Which M4 do you suggest??

[Red Craiola]

Hi to everybody, I'm looking forward to buy an M4 replica for softair. I read around the web that many guys found problems in the M4s, suggesting instead to buy an M16. I'd like to know your experiences and all infos and hints are appreciated!!!Thanks!

[Xamor]

Classic Army M15A4 C.Q.B. Its short, it has crane stock and ris. So it has already all the things you would but to your colt/armalite. woot

[Sand Man]

Classic Army M15A4 C.Q.B. Its short, it has crane stock and ris. So it has already all the things you would but to your colt/armalite. woot

Too heavy, though, even with the foregrip.

I find Marui's RIS much better and relaible in the field.

[ris6]

Ca M15a4 Cqb

[Spartan XV]

New model G&P M4 (CQBR, RAS II, or the new M16A3).

Dont listen to what anyone says about them, I have one and my friend has one, both are awsome. The metal is much better than the CAs, but in the end all the guns are good, however you always have a chance of getting a lemon.

1. TM M4s will almost always work forever in stock form.
2. CAs have a metal body, but have a better chance of being a lemon, not a huge chance, but its greater than the TM.
3. The G&Ps have the greatest chance of being a lemon, BUT, when they work, the kick royal a**.

(Stay away from ICS series weapons no advantage over any of the others, but their new AK is good)

[Kartoon]

Anything from CA. The newest production line from CA's outwits Marui by a long shot. It takes an M120 spring without other internal replacements and is very reliable.

[TacoDelRio]

CA's are reliable now, with their newer versions.

TM is the MOST reliable, but they don't have metal recievers and most parts, so they lack external durability compared ot the CA's.

I go with a CA M15A4 RIS personally.

[Blarney]

softair? welcome to 2006 bro, we call it airsoft these days...look on the forum title ;)

[Anthony91]

CA's are reliable now, with their newer versions.

TM is the MOST reliable, but they don't have metal recievers and most parts, so they lack external durability compared ot the CA's.

I go with a CA M15A4 RIS personally.

Either that or a CA M15A4 S.P.R. {M16A4 with a KAC M5 RAS}

[redhawk_six]

TM M4A1
Tried, tested and true.

[TH_CYRUS50]

Want to spend big bugs
Systema training rifle M4.
Don't own it but still a dream for me and i think i am not the only one.
Down side, expesive as hell over 1200 us$

Want to go cheaper.
ICS M4
ICS M4 RIS

Great internals, and the M4 is on my wish list for this month i hope

Greets Cy

[TacoDelRio]

ICS is good for more experienced guys who are good at toying with the internals. I'm not one of them so I'd stay away from it. However, if you enjoy doing that, it's cheap.

I recommend either a metal body and part'ed out TM, or a CA.

[Hypno85]

I was talking to friend who does airsoft because i want the Classic Army M15A4 and he was saying something about the trigger grip being weak and i should buy the gun and a full metal trigger grip but by this time i had a blank look on my face lol.

[Death.]

ummmmmmmmadaummmmmm... you will never find a metal trigger grip..ever, the real M-16's have the plastic grips on them, and so do the airsofts. :D

There's nothing weak about the CA pistol grip, very sturdy. And comfortable

[TacoDelRio]

The grip is fine. If you wanted to, ther are reinforced grips out there for somewhat cheap, made by STAR and other company's.

[Kartoon]

Nothing weak on the M15a4 actually :D
You can have your friend stand on a table with the end of the barrel under his shoe and the gun pointing out over the table edge. The gun won't bend. Do that to a marui and tha'ts about the last thing you do to/with it.

[tenda]

welcome...well the ics is ok....i like the ca too...!!!!!!:)

[Death.]

Nothing weak on the M15a4 actually :D
You can have your friend stand on a table with the end of the barrel under his shoe and the gun pointing out over the table edge. The gun won't bend. Do that to a marui and tha'ts about the last thing you do to/with it.

The way it sounds is weak. :(

[Kartoon]

You mean when you shoot it?
I'd normally think that a gun is about to fall apart inside if it's too lowd :D

[Red Craiola]

Thanks to all you folks for the answers...I had the idea to stick with CA and now I think I'll go for the CA M15A4 RIS!!!

[Death.]

You mean when you shoot it?
I'd normally think that a gun is about to fall apart inside if it's too lowd :D

It sounds like an LPEG basically. lol

[Ozymandias]

I'd say you go for the M15A4 tactical carbine......

It's essentially an M4 with a fixed stock. A couple of friends that got the normal M4 said the CA handguard is rather weak and likely to fail after one battery change too many.

So, my two cents is either go for the fixed stock version, or get the Crane stock version.....

[Kartoon]

He already said he'd go with the RIS, and it's got neither of those problems. And I don't know what your friends are talking about, the handguards on my TC aren't showing any sign of wearing down :O

[Ozymandias]

Dunno man.....I never had any problems with mine, but of course mine takes the battery in the stock, so I wouldn't know.

A couple of friends had theirs weaken and finally break. What can I say man.....

[TacoDelRio]

If so, apparently newer CA's accept actual AR15 fore ends, so go ahead and slap some name brand handguards on that bitch.

[Kartoon]

Dunno man.....I never had any problems with mine, but of course mine takes the battery in the stock, so I wouldn't know.

A couple of friends had theirs weaken and finally break. What can I say man.....
Strange, but then again, who am I to say about their guns. I know what I know about mine and I'll stick to that p-)

[IceUK]

The CA M15 series is the best choice in my opinion.

Externally the body isn't the best metal body out there, far from it, and the RIS systems on the RIS and SPC aren't true to spec.

However internally they're very durable and lovely to work on. Internals vary dependant on which version you have, the SPC and RIS have 7mm bearing gearboxes where as the carbines, tac carbines and rifles all have 6mm bushing gearboxes, so the ROF in the SPC and RIS is slightly high, battery life is extended, and firing is generally smoother.

The CQB is in a class of its own, far superior internals than all other M15s. It uses a slightly thinner spring of the same power, which is mounted on a bearing spring guide, it also has an aluminium vented bearing piston head, brass cylinder head, plus an o-ring seal nozzle.
Personally I would have used a Polycarb bearing-less piston head and a plastic cylinder head, but you can't expect them to get everything right.

CA barrels are meant to be 6.08mm, however they are far more inaccurate than TM barrels which ARE 6.08mm.

I have two M15s, one ages old and has had well over 50,000 rounds through it at varying FPSs from 300 to 380 and at voltages from 8.4 through to 10.8 and it's still holding on strong.

The best thing about CA's is the fact that you get a quality piston and standard ratio gear set able to eat a 120 for breakfast and sip on a 10.8volt battery at the same time. Love 'em!

One thing that always makes me laugh is when people put Systema full tune up kits in CAs, totally pointless. The best way to upgrade a CA is:

Bearing spring guide
SP1*0 – whatever spring
Tightbore barrel
New hopup rubber
Remove the 2nd tooth from the piston
10.8volt battery


Ice

[TH_CYRUS50]

Ow Ice thank god that you know your stuff.

I am starting a new project and that also inlcude's upgrading.
I want to buy a M15A4 Rifle put a M16 RIS on it and make it shoot 380/400 FPS.
The ICS wasway over budget, so i just stuck to CA
If you got any more tips, please share them.

What do you mean by "remove the second tooth"

Cheers Cy

[IceUK]

When the sector gear engages with the piston it picks it up on the first piston tooth. This tooth is slightly larger and more bulky; it has to be in order to take the pressures of being engages with such speed by the sector gear. The rest of the teeth on the piston are thinner because they don't endure as much strain. Except the last tooth that it, which is made of steel because it has the entire force of the spring pressure resting on it when the sector gear lets it go.

Now sometimes when you use an after market piston head, use and airbrake system, when you increase your ROF or get an air blockage the piston doesn't return to it's resting position quite as quickly as it should. The sector gear is still spinning at the same speed; it comes round and instead of picking up the piston via the large first tooth it can occasionally pick it up via the second tooth. Sometimes it'll just snap straight off, which is what I've seen happen to Systema red pistons, being so brittle. Other times it will start pulling the piston back, get so far as about 5 teeth then just shred all of them.

Removing the second tooth stops premature engagement with the sector gear and as I said, it’s very useful in high speed set ups.

Hell, in my high speed set up I've removed the second and third teeth from the piston, I've also swisscheesed it to make it lighter, but this isn't necessary for just a standard set up, I’m a bit of a nut when it comes to ROF.

To make an M15 rifle shoot at 380 accurately I'd go for:

Guarder Bearing Spring Guide
Prometheus MS110 Spring (MS120 for 400fps)
Prometheus 6.03mm Barrel
Guarder clear hopup rubber
New O-ring on the piston head (CA ones can be too small) TM ones are the best – optional, some CA have a good seal.
Removal of second tooth from the piston

The picture shows a Systema Area 1000 piston (wouldn't recommend ever using one) with the second tooth removed, it has also been mildly swisscheesed.

Hope this helps,


Ice

[Digital Marine]

Whow! Welcome here Ice! i think your expertise and knownledge will come in handy around here!:)

[ebola.EOD]

Honestly:if you dont need any upgrades,tak Marui M4 (and metal body maybe),cause it works for years with no problem. CAs suck,some series work really nice,some of them dont. GP has some bugs too,and ICS is in my opinion not worth the price it costs, the barrel etc. are more like old style marui than a full metal gun...if you have a handy friend who is able to disassemble the gun and check it for possibel factory mistkaes,tak CA or GP. if oyu wanna jsut "buy and shoot" take marui.

[IceUK]

Cheers Digital Marine, happy to help out.

Ebola can you give me some reasons as to why you think CAs suck? Lets see if it's longer that my list of why I think CAs do not suck.

As for a Marui M4 with no upgrades - yes it will last a long time, but this fellow said he wanted a gun shooting at 380-400fps. This leads me to believe his site permits 400fps. Take a stock TM to an open site with a 400fps limits and I'll take a CA at that limit and then we can dance.

Also see how much it costs to get a CA to 400fps? You could stick a 120 in a CA and nothing else, and it'll hold it well; try that with a TM and see how many shots you get out of it!

CAs can be just as reliable at low fps, and more reliable at high fps than a TM, just so long as you know what you're doing when it comes to gearbox modifications.


Ice

[Milla]

You will regret getting a plastic body like the TM's trust me. I regretted it, and sold my TM and got a CA. And from using a real M4, the CA feels more sturdy and realistic to the real one as opposed to the TM.

[Kartoon]

Honestly:if you dont need any upgrades,tak Marui M4 (and metal body maybe),cause it works for years with no problem. CAs suck,some series work really nice,some of them dont. GP has some bugs too,and ICS is in my opinion not worth the price it costs, the barrel etc. are more like old style marui than a full metal gun...if you have a handy friend who is able to disassemble the gun and check it for possibel factory mistkaes,tak CA or GP. if oyu wanna jsut "buy and shoot" take marui.

This might be true if you've used an older CA. They've had a lot of problems back then, but the newest production line is amazing. You can't tell it's crap, if you've used it, they're amazing and without a hint of doubt I can tell you it takes an M120 spring in it without any other internal upgrades. Other upgrades are good, ofcourse, but not necessary.

[bobbo]

http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?itm=CA-AEG-M15A4SPC_cat_Classic%20Army%20AEG

If you like the looks of it, that is. High quality, great performance, full stock for large battery and RIS

[Milla]

Kinda wish i had the full stock version, so i can transform it into a crane stock without rewiring lol

[p51]

Kinda wish i had the full stock version, so i can transform it into a crane stock without rewiring lol
For me, I've sometimes wished I'd gotten the full stock one so I could have it more balanced, use a large battery, and not need the battery box I'm suing now...

[Milla]

Eh, i dont like the full stock, even for that capability. The A2 stock is to long, especially with gear on. Thats why collapsible stocks are so popular in the military now.

[Death.]

It aint that hard to rewire milla, like OMG!

[Milla]

Like omg i cant trust myself with opening a gear box!

[IceUK]

It's a piece of piss milla. The only reason you're scared of it is probably because you've heard stories of 12 year olds opening them and not having a bloody clue what do to.

Research what you need online, watch a disassembly video, ask someone who knows how to help you out. If thousands of others can do it you can too. Also, there isn't much that can go wrong opening up a mechbox, just be sure to watch out for shims, and put the piston in its resting position before you start.

Simple as mate!


Ice

[Anthony91]

Like omg i cant trust myself with opening a gear box!

Same here. Thats why I have my brother do it for me.

[xEDGEx]

Kinda wish i had the full stock version, so i can transform it into a crane stock without rewiring lol

You still get +50 cool points for having a real VLTOR on that bad boy.

[Anthony91]

You still get +50 cool points for having a real VLTOR on that bad boy.

The limit on cool points is 30 points.

[Death.]

The limit on cool points is 30 points.

Well there's a +20 point added bonus when you're in the military

[Anthony91]

Well there's a +20 point added bonus when you're in the military

And a +10 if your a Leet Mutha Fu**er.:)

[TacoDelRio]

I'm with Milla. I'll have others do my internal work. I've turned a few guns into training or props!

[ebola.EOD]

This might be true if you've used an older CA. They've had a lot of problems back then, but the newest production line is amazing. You can't tell it's crap, if you've used it, they're amazing and without a hint of doubt I can tell you it takes an M120 spring in it without any other internal upgrades. Other upgrades are good, ofcourse, but not necessary.

Aye,your right. Most of the CAs I worked with were the older generation,but saw two new pcs-M16A2 and M4 CQBR. M16A2 had crooked hop up chamber so needed to work with a file to make it feed the BBs. The CQBR had the similar problem + absolutely fvcked up gear shimming. and honestly-two new right-outta-box guns are for me enough to say,that this brand is not absolutely perfect.but i can say the same about GP or GG too. I do use the GP and was probably teh first one i CZ who ahd it,but almost all the GPs ehre have problems with feeding,the older ones had problems with crackin tappet plate too. I am not sure if these problems had GPs in other countries too,but here arent very popular..