New and Improved 20mm Sniper Rifle

[Geezah]

June 19, 2006: A South African firm (Denel) has introduced an upgraded version of its 20mm sniper rifle. This weapon is intended mainly for destroying equipment at long ranges. The latest version of the NTW 20 can be quickly equipped with either a 20mm barrel (producing a 59 pound weapon) or 14.5mm (a Russian caliber, producing a 64 pound weapon.) The rifle uses a three round magazine. The 20mm projectile weighs four ounces, and moves at 2,200 feet per second. The 2.25 ounce 14.5mm bullet moves at 3.400 feet per second. That's why the 14.5mm barrel is heavier. Moreover, the operational range of the 14.5mm round is 1,800 meters, while for the 20mm it's only 1,300 meters. In the hands of an expert shooter, both rounds can hit targets over 50 percent farther. The only 14.5mm ammo available is armor-piercing incendiary. The 20mm has that, plus a high explosive round.

There are only two other 20mm sniper rifles available; the Hungarian APH RK20, and the Croat RT20. All of these 20mm rifles were developed from similar World War II weapons, used for anti-tank work. But those weapons weighed 200 pounds and up. The modern 20mm rifles benefit from advances in recoil suppression technology. You don't risk a broken shoulder firing the NTE 20. It's also not as difficult as it appears to transport. The NTW 20 breaks down into two 33 pound loads. Thus a two or three man sniper team can handle it.

For the budget minded, there's a single shot 20mm weapon (from Anzio Ironworks) that weighs only 39 pounds and costs only $6,800. But you've got to make that first shot count with this weapon.

Users of 20mm sniper rufles include commandos, police and peacekeepers. That's because these weapons are able to disable vehicles or weapons at a distance, and with minimal collateral damage. In Africa, for example, warlords like to equip their gunmen with heavy machine-guns mounted on the backs of pickup trucks. You want to take these down from a distance and, since these trucks are often parked in the midst of civilians, you want to do it without large explosions.

Link (http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20060619.aspx)

...................

[Hollis]

wow......... a new rifle to shoot rabbits with..

[oldsoak]

the Denel 20mm is based on a WWII German 20mm round - used in Mg151 IIRC- .
theres a web site run by Tony Williams which can confirm/deny this. Low velocity, lower recoil and a handy HE round. Theres at least two places where the combination might be welcome.....

[CPLHUNTER]

anyone have some pics? i'm at work so the sites that would have the pics are blocked..

[Geezah]

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/NTW20mm.jpg

[ed316]

Isn't Barrrett making a 25mm one?

[CPLHUNTER]

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/NTW20mm.jpg

broken link

[Geezah]

^ Looks fine to me?

[CPLHUNTER]

^ Looks fine to me?

If it's a link to a image on a site that is blocked...

[Hollis]

When I was in High School Chemistry, we took a field trip to the LA police Crime lab. There was a confiscated 20MM german anti-tank rifle on the wall. It was not illegal to own or shoot, But in a National Park the original owner did not realize it was illegal to shoot tracers.

Awesome looking rifle. I prefered the AT rifle I was TOed on, the Ontos with 6 106MM recoiless rifles.

[Geezah]

Oh.......hang on a mo then.

[GazB]

Not exactly a sniper weapon... more a specialised anti material rifle. At 1,300m it would make more sense to fire a 300 magnum round or a 338 Laupa magnum cartridge than a 20mm for use against individual humans. However if the target is a radar antenna, or a ballistic missile, or SAM, or a fuel depot or something then a 20mm HE round would be very effective. Against armour the API of the 14.5mm round would be quite useful, though a SLAP type round would be better than the standard API. Of course fire is a better killer than any bullet ( a single match could burn down an entire house or even city block if there is no functioning fire fighter service... a bullet will just make a hole.)
There are plenty of different types of ammo available for the 14.5mm round which is still in use in heavy machineguns in lots of former eastern block countries.

[Michael RVR]

Isn't Barrrett making a 25mm one?

I remember reading that they couldn't get the recoil down to a managable level.

[ClydeFrog]

Out of curiosity: Which German WWII are you, Hollis, and the text referring to? I only know the ammo was used in the MG151 and various AA guns, but the only german Antitank rifles i know of are in 7.9mm.

[Lazarou]

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7594/208002hi.jpg

Truvelo SR 20, also from South Africa

[spectre17]

Ive been quite keen on Barrett's Idea, i have heard similar things about the re-coil problem, but they are working on it, military's have not discounted the idea of having a 4 man team with the firepower of a bushmaster cannon. I think these sorts of weapons will take precedence in modern warfare soon.

[AlexNenadic]

military's have not discounted the idea of having a 4 man team with the firepower of a bushmaster cannon.

Firepower of a M242 Bushmaster cannon? Not even close, just look at the size of this cartridge compared to Barrett's:

http://www.wapahani.com/25mm_lineup.jpg

vs.

http://www.f5.dion.ne.jp/~mirage/hypams02/xm307.gif

[Hollis]

Out of curiosity: Which German WWII are you, Hollis, and the text referring to? I only know the ammo was used in the MG151 and various AA guns, but the only german Antitank rifles i know of are in 7.9mm.

I could have been wrong about country of Origin, I just remember the gun and the story that went with it, this was close to 40 years ago. I did not know at the time that is was legal to own such a monster.

[Hollis]

Ive been quite keen on Barrett's Idea, i have heard similar things about the re-coil problem, but they are working on it, military's have not discounted the idea of having a 4 man team with the firepower of a bushmaster cannon. I think these sorts of weapons will take precedence in modern warfare soon.

My understanding the problems with such a rifle is weight, amount of ammo that can be carried and signature when fired. I wonder how they would be deployed, on a Humvee, vehicle supported, weapons company level, or ?

[Jippo]

I could have been wrong about country of Origin, I just remember the gun and the story that went with it, this was close to 40 years ago. I did not know at the time that is was legal to own such a monster.

Could be Finnish Lahti, dozens of those have been sold to U.S.


-jippo

[D.E. Watters]

Out of curiosity: Which German WWII are you, Hollis, and the text referring to? I only know the ammo was used in the MG151 and various AA guns, but the only german Antitank rifles i know of are in 7.9mm.

Solothurn A18/100 - 20x105mm
Solothurn A18/1000 (Rheinmetall Panzerbuchse 41) - 20x138mm

[Durandal]

Wow...2 33lbs loads.

That's a lot of gear weight to lug around.

[Vandervahn]

Out of curiosity: Which German WWII are you, Hollis, and the text referring to? I only know the ammo was used in the MG151 and various AA guns, but the only german Antitank rifles i know of are in 7.9mm.
The german Solothurn S18 rifle had a caliber of 20mm.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7293/d20solothurns18100014en.jpg

Edit: impossible, someone beat me by 3 minutes after the thread laid dormant for hours... :|

[Lazarou]

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3037/l18wn.jpg

[Tony Williams]

This article on anti-tank rifles of up to 24mm provides data and photos of all of the rounds used up to WW2: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ATRart.htm

The 20x82 cartridge used by the Denel and Truvelo guns (which does indeed come from the WW2 Mauser MG 151 aircraft cannon - that gun is still in production in South Africa as the GA-1) is much smaller and less powerful than the 20x138B used in the Solothurn S18-1000 and Lahti L35.

The other modern 20mm rifles use more powerful ammo: the Croatian RT-20 is based around the WW2 Hispano 20x110 cartridge, and the Helenius on the Russian 20x99R ShVAK, also a WW2 aircraft gun round.

All of these rounds are illustrated in the Ammo Photo Gallery on my site, with data on them in the Ammo Data Tables.

For the current 25mm grenade weapons being developed in the USA two different cartridges have been develolped: the 'high velocity' (only by grenade standards - about 1,400 fps) one is used in both the XM307 machine gun (ACSW) and the XM109 Barrett Payload Rifle, and a 'low velocity' one for the XM25 shoulder-fired self-loading gun which was a spin-off from the aborted OICW project.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[spectre17]

Sorry dont know where i got bushmaster from , but still maybe not for sniper teams because of the weight , however vehicle/static/long term OP mounted mounted it could be a wise purchase

[@ndrew]

Firepower of a M242 Bushmaster cannon? Not even close, just look at the size of this cartridge compared to Barrett's:

http://www.wapahani.com/25mm_lineup.jpg

vs.

http://www.f5.dion.ne.jp/~mirage/hypams02/xm307.gif

dear lord those rounds scare me lol