Hizbullah joins in

[citizen-k]

A few minutes ago Hizbullah started bombing targets along the northern border of Israel.

These pictures were taken a short while ago (not by me, since I'm not home right now...)

http://rotter.net/User_files/forum/405f0b55567acdf2.jpg
http://rotter.net/User_files/forum/405f0b36555302e8.jpg


I hope to find better pictures soon.

Location: Har Dov (Mount Dov)

[MEGR]

Bomb them back.

[Russian Texan]

What is it exactly they are trying to hit and do you have pictures/info about rockets they are launching? Thank you.

[citizen-k]

They are using Katyusha rockets,mortars and anti tanks missiles...

They are trying to hit the IDF posts located in this area.

This area was Syrian and after Israel left SL, the Hizbullah decided it wants Israel to leave this area as well (since Syria gave it to Lebanon after Israel took it from Syria) :|

Well, Israels decision was to give it back, if ever, to Syria and not to Lebanon... so thats their excuse for those attacks and others, such as the one which they kidnaped the 3 soldiers.

[George W. Bush]

Someone should tell them to stop doing that, someone might get hurt.

[Russian Texan]

What about using artillery radars to pin point where the fire is coming from and hit them back right away while they are still in firing position?

[citizen-k]

What about using artillery radars to pin point where the fire is coming from and hit them back right away while they are still in firing position?

But then Europeans will say its wrong to attack occupied Lebanon... rofl

I won't start talking about the technology used to detect where the artillery is coming from - but its been used ;)

[Russian Texan]

But then Europeans will say its wrong to attack occupied Lebanon...

Yeah but Europeans do not have to deal with weekly terrorist attacks and they do not live surrounded by the hostile states who dream about exterminating them.

Are palestinians allowed to work in Israel?

[citizen-k]

But then Europeans will say its wrong to attack occupied Lebanon...

Yeah but Europeans do not have to deal with weekly terrorist attacks and they do not live surrounded by the hostile states who dream about exterminating them.

Are palestinians allowed to work in Israel?

Of course - if it was not for Israel they will all starve to death. (The PA took the money givven by Europeans and stored it in swiss banks...)

Its a funny thing - we MUST allow them to enter Israel (but they want their own state, arn't they?) so they will have jobs, although they are using this to execute terror attacks...

[Russian Texan]

So why not to deny palestinians jobs in Israel as a punitive action for attacks? Terrorists need money to support them, less money = less weapons = less attacks.

[One?]

They are using Katyusha rockets,mortars and anti tanks missiles...

They are trying to hit the IDF posts located in this area.

This area was Syrian and after Israel left SL, the Hizbullah decided it wants Israel to leave this area as well (since Syria gave it to Lebanon after Israel took it from Syria) :|

Well, Israels decision was to give it back, if ever, to Syria and not to Lebanon... so thats their excuse for those attacks and others, such as the one which they kidnaped the 3 soldiers.

mmm the land is lebanese, always been and always will be. And its been discussed to death before.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

So why not to deny palestinians jobs in Israel as a punitive action for attacks? Terrorists need money to support them, less money = less weapons = less attacks.

Denying someone a job just because of there race is discrimination, I'm pretty sure you wouldnt like it if someone wouldnt hire you to a job just because you have "Russian" in you. Stopping the guys who do work a 9-5 and making there lives more difficult will only create more terrorists, by taking there jobs away and forcing them to live in poverty only provides the perfect recruitment grounds.

[Argyll]

But then Europeans will say its wrong to attack occupied Lebanon...

Yeah but Europeans do not have to deal with weekly terrorist attacks and they do not live surrounded by the hostile states who dream about exterminating them.

Are palestinians allowed to work in Israel?


Neither does the USA ;) or Russia for that matter!

[RomanS]

Hit them back

ignore the Europe

[Argyll]

Hit them back

ignore the Europe

Aye it's funny as hell how you constantly berate Europe there permski,but if it were not for the G8 then you'd have been in an economical disaster,you'll take their money ok ,but disrespect them at the same time? ;)

[RomanS]

I dont take their money

my friends in Russia don't see their money

a few people in Duma pocket your money, so talk to them.

[Marmot1]

I dont take their money

my friends in Russia don't see their money

a few people in Duma pocket your money, so talk to them.

Yeahh and you take US money... BTW most of russian population live in europe... But if you insist you are Asian country... OK rofl

[Groove]

I always thought Russia counts themself to Europe ! At least they like European Money and Goods ;)

[Kitsune]

Actually this is a bit more serious.

First, Hizbollah is perhaps the most skillfull enemy Israel faces today. They are unusually well trained and well organized which a generous amount of zeal thrown in. I have this information from a German/Israeli (he grew up in Germany but served in the IDF) and he said Zahal does take Hizbollah very serious, and regard them as much worse enemies then the Hamas type palestinian if it comes to actual guerilla style fighting.

But that is not the worst point. The real big problem with Hibollah is, that they are Shiit...and that there is a solid connection between them, Iran and the Shiits of Iraq. And as it is now, the situation in Iraq gets more critical every day, also the Shiits there have shown a remarkable restraint so far. If this changes, if the Shiit preachers in Iraq encourage violence the situation there will get much worse. (Especially the now British controlled south. What will happen when the Britisih start loosing 10 men a day?)
And this is the reason why Israel has to be very careful with Hizbollah in South Lebanon. Any action there could ignite a fuse that makes Iraq blow up in the US/British face.

That is also the reason why the US governementt was not especially happy with the assassination of the Hamas leader. Of course they can hardly speak against it, it is a policy akin to theirs, after all. But it is certainly not helpful as far as the current problems in Iraq are concerned. If this now starts action with Hizbollah there could be a domino effect.

Just a thought...

[Mr. Nielsen]

That is also the reason why the US governementt was not especially happy with the assassination of the Hamas leader. Of course they can hardly speak against it, it is a policy akin to theirs, after all. But it is certainly not helpful as far as the current problems in Iraq are concerned. If this now starts action with Hizbollah there could be a domino effect.

Just a thought...

Very interesting point.

[von_Moo142]

Russian Texan


Yeah but Europeans do not have to deal with weekly terrorist attacks

You're right, we don't at the moment.


But I'm sure many people here remember what it was like. I do, from a civillian POV at least.

Not the same scale, perhaps, but it still illustrates the fact that your statement was misleading.

Please, any of you who doubt that "Europeans" have any insight into terrorist atrocities, take a few moments to look at these links.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/tables/Year.html

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/index.html


And we weren't the only ones.

The Italians, Spanish, French and Germans (and I'm sure I've missed a few here) have all suffered from terror attacks in the last few decades. This includes the events in Madrid recently.

The Russians, including those who are living in Europe have also suffered from fairly severe terror attacks recently.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The real big problem with Hibollah is, that they are Shiit...and that there is a solid connection between them, Iran and the Shiits of Iraq. And as it is now, the situation in Iraq gets more critical every day, also the Shiits there have shown a remarkable restraint so far. If this changes, if the Shiit preachers in Iraq encourage violence the situation there will get much worse.
I never thought of the situation in this way. Interesting.

[Tane Angle]

Very nice post Kitsune. They are a very tough group. I don't agree with their tactics, but I would be stupid to not admit their intelligence, dedication, and danger. They are a veteran, smart force that knows how to manipulate the media and rules of engagement to their advantage. They're quite literally a powder keg-it is wise to respect the danger they present. I can't figure them out though. Everytime the EU starts legitimizing them as the de facto government of Lebanon, they do something like this.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[waize]

where do they get their rocket weapons from? And can't you stop that?

[hey]

they get their wepons from Iran through Suria.
if Israel want to stop it, they need to attack Surien and iranian militery cargo planes.. thats would be something like starting a war.. not a wise thing to do.


mmm the land is lebanese, always been and always will be. And its been discussed to death before.




By the UN Israel gave back all territory occupied from lebanon.

[citizen-k]

they get their wepons from Iran through Suria.
if Israel want to stop it, they need to attack Surien and iranian militery cargo planes.. thats would be something like starting a war.. not a wise thing to do.


mmm the land is lebanese, always been and always will be. And its been discussed to death before.




By the UN Israel gave back all territory occupied from lebanon.

That is right.

This land was taken from Syria and will be returned to Syria when the time comes. (probably after the US will teach the Syrian leader some manners)

As for Hizbullah - they are considered as better then the Palestinians in battle.

Actually, Palestinians in Lebanon were used by Hizbullah for "poor" operation which usually failed due to their lack of knowledge/experience.

[One?]

they get their wepons from Iran through Suria.
if Israel want to stop it, they need to attack Surien and iranian militery cargo planes.. thats would be something like starting a war.. not a wise thing to do.


mmm the land is lebanese, always been and always will be. And its been discussed to death before.




By the UN Israel gave back all territory occupied from lebanon.

That is right.

This land was taken from Syria and will be returned to Syria when the time comes. (probably after the US will teach the Syrian leader some manners)

As for Hizbullah - they are considered as better then the Palestinians in battle.

Actually, Palestinians in Lebanon were used by Hizbullah for "poor" operation which usually failed due to their lack of knowledge/experience.

what about the people who have documents sighned by the lebanese government dating to the 50's. They weren't signed by syria. Also there was an american company that wanted to install pipelines. According to their international map the area was controled by lebanon not syria. The UN was waiting for a document from syria to say that the land is not theirs. But that will never happen for a simple reason. If they say its lebanese, then Israel might withdraw leaving hezbollah with no excuse to fight anymore.


As for the palestinians they started gurilla warfare in the middle east and if it wasnt for them there would be no hezbollah. The problem with palestinians is that they dont get adequate training. Most of the "special" units in hezbollah are trained in Iran, and they have technologies which palestinians only dream of.

PS: hezbollah did not use palestinians. All those who carried out attacks where lebanese since day 1 (with some exceptions).

[SeanAshi]

If it keeps up and gets worse, hit Assad where it hurts.

[hey]

what about the people who have documents sighned by the lebanese government dating to the 50's. They weren't signed by syria. Also there was an american company that wanted to install pipelines. According to their international map the area was controled by lebanon not syria. The UN was waiting for a document from syria to say that the land is not theirs. But that will never happen for a simple reason. If they say its lebanese, then Israel might withdraw leaving hezbollah with no excuse to fight anymore.


The hezbollah damand for this land started only when Barak began to talk seursily about the evacuation from south lebanon, before that the hezbollah never mentioed the diccusesed land. and never talked about it as a part of lebanon that Israel must also evacuate if she wants the hezbollah to stop thier attacks.

Its only a lame exuse to continue attcking israel. If there were no "havat shava" there would be something else ,because one of the hezbollah main goals is to destroy Israel, Nassrala said it countless times, and I belive him.

[citizen-k]

they get their wepons from Iran through Suria.
if Israel want to stop it, they need to attack Surien and iranian militery cargo planes.. thats would be something like starting a war.. not a wise thing to do.


mmm the land is lebanese, always been and always will be. And its been discussed to death before.




By the UN Israel gave back all territory occupied from lebanon.

That is right.

This land was taken from Syria and will be returned to Syria when the time comes. (probably after the US will teach the Syrian leader some manners)

As for Hizbullah - they are considered as better then the Palestinians in battle.

Actually, Palestinians in Lebanon were used by Hizbullah for "poor" operation which usually failed due to their lack of knowledge/experience.

what about the people who have documents sighned by the lebanese government dating to the 50's. They weren't signed by syria. Also there was an american company that wanted to install pipelines. According to their international map the area was controled by lebanon not syria. The UN was waiting for a document from syria to say that the land is not theirs. But that will never happen for a simple reason. If they say its lebanese, then Israel might withdraw leaving hezbollah with no excuse to fight anymore.


As for the palestinians they started gurilla warfare in the middle east and if it wasnt for them there would be no hezbollah. The problem with palestinians is that they dont get adequate training. Most of the "special" units in hezbollah are trained in Iran, and they have technologies which palestinians only dream of.

PS: hezbollah did not use palestinians. All those who carried out attacks where lebanese since day 1 (with some exceptions).

You idiot!

I have signed documents by the Turks! saying Merg-Ayun valley belongs to my family! will you give it back? :bash:

You really don't know anything about SL, do you? :cantbeli:

[Yahalom]

Denying someone a job just because of there race is discrimination, I'm pretty sure you wouldnt like it if someone wouldnt hire you to a job just because you have "Russian" in you. Stopping the guys who do work a 9-5 and making there lives more difficult will only create more terrorists, by taking there jobs away and forcing them to live in poverty only provides the perfect recruitment grounds.

Well mate, then the EU is biggest discriminator on the earth denying the jobs and protecting their job markets from East European workers :P

[One?]

You idiot!

I have signed documents by the Turks! saying Merg-Ayun valley belongs to my family! will you give it back?

You really don't know anything about SL, do you?

The last authority over the area was lebanese not turkish, until israel took the farms. So you make no sense. Its not like you will change your mind. You think the whole area belongs to you. And my family is from SL.

[UoUo]

You idiot!

I have signed documents by the Turks! saying Merg-Ayun valley belongs to my family! will you give it back?

You really don't know anything about SL, do you?

The last authority over the area was lebanese not turkish, until israel took the farms. So you make no sense. Its not like you will change your mind. You think the whole area belongs to you. And my family is from SL.

When you muslims finnaly understand that we don't your ****ing land? we Don't need Gaza we don't need SL we don't wan't syria and we don't want To control any arab any more.... Just want to live in peace.

[citizen-k]

You idiot!

I have signed documents by the Turks! saying Merg-Ayun valley belongs to my family! will you give it back?

You really don't know anything about SL, do you?

The last authority over the area was lebanese not turkish, until israel took the farms. So you make no sense. Its not like you will change your mind. You think the whole area belongs to you. And my family is from SL.

Well - history lesson:

I am the grand grandson of the Merg-Ayun region muchtar - you know what muchtar means, don't you? (for those who doesn't know - its the "leader" of the area/town of the Arabs. this position usualy owned by the older/smarter person in the area... and he is chosen by the people)

I guess yout surprised to hear - "a jewish muchtar?" - yes! there was such a thing...

When my grandfather died 2 years ago many people from the area came near to the fence to show their respect. (on the Lebanonian side)

Those lands were belong to us 120 years ago - during the time SL was belong to the Turks. We have the documents to prove it + an aerial photo made by the British which marks who owns which part of the vally, I'll try to copy it and publish it here next week if you want.

So now I'll ask you again,
-will you trade Shaba farms for my land?
-Will you accept exploded school buses in Beirut because of that land?

[OldRecon]

Bomb them back.

Well, that one's been tried before, and haven't helped much in the long run.
Large scale sweeps with ground forces like in 1978, 1982 and Grapes of wrath haven't worked too well either, with the possible exception of 1982, when majority of PLO military elements were moved out of Lebanon.
The IDF move in for a time, the AE (Armed Elements or "Armed Elephants" as we used to call 'em) move out, The IDF pull back and the AE filters back again.
IDF can "win" individual large scale battles and campaigns, though because many of their opponents, like f.ex. Hezbollah, can afford to trade space for time, IDF can't win "the war".
I say "the war" because I regard the Israelis have been continuosly at war with one or more of their Arab neighbours since the formation of the State of Israel in 1948. The opponents faced by Israelis have varied, and for most of the time it's been a low intensity war of nerves, dotted with occasional high intensity flare ups as in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1978 and 1982.
Thus you have the paradox that each time IDF goes big in terms of operations, they seem to be in a more advantageous position vs. their opponents, with regards to tactical handling. Yet each time IDF "goes big" it's also very taxing on their economy.
Thus the more often Israels opponents can entice IDF to go big, while they themselves, either singly or in cooperation, can afford to trade space for time, the more it will serve their purpose in the long run.
An armed force isn't better than the economy that supports it.
One thing about Hezbollah that may seem strange to some, is that they aren't all that happy with Al Qaida. Particularly not the way in which Al Qaida makes it a point to achieve mass civilian casualties.
As for the future if the frequency of Hezbollah attacks against military instalations on the border increases, I think Israel will be in for quite a bit of trouble, unless they can work out some sort of effective low or medium intensity response, short of the high intensity responses common in the past. And am afraid bombing some "mud huts" in Bekaa in retaliation, isn't making all that much impression on the Hezbollah either (in their frame of mind it wouldn't surprise me if it's looked upon as a "cowards response", as most of the planes dropping bombs do so from relative safety).

[citizen-k]

The only solution: Bomb Beirut & Damascus.

Creating tension between Beirut and Hizbullah was the only thing that ever succeeded to reduce Hizbullah's activity against Israel.

[SeanAshi]

If they keep it up, go in there and push them back to where they can't reach Israel with there artillery. Syrian, Lebanese military and Hezbollah capabilities? I know there in bad shape but how bad?

[citizen-k]

If they keep it up, go in there and push them back to where they can't reach Israel with there artillery. Syrian, Lebanese military and Hezbollah capabilities? I know there in bad shape but how bad?

Very bad:

Syrian army: Worthless since it lost the russian support.
No artillery which can reach Israel + poor air force wich won't stand a chance. (20 years ago, when they were in "good" shape they lost 93:0 in dog fights rofl )

Lebanonian army:Worthless because of the old equipment and poor training. (Except for one "unit" which can be destroyed in minutes non of its units are any threat to Israel itself)
No air force at all

Hizbullah: With all my respect - they don't stand a chance facing an army in realy WAR. (unlike posts "war" they had with the IDF so far)

There is realy no need to push them back. (which means pushing civilians back - something nobody wants to do)

The only thing needed is a short, clear message to the Lebanonian & Syrian governments - "You will not have electricity & running water in Beirut/Damescus as long as Hizbullah won't be under control" - that's it.

Trust me, after the milions of $$$ their PM invested in Bridges, Electricity etc... the lebanonian army will fight the Hizbullah, not the IDF ;)

[SeanAshi]

So is Emile Lahoud just a puppet for Damascus?

[citizen-k]

So is Emile Lahoud just a puppet for Damascus?

Noooooooooo... since Israel left Lebanon they are all one big happy free nation rofl

Ask the U.N - thats how they think (and they know best)

[OldRecon]

From what I've heard from people who have visited Lebanon recently, the Syrians are reducing their overt military presence there.
Anyone got more detail on that?

[W(M)D]

When you muslims finnaly understand that we don't your f*** land? we Don't need Gaza we don't need SL we don't wan't syria and we don't want To control any arab any more.... Just want to live in peace.

The arabs dont want to understand and they certainly dont want peace. Arafat tried for a lucky break in 2000 to try and get more out of Oslo, he took a gamble and consequently all the trouble today.
Israel is the stupid party in all of this, for beleiving that people like the arabs and Arafat (in 93) would want peace after pressing home terror for the better part of a century. Even worse the PA police (ex PLO) were allowed by Israel to be supplied with small arms (why would a civil police force require more then pistols?)
Israels worst enemy is its own political left wing who have to be more liberal then anyone else.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The arabs dont want to understand and they certainly dont want peace.
You reckon so.:roll:

Israel is the stupid party in all of this, for beleiving that people like the arabs and Arafat (in 93) would want peace after pressing home terror for the better part of a century.
Going the right way to piss off some of the Israelis on the forum.

(why would a civil police force require more then pistols?)
Same reason as ours. :|

[W(M)D]

Perhaps I should have termed it better:

The arabs have been perpetrating terror for the better part of a century and have never desisted in this form of warfare. If Israel thinks that these people will sit down and suddenly be ready for diplomatic settlements (see how Oslo went - it meant nothing at the end of the day), the country must be naive if not stupid.

[citizen-k]

Perhaps I should have termed it better:

The arabs have been perpetrating terror for the better part of a century and have never desisted in this form of warfare. If Israel thinks that these people will sit down and suddenly be ready for diplomatic settlements (see how Oslo went - it meant nothing at the end of the day), the country must be naive if not stupid.

This is what the fence is all about - after we will have "security" (won't depend on the Palestinian police) we can sign and leave.

(so in case the Palestinians will not do anything to stop the terror attacks we will be protected, in a way)

Thing is that after the fence will be completed they will start bomb Israel with rockets - now thats gona be fun!!! (South lebanon rings a bell?)

[W(M)D]

Lebanon was never fun, it was a military challenge. With the fence up, the idea would be to stop people/vehicles getting through. Why then are 000s allowed through daily to work. My understanding was that the Palestinians wanted full independence, does that not include economic also?

[citizen-k]

Lebanon was never fun, it was a military challenge. With the fence up, the idea would be to stop people/vehicles getting through. Why then are 000s allowed through daily to work. My understanding was that the Palestinians wanted full independence, does that not include economic also?

oiless arabic economy? rofl

You kill me!!!! :hug:

rofl

[One?]

If they keep it up, go in there and push them back to where they can't reach Israel with there artillery. Syrian, Lebanese military and Hezbollah capabilities? I know there in bad shape but how bad?

Very bad:

Syrian army: Worthless since it lost the russian support.
No artillery which can reach Israel + poor air force wich won't stand a chance. (20 years ago, when they were in "good" shape they lost 93:0 in dog fights rofl )

Lebanonian army:Worthless because of the old equipment and poor training. (Except for one "unit" which can be destroyed in minutes non of its units are any threat to Israel itself)
No air force at all

Hizbullah: With all my respect - they don't stand a chance facing an army in realy WAR. (unlike posts "war" they had with the IDF so far)

There is realy no need to push them back. (which means pushing civilians back - something nobody wants to do)

The only thing needed is a short, clear message to the Lebanonian & Syrian governments - "You will not have electricity & running water in Beirut/Damescus as long as Hizbullah won't be under control" - that's it.

Trust me, after the milions of $$$ their PM invested in Bridges, Electricity etc... the lebanonian army will fight the Hizbullah, not the IDF ;)

Yes most of your points are true except for one. The army will fight even though they dont have the capability, as for the army fighting hezbollah, thats a joke. Why would you fight those who you help train and arm? ;)

[citizen-k]

Because his investments in power stations & bridges are bigger then his investments in the Hizbullah.

The only reason he is not kicking them out is Syria.

My grandfather had many friends all the way up to Beirut - hopefully one day there will be a free, reasonable government in Lebanon so I will be able to visit them.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

oiless arabic economy? rofl
Whats the deal if gas is to be extracted of Gaza I believe the PNA had an agreement with Israel over the sharing of revenues.

[IDFM203]

When you muslims finnaly understand that we don't your f*** land? we Don't need Gaza we don't need SL we don't wan't syria and we don't want To control any arab any more.... Just want to live in peace.

The arabs dont want to understand and they certainly dont want peace. Arafat tried for a lucky break in 2000 to try and get more out of Oslo, he took a gamble and consequently all the trouble today.
Israel is the stupid party in all of this, for beleiving that people like the arabs and Arafat (in 93) would want peace after pressing home terror for the better part of a century. Even worse the PA police (ex PLO) were allowed by Israel to be supplied with small arms (why would a civil police force require more then pistols?)
Israels worst enemy is its own political left wing who have to be more liberal then anyone else.Great post!!







Israel is the stupid party in all of this, for beleiving that people like the arabs and Arafat (in 93) would want peace after pressing home terror for the better part of a century.
Going the right way to piss off some of the Israelis on the forum. Nope not me ;) …unfortunately there were/is a lot of stupid Israelis, I will be the first to admit that.

Wanting peace is great, and most Israelis do desire that, but being blind and falling for clear false hopes is being stupid!!

Shalom :D

[One?]

lol so you are saying all israelis want to live in peace. Thats why they shot rabin right?

[IDFM203]

So your back….or at least back with my posts ;) :D


lol so you are saying all israelis want to live in peace. Thats why they shot rabin right? First of all, they is ONE person.

Secondly I do not approve of him killing Rabin(as I am against any Jew killing another Jew) but he killed him not because he didn’t want peace but because he thought that Rabin was falling for a suicidal process that was endangering Israel if completed much more then it was going to bring any real peace.

In that he was correct!!

Shalom :D

[citizen-k]

lol so you are saying all israelis want to live in peace. Thats why they shot rabin right?

As IDFM203 said, one person shot him.

Israel, unlike ALL arab countries is a democracy where people can have their own opinion.

Want an example?

April 1995, I met Rabin at my parents house - although I was carrying a gun and held different opinions about Oslo, I did not shoot him.

Surprised? I guess you are, other wise, what kind of arab are you?

(unless canda spoiled you...)

[Tane Angle]

While I'm sure that the above post wasn't meant to offend anyone, part of it could be interpreted as a dig at a certain group of people, and a very offensive dig at that. No offense meant though, bud.

On a different note, what was Rabin like? Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[MaDuce]

Build a tall thick cement wall with heavily armed and fortified checkpoints. BTW I have heard some weird rumors about Hezzbula. I heard looks of their emembers are dying in hand to hand comabt. Which is silly since last time I checked there where no ninjas in the IDF....right :-*$