the Australian dynamic

[mocking_loudly_died]

Populist anti-Americanism in the Australian dynamic

Recently there has been more populist political talk by the Labor party to withdraw the token amount of Australian military personal from Iraq. The Labor party led by a disgruntled Mark Latham (who has an extraordinary disdain for Americans) has declared that he would pull out all Australian personal from Iraq if elected. What purpose could this possibly serve except declare ourselves a fair weather friend in relation to our alliances with the USA.

People often declare that the war in Iraq was morally wrong and that Australia shouldn’t have been involved, these individuals seem to have little concept of the broader picture. We are a fairly isolated nation in a region that perceives us as arrogant westerners. The rewards for going to Iraq / Afghanistan or any where else the Americans desire out ways any consequences – apart from the obvious military support we as a nation have cashed in big time with a free trade agreement.

This isn’t a moral issue, it’s a logical issue – some one should tell Mark Latham “don’t bite the hand that feeds you”.

Another lovely rant – discuss or dismiss

[James]

In my opinion, those who are protesting the war now are wasting their time. It is a fait accompli. It is done, and it isn't going to be undone, and that's a fact that these people need to deal with. I think that continuing to argue about wether going to war against Iraq was justified is now pointless.

Why does Mark Latham want to withdraw your troops from Iraq? What would that accomplish?

Please advise.

[mocking_loudly_died]

In my opinion, those who are protesting the war now are wasting their time. It is a fait accompli. It is done, and it isn't going to be undone, and that's a fact that these people need to deal with. I think that continuing to argue about wether going to war against Iraq was justified is now pointless.

Why does Mark Latham want to withdraw your troops from Iraq? What would that accomplish?

Please advise.

Well this has come about due to the Spanish train bombing; it certainly in my opinion is saying terrorism works. If we falter now it will surely open the floodgates for any group to use terror as a means to change a government’s foreign policy.

[James]

Wow.

I was actually thinking of the Spanish train bombing when I wrote my earlier post.

That's too bad.

I'va also had thoughts about how the troops on the ground might feel about this. Granted, they would probably like to come home, but I (speaking as an Aemrican, mind you) would certainly be upset if I'd fought in Iraq last year and up to this very day, losing any number of friends and doing a fair number of unpleasant things myself, only to have my government say,

"Thanks, but not any more. We're pulling you out."

I feel that we owe it to our dead an maimed veterans to make something good in Iraq. They fought there, and pulling out prematurely is, (again, IMHO) a real slap in the face to them.

[mocking_loudly_died]

I think my last statement sounded overly dramatic. ;)
Personally I'm atad confused about the Iraq war myself in terms of it's actual point (considering the lack of WMD) but that issue should be clearly separated from our practical reasons to go to war.

We made a small contribution (comparatively to USA / UK) and the rewards are speaking for themselves, now people may turn around now and say that we have increased the terror threat to Australia - that’s completely rubbish, the extremist terror groups have been after us since our humanitarian intervention in East Timor.

Ohh, this is a topic that boils the blood. :D

[ShotOver]

Yeah, Latham will pull them out "By Christmas" So yer, that guy is a ****head anyway. Anyone who publicly insults the prime minister, and his cabinet is nothing but a ****head.

[Lone Predator]

Anyone who publicly insults the prime minister, and his cabinet is nothing but a ****head.


Is that not his job as the leader of the opposition? I mean, I would be suspicious if the opposition just said 'meh... he seems like a decent fellow and I wish him well'.

That's not exactly a way to sway votes to your cause.

[ShotOver]

Calling the PM an "Arselicker" is very unprofessional...

[Lone Predator]

Hey, backbenchers in Canada have called Bush a moron. Ain't no thang. It's their job to either rally people to their cause, or piss, the ones who can't be 'turned', off. Granted they dealt with punishment. But still... it may not be proffessional but it helps rally people to their cause.

[ShotOver]

Yeah, but to use profanity is'nt the way to go.

Labour is the commoners party anyway in Australia, so i guess he has to aim for his voters.

[Kilgor]

I also have some involvment with the electronic music / Dj scene.

Lots and lots of young (under 25's) have a very strong anti american anti israeli viewpoint.

[Lone Predator]

I've never known an aussie to shy away from some good ol' profanity ;)

[ShotOver]

hahahaha, but when you are the leader of a Political Party, and maybe the next Prime minister of the great nation of Australia, it shouldnt be used.

[Lone Predator]

If anything its all the more reason to. lol!

No, I'm joking of course, he may have gone too far. The guy is free to speak his mind at the end of the day though. And if most people happen to agree with him, then, well he could well end up your next PM.

[ShotOver]

Yeah, i hope he wont.

The whole thing about him wanting to Apolagize to the "Stolen Generation" kinda turns me away from voting for him.

[Lone Predator]

Stolen Generation? Sorry, but I'm honestly not familiar with his politics or some Aussie termonology.

[ShotOver]

Well, basically.

Back in the 20's and 30's we had an attempt to take the halfcast children (Aboriginal children of an Aboriginal mother, and a white father) and put them in schools, to teach them how to act in a civilized society, and give them a chance at a propper life, in the new Australia.

But now the Aboriginals are calling them "The Stolen Generation" and there is pressure on the government to apologize to the people who were taken away from their mothers.

It seems pretty silly, since alot of them are docotors, laywers and other high class professions, only because we took them from their Aborignal mothers, if they had stayed, they would of been brought up in the way of the Aboriginal, and at the moment, be unemployed, 8 kids, broken down house, poor..etc.

Not somthing to really apolagize about, since we gave them a chance at normal life, and helped them.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Did they not have fight once when the cabinet was in session I think it was in the 80's, Australians usaully call a spade a spade anyway. :)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Yeah, i hope he wont.

The whole thing about him wanting to Apolagize to the "Stolen Generation" kinda turns me away from voting for him.
Well its their land so you got to cut them a bit of slack.

[cut]

Labour is the commoners party anyway in Australia.

So you get a lot of gentry in Oz do you? ;)

[Caribou Kid]

Jackboot Johnnie is a crawler, plain and simple. The Kiwi protestors hit the nail fair and square on the head when they scrawled "John Howard US Boot Licker" on the hull of one of our warships in port the other day. (Yeah yeah, I know it wasn't exactly painting the Opera House, but it sent a pretty strong message nonetheless, wouldn't you say?)
This is not to say I am not in support of our strong pro-American stance, however. Far from it. But John Howard misled us on the Children Overboard scandal (Peter Reith fell on his sword and took one for the team, If you recall) and he is misleading the nation now.

Not only do our nearest and dearest friends in the neighborhood think we are a self-propelled proctololgy scope for George W., but the REST of the kids on the block (The belligerent muslim ones to the north) are probably even LESS impressed than our trans-tasman cousins. ("Belligerant" being the favoured catch-phrase of our old buddy,ex-Malaysian PM Dr. Mahatir, for the land Down Under, if I recall correctly.)
No offence intended to our islamic community bretheren, okay? ;)
Whilst fully aware of the new shift in Asia-Pacific dynamics,they are simply much less vocal about it.

But this is a Post September 11th world, and the old rules are no longer valid.

Think about it for a sec.

Where else in the South Asian region is there a more friendly, pro-western bastion than Oz?

Pakistan, despite being awarded "Almost-good-enough-to-join-NATO" status, is about as stable as an egg balanced on a jackhammer. (Can YOU say "propped up puppet dictator?")
Thailand is okay, but has strong overtones of the Vietnam era. Bad juju.
Indonesia....Hmmm Two words, mate. Itarak Militia. "nuff said.
Singapore....Maybe if it doubled in size, it'd be a more viable solution, but until then, they don't get to be in the starting lineup at kickoff.
New Zealand, bless their cotton socks, still have that niggling problem with isotopes that keeps them outta the clubhouse. More's the pity. {Brownie points for Peter Jackson, though! :)}
Papua New Guinea is too much of a hot potato to handle, so it also gets allocated to the circular filing system.(file 13; ask your orderly room chief clerk.)

Which basically leaves us.
Us, and our vast, magnificent continent.
Lotsa room for landing strips, supply/fuel depots, barracks and deep water ports (facing Pearl harbour, don't forget!)
Plus we speak English and have a proven track record from WWII of being a stable base-of-operations.

Now if the Yanks still had Clark and Subic...That'd be another kettle of fish entirely. Methinks we (Australia) would not be so much a "flavour of the month" if there were more options available within the region, frankly.

Given these points, why wouldn't we be aligned to the United States?
Mark Latham, despite having his supporters interests at heart, is alienating himself and our nation from our best hope of prevailing and prospering.

[Ballistic]

Mark Latham is purely and simply an idiot. He is a danger to the close alliance with the US and also a danger to the strength Australia has shown in the last few years with regards to terrorism. Australia has always been a target and more so as Mocking said since our intervention in East Timor and also our contribution to operations in Afghanistan. All of a sudden people are proclaiming we are more of a target for terrorists now then ever before because of our involvement in Iraq, all I have to say to that is "pffft, get a clue".

Here's to hoping Prime Minister John Howard gets back in. I wish the Liberals would start really fighting back against Labor.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

Where in hell have all the world's conservatives gone??? They're truly a dying breed, but isn't it funny how most of the nation's conservative minority is what runs the country and makes it great.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Where in hell have all the world's conservatives gone??? They're truly a dying breed, but isn't it funny how most of the nation's conservative minority is what runs the country and makes it great.
Huh......do you mean conservative in attitude and morals or do you mean right wing.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

I little bit of both I guess, but mostly just right wing and when I say this I strictly mean the western democracies.