and then comparing it with the states that have death penalty.

[Durandal]

I like the idea of letting a thousand guilty go free so we can avoid the one innocent from dying. Its strikes at the very heart of the moral question. We execute those that deserve it and we KNOW for a FACT, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they did the horrible deed they are to be executed for.

We have executed INNOCENT people in the last 100 years and that weighs heavily upon me, as a citizen AND a supporter of the death penalty.

I think we should suspend executions till we adopt something that is 100 infallible.

Anything less is unconscionable as a human being and as an American.

To argue otherwise makes you no less blood thirsty and illogical than those nuts in the Middle East.

That being said, some of you celebrate this Chinese thing, this death van, a vehicle in which POLITICAL prisoners have been executed simply because they disagree with the government and criminals who have not taken a life, raped a human being, or abused a child and simply deserve prison time...

And you have the gall to think this is a good thing?

[Belrick]

What is the moral basis for being against the death penalty? What or where is the justification for this?


Because killing defenseless people regardless of the justification lowers everyone that is touched by the death.
I couldnt give a fig about the murderer who dies by injection but i certainly care for those that have to administer the lethal injection/judge etc etc.

[Belrick]

Interesting take, repeat *** offenders, men who kill children after raping them are now considered the less fortunate in society?


I commend you on the restraint you showed in answering such a ignorant question.

[Moose]

Can you please justify your BS comment with some logic.

Please prove to us here how a dead man can re-offend then i'll stop thinking your full of what makes the grass grow green.
While you are at it do some research and discover how many first time crims actually re-offend.


ps: I'm anti-death penalty on moral basis. But i'm even more oppossed to allowing criminals back into the public.

Hello Belrick I noticed that you were irritated by my comment.

I understand that this subject can awake a lot of feelings but I still don’t like that you called my comment BS, try to restrain yourself in the future, personal attacks only lower the standards.

A dead man can’t re offend but neither can a man sitting in an isolation cell. I am perfectly aware of the fact that different methods of rehabilitation result in different amounts of rehabilitated people. Some methods only help 9 percent of the first time offenders to stay of the course of crime some methods might help 35 percent.

The point is that the death penalty doesn’t DETER any criminal willing to commit a crime that could land him a death penalty. If you don’t believe this then I suggest you do some research.

The whole thing comes down to 2 different ways of thinking. One side thinks that the law system and its sentences should work as PUNISHMENT and nothing else. Put the burglar In prison then let him out. The other side thinks that the law system should end the criminal cycle of the burglar.

All I am saying is that the people who commit crimes that gives them the death penalty (only in the west, in China you probably get that sentence for a lot of offences) should instead get life in prison.

We all understand that serious criminal minds need to be taken care off. Some think that they should die others think that they should spend their eternity in a little cell with no contact with the outer world.

[ed316]

Ed316, I don´t like death penalty but I know that if I had suffered a terrible offense, or some of my family, I´d use all the means in my hand just in the moment to give a definitive punishment to the criminal, so it´s not the question of my feelings because they are contradictories. I prefer thinking coldly for the good of all society, and I think that death penalty it doesn´t help any society. Because it´s my opinion I respect legal systems, included the american of course, and I think since in many states of USA they have death penalty, it would be better some legal reform to evite a man/woman bein executed after 15 or 18 years in the jail ¡that´s the half of a life! What I don´t respect it´s the way many people demonstrate cheering and hurrying when a man is being executed, they just are a sh#t, it´s a question of decency not to do it, of nobleness and class, if people don´t understand it I can´t explain to them. Last thing, it´s amolst a universal certainty that the hardest penal punishments are usually in the most corrupts countries. This thread it´s about death penalty in China, which it´s not today an example of cleaness. Well, I´d like to know, because I don´t know, if there´s some kind of statistics comparing the degree honesty of different administrations of american states, the ranking of human development of american states and then comparing it with the states that have death penalty.

So you are saying a country that abolishes the death penalty has better people and "developement". So you are basically saying you are more enlighten then Americans who support the death peanalty? Plz enlighten me.

[Belrick]

Hello Belrick I noticed that you were irritated by my comment.

I understand that this subject can awake a lot of feelings but I still don’t like that you called my comment BS, try to restrain yourself in the future, personal attacks only lower the standards.

A dead man can’t re offend but neither can a man sitting in an isolation cell. I am perfectly aware of the fact that different methods of rehabilitation result in different amounts of rehabilitated people. Some methods only help 9 percent of the first time offenders to stay of the course of crime some methods might help 35 percent.

The point is that the death penalty doesn’t DETER any criminal willing to commit a crime that could land him a death penalty. If you don’t believe this then I suggest you do some research.

The whole thing comes down to 2 different ways of thinking. One side thinks that the law system and its sentences should work as PUNISHMENT and nothing else. Put the burglar In prison then let him out. The other side thinks that the law system should end the criminal cycle of the burglar.

All I am saying is that the people who commit crimes that gives them the death penalty (only in the west, in China you probably get that sentence for a lot of offences) should instead get life in prison.

We all understand that serious criminal minds need to be taken care off. Some think that they should die others think that they should spend their eternity in a little cell with no contact with the outer world.

Ok, point taken. My apologies for my snappish reply.

I would agree to life imprisonment if a means could be found to do so without putting a heavy burden on society. As far as i'm concerned a repeat criminal is a person whos saying that don't want to be a member of society so they should be ousted by the cheapest possible means.

[Laworkerbee]

Whatever happened to back breaking hard labour for life?

Rapists, Murderers, and the like get air conditioning, 3 square meals a day, cable tv, *** and drugs. It costs the equivilent of a college education to house a prisoner each and every year.

Why not make them work so hard they never want to come back to prison ever again, in Los Angeles going to jail for some members of society is a right of passage....that disgusts me most.

And why on Gods Earth are there weight benches and gyms? men come out bigger then when they went into prison, here it is called "Gladiator school"

want to lift? something lift a book!

but as for repeat *** offenders, I cannot fathom releasing them back into society to repeat again, *** criminals should never be released.

[catalyst]

Death penalty....costs more per case than a life sentence!

[haze99]

by some of the previous posts, you gents do not want to hold people accountable for their actions. Nor are you willing to carry out justice for those who need it. (you have no sound basis for your objections, on this issue.) And using a Bible verse out of context does not fly! In addition, the USA and western europe better build more prisons than we care to imagine, as to hold all the murderers you don't think need to be put to death. (and do not attempt to use moral equvilancey here, terrorist are not in the same league as a judge carry-out just punishment!)
As I stated in my main post, we have two extremes here. China and it's willingness to use the death penalty over any infraction. Two Europe, that is not willing to use it at all! So we (western world) should prefer a middle ground in this area. Knowing that it is a tool for justice and that we should not be careless with its application.
In case you were wondering, the New Testament does not abolish the death penalty. And no, you cannot use the Sermon on the Mount for your lack of clarity on this matter!

[catalyst]

So Jesus would be happy to condem a man to death....fool!

[Loco]

So you are saying a country that abolishes the death penalty has better people and "developement". So you are basically saying you are more enlighten then Americans who support the death peanalty? Plz enlighten me.
Actually it was me that asked you for being enlightened about differences of human development between AMERICAN states that support death penalty and those AMERICAN states that don´t support death penalty. Some reading comprehension problems in your side I´m afraid, I´m just don´t have anything more to say about death penalty, regards.

[haze99]

Catalyst, beware of who you call a fool.
No Jesus would not be happy for you or I to condemn a man to death. For we are not a judge in a court room!
Jesus did not abolish the death penalty. (so do not take His teachings out of context.) He knows that mankind is still fallen (unless you repent and receive Him as saviour) and that the death penalty is needed for keeping law and order in a society. The Lord is not happy when a nation perverts justice, due to its false feelings on any matter.
Now how is one to properly apply the Lord's teachings? If I lose my spouse to a young man who kills her for some money in her purse. I am to forgive him this sin! Although, the court has been placed in authority by G_d to carry out his excution for the murder. If the court decides to sentence him to life in prison, then it has abdicated it's authority and has not carried out justice. The Lord does not operate from a brownie point system.

[Hollis]

As usual in the defense of murders, rapist, torturers, the victim is again lost. And Future Victims will never be heard over the cries to protect the criminal.

Even captiol punishment is of much great mercy that criminal afforded their victims. Even the trial of Criminal gave then a chance to argue their case some thing then never gave the victim. The act the criminal did is what cause their demise by capitol punishment not the laws, not the courts, not the victims, They are to be blamed for crimes they committed and the punishment that THEY had earned.

[catalyst]

haze99,

The issue with me and the church in general is this. I do not believe that God put those men into those positions as judges, 100% of the time. I believe that man, no matter who, is flawed and thus using men to condem another to death is in iteslf flawed.

Remember what he said about people with a log in their eye?

[Durandal]

by some of the previous posts, you gents do not want to hold people accountable for their actions. Nor are you willing to carry out justice for those who need it. (you have no sound basis for your objections, on this issue.)

Umm. I certainly did. Try to tackle it and show me where I am not sound in my argument?

[CPLHUNTER]

Wow, how nice, front door service for your own execution. Very thoughtful

[haze99]

catalyst, don't stop on Matthew Chapter 7, verse 1. Read the following verse's 2 through 6.
As for government, judges and courtrooms, Jesus told Pontius Pilate in John Chapter 19 v.11 that he (Pontius Pilate had no authority over Him (Jesus) unless it was given him by G_d. Which would lead us to, Romans Chapter 13, this clearly states that G_d has allowed human government to exist to keep law and order. (Which would include excution of murderer's.)

G_d as well as the Lord Jesus are well aware of evil people deed's. As well as peoples good deeds. (although, good deeds do not merit eternal life!) If there is a corrupt judge, then the people (government) are to have him removed.