****** revolution in Polish schools

[perdurabo]

http://www.kurczeblade.pl/wp-content/wujkowska150.jpg
this lady one of our primeminister adviser want's to change ****** health lessons so they will be teaching on natural birth controll
and viceminister of healthcare applouds
http://m.onet.pl/_m/fc8cdc6f09d84a1189005d05c1e577f2,5,1.jpg
so Europe don't worry about aging population Polish kids will get pregnant and help our statistics woot



:cantbeli: good God what a dumbasses where elected in my country :cantbeli:

[mack pl]

good news for me....natural birth controll methods...more kids....more teachers...job for me.... cool :) rofl

[Asheren]

Head of comission or whatever they call it will be a guy that is extreme an anti-abortion (including when pregnacy is a threat for woman life), pro natural birth regulation freak. I am starting to think that for our current government woman role in society is to be a package for childrens.

[ZaakM433]

its called abstinence! polishoe

[Bert]

What's with people inventing new words to paint their moralist views as fact? Like that bull**** 'intelligent design', which they actually tried to teach along with the evolution theory in the U.S.. And now, 'natural' birth control. What's that, pulling out? Can't wait to see how they'll teach that in a class room.

[striker]

What's with people inventing new words to paint their moralist views as fact? Like that bull**** 'intelligent design', which they actually tried to teach along with the evolution theory in the U.S.. And now, 'natural' birth control. What's that, pulling out? Can't wait to see how they'll teach that in a class room.
No, natural birthcontrol is: You naturally don't screw around before marriage, after that its only natural.

Seriously, some polish clergymen would have been pretty decent Ayatollahs given the chance. No wonder that their followers have such ideas.

[Asheren]

Actualy some of them arn't much diffrent than Ayatollachs.

ps. you forgot that you screw to have childrens, screwing for plesure is a sin.

[striker]

Actualy some of them arn't much diffrent than Ayatollachs.

ps. you forgot that you screw to have childrens, screwing for plesure is a sin.
Oczywiscie.
So you now understand what they mean with natural birthcontrol - only kids made by people that do what the church tells them is what they want, naturally.

[Daniel1115]

You can thank people like St. Augustine - who preached that *** was only for reproduction and should be avoided as much as possible - for that. Jerome also stated that "all ****** intercourse is unclean."

[Plastic_Yank]

You can thank people like St. Augustine - who preached that *** was only for reproduction and should be avoided as much as possible - for that.Pray tell, where in specific does he say this?


Head of comission or whatever they call it will be a guy that is extreme an anti-abortion (including when pregnacy is a threat for woman life), pro natural birth regulation freak. I am starting to think that for our current government woman role in society is to be a package for childrens.Yee-haw! Up with Poland!!:) woot

[buttchowder]

Protestants for the win lol!

jk

[Warlord]

Yeah! We Catholics are just so EVIL!

[Count Lippe]

You're only dumb...p-)

[Daniel1115]

Pray tell, where in specific does he say this?
Chapter 6 of 'Another Look At *** : The Biblical Perspective by Charles Phillips

St. Augustine was a great theologian and scholar who did some tremendous things as it relates to bringing revelation and insight to the Scriptures. His position on ****** matters was rather basic and clear. He believed that *** was sinful. (Can you imagine God saying to Adam and Eve, "Be fruitful and multiply," and when they did, He punished them for it?)

St. Augustine believed that Adam and Eve's problem in the Garden was because of ***. "He believed that the account of Adam and Eve's sin against God in Genesis 3 uses symbolic language, that the 'forbidden fruit' actually represented ***. He thought Eve conceived and bore children in pain (Genesis 3:16) because *** is sinful, and any kind of ****** activity brings pain.

"According to St. Augustine, human beings should ask God's forgiveness for even thinking about *** and should abstain whenever possible. In fact, Augustine said, 'Men and women who want to be righteous in God's sight should live in celibacy; i.e., without ****** contact.' His adherents believed their leaders should live in church monasteries and convents without even conversing with the opposite ***." ** ( Lester Sumrall )

http://www.patriarchywebsite.com/bib-patriarchy/deception-augustine-love-***.htm

[Asheren]

Wasn't he the one that cut off his you know what...

[Switek]

Change name of this tread for counterrevolution...

would be more fair, wouldn't it?

[CPL Trevoga]

You can thank people like St. Augustine - who preached that *** was only for reproduction and should be avoided as much as possible - for that. Jerome also stated that "all ****** intercourse is unclean."

I think St.Augustine is a full of it. He used to party hard back in B.C. days, then he turned pious.

[Plastic_Yank]

Chapter 6 of 'Another Look At *** : The Biblical Perspective by Charles PhillipsNo, show me where Augustine says so, in his own words.


I think St.Augustine is a full of it. He used to party hard back in B.C. days, then he turned pious.Give it a rest. If he'd been a virgin his entire life instead, you'd be saying he didn't know anything about ***.:roll:

[kineret]

how come most people who are anti abortion are people you wouldnt want to **** in the first place?

[Plastic_Yank]

how come most people who are anti abortion are people you wouldnt want to **** in the first place?You must not get out very much.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

You have to admit that it's pretty funny. Here we are, biological entities that basically serve as transportation mechanisms to allow us to bring our naughty bits over to other people, cram them in, and produce a copy of ourselves. But the minute that anybody has the temerity to suggest that if we don't want little copies of ourselves, that we quit stuffing things into other things, everybody comes unglued.

[Flamming_Python]

Looks like there is soon to be a Polish-Russian population race soon :D

Interesting to see who will have more success.

[Asheren]

You have to admit that it's pretty funny. Here we are, biological entities that basically serve as transportation mechanisms to allow us to bring our naughty bits over to other people, cram them in, and produce a copy of ourselves. But the minute that anybody has the temerity to suggest that if we don't want little copies of ourselves, that we quit stuffing things into other things, everybody comes unglued.

I don't care that they want to stuff their parts in to others parts only to make a copies of themself as long as they don't try to force me to do it their way. I am quite happy to use Satans Tools co. copy protection system to prevent unwanted copies. Copy protection sold and promoted by Church Inc. is not reliable enough and i don't like what they got in their terms of aggrement.

[Plastic_Yank]

Looks like there is soon to be a Polish-Russian population race soon :D

Interesting to see who will have more success.May the best Slav win! woot rofl


I don't care that they want to stuff their parts in to others parts only to make a copies of themself as long as they don't try to force me to do it their way. I am quite happy to use Satans Tools co. copy protection system to prevent unwanted copies. Copy protection sold and promoted by Church Inc. is not reliable enough and i don't like what they got in their terms of aggrement.Why should you care about it? It doesn't concern you at all.

[Wodan]

I´m happy for poland, but at same time sad we don´t have such a government in germany (besides the fact it would be better if ours wasn´t anti-german unlike the polish one..)

[towelie]

I´m happy for poland, but at same time sad we don´t have such a government in germany (besides the fact it would be better if ours wasn´t anti-german unlike the polish one..)

lol yeah, horray for a declining population, but thank god for the all those lovely immigrants that surely do make Germany such a great place.

[Gauntlet]

I really don't see anything wrong with abstinance. You make abstinance sound like a sin. If performed, it's very effective.

[Asheren]

May the best Slav win! woot rofl

Why should you care about it? It doesn't concern you at all.

It does those folks think "I am ultracatholic(nationalist optional) everyone else in this country is." Anyone that is not on our side is a gay,pedophile,leftwinger, anarchist, foregin intelligence agent, commie etc. etc. They promote traditional family model. aka. Woman role in society is to stay at home and teake care of childrens. Ofcourse in their fanatic blindness they don't see that 60% of society would be unable to sustain its family if only one of parents works. I have lots of friends that want to have childrens but they can't due to economicial reason. In same time they use government cash to finance church building. Besides there is a lot of peoples that don't give s#4t about catholic church and its rules they try to enforce on peoples throu law even when they are memmbers of it. If there would be a church tax amount of followers would decrase rapidly.

[ZaakM433]

Actualy some of them arn't much diffrent than Ayatollachs.

ps. you forgot that you screw to have childrens, screwing for plesure is a sin.

That position is contrary to most protestant beliefs.

[Bert]

That position is contrary to most protestant beliefs.
But we're talking about catholics, aren't we?

[khukuri]

Seriously, some polish clergymen would have been pretty decent Ayatollahs given the chance. No wonder that their followers have such ideas.



hehe a shame really

[Warlord]

I nearly have not enough catholic bashing lately. heheheheh......whenever I go to chatrooms about religion....protestant rooms are usually empty.....but catholic rooms....everybody is attacking or defending. We're really that evil and want to dominate the world just like Pinky and the Brain.

[Plastic_Yank]

It does those folks think "I am ultracatholic(nationalist optional) everyone else in this country is." Anyone that is not on our side is a gay,pedophile,leftwinger, anarchist, foregin intelligence agent, commie etc. etc.No, that's what you want to think that they think.


They promote traditional family model. aka. Woman role in society is to stay at home and teake care of childrens.That is the most practical way for a family to operate.


Ofcourse in their fanatic blindness they don't see that 60% of society would be unable to sustain its family if only one of parents works. I have lots of friends that want to have childrens but they can't due to economicial reason.Heh, my parents never had any trouble raising all nine of us on a single salary.


In same time they use government cash to finance church building. Besides there is a lot of peoples that don't give s#4t about catholic church and its rules they try to enforce on peoples throu law even when they are memmbers of it.Don't you mean, "even when they are not members of it?"


If there would be a church tax amount of followers would decrase rapidly.Considering the strength of the Church in Poland, even under the Communists, I find that assumption rather unlikely.


We're really that evil and want to dominate the world just like Pinky and the Brain.LOL

For the good of Mankind!woot rofl

[Asheren]

Nope its what they generaly say when someone is accusing them of trying to mix religion and politics, trying to push laws discrimination peoples not living in catholic way etc. In shortest word you can put it in a way:
Question: why you wan't to make law that would put catholic religion in better position than other religions.
Reply: We will not talk with peoples connected to... bla bla bla or something like that.

Practical maybe but i don't wish to enforce it any way especialy considering country economicial situation. Unlike some of our politicians want to.

Well in my country 59% of peoples live below social minimum. With our curent cost of life its ofen hard for two working young peoples to mantain their living standards.

Nope i said what i said. Ever heard term beliving not practicing. Church is fighting with its hands and teeth to prevent church taxes because many of those peoples would most propably decide to leave church. Majority of peoples that reguraly visit church are peoples from country side where Priest is offen more important than government authority and unbelivers will face serious intolerance, older peoples and kids until confirmation usualy. It wouldn't be a sudden drop but slowly it would most propably decrase. Not to mention that teologicaly our church is still in dark ages. You would be supprised how many alduts here still belive that Devil is a guy with horns and oversized fork. Our education system is designed in a way that it avoids telling anything about other religions if possible. If you are atheist or memmber of any religion you must be prepared for religious intolerance in many forms.

[Plastic_Yank]

Nope its what they generaly say when someone is accusing them of trying to mix religion and politics, trying to push laws discrimination peoples not living in catholic way etc. In shortest word you can put it in a way:
Question: why you wan't to make law that would put catholic religion in better position than other religions.
Reply: We will not talk with peoples connected to... bla bla bla or something like that.To me, that sounds very much more like what you or someone like you would say when in the process of making such accusations.


Practical maybe but i don't wish to enforce it any way especialy considering country economicial situation. Unlike some of our politicians want to.Right. Let's all be impractical, and shell out the tax money for state day-care.:roll:


Well in my country 59% of peoples live below social minimum. With our curent cost of life its ofen hard for two working young peoples to mantain their living standards.Oh really? And what are these living standards, on average?


Nope i said what i said. Ever heard term beliving not practicing.An oxymoron.


Church is fighting with its hands and teeth to prevent church taxes because many of those peoples would most propably decide to leave church. Majority of peoples that reguraly visit church are peoples from country side where Priest is offen more important than government authorityI take you think this is a bad thing.


and unbelivers will face serious intolerance, older peoples and kids until confirmation usualy.Say again?


Not to mention that teologicaly our church is still in dark ages. You would be supprised how many alduts here still belive that Devil is a guy with horns and oversized fork.I'm sure.


Our education system is designed in a way that it avoids telling anything about other religions if possible. If you are atheist or memmber of any religion you must be prepared for religious intolerance in many forms.Nothing wrong with that. Drug-education programs in schools generally lead to more drug-use, ***-education leads to more under-age ***, so it would follow that teaching kids about other religions while their own faith is still forming is a Bad Move.

[Flamming_Python]

Is their any possibilty that Polands Government is playing the religion card so that they can increase their population (disclaimer: this is not a critisism :D )?

If that indeed was their objective, this would be quite a smart way of achieving it.

[Kaapeli]

Nothing wrong with that. Drug-education programs in schools generally lead to more drug-use, ***-education leads to more under-age ***, so it would follow that teaching kids about other religions while their own faith is still forming is a Bad Move.

For whom is that a bad move? For christianity?
Don't teach people about other religions so they don't get a chance to change or renounce the one they are born into by default? Isn't that the real reason?

Talk about christian talebans...

[Asheren]

Is their any possibilty that Polands Government is playing the religion card so that they can increase their population (disclaimer: this is not a critisism :D )?

If that indeed was their objective, this would be quite a smart way of achieving it.

They play religion card because its part of their ideology and to stay in power. Recent pools showed that current govenrmnet is mostly supported by peoples from countryside and pensioners. Its also main "power" base of catholic church. Pensioners are also most disciplined part of electorate.

[Plastic_Yank]

For whom is that a bad move? For christianity?
Don't teach people about other religions so they don't get a chance to change or renounce the one they are born into by default? Exactly. They can learn about other religions when they're older and more emotionally mature

Come to think of it, you seem to be forgetting that the parents have a say in their childrens' lives (especially at that point), and not just the kids themselves.


They play religion card because its part of their ideology and to stay in power.Obviously, but you seem to believe that they're obligated to act against their own ideology in favour of yours.


Recent pools showed that current govenrmnet is mostly supported by peoples from countryside and pensioners. Its also main "power" base of catholic church. Pensioners are also most disciplined part of electorate.That last statement ought to tell you something.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Uh, the evil-catholic-coalition seems to forget one important issue: youths these days have their own opinions and in most cases they just won't give a sh*t about what some teacher or priest will say to them...

[Kaapeli]

Exactly. They can learn about other religions when they're older and more emotionally mature.

When is that? I'm not sure about your country but here they start teaching other religions on 7th grade.
That's also about the time when kids really start to think for themselves.

Would your no-other-religions-taught-policy also extent to children born muslim or hindu or buddhist in your country? Should they also have the right to deny the teaching of christiany to their kids?


Come to think of it, you seem to be forgetting that the parents have a say in their childrens' lives (especially at that point), and not just the kids themselves.

No, I don't think I did. But you seem to forget that not everyone is christian?

[Kaapeli]

double post.

[Plastic_Yank]

Uh, the evil-catholic-coalition seems to forget one important issue: youths these days have their own opinions and in most cases they just won't give a sh*t about what some teacher or priest will say to them...Don't be so certain of that...


When is that? I'm not sure about your country but here they start teaching other religions on 7th grade.
That's also about the time when kids really start to think for themselves.I'm thinking lates teens to early twenties, which is about the time that most kids begin to think.


Would your no-other-religions-taught-policy also extent to children born muslim or hindu or buddhist in your country? Should they also have the right to deny the teaching of christiany to their kids?That would only seem fair, in a non-denominational sort of way.



No, I don't think I did. But you seem to forget that not everyone is christian?Last I heard, 95 percent of Poles were self-identified Catholics.

[Flamming_Python]

They play religion card because its part of their ideology and to stay in power. Recent pools showed that current govenrmnet is mostly supported by peoples from countryside and pensioners. Its also main "power" base of catholic church. Pensioners are also most disciplined part of electorate.

Understood... Most unfortunate.

[Plastic_Yank]

Understood... Most unfortunate.From a certain point of view.

[Kaapeli]

Last I heard, 95 percent of Poles were self-identified Catholics.

Yes, but propably only a small minority are fundamentalists like you and practice their religion actively.

[Plastic_Yank]

Yes, but propably only a small minority are fundamentalists like you and practice their religion actively.First, doesn't it seem a little odd to you that you're conflating the generic term "fundamentalist" with the mere act of taking one's religion seriously?

Secondly, it's amusing to see that you've been reduced to making guesses.

[Kaapeli]

First, doesn't it seem a little odd to you that you're conflating the generic term "fundamentalist" with the mere act of taking one's religion seriously?

Nope. Fundamentalists take their religious dogmas very seriously and try to force it down everybody's throaths usually through laws. Anti-abortion, anti-teaching-other-religions, anti-homo******ity, anti-evolution, pro-"christian family values" etc.etc. Find anything familiar?


Secondly, it's amusing to see that you've been reduced to making guesses.

I admit, I am forced to make guesses when talking about Poland since I have no research available for that. But research shows that here and in other west european countries only around 1/4 or less of the "christian" population actively practice their religion and have fundamentalist views.
I do know that Poland is slightly more religous than most of EU but I don't think the difference is that great.

[Drako]

I'm reading this thread and seriously I can't believe my own eyes. Asheren keeps displaying Poland as middle-ages country with castles and deth penalty for non-believers, Kaapeli keeps saying that practicing your religion is equal to fundamentalism... I'll go OT but just have to straighten something up.

Our current government consists of a bunch of idiots, yes. But don't listen to Asheren. In my whole life noone have ever asked about my faith or ****** orientation. Noone really cares what you do at home or during your free time. But hell, these days you can't have your own opinion - if your're not politically correct you're instantly labelled as homophobe, taliban, ayatollah or fundamentalist. If I say that I don't agree with free abortion - I have a bunch of feminists on my back, if I don't agree with gay parades - I'm a homophobe, if I go to church - I'm an ayatollah or taliban. Where's the common sense for the fvcks sake? 95% of Poles are catholic of which about a half are at some level practicing catholics. Why catholic church is put in a better position than other churches? Because it's a majority. Yes, most of hardcore catholics live in the countryside, where traditions are very strong, where father, grandfather etc were catholic, where everything for centuries was in the same order. They are less educated but guess why they voted for PiS. They voted because of the PC crap you see everywhere, where you can throw your own child through the window and get 3 years of jail, where you can legally kill an unborn child because mother is inresponsible, where criminals have more rights than police, where more money is spent on feeding killers than on helping homeless people, where you can't wear a cross on your neck cos you insult atheists, where most of their traditions are ignored. PiS, Samoobrona and LPR are products of political correctness. As much as I disagree with methods used by those parties, I can understand older people voting for them - that's not the country they were fighting for and later building from scrap.

[Bert]

First, doesn't it seem a little odd to you that you're conflating the generic term "fundamentalist" with the mere act of taking one's religion seriously?
A religious fundamentalist is no harm until he brings his fundamentalist views into politics, that is, forcing his views onto others via legislation, as common in our part of the world, or bombs.

[daily666]

I'm reading this thread and seriously I can't believe my own eyes. Asheren keeps displaying Poland as middle-ages country with castles and deth penalty for non-believers, Kaapeli keeps saying that practicing your religion is equal to fundamentalism... I'll go OT but just have to straighten something up.

Our current government consists of a bunch of idiots, yes. But don't listen to Asheren. In my whole life noone have ever asked about my faith or ****** orientation. Noone really cares what you do at home or during your free time. But hell, these days you can't have your own opinion - if your're not politically correct you're instantly labelled as homophobe, taliban, ayatollah or fundamentalist. If I say that I don't agree with free abortion - I have a bunch of feminists on my back, if I don't agree with gay parades - I'm a homophobe, if I go to church - I'm an ayatollah or taliban. Where's the common sense for the fvcks sake? 95% of Poles are catholic of which about a half are at some level practicing catholics. Why catholic church is put in a better position than other churches? Because it's a majority. Yes, most of hardcore catholics live in the countryside, where traditions are very strong, where father, grandfather etc were catholic, where everything for centuries was in the same order. They are less educated but guess why they voted for PiS. They voted because of the PC crap you see everywhere, where you can throw your own child through the window and get 3 years of jail, where you can legally kill an unborn child because mother is inresponsible, where criminals have more rights than police, where more money is spent on feeding killers than on helping homeless people, where you can't wear a cross on your neck cos you insult atheists, where most of their traditions are ignored. PiS, Samoobrona and LPR are products of political correctness. As much as I disagree with methods used by those parties, I can understand older people voting for them - that's not the country they were fighting for and later building from scrap.


Well you're right, and in one point extremely: Most ultracatholics live in the countryside. You guys wouldn't believe how big is a gap in this case between those living in the big cities and in the countryside, expecially in (what we call) Poland B which is basically south-east Poland. The problem in PC is that it only starts to exist in Poland. And maybe it's good to respect the point of view/race/***/religion of the others as long as they respect yours. I also don't understand the point of gay parades, because I've never been asked about my ******tity or orientation, but I'm talking about city life, it's much different in the country, where one accusation that you're gay could blow your life apart, especially by a priest during the sunday mass where all the population is present and everybody knows each other.


edit: I also think that our current govt. is a bunch of f*cking idiots, celebrating witchcraft, national- socialist (although they call themselves rightwing) dumba*ses

[Plastic_Yank]

Nope. Fundamentalists take their religious dogmas very seriously and try to force it down everybody's throaths usually through laws.The religiously-minded are hardly unique in this. They're only one faction in a very bitter war.


A religious fundamentalist is no harm until he brings his fundamentalist views into politics, that is, forcing his views onto others via legislation, as common in our part of the world, or bombs.Unless of course, he is a religious fundamentalist of the post-modern secularist (i.e. Liberal) faith. Then, it's open season on everyone else's beliefs.:roll:


I'm reading this thread and seriously I can't believe my own eyes. Asheren keeps displaying Poland as middle-ages country with castles and deth penalty for non-believers, Kaapeli keeps saying that practicing your religion is equal to fundamentalism... I'll go OT but just have to straighten something up.
Our current government consists of a bunch of idiots, yes. But don't listen to Asheren. In my whole life noone have ever asked about my faith or ****** orientation. Noone really cares what you do at home or during your free time. But hell, these days you can't have your own opinion - if your're not politically correct you're instantly labelled as homophobe, taliban, ayatollah or fundamentalist. If I say that I don't agree with free abortion - I have a bunch of feminists on my back, if I don't agree with gay parades - I'm a homophobe, if I go to church - I'm an ayatollah or taliban. Where's the common sense for the fvcks sake? 95% of Poles are catholic of which about a half are at some level practicing catholics. Why catholic church is put in a better position than other churches? Because it's a majority. Yes, most of hardcore catholics live in the countryside, where traditions are very strong, where father, grandfather etc were catholic, where everything for centuries was in the same order. They are less educated but guess why they voted for PiS. They voted because of the PC crap you see everywhere, where you can throw your own child through the window and get 3 years of jail, where you can legally kill an unborn child because mother is inresponsible, where criminals have more rights than police, where more money is spent on feeding killers than on helping homeless people, where you can't wear a cross on your neck cos you insult atheists, where most of their traditions are ignored. PiS, Samoobrona and LPR are products of political correctness. As much as I disagree with methods used by those parties, I can understand older people voting for them - that's not the country they were fighting for and later building from scrap.Very interesting. Thanks for the input.

[Bert]

Unless of course, he is a religious fundamentalist of the post-modern secularist (i.e. Liberal) faith. Then, it's open season on everyone else's beliefs.:roll:
No, secularism is about letting everyone believe what they want, without enforcing others religious beliefs on people. State atheism is a relic of the Soviet Union.

The United States was founded on secularism, not Christianity.

[Asheren]

QUOTE=Drako]I'm reading this thread and seriously I can't believe my own eyes. Asheren keeps displaying Poland as middle-ages country with castles and deth penalty for non-believers, Kaapeli keeps saying that practicing your religion is equal to fundamentalism... I'll go OT but just have to straighten something up.

Our current government consists of a bunch of idiots, yes. But don't listen to Asheren. In my whole life noone have ever asked about my faith or ****** orientation. Noone really cares what you do at home or during your free time. But hell, these days you can't have your own opinion - if your're not politically correct you're instantly labelled as homophobe, taliban, ayatollah or fundamentalist. If I say that I don't agree with free abortion - I have a bunch of feminists on my back, if I don't agree with gay parades - I'm a homophobe, if I go to church - I'm an ayatollah or taliban. Where's the common sense for the fvcks sake? 95% of Poles are catholic of which about a half are at some level practicing catholics. Why catholic church is put in a better position than other churches? Because it's a majority. Yes, most of hardcore catholics live in the countryside, where traditions are very strong, where father, grandfather etc were catholic, where everything for centuries was in the same order. They are less educated but guess why they voted for PiS. They voted because of the PC crap you see everywhere, where you can throw your own child through the window and get 3 years of jail, where you can legally kill an unborn child because mother is inresponsible, where criminals have more rights than police, where more money is spent on feeding killers than on helping homeless people, where you can't wear a cross on your neck cos you insult atheists, where most of their traditions are ignored. PiS, Samoobrona and LPR are products of political correctness. As much as I disagree with methods used by those parties, I can understand older people voting for them - that's not the country they were fighting for and later building from scrap.[/QUOTE]

I might oversized some things problem with it is mostly lack of proper research in that matter. Even if it is done results would be difficult to confirm. I know many peoples that aren't catholics but if you ask they will declare themself as catholics. If you didn't noticed same rethoric is used by ultra catholics and by some priests.(God only knows how many others support them but are obidient to church and not do it in public) No one cares about your religion well i gues you didn't were in some villages i have been. When i was at my grand parents home they told peoples from village that i was sick when they asked why i wasn't at church in sunday. In school we had a girl that lived in village few km from my city where local priest talked who is meeting with who amongst youth druing sunday masses. If he disaproved it you could say goodbye to your relationship or you will have to visit him/he in their village. Not long ago after Kaczynscy were elected i was going to night club with some of my goth(there is a significant diffrence bewen our goths and western) friends. Old woman jumped on us mostly on one of my female friend. We heard something along the lines: You will pay soon and that satns b$5ch will be draged to church where she will be forced to ask god for forgivness. None of us had slightest idea who was she. You know what funny part is we didn't had any pentagrams or Metal bands shirts or anything like that. I meet offen with maybe not intolerance but negative reception for wearing black clothes. (i am not a goth i wear sometimes goth style clothes but not offen, usualy its just a black military style stuff.) Old ladies problem is that i might not look at them but i stil hear what they are talking about. We aren't living in dark ages but you can't say that we live in country with full religious freedom and things recently are changing for the worse.

Recently Jews started "shield" prject aimed at fighting death treats because it recently rised to higest level ever ecountered in our country since it became democracy.

[Plastic_Yank]

No, secularism is about letting everyone believe what they want, without enforcing others religious beliefs on people.That's a self-contradictory proposition.


State atheism is a relic of the Soviet Union.Fervently reverenced by a host of European governments. ;-)


The United States was founded on secularism, not Christianity.Wrong.


I might oversized some things problem with it is mostly lack of proper research in that matter. Even if it is done results would be difficult to confirm. I know many peoples that aren't catholics but if you ask they will declare themself as catholics. If you didn't noticed same rethoric is used by ultra catholics and by some priests.(God only knows how many others support them but are obidient to church and not do it in public) No one cares about your religion well i gues you didn't were in some villages i have been. When i was at my grand parents home they told peoples from village that i was sick when they asked why i wasn't at church in sunday. In school we had a girl that lived in village few km from my city where local priest talked who is meeting with who amongst youth druing sunday masses. If he disaproved it you could say goodbye to your relationship or you will have to visit him/he in their village.I'm curious as to what exactly is the average birthrate amongst urban Poles as opposed to the ones living in rural areas, because the general trend worldwide is that the more religious you are, the more children you have on average, and in a democracy, well...


Not long ago after Kaczynscy were elected i was going to night club with some of my goth(there is a significant diffrence bewen our goths and western) friends. Old woman jumped on us mostly on one of my female friend. We heard something along the lines: You will pay soon and that satns b$5ch will be draged to church where she will be forced to ask god for forgivness. None of us had slightest idea who was she. You know what funny part is we didn't had any pentagrams or Metal bands shirts or anything like that. I meet offen with maybe not intolerance but negative reception for wearing black clothes. (i am not a goth i wear sometimes goth style clothes but not offen, usualy its just a black military style stuff.) Old ladies problem is that i might not look at them but i stil hear what they are talking about. We aren't living in dark ages but you can't say that we live in country with full religious freedom and things recently are changing for the worse.Hey, you can't blame the Church for the existence of Crazy Old Ladies. I know one myself, and she probably thinks I'm going to go to hell because I'm not a total Pacifist like she is.

If she hadn't been raised Catholic, she'd likely find some other kind of outlet for her problems like neo-paganism.


Recently Jews started "shield" prject aimed at fighting death treats because it recently rised to higest level ever ecountered in our country since it became democracy.Quoted?

[Asheren]

It was recently in our news got no time to search for article besides i don't think you know Polish. Besides our current government made two law act that send government money for building church and to finance teaching of teology. Both of those law act are aginst our constitution.

[Switek]

Few remarks

1. Poles aren't homogenous nation by nor ethnic origin nor religion.
about 600.000 - 800.000 orthodox, 200.000 - 250.000 protestants and many, many others about more than 100.000, 200.000? Hardly to state...

2. As for catholics. Most of them are very passive. About 15% catholics attends at sundays masses in Warsaw and its neighborhood. In eaestern and southern part of Poland that rate is significantly higher.

3. Natural procreation methods are approved by catholic church but there are other methods much more convinient for many people.

4. A Polish state promoting officialy one method become a part in "outlook of life" conflict became a side of this conflict what is simply a breaking of constiution and principle of neutrality of state in system of values shared by citizens

5. There is obivious that by many currently in power polititians Poland is led to be roman-catholic driven state.

For me is not funny. But I know that many young people sooner or later will mutiny against such experiments. As stronger right polititians are going to implement their ideas than stronger significant part of Polish society would resist. No civil war is going to be, rather riots, demonstrations and voting in the next elections.

[Drako]

As I said - I'm not a fan of our gov. But oversizing problems cause more harm than good. I come from a small town where people know eachother, also from nearby villages. But still, when our priest tried to comment people's involvement in the church he has been bashed and it has never happened again. Even younger priests were against him. Old ladies see satan in young people in whatever country you live so nothing particular to worry about here.

I agree that there appeared more radical groups (also nazi) than there have ever been but that's just a natural thing as societies seek for balance. While many people became atheists or lost their respect to their nation and country and are leaving abroad cos "this land sucks" others seeing this turn to extreme nationalism and ultracatholicism. Things are more complicated than it might seem. We are still during the process of transformation from communist state to full democracy with capitalism and it is not easy.

[Kaapeli]

Unless of course, he is a religious fundamentalist of the post-modern secularist (i.e. Liberal) faith. Then, it's open season on everyone else's beliefs.:roll:

Now there's a significant difference. Liberals don't want to force everyone to live by his taboos and beliefs like fundamentalists do. A liberal is ok with a fundie not aborting his baby, not using contraception, not watching ****, going to church and doing whatever his personal beliefs require. A fundie is not ok with liberals doing these things and many other "sins" because they want to force their belief system on everyone else too.
A liberal can just change the channel if he doens't want to watch the SexTV, a fundie wants to remove to channel competely so no one can watch it.

[Bert]

Wrong.
Have you read the First Amendment to your constitution? That's secularism. In case you thought it was something else.

And by the way, the founding fathers were predominantly deist christians and would most certainly be labelled heretics by today's bible thumpers.

[Hollis]

Drako reading your reply on the PC correct cities, I thought you lived in Kalifornia........

I am in a rural area and rural people are more "conservative". Our large cities have a very strong PC dominated political environment. Buch of Dumbyachs(SP)

[Asheren]

We don't have soo much PC there was a wave after commie regime stoped to exist when various groups previously discriminated started to fight for their rights. We had until recent times something that i would call a form of balance. Everyone agreed that there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed.

[Plastic_Yank]

It was recently in our news got no time to search for article besides i don't think you know Polish. Besides our current government made two law act that send government money for building church and to finance teaching of teology. Both of those law act are aginst our constitution.Hmm, I wouldn't know about that. However, I do know that they happen to be a part of your culture, tradition and history, and thus should be given "acceptance" lest "intolerance" fall upon the land, don't you agree? ;-)


For me is not funny. But I know that many young people sooner or later will mutiny against such experiments.And likely as not regret it as they get older.

Like I said, demographics will out, in all probability.


Now there's a significant difference. Liberals don't want to force everyone to live by his taboos and beliefs like fundamentalists do.You're wrong in a couple of ways here, first in presuming that Liberals never employ force (they do) and then in believing that "fundamentalism" as a term only applies to traditional religious groups (as opposed to, say, hard-core Darwinians).


A liberal is ok with a fundie not aborting his baby, not using contraception, not watching ****, going to church and doing whatever his personal beliefs require. A fundie is not ok with liberals doing these things and many other "sins" because they want to force their belief system on everyone else too.

A liberal can just change the channel if he doens't want to watch the SexTV, a fundie wants to remove to channel competely so no one can watch it.The thing is, in the case of abortion and ****ography, these things were illegal by long-standing laws against murder and obscenity. There was never any democratic consensus to change those laws, they were simply rewritten by the courts at the behest of Liberal activist groups, thereby breaking the law (in Canada, at least).

So you see, a Liberal is very much "not okay" with things that go against his belief system.


Have you read the First Amendment to your constitution? That's secularism. In case you thought it was something else.Umm, no, it's not. It's division of Church and State (give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, etc), intended to prevent the State from dominating the Church, rather than the other way around as everyone seems to think nowadays. You have to remember, these were the descendants of the Puritans we're talking about.

Oh, and by the way, it's not my Constitution. I'm from Canuckistan. ;-)


And by the way, the founding fathers were predominantly deist christians and would most certainly be labelled heretics by today's bible thumpers.And so would I, in all likelyhood. Your point was?

[perdurabo]

i'm sad Herrmanek stopped posting and reading mp.net :(

[Herrmannek]

And good... Why my country have to learn use of comercial means of anticonception, its against national buisnes(promoting negative growth rate with is bad), if producers of those things want to earn dimes on condoms and **** theyshould educate people from their own money not from mine and not in schools.. hough...

P.S. someone called? :)

[striker]

P.S. someone called? :)

Herrmannek is back
Czesc, jak zdrowia?

[Herrmannek]

me back :) but not for long i hope... hollidays started and I can relax a little now

[perdurabo]

And good... Why my country have to learn use of comercial means of anticonception, its against national buisnes(promoting negative growth rate with is bad), if producers of those things want to earn dimes on condoms and **** theyshould educate people from their own money not from mine and not in schools.. hough...

P.S. someone called? :)
why should we teach abour anticonception at all? this should be parrents role!
welcome back we've missed you monkey